From 0e329712369a5128fce6425f28398257c45c36df Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Chris Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2022 18:39:39 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 01/13] update transcript for 4_2 --- episodes/4_2.srt | 2074 ++++++++++++++++++++++++---------------------- 1 file changed, 1079 insertions(+), 995 deletions(-) diff --git a/episodes/4_2.srt b/episodes/4_2.srt index f6314be..c761692 100644 --- a/episodes/4_2.srt +++ b/episodes/4_2.srt @@ -1,4180 +1,4264 @@ 1 -00:00:05,203 --> 00:00:09,223 -Bekah: Hello, and welcome to -season four, episode two of the +00:00:05,203 --> 00:00:07,213 +Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Hello, and +welcome to season four, episode 2 +00:00:07,213 --> 00:00:09,223 +two of the + +3 00:00:09,223 --> 00:00:11,342 Virtual Coffee Podcast. I'm Bekah. And this is a podcast -3 +4 00:00:11,342 --> 00:00:13,461 that -4 +5 00:00:13,461 --> 00:00:17,452 features members of the Virtual Coffee community. Virtual Coffee -5 +6 00:00:17,452 --> 00:00:18,876 is an intimate group of developers at all stages of -6 +7 00:00:18,876 --> 00:00:20,300 their -7 +8 00:00:20,301 --> 00:00:23,271 coding journey. And they're here on this podcast, sharing their -8 +9 00:00:23,271 --> 00:00:24,891 stories and what they've learned. And we're here to share -9 +10 00:00:24,891 --> 00:00:26,511 it with -10 +11 00:00:26,512 --> 00:00:29,692 you here with me. Today is my cohost Dan. -11 -00:00:30,754 --> 00:00:34,325 -Dan: Thanks Bekah. Today we're -joined by Todd Libby. Todd is a - 12 +00:00:30,754 --> 00:00:32,539 +Dan Ott: Thanks Bekah. Today +we're joined by Todd Libby. Todd + +13 +00:00:32,539 --> 00:00:34,324 +is a + +14 00:00:34,325 --> 00:00:37,804 web developer designer and accessibility advocate. And he's -13 +15 00:00:37,984 --> 00:00:41,104 been doing it for over 20 years. He's currently an accessibility -14 +16 00:00:41,104 --> 00:00:44,225 engineer at WebstaurantStore. And he's also a member of the -15 +17 00:00:44,225 --> 00:00:46,624 -worldwide web consortium. Also +Worldwide Web Consortium. Also known as W3C, doing work -16 +18 00:00:46,624 --> 00:00:49,023 updating -17 +19 00:00:49,024 --> 00:00:53,104 their web content accessibility guidelines. Todd also hosts a -18 +20 00:00:53,104 --> 00:00:55,804 podcast called the Front End Nerdery, so once you're done -19 +21 00:00:55,804 --> 00:00:58,125 listening to this episode, head over there and give that one a -20 +22 00:00:58,145 --> 00:01:01,445 listen. We had a great time talking with Todd and hearing -21 +23 00:01:01,445 --> 00:01:02,839 about his long journey in tech, how and why he developed a -22 +24 00:01:02,839 --> 00:01:04,233 career -23 +25 00:01:04,234 --> 00:01:07,685 focusing on accessibility and shared with us about what -24 +26 00:01:07,775 --> 00:01:10,685 accessibility means to him and what kinds of things all -25 +27 00:01:10,685 --> 00:01:12,814 developers can do to ensure their work is accessible by -26 +28 00:01:12,814 --> 00:01:14,943 everyone. I -27 +29 00:01:14,944 --> 00:01:15,905 know you're going to enjoy it. -28 +30 00:01:24,066 --> 00:01:26,676 Bekah: We start every episode of the podcast. Like we start every -29 +31 00:01:26,676 --> 00:01:30,605 Virtual Coffee. We introduce ourselves with our name, where -30 +32 00:01:30,605 --> 00:01:32,700 we're from, what we do and a random check-in question. -31 +33 00:01:32,700 --> 00:01:34,795 Today's -32 +34 00:01:34,816 --> 00:01:40,215 question is what famous artist, dead or alive, or you want to -33 +35 00:01:40,215 --> 00:01:45,813 paint your portrait. We hope you enjoy this episode. name is -34 +36 00:01:45,813 --> 00:01:49,575 Bekah. I am a front end developer from a small town in -35 +37 00:01:49,575 --> 00:01:53,337 Ohio, and if -36 +38 00:01:53,399 --> 00:01:57,509 I could have one person paint my portrait, I, when I was in -37 +39 00:01:57,599 --> 00:01:59,684 college, Georgia, there was like big Georgia O'Keeffe paintings -38 +40 00:01:59,684 --> 00:02:01,769 or -39 +41 00:02:02,489 --> 00:02:06,478 replicas in the hallways of my department. And I always loved -40 +42 00:02:06,478 --> 00:02:09,143 -them. I know that's not what she -doesn't paint people, but I +them. I know that's not what, +she doesn't paint people, but I -41 +43 00:02:09,143 --> 00:02:11,808 think -42 +44 00:02:11,808 --> 00:02:16,038 it would be cool to see how I would be represented by her. So -43 +45 00:02:16,188 --> 00:02:17,329 I'm going to go with Georgia -O'Keeffe +O'Keeffe. -44 +46 00:02:19,144 --> 00:02:21,573 Dan: Um, hi, I'm Dan I'm a front end developer in Cleveland, -45 +47 00:02:21,573 --> 00:02:24,002 Ohio, -46 +48 00:02:24,093 --> 00:02:27,693 and, um, does it have to be famous person? -47 +49 00:02:27,693 --> 00:02:28,463 Bekah: Did I say famous? -48 +50 00:02:28,463 --> 00:02:29,403 Dan: I, it said famous in the question. -49 +51 00:02:29,433 --> 00:02:30,968 Bekah: I did. but now like just take it out. -50 +52 00:02:31,354 --> 00:02:33,393 Dan: I mean, uh, Kate, one of my good friends at Kate Brideau -51 +53 00:02:33,393 --> 00:02:35,432 from -52 +54 00:02:35,433 --> 00:02:39,033 college, um, I would say that would be the person. Um, that'd -53 +55 00:02:39,033 --> 00:02:42,213 be famous. I don't, I don't really know a lot of famous -54 -00:02:42,943 --> 00:02:44,303 -names. I mean, except for like -the really famous ones, you +56 +00:02:42,943 --> 00:02:43,623 +painter names. I mean, except +for like the really famous ones, -55 +57 +00:02:43,623 --> 00:02:44,303 +you + +58 00:02:44,303 --> 00:02:45,663 know, -56 +59 00:02:45,693 --> 00:02:50,503 and that seems like a boring answer. Um, maybe have Raphael, -57 +60 00:02:50,524 --> 00:02:52,743 -but not the, not the artist that +but not the, not the artist the ninja turtle. -58 +61 00:02:53,614 --> 00:02:54,204 -Bekah: Or my +Bekah: Or my son -59 +62 00:02:55,324 --> 00:02:58,644 Dan: Yeah. Well it's well, sure. There's there's that too. Yeah. -60 -00:02:58,683 --> 00:03:00,443 +63 +00:02:58,683 --> 00:02:59,563 Any Raphael really? I'll take, -uh, take any version. Sounds +uh, take any version. Bekah: -61 +64 +00:02:59,563 --> 00:03:00,443 +Sounds + +65 00:03:00,443 --> 00:03:02,203 like -62 +66 00:03:02,204 --> 00:03:02,743 a good choice. -63 +67 00:03:05,588 --> 00:03:09,818 -Todd: And I'm Todd Libby. I am a -front end developer and +Todd Libby: And I'm Todd Libby. +I am a front end developer and -64 +68 00:03:09,818 --> 00:03:15,968 accessibility engineer currently in Phoenix, Arizona. And I guess -65 +69 00:03:16,959 --> 00:03:25,429 my artist would be, I dunno, he was really unique. So I guess I -66 +70 00:03:25,429 --> 00:03:27,868 would say Salvador Dali. -67 +71 00:03:28,899 --> 00:03:29,519 Bekah: That's cool. -68 +72 00:03:29,718 --> 00:03:30,258 Dan: That'd be a good one. -69 +73 00:03:31,449 --> 00:03:32,853 Bekah: There's um, anytime somebody is from Phoenix, I -70 +74 00:03:32,853 --> 00:03:34,257 think -71 +75 00:03:34,258 --> 00:03:36,268 of a short story that I read -from Sherman Alexie. This is +from Sherman Alexie. "This Is -72 +76 00:03:36,268 --> 00:03:38,278 -what it +What It -73 +77 00:03:38,278 --> 00:03:41,998 -means to say Phoenix, Arizona. +Means To Say Phoenix, Arizona." And I remember nothing about the -74 +78 00:03:41,998 --> 00:03:43,618 short story except for the title. And it's just -75 +79 00:03:43,618 --> 00:03:45,238 automatically, -76 -00:03:45,239 --> 00:03:49,679 -that's my mind. So if you -haven't, read it, check it out +80 +00:03:45,239 --> 00:03:47,459 +that what comes into my mind. So +if you haven't, read it, check -77 +81 +00:03:47,459 --> 00:03:49,679 +it out + +82 00:03:49,679 --> 00:03:51,179 and then remind me what it was about. -78 +83 00:03:51,609 --> 00:03:55,028 Todd: I haven't, but I will look that up. Definitely. I'm -79 +84 00:03:55,028 --> 00:03:58,688 originally from Portland Maine. So of course everybody knows me -80 +85 00:03:58,688 --> 00:04:00,549 because of the lobster roll thing. So. -81 +86 00:04:01,554 --> 00:04:05,514 Bekah: Yes, Todd is all about the lobsters and in our Virtual -82 +87 00:04:05,514 --> 00:04:10,883 Coffee Slack, he always uses the lobster emoji to respond to -83 +88 00:04:10,883 --> 00:04:12,608 people. And so we just automatically recognize that -84 +89 00:04:12,608 --> 00:04:14,333 it's -85 +90 00:04:14,334 --> 00:04:18,444 Todd. So it's like he, he has claimed that emoji and it's one -86 +91 00:04:18,444 --> 00:04:19,553 of the greatest things ever. -87 +92 00:04:20,303 --> 00:04:22,803 Dan: It's really cool. And it's just like, you see the lobster -88 +93 00:04:22,803 --> 00:04:24,394 emoji pop up. You're like, oh, cool. Todd's here. -89 +94 00:04:26,093 --> 00:04:28,255 -Bekah: I just think it's it's +Bekah: I just think it's-it's funny, like when, when new -90 +95 00:04:28,255 --> 00:04:30,417 people -91 +96 00:04:30,418 --> 00:04:33,538 come into Virtual Coffee and then they also click the lobster -92 +97 00:04:33,538 --> 00:04:34,069 emoji. So. -93 +98 00:04:34,069 --> 00:04:36,749 Dan: I mean I always click it. I mean, I don't first, you know -94 +99 00:04:36,749 --> 00:04:37,963 what I mean? But like, um, it's, -it's like high five and Todd, +it's like high fiving Todd, -95 +100 00:04:37,963 --> 00:04:39,177 you -96 +101 00:04:39,178 --> 00:04:43,559 know, it's like celebrating the Toddness of it. -97 +102 00:04:44,363 --> 00:04:46,343 -Todd: the virtual virtual high +Todd: the virtual-virtual high five, -98 +103 00:04:46,798 --> 00:04:47,459 Dan: That's right. -99 +104 00:04:47,848 --> 00:04:48,983 Bekah: Right. And it can be about all sorts of different -100 +105 00:04:48,983 --> 00:04:50,118 things. -101 +106 00:04:50,119 --> 00:04:51,874 Like somebody could post a question that they have, and -102 +107 00:04:51,874 --> 00:04:53,629 then -103 +108 00:04:53,629 --> 00:04:56,869 like, there's a lobster emoji. It's not about lobster. Although -104 +109 00:04:56,959 --> 00:04:59,059 if I had a question about lobster, I would definitely ask -105 +110 00:04:59,059 --> 00:04:59,658 Todd first. -106 +111 00:05:02,963 --> 00:05:04,494 Todd: I've got a million no one answers. -107 +112 00:05:05,838 --> 00:05:08,048 Bekah: I feel like that's a separate podcast episode. -108 +113 00:05:08,048 --> 00:05:08,168 Todd: Yes. -109 +114 00:05:08,209 --> 00:05:09,189 Dan: Does it have to be though? -110 +115 00:05:09,548 --> 00:05:13,968 Bekah: Thank you so much for being here with us. Todd, we -111 +116 00:05:14,358 --> 00:05:18,559 always like to start with the origin story. How did you get to -112 +117 00:05:18,588 --> 00:05:20,403 where you are today? So if you. want to take us through that -113 +118 00:05:20,403 --> 00:05:22,218 path -114 +119 00:05:22,309 --> 00:05:22,488 -would be. +would be awesome. -115 +120 00:05:23,423 --> 00:05:27,173 Todd: Yeah. Oh boy. That's a long one. Um, I'll give you the -116 +121 00:05:27,173 --> 00:05:32,824 abridged version. I'm nine years old. I started on a Commodore -117 +122 00:05:32,824 --> 00:05:38,463 PET. Um, in school and then gradually worked my way up to a -118 -00:05:38,463 --> 00:05:43,233 +123 +00:05:38,463 --> 00:05:40,848 Commodore 64, where I learned -BASIC a lot of different flavors +BASIC, a lot of different -119 +124 +00:05:40,848 --> 00:05:43,233 +flavors + +125 00:05:43,233 --> 00:05:50,343 of BASIC, um, and was just, you know, it was just a hobby of -120 +126 00:05:50,343 --> 00:05:55,803 course at that point. But, um, what was it about 1999? Um, I -121 +127 00:05:55,803 --> 00:06:01,263 had -122 +128 00:06:01,264 --> 00:06:09,139 a. What was it? A 386 desktop, IBM computer. And I started to -123 +129 00:06:09,139 --> 00:06:12,153 learn HTML and this was before CSS. So that is the indication -124 +130 00:06:12,153 --> 00:06:15,167 of -125 +131 00:06:15,168 --> 00:06:23,178 how old I am and JavaScript was just kicking around. Um, I -126 +132 00:06:23,178 --> 00:06:25,323 started learning how to design websites using Front Page -127 +133 00:06:25,323 --> 00:06:27,468 Express -128 +134 00:06:27,499 --> 00:06:35,103 in Internet Explorer, three and four. And just, it went from -129 +135 00:06:35,103 --> 00:06:44,733 there. Um, programming was cool. I used to do, um, in BASIC on a -130 +136 00:06:44,733 --> 00:06:49,564 Commodore I would program. If -anybody remembers those, choose +anybody remembers those, "Choose -131 -00:06:49,564 --> 00:06:52,009 -your own adventure books from +137 +00:06:49,564 --> 00:06:50,786 +Your Own Adventure" books from way back in the day. I, I used -132 +138 +00:06:50,786 --> 00:06:52,008 +Dan: Oh yeah. + +139 00:06:52,009 --> 00:06:54,454 -to +Todd: to -133 +140 00:06:54,454 --> 00:07:01,863 program a text-based, uh, Pretty much copied and I hope no one's -134 -00:07:01,863 --> 00:07:04,938 +141 +00:07:01,863 --> 00:07:03,400 listening from that company, -but, um, I, I used to, just to +[laughter] but, um, I, I used -135 +142 +00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:04,937 +to, just to + +143 00:07:04,938 --> 00:07:08,013 just -136 +144 00:07:08,014 --> 00:07:13,399 practice, I would just. Code those books into a, into a -137 +145 00:07:13,399 --> 00:07:18,468 text-based game on Commodore 64. And that's really what got me -138 +146 00:07:18,468 --> 00:07:22,249 started because I was living in a very rural area in, in New -139 +147 00:07:22,249 --> 00:07:28,009 England. And, uh, there wasn't much to do so except for -140 +148 00:07:28,038 --> 00:07:34,488 programming at that point. So skip ahead to today, or when I -141 +149 00:07:34,488 --> 00:07:40,548 started professionally and I was 22 years ago. And I started, um, -142 +150 00:07:41,538 --> 00:07:44,689 -I read Jeffrey Zeldman his book, -Designing with Web Standards +I read Jeffrey Zeldman's book, +"Designing with Web Standards" -143 +151 00:07:45,168 --> 00:07:49,788 instantly got hooked into web standards, uh, progressive -144 +152 00:07:49,788 --> 00:07:52,038 enhancement accessibility. And it just, you know, took off to -145 +153 00:07:52,038 --> 00:07:54,288 the -146 +154 00:07:54,288 --> 00:07:59,449 point where it is today, where I'm in the field that I enjoy -147 +155 00:07:59,478 --> 00:08:01,478 being in, and that's accessibility. -148 +156 00:08:04,269 --> 00:08:07,298 Dan: I think that's awesome. I, and I, I love that book too. And -149 -00:08:08,499 --> 00:08:14,829 -Zeldman I have been, um, so 22 -years ago what, 99, 2000 +157 +00:08:08,499 --> 00:08:11,664 +Jeffery Zeldman I have been, um, +so 22 years ago is what, 99, -150 +158 +00:08:11,664 --> 00:08:14,829 +2000 + +159 00:08:14,829 --> 00:08:19,478 something like that, know? And I think I got into, I mean, I was -151 +160 00:08:19,478 --> 00:08:21,748 starting to make something around then and really. Got a -152 +161 00:08:21,748 --> 00:08:24,018 lot more -153 +162 00:08:24,019 --> 00:08:27,588 into it a couple of years later. Um, but was with the web -154 +163 00:08:27,588 --> 00:08:28,713 standards, you know, movement and everything like that. And -155 +164 00:08:28,713 --> 00:08:29,838 I've -156 +165 00:08:29,838 --> 00:08:31,953 been, uh, you know, and similarly front-end focused for -157 +166 00:08:31,953 --> 00:08:34,068 a long -158 +167 00:08:34,068 --> 00:08:35,463 time. And, um, one of us was just one of the reasons I was -159 +168 00:08:35,463 --> 00:08:36,858 very -160 -00:08:36,859 --> 00:08:38,943 -excited to have you podcast and -to kind of get to get to hang +169 +00:08:36,859 --> 00:08:37,901 +excited to have you on this +podcast and to kind of get to -161 +170 +00:08:37,901 --> 00:08:38,943 +get to hang + +171 00:08:38,943 --> 00:08:41,027 out -162 +172 00:08:41,028 --> 00:08:42,288 with a little bit more. Um, -163 +173 00:08:42,318 --> 00:08:42,438 Todd: Yeah. -164 +174 00:08:43,879 --> 00:08:49,428 Dan: It's uh, so, know, on front end and focusing on -165 +175 00:08:49,428 --> 00:08:54,303 accessibility, um, things like that. I mean, what career -166 +176 00:08:54,303 --> 00:08:56,313 opportunities has that like presented you from, you know, -167 +177 00:08:56,313 --> 00:08:59,073 starting, you don't need to like list every single one or -168 +178 00:08:59,073 --> 00:09:01,433 whatever, but like run, run us through a little bit of how -169 -00:09:01,443 --> 00:09:03,888 +179 +00:09:01,443 --> 00:09:02,665 that's been being like, uh, -front end and accessibility, you +front end and especially -170 +180 +00:09:02,665 --> 00:09:03,887 +accessibility, you + +181 00:09:03,888 --> 00:09:06,333 know, -171 +182 00:09:06,364 --> 00:09:08,734 a specialist, um, for whatever that means for you. Uh, you -172 +183 00:09:08,734 --> 00:09:11,104 know, -173 +184 00:09:11,124 --> 00:09:12,163 run it through a little bit, like how that's been finding, -174 +185 00:09:12,163 --> 00:09:13,202 finding -175 +186 00:09:13,744 --> 00:09:14,973 work and finding people that care about that sort of thing. -176 +187 00:09:14,973 --> 00:09:16,202 Um, -177 +188 00:09:16,869 --> 00:09:18,564 Bekah: Can I just jump into, if you can just provide some -178 +189 00:09:18,564 --> 00:09:20,259 context -179 +190 00:09:20,259 --> 00:09:22,764 for what, what does accessibility mean and how does -180 +191 00:09:22,764 --> 00:09:25,269 that work as -181 +192 00:09:25,269 --> 00:09:26,048 part of a job? -182 +193 00:09:27,379 --> 00:09:30,244 Todd: Okay. Um, to address what it's accessibility mean, uh, -183 +194 00:09:30,244 --> 00:09:33,109 I'll -184 +195 00:09:33,109 --> 00:09:38,708 address that first and that is making the web equal and -185 +196 00:09:38,708 --> 00:09:42,634 accessible for everybody. Um, it just doesn't have to be a -186 +197 00:09:42,634 --> 00:09:44,989 disability. It can be, you know, -somebody in I'll use this +somebody in, I'll use this -187 +198 00:09:44,989 --> 00:09:47,344 example -188 +199 00:09:47,673 --> 00:09:50,763 in a very rural area who has a 3g phone. And, you know, it's -189 +200 00:09:50,763 --> 00:09:53,853 not a -190 +201 00:09:53,854 --> 00:09:57,484 very fast connection is to, you know, what we have these days -191 +202 00:09:57,484 --> 00:10:04,714 with our shiny new iPhones and stuff like that. Um, and then -192 +203 00:10:04,714 --> 00:10:10,188 accessibility. Somebody in accessibility would basically, -193 +204 00:10:10,278 --> 00:10:16,038 um, not only advocate, but don't in my daily routine of doing -194 +205 00:10:16,068 --> 00:10:19,353 auditing on websites. It's just checking to see if, uh, Sites -195 +206 00:10:19,353 --> 00:10:22,638 are -196 +207 00:10:22,639 --> 00:10:27,619 accessible if they're, you know, if they should be failing, um, -197 +208 00:10:27,918 --> 00:10:32,239 web content, accessibility guidelines WCAG is how I -198 +209 00:10:32,298 --> 00:10:33,843 pronounce it. There's many different pronunciations to -199 +210 00:10:33,843 --> 00:10:35,388 that, -200 +211 00:10:35,389 --> 00:10:46,489 but, um, um, the, um, you know, and you know, there's different, -201 +212 00:10:46,489 --> 00:10:50,619 I guess. Levels of how people will do an audit. Like, you -202 +213 00:10:50,619 --> 00:10:54,749 know, -203 +214 00:10:55,558 --> 00:10:58,048 -you can do, you know, a and AA +you can do, you know, A and AA as far as the levels. So there's -204 +215 00:10:58,048 --> 00:11:00,538 -a +A -205 +216 00:11:00,568 --> 00:11:06,058 AA and AAA, a lot of people I find don't do AAA, because it's -206 +217 00:11:06,058 --> 00:11:08,593 too stringent and it's also, you don't have to go that far in -207 +218 00:11:08,593 --> 00:11:11,128 most -208 +219 00:11:11,129 --> 00:11:17,224 cases. Um, but. It's just auditing, making sure sites are -209 +220 00:11:17,224 --> 00:11:22,984 accessible in, um, creating a report for a client and then -210 +221 00:11:23,043 --> 00:11:25,098 telling them here's what's wrong. Here's how you need to -211 +222 00:11:25,098 --> 00:11:27,153 fix it. -212 +223 00:11:27,214 --> 00:11:32,553 This doesn't, you know, adhere to the guidelines and, um, -213 +224 00:11:32,583 --> 00:11:37,803 recommendations for best practices as well. And, um, You -214 +225 00:11:37,803 --> 00:11:40,953 know, looking at code and, you know, always looking at HTML and -215 +226 00:11:40,953 --> 00:11:46,594 CSS because CSS too has a strong effect on accessibility and, uh, -216 +227 00:11:47,043 --> 00:11:51,464 that's what the job entails. Um, and Dan, what was your question? -217 +228 00:11:52,369 --> 00:11:53,463 Dan: Alright, I guess my question was, um, you know, -218 +229 00:11:53,463 --> 00:11:54,557 it's, it's a -219 +230 00:11:54,558 --> 00:11:57,568 sort of. I don't know if non-traditional is the right -220 +231 00:11:57,568 --> 00:12:01,019 word, but, you know, being a specialist really in any regard, -221 +232 00:12:01,078 --> 00:12:03,163 um, is, uh, is a choice, you know, and can limit your -222 +233 00:12:03,163 --> 00:12:05,248 options, -223 +234 00:12:05,249 --> 00:12:09,208 but like also what you want to do. Right. Um, and so I, my -224 +235 00:12:09,208 --> 00:12:13,048 question was more like, how has it been, uh, on your career -225 +236 00:12:13,048 --> 00:12:15,568 journey? You know, being a specialist, especially in the -226 +237 00:12:15,568 --> 00:12:16,948 accessibility world, -227 +238 00:12:17,803 --> 00:12:22,543 Todd: Right. Um, it's been a challenge lately in, I would say -228 +239 00:12:22,543 --> 00:12:30,793 the past. Five, maybe 10 years. Um, because not a lot of people, -229 +240 00:12:30,793 --> 00:12:33,464 not a lot of companies were looking for accessibility -230 +241 00:12:33,464 --> 00:12:39,764 specialists. Um, not until I've pretty much noticed this year. A -231 +242 00:12:39,764 --> 00:12:43,333 lot of companies are now looking for accessibility specialists -232 +243 00:12:43,333 --> 00:12:47,668 because companies are getting sued. And they don't want to get -233 +244 00:12:47,668 --> 00:12:53,908 sued. That's that's the bottom line. So my professional journey -234 +245 00:12:53,908 --> 00:13:00,239 had been, I worked, uh, I started, I did a website for -235 +246 00:13:00,239 --> 00:13:07,769 somebody I knew back in, uh, new England, Maine. And, um, it was -236 +247 00:13:07,769 --> 00:13:10,288 -just a small. And then from +just a site. And then from there I got, you know, a few -237 +248 00:13:10,288 --> 00:13:12,807 different -238 +249 00:13:13,019 --> 00:13:16,859 jobs doing websites. And then from there I was like, well, you -239 +250 00:13:16,859 --> 00:13:18,794 know, this thing's taken off. I'm going to do the I'm going to -240 +251 00:13:18,794 --> 00:13:20,729 go -241 +252 00:13:20,739 --> 00:13:26,321 the freelance route. So that's what I did. And. Up until 2015, -242 +253 00:13:26,321 --> 00:13:31,903 I -243 +254 00:13:31,903 --> 00:13:36,644 was a freelance, uh, developer, I guess you could say I got into -244 +255 00:13:36,644 --> 00:13:42,313 WordPress, uh, PHP development. And then, um, I was hired by a -245 +256 00:13:42,313 --> 00:13:51,403 company to do their website and -their SAS, um, their SAS, uh, +their SASS, um, their SASS, uh, -246 +257 00:13:52,663 --> 00:14:01,124 site, I guess. It was a, a thing where you log in and it wasn't a -247 +258 00:14:01,124 --> 00:14:06,583 public facing site. And, um, -from there it would be been +from there it would be-been -248 +259 00:14:06,583 --> 00:14:12,042 about, I -249 +260 00:14:12,043 --> 00:14:14,368 don't know. I think I counted over 2000 resumes that I had -250 +261 00:14:14,368 --> 00:14:16,693 sent -251 +262 00:14:16,693 --> 00:14:23,323 out to companies in 20 years in. One company hired me. And that -252 +263 00:14:23,323 --> 00:14:28,994 was that company that I worked for in 2015 to, uh, just, uh, -253 +264 00:14:29,024 --> 00:14:34,033 last year as a matter of fact. And then finally somebody took a -254 +265 00:14:34,033 --> 00:14:36,823 chance on me that would have been Nobility. I was hired by -255 +266 00:14:36,823 --> 00:14:43,903 Nobility, uh, in March and March or April. Geez, it's been over -256 +267 00:14:43,903 --> 00:14:46,033 six months, but, um, -257 +268 00:14:46,889 --> 00:14:47,818 Dan: What is time anyway. -258 -00:14:48,418 --> 00:14:51,359 +269 +00:14:48,418 --> 00:14:49,888 Todd: well, I don't even know -anymore. I'm in a different time +[laughter] anymore. I'm in a -259 +270 +00:14:49,888 --> 00:14:51,358 +different time + +271 00:14:51,359 --> 00:14:57,928 zone now, so that's messed me up -too. Uh, but no ability gave me +too. Uh, but Nobility gave me -260 +272 00:14:57,928 --> 00:15:02,458 a, you know, an opportunity and very grateful for that -261 +273 00:15:02,458 --> 00:15:09,178 opportunity with them and, um, a lot of great people in Nobility -262 +274 00:15:09,208 --> 00:15:12,238 that work for the company. Um, everybody is a matter of fact -263 +275 00:15:12,238 --> 00:15:15,268 and -264 +276 00:15:15,298 --> 00:15:17,578 they do some really good stuff as far as accessibility goes. -265 +277 00:15:17,578 --> 00:15:19,858 And, -266 +278 00:15:19,918 --> 00:15:24,127 um, as of October 1st, I will be, um, on the, uh, -267 +279 00:15:24,127 --> 00:15:28,336 WebstaurantStore -268 +280 00:15:28,466 --> 00:15:32,677 team as an accessibility engineer. Uh, so I look forward -269 +281 00:15:32,677 --> 00:15:34,366 -to that. Yeah. +to that. Yeah. Dan: honestly -270 +282 00:15:34,866 --> 00:15:37,506 Bekah: Can you talk a little bit about what you'll be doing in -271 +283 00:15:37,506 --> 00:15:39,756 that role there? Maybe dive into -a little bit of detail. +a little bit of details. -272 +284 00:15:41,871 --> 00:15:46,251 Todd: Um, for right now, all I know is it's basically doing the -273 +285 00:15:46,251 --> 00:15:52,192 same thing I do now and that's auditing, um, their product for -274 +286 00:15:52,192 --> 00:16:04,251 their, uh, website. I know they -use, they use react and I think +use, they use React and I think -275 +287 00:16:04,282 --> 00:16:10,042 -it was .net. So that I'll be in +it was .Net. So that I'll be in that, um, environment. -276 +288 00:16:10,782 --> 00:16:13,182 Bekah: So like when you do an audit, where do you start with -277 +289 00:16:13,182 --> 00:16:13,272 that? -278 +290 00:16:14,961 --> 00:16:18,216 Todd: So when I do an audit, I do automated, uh, checks and -279 +291 00:16:18,216 --> 00:16:21,471 scans -280 +292 00:16:21,471 --> 00:16:27,772 first. So I use stuff like the WAVE extension, um, the axe, I -281 +293 00:16:28,131 --> 00:16:32,601 now wait until the end to use the axe-core extension in the -282 +294 00:16:32,601 --> 00:16:40,297 browser. Um, Things like, uh, there's a command line called -283 +295 00:16:40,297 --> 00:16:48,726 Pa11y. So it's PA one, one Y uh, there's that I use, um, does -284 +296 00:16:48,756 --> 00:16:55,057 Bookmarklets from Ian Lloyd and Paul J. Adam that I use to also -285 +297 00:16:55,326 --> 00:17:01,206 do checks. Um, Let's see what else? There's Microsoft -286 +298 00:17:01,236 --> 00:17:07,267 Accessibility Insights, which is a great tool to use. Um, what -287 +299 00:17:07,267 --> 00:17:15,517 else? And I said, axe, color, contrast checks. I use, um, the -288 +300 00:17:15,517 --> 00:17:19,626 Firefox accessibility dev tools, the accessibility panels and -289 +301 00:17:19,626 --> 00:17:22,911 those, and then I move on to, um, manual testing. So. mouse -290 +302 00:17:22,911 --> 00:17:26,196 only, -291 +303 00:17:26,961 --> 00:17:33,112 um, keyboard only I will do it, which goes back to color -292 +304 00:17:33,112 --> 00:17:35,842 contrast. I'll do the squint test. So I'll just look at the -293 +305 00:17:35,842 --> 00:17:39,352 site while I'm squinting at it and see if, you know, I can make -294 +306 00:17:39,352 --> 00:17:45,951 -out anything cause that I was +out anything cause, that I was taught not too long ago. So, um, -295 -00:17:46,551 --> 00:17:52,701 -and uh, screen readers, I will -use screen readers. So for Mac +307 +00:17:46,551 --> 00:17:49,626 +and uh, screen readers, Dan: I +like that Todd: I will use -296 +308 +00:17:49,626 --> 00:17:52,701 +screen readers. So for Mac + +309 00:17:52,701 --> 00:17:58,192 there's Voiceover. And it's best to use Voiceover in Safari -297 +310 00:17:58,221 --> 00:18:01,686 because the native, you know, Mac app and everything, um, and -298 +311 00:18:01,686 --> 00:18:05,151 VDA -299 +312 00:18:05,332 --> 00:18:10,071 and Jaws on a Windows. And, um, if, and it's very, very rare, -300 +313 00:18:10,071 --> 00:18:14,810 but -301 +314 00:18:14,811 --> 00:18:21,067 if somebody says, oh, you know, we have Linux users. So I will -302 -00:18:21,067 --> 00:18:24,456 -test on what it's called Orca -for Linux and, um, yeah, those +315 +00:18:21,067 --> 00:18:22,761 +test on what and it's called +Orca for Linux and, um, yeah, -303 +316 +00:18:22,761 --> 00:18:24,455 +those + +317 00:18:24,456 --> 00:18:27,845 are -304 +318 00:18:27,846 --> 00:18:31,041 pretty much, uh, if I remember them all correctly, um, those -305 +319 00:18:31,041 --> 00:18:34,236 are -306 +320 00:18:34,237 --> 00:18:35,317 -the tools I use. +the tools I use. ha ha. -307 +321 00:18:36,207 --> 00:18:38,366 Dan: That's. Yeah, that's awesome. It's very extensive. I -308 +322 00:18:38,366 --> 00:18:39,926 was just writing all them down so that -309 +323 00:18:39,997 --> 00:18:42,176 Bekah: So as I well, the link to those show notes. -310 +324 00:18:42,471 --> 00:18:44,136 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And so, so like day to day, I mean, I -311 +325 00:18:44,136 --> 00:18:45,801 know -312 +326 00:18:45,801 --> 00:18:47,661 you haven't started yet, but like in your, in your role, will -313 +327 00:18:47,661 --> 00:18:49,521 it be -314 +328 00:18:49,882 --> 00:18:53,541 mostly doing audits after the fact? Or like, will you be -315 +329 00:18:53,541 --> 00:18:54,876 interfacing with, you know, I'm not sure what they do, what -316 +330 00:18:54,876 --> 00:18:56,211 they, -317 +331 00:18:56,241 --> 00:18:59,092 what, what they make or anything like that, but you know, like -318 +332 00:18:59,092 --> 00:19:03,142 where in the process are you, are you, uh, doing like -319 +333 00:19:03,142 --> 00:19:06,336 accessibility? Uh, you know, helping the team with, with this -320 +334 00:19:06,336 --> 00:19:10,446 stuff, like, know, audits for me imply, and I know this isn't -321 +335 00:19:10,446 --> 00:19:13,537 always true, but when I think of it as something, oh, something's -322 -00:19:13,537 --> 00:19:16,807 +336 +00:19:13,537 --> 00:19:15,172 done, now we do an audit on it. -You know what I mean? but I was +You know what I mean? Todd: umm -323 +337 +00:19:15,172 --> 00:19:16,807 +Dan: but I was + +338 00:19:16,807 --> 00:19:18,936 wondering if, and I'm sure that's an important part. I was -324 +339 00:19:18,936 --> 00:19:21,066 wondering if there's, um, places earlier in the process where, -325 +340 00:19:21,066 --> 00:19:23,196 um, -326 +341 00:19:23,886 --> 00:19:28,386 where, you know, you're able to interface and like, you know, -327 +342 00:19:28,866 --> 00:19:31,747 make suggestions before it, you know, as opposed to like fixing -328 +343 00:19:31,747 --> 00:19:34,576 things, but like help build something you know, the first -329 +344 00:19:34,576 --> 00:19:34,666 time. -330 +345 00:19:34,666 --> 00:19:34,997 Todd: Right. Yeah, -331 +346 00:19:35,017 --> 00:19:35,696 Dan: Does that make sense? -332 +347 00:19:36,277 --> 00:19:42,946 Todd: yeah, yeah. Um, I'm, I'm sure it's going to be probably a -333 +348 00:19:42,946 --> 00:19:49,096 lot of both. Um, maybe there's existing things on the site, uh, -334 +349 00:19:49,636 --> 00:19:56,416 that need to be checked, um, components that may be being -335 +350 00:19:56,416 --> 00:20:00,561 worked on. We'll have to be checked. I mean, it's that way, -336 +351 00:20:00,561 --> 00:20:02,646 pretty much with any kind of audit. So I've had companies -337 +352 00:20:02,646 --> 00:20:04,731 come -338 +353 00:20:04,741 --> 00:20:07,946 to me and say, you know, we we've got somebody who emailed -339 +354 00:20:07,946 --> 00:20:11,151 us and -340 +355 00:20:11,152 --> 00:20:13,806 said, this isn't accessible, so we need a, an audit done and -341 +356 00:20:13,806 --> 00:20:16,460 I'll -342 +357 00:20:16,461 --> 00:20:20,287 go through the site and say, okay, I found all this. Here's -343 +358 00:20:20,287 --> 00:20:24,757 what you need to do to fix it. They'll fix it. That'll be after -344 +359 00:20:24,757 --> 00:20:28,146 the fact of course, I've had companies come in and ask me to -345 +360 00:20:28,146 --> 00:20:31,386 do consulting with their teams before the project starts to -346 +361 00:20:31,386 --> 00:20:34,626 make -347 +362 00:20:34,626 --> 00:20:37,567 sure that it gets done beforehand. Because when you do -348 +363 00:20:37,567 --> 00:20:40,836 an accessibility, when you, when you bring in accessibility from -349 +364 00:20:40,836 --> 00:20:45,146 the start of a project, it's so much easier and there's less, a -350 +365 00:20:45,146 --> 00:20:50,416 lot less stress, doing it from the very beginning, because when -351 +366 00:20:50,416 --> 00:20:53,957 you get to the end and you've got, everything is as accessible -352 +367 00:20:53,957 --> 00:20:58,336 as you can. And I'll add that nothing's a hundred percent -353 +368 00:20:58,336 --> 00:21:05,537 accessible. Um, it's, it's a lot easier on your teams. You know, -354 +369 00:21:05,567 --> 00:21:06,812 like I said, there's a lot less stress. You don't have to go -355 +370 00:21:06,812 --> 00:21:08,057 back -356 +371 00:21:08,057 --> 00:21:13,237 and scatter around trying to fix this, that, and the other thing -357 +372 00:21:13,656 --> 00:21:17,826 after the fact. So, um, and that's also where my advocacy -358 +373 00:21:17,826 --> 00:21:22,086 comes in is saying, okay, if you get this done from the start, -359 +374 00:21:22,866 --> 00:21:24,741 you're going to be, it's going to be so much easier and it's -360 +375 00:21:24,741 --> 00:21:26,616 going -361 -00:21:26,616 --> 00:21:28,866 +376 +00:21:26,616 --> 00:21:27,741 to cost less money because -you're not going to. It's going +you're not going back. It's -362 +377 +00:21:27,741 --> 00:21:28,866 +going + +378 00:21:28,866 --> 00:21:31,116 to cause -363 +379 00:21:31,446 --> 00:21:33,426 a lot less stress again. And, uh, those are the two main -364 +380 00:21:33,426 --> 00:21:35,406 things. -365 +381 00:21:35,767 --> 00:21:39,126 Um, but to answer the question, it's going to be a little bit of -366 +382 00:21:39,126 --> 00:21:40,746 both. I would think, because like I said, it's usually that -367 +383 00:21:40,746 --> 00:21:42,366 way at -368 +384 00:21:42,366 --> 00:21:45,906 the beginning, you know? Um, -369 +385 00:21:45,906 --> 00:21:47,346 Dan: Get something to a baseline first. -370 +386 00:21:47,366 --> 00:21:51,807 Todd: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and it's still really early in the -371 +387 00:21:51,807 --> 00:21:54,687 process, so I'm not too sure, but I know that there'll be a -372 +388 00:21:54,687 --> 00:21:57,567 lot of, -373 +389 00:21:57,626 --> 00:22:00,746 you know, checking to make sure everything's good. On the end -374 +390 00:22:00,746 --> 00:22:03,866 of, -375 +391 00:22:04,346 --> 00:22:07,047 you know, before we put this out, we need to make sure it's -376 +392 00:22:07,047 --> 00:22:09,416 accessible. So. yeah. -377 +393 00:22:10,311 --> 00:22:12,051 Bekah: As you've been working through this industry, do you -378 +394 00:22:12,051 --> 00:22:18,307 think. Is there one problem that you keep encountering over and -379 +395 00:22:18,307 --> 00:22:22,356 over, like stand out issues, things that people can just -380 +396 00:22:22,356 --> 00:22:25,656 really look at and say, all right, let's start here. -381 +397 00:22:26,352 --> 00:22:34,511 Todd: Well, where do I begin? It's it's a lot, but mainly it's -382 +398 00:22:34,511 --> 00:22:42,311 color contrast. Okay. Um, that's the biggest one. Um, and, uh, -383 -00:22:43,846 --> 00:22:46,666 +399 +00:22:43,846 --> 00:22:45,256 Keyboard accessibility is -another and throwing a third +another and I'lk throw in a -384 +400 +00:22:45,256 --> 00:22:46,666 +third + +401 00:22:46,666 --> 00:22:49,486 one. And -385 +402 00:22:49,487 --> 00:22:52,352 -that being, uh, alt text on +that being, uh, ALT text on images, the alternative text, -386 +403 00:22:52,352 --> 00:22:55,217 um, -387 +404 00:22:56,537 --> 00:23:07,217 -I've had, you know, a lot of alt +I've had, you know, a lot of ALT text can be a tricky, um, uh, a -388 +405 00:23:07,217 --> 00:23:11,747 tricky thing because people think, well, I have this image. -389 +406 00:23:12,817 --> 00:23:19,477 And I need to really go into detail what that image is -390 +407 00:23:19,477 --> 00:23:21,711 conveying. If it's an informative image and you really -391 +408 00:23:21,711 --> 00:23:23,945 don't just a -392 +409 00:23:23,946 --> 00:23:31,146 short, you know, it's a purple flower in a field, um, is fine. -393 +410 00:23:31,146 --> 00:23:33,546 You don't have to go into, I've seen on Twitter because they -394 +411 00:23:33,546 --> 00:23:35,946 give -395 +412 00:23:35,946 --> 00:23:38,218 you a thousand characters for -alt text. And I've seen this. +ALT text. And I've seen this. -396 +413 00:23:38,218 --> 00:23:40,490 I've -397 +414 00:23:40,491 --> 00:23:41,892 seen alt text that long before. -398 +415 00:23:42,031 --> 00:23:43,771 Bekah: I always wonder, like, I, I don't think I've written -399 +416 00:23:43,771 --> 00:23:45,511 enough -400 +417 00:23:45,541 --> 00:23:47,311 because I'm not even close to the 1000 and I have a thousand -401 +418 00:23:47,311 --> 00:23:49,081 to -402 +419 00:23:49,082 --> 00:23:49,531 write. -403 +420 00:23:49,696 --> 00:23:51,766 Dan: Yeah. I always try to just like, like, just say the joker. -404 +421 00:23:51,766 --> 00:23:53,836 I -405 +422 00:23:53,836 --> 00:23:54,961 mean, usually if I'm posting an image, it's a joke, you know, -406 +423 00:23:54,961 --> 00:23:56,086 but -407 +424 00:23:56,086 --> 00:24:00,136 like the shortest version of the joke is, you know, so I like -408 +425 00:24:00,136 --> 00:24:03,287 posted one today and it was just like guys saying thumbs up or -409 +426 00:24:03,287 --> 00:24:05,267 something like that, that, you know, you know what I mean? like -410 +427 00:24:05,416 --> 00:24:07,111 that seems that at least seems like usually enough. I don't -411 +428 00:24:07,111 --> 00:24:08,806 need -412 +429 00:24:08,807 --> 00:24:09,436 to give the whole, -413 +430 00:24:09,557 --> 00:24:11,656 Bekah: Sometimes I just don't post because I don't know how to -414 +431 00:24:11,656 --> 00:24:15,856 describe it. Like, well, I'm not really sure that I know how to -415 +432 00:24:15,856 --> 00:24:19,336 say capture what this is doing, so we'll go, we'll go for -416 +433 00:24:19,336 --> 00:24:19,936 something else. -417 +434 00:24:20,767 --> 00:24:24,297 Todd: There's a lot of debate around how long should it be? It -418 +435 00:24:24,297 --> 00:24:27,116 shouldn't be 180 characters. Should it be a certain amount of -419 +436 00:24:27,116 --> 00:24:31,646 words, but just as long as it conveys in a short succinct, -420 +437 00:24:32,636 --> 00:24:39,086 Sentence, I guess that's fine. Um, and of course you have some -421 +438 00:24:39,176 --> 00:24:43,287 images decorative that, ya know, -it needs an empty all text. And +it needs an empty alt text. And -422 +439 00:24:43,287 --> 00:24:47,876 that's a big one because I was just doing an audit and they had -423 +440 00:24:47,876 --> 00:24:53,547 decorative images, but no, alt, no empty alt text, um, which is -424 +441 00:24:53,547 --> 00:24:57,326 just the alt equals, you know, quotes and it's, the quotes are -425 +442 00:24:57,326 --> 00:24:58,346 empty in between, -426 +443 00:24:58,961 --> 00:25:01,781 Bekah: Can you explain that? Cause that I had just recently -427 +444 00:25:01,781 --> 00:25:06,892 learned about that, but. Don't quite understand why that's the -428 +445 00:25:06,892 --> 00:25:07,471 standard. -429 +446 00:25:08,172 --> 00:25:11,757 Todd: So there's a, it tells a screen reader. There's an image -430 +447 00:25:11,757 --> 00:25:14,081 there, but it doesn't, it doesn't need it's decorative -431 +448 00:25:14,081 --> 00:25:16,405 basically. -432 +449 00:25:16,406 --> 00:25:19,237 So it just there's, there's no -need to, to +need to, describe -433 +450 00:25:19,636 --> 00:25:22,426 Dan: ha what happens in a screenwriter? If it runs into an -434 +451 00:25:22,426 --> 00:25:24,257 image with no alt attribute at all? -435 +452 00:25:25,297 --> 00:25:29,797 Todd: Uh, it skips over it. So you're loo the, the user is -436 +453 00:25:29,797 --> 00:25:31,326 losing information. So if there's something you're trying -437 +454 00:25:31,326 --> 00:25:32,855 to -438 +455 00:25:32,856 --> 00:25:37,567 convey, like let's use the, um, like, an infographic, for -439 +456 00:25:37,656 --> 00:25:40,491 example, and there's no alt text on it. That user that's using -440 +457 00:25:40,491 --> 00:25:43,326 the -441 +458 00:25:43,326 --> 00:25:47,356 screen reader is not gonna know that it's there. -442 +459 00:25:47,997 --> 00:25:52,836 Dan: Totally. Totally. And so in the case of a decorative image -443 +460 00:25:52,866 --> 00:25:56,317 where we don't need. It's okay. If his screen, you know, if it's -444 +461 00:25:56,317 --> 00:25:59,227 okay, if anybody skips over it, what do you know, what is the -445 +462 00:25:59,227 --> 00:26:01,446 tactical difference for a screen reader for a user on a screen -446 +463 00:26:01,446 --> 00:26:07,326 reader between empty, an image with an like with a alt property -447 +464 00:26:07,326 --> 00:26:12,727 and just an empty string and an image with alt you know, defined -448 +465 00:26:12,727 --> 00:26:13,086 at all. -449 -00:26:15,707 --> 00:26:24,866 -Todd: So. it's okay. Let's use a -logo. As an example, if you have +466 +00:26:15,707 --> 00:26:20,286 +Todd: So. if it's okay. Let's +use a logo. As an example, if -450 +467 +00:26:20,286 --> 00:26:24,865 +you have + +468 00:26:25,287 --> 00:26:31,257 empty alt text on your logo, and it's also linked, the screen -451 +469 00:26:31,257 --> 00:26:39,116 reader will read that link and you don't want that to read it. -452 +470 00:26:39,326 --> 00:26:45,382 You don't want it to. It doesn't really need to, I mean, there's -453 +471 00:26:45,382 --> 00:26:51,352 cases where somebody may say, yeah, I want the person to know -454 +472 00:26:51,352 --> 00:26:53,901 what the logo looks like, but if it's not really necessary, um, -455 +473 00:26:53,901 --> 00:26:56,450 no -456 +474 00:26:56,451 --> 00:27:04,342 alt text, you know, it's the screen reader. Won't read -457 +475 00:27:04,342 --> 00:27:07,994 anything and. As far as I know. And I'll be the first to say, -458 +476 00:27:07,994 --> 00:27:11,646 I'm -459 +477 00:27:11,646 --> 00:27:13,986 not an expert by any means with screen readers, because this is -460 +478 00:27:13,986 --> 00:27:16,326 a -461 +479 00:27:16,326 --> 00:27:19,836 lot of different stuff. I've been learning lately, but to -462 +480 00:27:19,836 --> 00:27:23,346 mine, to -463 +481 00:27:23,346 --> 00:27:30,096 my recollection, anyways, an empty. So the end. So no alt -464 +482 00:27:30,096 --> 00:27:35,872 texts. Let me get this straight. No, alt text, the URL will be -465 +483 00:27:35,872 --> 00:27:37,311 read to the image. -466 +484 00:27:39,307 --> 00:27:40,507 Dan: Okay. Yeah. That's the big difference. All right. That's -467 +485 00:27:40,507 --> 00:27:41,707 the -468 +486 00:27:41,707 --> 00:27:42,126 -part, I didn't +part, I didn't know -469 +487 00:27:42,422 --> 00:27:43,321 Todd: Yes. Yup. -470 +488 00:27:43,356 --> 00:27:48,547 Dan: no alt text at all, like no, alt property defined. When a -471 +489 00:27:48,547 --> 00:27:50,797 screen reader is reading it, it'll come through normal texts -472 +490 00:27:50,826 --> 00:27:52,506 and then it'll just read like, blah, blah, blah dot JPEG. -473 +491 00:27:52,506 --> 00:27:54,186 -Right. +Todd: Yes Dan: Right. -474 +492 00:27:54,707 --> 00:27:55,686 Okay. That's -475 +493 00:27:55,721 --> 00:27:59,892 Todd: And then the, the empty alt is silent. So that's. -476 +494 00:27:59,961 --> 00:28:01,191 Dan: it'll that tells it to skip right over it, which is you -477 +495 00:28:01,191 --> 00:28:02,421 want. -478 +496 00:28:02,422 --> 00:28:04,432 Sometimes like, sometimes that is the preferred thing or like -479 +497 00:28:04,432 --> 00:28:06,442 the -480 +498 00:28:06,442 --> 00:28:09,652 decorative image where it's a background image or something -481 +499 00:28:09,652 --> 00:28:12,832 like that, or, background, but like, you know, sometimes it's -482 +500 00:28:12,832 --> 00:28:14,872 just used for decoration. Doesn't need to convey actually -483 +501 00:28:14,872 --> 00:28:17,352 information. and so in those cases, putting an empty, alt -484 +502 00:28:17,352 --> 00:28:19,832 like -485 +503 00:28:19,832 --> 00:28:24,862 alt equals, you know, empty string. Is is actually very good -486 +504 00:28:24,862 --> 00:28:28,521 and much like very good for accessibility because otherwise -487 +505 00:28:28,521 --> 00:28:32,632 they're going to see probably a very long URL with dot JPEG, -488 +506 00:28:32,991 --> 00:28:34,311 which means nothing to them. Right. -489 +507 00:28:34,382 --> 00:28:35,491 Todd: Yes. Exactly. -490 +508 00:28:35,721 --> 00:28:38,211 Dan: Oh, that's great. Um, that's one of those things that. -491 +509 00:28:38,211 --> 00:28:40,701 And -492 +510 00:28:40,701 --> 00:28:44,541 I've seen a lot of people. This is a separate topic, like that, -493 +511 00:28:44,541 --> 00:28:48,711 that little, like, pick that little bit, just, just even just -494 +512 00:28:48,711 --> 00:28:52,642 Alt getting like your head wrapped around how to deal with -495 +513 00:28:52,682 --> 00:28:56,932 alt, alt texts. Um, like you -said, mix can make a huge +said, makes can make a huge -496 +514 00:28:56,932 --> 00:29:00,501 difference for accessibility making a for your users. oh, -497 +515 00:29:00,501 --> 00:29:01,132 that's really cool. -498 +516 00:29:02,376 --> 00:29:03,636 Bekah: And you were talking about one of the big problems -499 +517 00:29:03,636 --> 00:29:04,896 being -500 +518 00:29:04,896 --> 00:29:09,727 color contrast. And that seems like something that could be -501 +519 00:29:09,727 --> 00:29:15,636 pretty simple to identify with a Lighthouse audit. Um, can you -502 +520 00:29:15,636 --> 00:29:18,606 explain what a Lighthouse audit is? And if you're like, that's -503 +521 00:29:18,606 --> 00:29:21,787 not the way to go. This other method is better. Um, I would -504 +522 00:29:21,787 --> 00:29:22,207 -love to hear that. +love to hear as well. -505 +523 00:29:23,862 --> 00:29:26,786 Todd: So, I mean, I've used Lighthouse before. I don't -506 +524 00:29:26,786 --> 00:29:29,710 really -507 +525 00:29:29,711 --> 00:29:32,186 rely on lighthouse. Lighthouse runs off of axe-core and which -508 +526 00:29:32,186 --> 00:29:34,661 is -509 +527 00:29:34,662 --> 00:29:42,132 great, but I don't think it really gets to the root of every -510 +528 00:29:42,521 --> 00:29:49,301 issue. And it really can't. Uh, plus you have false positives, -511 +529 00:29:49,301 --> 00:29:52,692 which is, you know, something, it, for example, I was just -512 +530 00:29:52,692 --> 00:29:55,932 talking about this on the, in the, in the Slack, uh, Virtual -513 +531 00:29:55,932 --> 00:29:58,699 Coffee Slack. False positives for color contrast, you know, -514 +532 00:29:58,699 --> 00:30:01,466 I've -515 +533 00:30:01,467 --> 00:30:04,737 come across instances where it will flag color, contrast -516 +534 00:30:04,737 --> 00:30:08,007 errors, -517 +535 00:30:08,007 --> 00:30:13,676 but the color contrast is far exceeds the 4.5 to one ratio. So -518 +536 00:30:14,126 --> 00:30:16,767 I don't really rely on Lighthouse. I mean, it's a good -519 +537 00:30:16,767 --> 00:30:18,701 tool. Don't get me wrong because there's that performance piece -520 +538 00:30:18,701 --> 00:30:20,635 to -521 +539 00:30:20,636 --> 00:30:25,693 it that I really, really like, uh, using and, um, As far as, -522 +540 00:30:25,693 --> 00:30:30,750 you -523 +541 00:30:30,751 --> 00:30:34,301 know, it's a good tool, don't get me wrong, but I use, and I -524 +542 00:30:34,301 --> 00:30:37,851 used -525 +543 00:30:37,852 --> 00:30:40,432 to use it. I used to use it myself. I mean, I used it on my -526 +544 00:30:40,432 --> 00:30:42,801 site and was like, yeah, one hundreds. I got one hundreds -527 +545 00:30:42,801 --> 00:30:46,342 across the board and you know, that, that virtual confetti -528 +546 00:30:46,342 --> 00:30:53,471 flying everywhere. But, um, the tools that I use would be, um, -529 +547 00:30:56,067 --> 00:30:59,711 It's a contrast hyphen ratio.com, which is Lea Verou, -530 +548 00:30:59,711 --> 00:31:03,355 uh, color -531 +549 00:31:03,356 --> 00:31:06,716 contrast site. I also use, um, the, let me look, I have it on -532 +550 00:31:06,716 --> 00:31:10,076 my -533 +551 00:31:10,076 --> 00:31:12,836 other machine here, the color contrast analyzer. And that is -534 +552 00:31:12,836 --> 00:31:15,596 by -535 +553 00:31:15,747 --> 00:31:18,926 The Paciello Group. So Steven Faulkner has based on the -536 +554 00:31:18,926 --> 00:31:22,105 Windows -537 +555 00:31:22,106 --> 00:31:24,131 version, the Mac iOS version was developed by somebody else. Uh, -538 +556 00:31:24,131 --> 00:31:26,156 I -539 +557 00:31:26,156 --> 00:31:33,926 use that, that tool as well. Um, and I will provide, uh, the link -540 +558 00:31:33,926 --> 00:31:34,497 to that. -541 +559 00:31:35,414 --> 00:31:37,419 Bekah: This great, I'm like really looking forward, it could -542 +560 00:31:37,419 --> 00:31:40,598 diving into a lot of these resources that you are dropping -543 +561 00:31:40,598 --> 00:31:43,043 right now. Cause I think sometimes it's hard to know -544 +562 00:31:43,043 --> 00:31:45,488 where -545 +563 00:31:45,489 --> 00:31:51,068 to start. And, I think that's just a problem with teaching -546 +564 00:31:51,429 --> 00:31:54,413 developers in general. There's not a focus on it. It's not -547 +565 00:31:54,413 --> 00:31:57,397 built -548 +566 00:31:57,429 --> 00:32:07,118 into most curriculums and, um, at all. And so there's a lack of -549 +567 00:32:07,118 --> 00:32:11,773 focus, I think, as a result of that. And then not knowing where -550 +568 00:32:11,773 --> 00:32:16,114 to start, or if you're with a company that doesn't look at -551 +569 00:32:16,114 --> 00:32:18,668 those things, then I think it can be, you can find yourself a -552 +570 00:32:18,668 --> 00:32:21,222 while -553 +571 00:32:21,223 --> 00:32:27,223 down the path and and not know what you should be identifying, -554 +572 00:32:27,223 --> 00:32:30,374 how you should be approaching this. And so the more that we -555 +573 00:32:30,374 --> 00:32:35,084 talk about it, I think the better, um, where do you think -556 +574 00:32:35,534 --> 00:32:39,044 people could get started if they want to learn more about -557 +575 00:32:39,044 --> 00:32:39,403 -accessible? +accessiblity? -558 +576 00:32:40,094 --> 00:32:44,378 -Todd: So the w three C has a +Todd: So the W three C has a great, um, intro to -559 +577 00:32:44,378 --> 00:32:48,662 accessibility -560 +578 00:32:48,692 --> 00:32:52,982 class, which I believe is still free. And yeah, it's an -561 +579 00:32:53,042 --> 00:32:55,947 Introduction to Web Accessibility on edex.org. And, -562 +580 00:32:55,947 --> 00:32:58,852 uh, I took that -563 +581 00:32:58,853 --> 00:33:01,450 class even. Um, and it was it's great. Uh, you can pace -564 +582 00:33:01,450 --> 00:33:04,047 yourself. -565 +583 00:33:04,528 --> 00:33:07,092 Doesn't have to be real fast is no, you know, there's no due -566 +584 00:33:07,092 --> 00:33:09,656 date -567 +585 00:33:09,657 --> 00:33:11,907 or anything. There's a free version. If you want a -568 +586 00:33:11,907 --> 00:33:17,877 certificate, you got to pay a certain amount. Um, it's like if -569 +587 00:33:17,877 --> 00:33:21,238 you put in four to five hours a week, it's like for four weeks -570 +588 00:33:21,238 --> 00:33:27,373 long, uh, to do. It gives a good overview of, excuse me, -571 +589 00:33:27,373 --> 00:33:30,868 accessibility, and you know, some of the guidelines there's, -572 +590 00:33:30,868 --> 00:33:34,363 um, a -573 +591 00:33:34,363 --> 00:33:40,542 lot of good information on the web, uh, and, uh, even have to -574 +592 00:33:40,542 --> 00:33:44,532 pitch Nobility's website and their blog. They go over some of -575 +593 00:33:44,532 --> 00:33:50,337 the, uh, WCAG guidelines and accessibility is also, I want to -576 -00:33:50,337 --> 00:33:55,077 -make this clear accessibility is -more than just WCAG guidelines. +594 +00:33:50,337 --> 00:33:52,707 +make this clear, accessibility +is more than just WCAG -577 +595 +00:33:52,707 --> 00:33:55,077 +guidelines. + +596 00:33:55,438 --> 00:34:01,647 Um, it's also about inclusive design as well. Um, making sure, -578 +597 00:34:01,917 --> 00:34:07,048 you know, certain demographics aren't, you know, kept out that, -579 +598 00:34:07,048 --> 00:34:12,117 that everybody's included, um, hence the name inclusive design. -580 +599 00:34:12,447 --> 00:34:21,768 Um, but, um, Some other, um, let's see. That's a good -581 +600 00:34:21,768 --> 00:34:24,797 question. Cause there's so much, I mean, I guess, you know, a -582 +601 00:34:24,797 --> 00:34:31,728 search would come up with a lot of different things. WebAIM.org -583 +602 00:34:31,797 --> 00:34:36,027 has some good stuff. As far as accessibility, learning -584 +603 00:34:36,027 --> 00:34:43,018 accessibility, um, level access does, uh, let's see who else. -585 +604 00:34:44,327 --> 00:34:47,310 TPGI has good stuff. So there's, there's a lot out there that, -586 +605 00:34:47,310 --> 00:34:50,293 you -587 +606 00:34:50,293 --> 00:34:54,913 know, people can find on, you know, even there's even like -588 +607 00:34:54,913 --> 00:35:00,943 courses on, I guess Udemy and platforms like that as well. -589 +608 00:35:03,853 --> 00:35:06,613 -Bekah: So, this has kind of been -your focus the entire time +Bekah: So ki, this has kind of +been your focus the entire time -590 +609 00:35:06,613 --> 00:35:09,373 you've -591 +610 00:35:09,373 --> 00:35:15,373 been working in tech. Was there a reason that you went down this -592 +611 00:35:15,373 --> 00:35:17,877 path or, or something that kind of inspired this journey? Or -593 +612 00:35:17,877 --> 00:35:20,381 have -594 +613 00:35:20,382 --> 00:35:22,463 you just always been interested in it? -595 +614 00:35:24,333 --> 00:35:30,722 Todd: Uh, it started when a couple of family members, I have -596 +615 00:35:30,722 --> 00:35:36,603 like three family members that -have disabilities, um, to have +have disabilities, um, two have -597 +616 00:35:36,603 --> 00:35:45,012 motor skill disabilities, one visual and. Seeing the looks of -598 +617 00:35:45,012 --> 00:35:48,342 frustration on their faces when they're trying to access -599 +618 00:35:48,342 --> 00:35:52,842 something that's inaccessible on the web really got me motivated -600 +619 00:35:52,842 --> 00:36:01,362 in the beginning and carries me to this day. Really. Um, I kind -601 +620 00:36:01,362 --> 00:36:08,916 of towards like 2018, 2019 was kind of like. I guess slacking -602 +621 00:36:08,916 --> 00:36:11,631 off a little bit with my accessibility, but I get -603 +622 00:36:11,631 --> 00:36:14,346 together -604 +623 00:36:14,347 --> 00:36:17,197 with our friend, Chris DeMars in Burlington, Vermont. There was -605 +624 00:36:17,197 --> 00:36:20,047 a, -606 +625 00:36:20,106 --> 00:36:27,811 there was a conference and. You know, he gave a great talk and -607 +626 00:36:27,992 --> 00:36:32,972 that really lit the fire again. So there's been a really, it's -608 +627 00:36:32,972 --> 00:36:38,911 been like laser, like focus for me as far as, since then. And, -609 +628 00:36:38,942 --> 00:36:41,896 um, just the looks of frustration on faces of people -610 +629 00:36:41,896 --> 00:36:44,850 that I've -611 +630 00:36:44,851 --> 00:36:49,831 seen, trying to access something that's inaccessible on the web. -612 +631 00:36:50,461 --> 00:36:58,416 Yeah. It's just, it's very, um, the word I'm looking for here, -613 +632 00:36:58,956 --> 00:37:04,086 very, uh, it hits home. It really, you know, being that I -614 +633 00:37:04,086 --> 00:37:12,186 try to advocate for people that don't have a voice. And, um, I -615 +634 00:37:12,186 --> 00:37:17,452 think as, as accessibility, professional, We all, do we try -616 +635 00:37:17,452 --> 00:37:20,992 to advocate for those people? Um, especially lately with -617 +636 00:37:20,992 --> 00:37:24,532 certain, I -618 +637 00:37:24,532 --> 00:37:28,641 will use it in quotes, accessibility, overlays, for -619 +638 00:37:28,641 --> 00:37:35,331 instance, but, um, yeah, that's basically where it all started -620 +639 00:37:35,331 --> 00:37:37,956 was just those family members and friends and just seeing -621 +640 00:37:37,956 --> 00:37:40,581 people, -622 +641 00:37:40,731 --> 00:37:45,711 uh, yeah. Th the frustration and the point where they're ready to -623 +642 00:37:45,711 --> 00:37:46,282 give up. -624 +643 00:37:47,967 --> 00:37:53,067 Bekah: Yeah, I, was just with Chris last week. Um, he spoke at -625 +644 00:37:53,336 --> 00:37:58,117 -KC DC. He along with Cass Ferris -and they did anaccessibility +KCDC. He along with Cass Ferris +and they did an accessibility -626 +645 00:37:58,137 --> 00:38:00,777 talk. That was the first time I got to see him speak in person. -627 +646 00:38:01,422 --> 00:38:05,052 It was really great because they both come at it with a lot of -628 +647 00:38:05,052 --> 00:38:07,316 passion and examples. And I think for so many of us, we have -629 +648 00:38:07,316 --> 00:38:09,580 a -630 +649 00:38:09,581 --> 00:38:13,001 general sense of what accessibility is, but we don't -631 +650 00:38:13,001 --> 00:38:18,876 have that broader sense of, uh, you know, it might be. Um, there -632 +651 00:38:18,876 --> 00:38:23,257 might be a disability that you can't see, or it might be a -633 +652 00:38:23,257 --> 00:38:25,132 temporary disability or a mental health challenge that somebody -634 +653 00:38:25,132 --> 00:38:27,007 is -635 +654 00:38:27,007 --> 00:38:30,126 going through and all of those things can impact what -636 +655 00:38:30,126 --> 00:38:34,177 accessibility looks like. And if you really look at the people -637 +656 00:38:34,177 --> 00:38:39,681 around you, you for sure know someone that has one of those -638 +657 00:38:39,681 --> 00:38:43,492 challenges or, or you have one yourself. And so, you know, -639 +658 00:38:43,521 --> 00:38:46,192 opening up the conversations about this, you know, like you -640 +659 00:38:46,192 --> 00:38:50,751 have in, in like Chris and Cass have, I think is so important to -641 +660 00:38:50,961 --> 00:38:53,902 really making change in, in tech overall. -642 +661 00:38:55,661 --> 00:38:58,871 Todd: Yeah, I, you, know, you you brought up invisible. -643 +662 00:39:01,766 --> 00:39:06,297 Disabilities. I have migraine headaches. Uh, I get them when -644 +663 00:39:06,297 --> 00:39:11,306 something sets off, if there's a website, I visit that as, you -645 +664 00:39:11,306 --> 00:39:17,306 know, animation or motion that really it's too much. And it's -646 +665 00:39:17,336 --> 00:39:20,757 triggers a migraine. I mean, there's all that stuff that you -647 +666 00:39:20,757 --> 00:39:26,541 mentioned and. Yeah. It's, you know, uh, Chris is great. You -648 +667 00:39:26,541 --> 00:39:33,231 know, I, I I've seen him talk, you know, virtually and then -649 +668 00:39:33,831 --> 00:39:37,132 before the pandemic and everything, and we've gotten to -650 +669 00:39:37,132 --> 00:39:39,306 know each other and he, you know, he does a great job -651 +670 00:39:39,306 --> 00:39:41,480 advocating. -652 +671 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,369 Bekah: yeah. I think, you know, even so a couple of years ago I -653 +672 00:39:44,369 --> 00:39:48,090 was diagnosed with ADHD and it's interesting how much I didn't -654 +673 00:39:48,090 --> 00:39:50,370 realize that impacts the things that I interact with and the -655 +674 00:39:50,370 --> 00:39:52,650 ways -656 +675 00:39:52,650 --> 00:39:56,965 that I interact with things. Maybe this is just a personal -657 +676 00:39:56,965 --> 00:39:59,905 problem, but this is the conversation between Discord and -658 +677 00:39:59,905 --> 00:40:04,135 Slack. For me, like I walk into Discord, I don't walk in there. -659 +678 00:40:04,494 --> 00:40:06,684 Um, I open up Discord and it's immediately just overwhelming -660 +679 00:40:06,684 --> 00:40:08,874 and -661 +680 00:40:08,875 --> 00:40:11,514 I don't know where to go from there. And then I just like -662 +681 00:40:11,844 --> 00:40:15,655 slowly back out the door, right? Like there's too much going on -663 +682 00:40:15,655 --> 00:40:16,135 for me. -664 +683 00:40:16,356 --> 00:40:19,657 Todd: Yeah. That information overload happens to me as well. -665 +684 00:40:19,717 --> 00:40:28,811 Um, it's like Slack and, uh, Discord and. There's yeah, I was -666 +685 00:40:28,811 --> 00:40:32,171 on, I was watching a, uh, Twitch stream yesterday and the chat -667 +686 00:40:32,171 --> 00:40:35,531 was -668 +687 00:40:35,532 --> 00:40:39,882 going off and I was just like, I just, I can't, I want to be able -669 +688 00:40:39,882 --> 00:40:44,112 to kind of read the chat and I can't because you know it, yeah. -670 +689 00:40:44,121 --> 00:40:46,481 The information overload is a big thing too. -671 +690 00:40:47,889 --> 00:40:52,929 Bekah: So I, you know, I think, um, Your background, you talked -672 +691 00:40:52,929 --> 00:40:57,400 about your journey through this and it seems like you've been -673 +692 00:40:57,429 --> 00:40:59,679 mostly self-taught then, is that right? -674 +693 00:41:00,586 --> 00:41:03,248 Todd: Yeah. Um, I started, when I picked up that Commodore 64 -675 +694 00:41:03,248 --> 00:41:05,910 user -676 +695 00:41:05,911 --> 00:41:09,841 manual. And just, I love to read -and I read that I had purchased +and I read that. I had purchased -677 +696 00:41:09,841 --> 00:41:13,771 a -678 +697 00:41:13,771 --> 00:41:17,821 book. It was a Learn HTML in 21 days. And it was like a big, -679 +698 00:41:17,821 --> 00:41:21,871 huge -680 +699 00:41:21,902 --> 00:41:26,851 thick phone book, like manual. And I read through that. That's -681 +700 00:41:26,851 --> 00:41:33,242 how I actually made my first website. Uh, not that I put it -682 +701 00:41:33,242 --> 00:41:39,632 out on the web or anything, but then I. Um, I graduated from -683 +702 00:41:39,632 --> 00:41:41,761 there on, I went to Geo Cities and Angel Fire and Tripod and -684 +703 00:41:41,761 --> 00:41:43,890 all -685 +704 00:41:43,891 --> 00:41:46,922 those websites, if you remember those websites -686 +705 00:41:46,942 --> 00:41:47,612 -Dan: here. Yeah. +Dan: oh. Yeah. -687 +706 00:41:47,972 --> 00:41:52,411 Todd: and all the great, you know, lime green and pastel and, -688 +707 00:41:52,742 --> 00:41:56,559 you know, fluorescent colors. Um, and then, you know, It's -689 +708 00:41:56,559 --> 00:42:00,376 been a -690 +709 00:42:00,376 --> 00:42:04,847 learning process the entire time and I love to learn. So it's one -691 +710 00:42:04,847 --> 00:42:07,456 of those things where if I can pick up something in a Slack -692 +711 00:42:07,876 --> 00:42:13,427 group or on a Discord channel, that's great. I've, you know, I -693 +712 00:42:13,427 --> 00:42:19,947 keep learning every day and, you know, learning. Lately it's been -694 +713 00:42:19,947 --> 00:42:23,936 learning the intricacies of the WCAG guidelines because there's -695 +714 00:42:23,936 --> 00:42:26,756 so much there. Um, and being able to, and I'm grateful for -696 +715 00:42:26,756 --> 00:42:29,576 this -697 +716 00:42:29,606 --> 00:42:36,177 being able to work on the next, I guess, version, which is 3.0, -698 +717 00:42:36,987 --> 00:42:41,097 which is a few years down the road has been a learning process -699 +718 00:42:41,097 --> 00:42:43,091 as well. And being a member of -the W3C is to, and being in +the W3C is too, and being in -700 +719 00:42:43,091 --> 00:42:45,085 those -701 +720 00:42:45,086 --> 00:42:49,902 meetings and. We're learning so much from a great group of -702 +721 00:42:49,902 --> 00:42:50,322 people. -703 +722 00:42:50,942 --> 00:42:52,547 Bekah: Yeah, that's awesome. I love that idea of just -704 +723 00:42:52,547 --> 00:42:54,152 consistent -705 +724 00:42:54,152 --> 00:42:55,636 learning and being open to learning all of the time, -706 +725 00:42:55,636 --> 00:42:57,120 because -707 +726 00:42:57,121 --> 00:43:02,161 I think no matter what part of tech or, or any industry really -708 +727 00:43:02,161 --> 00:43:05,612 that you're in the being open to learning new things and talking -709 +728 00:43:05,612 --> 00:43:07,697 through things with other people. and understanding is, -710 +729 00:43:07,697 --> 00:43:09,782 you know, -711 +730 00:43:09,782 --> 00:43:14,251 that that's what growing is about. That's what is important -712 +731 00:43:14,251 --> 00:43:14,882 to what you're doing. -713 +732 00:43:18,112 --> 00:43:23,001 Todd: Yeah. It's, you know, even I've, you know, learned, I -714 +733 00:43:23,001 --> 00:43:26,722 learned on Twitter as well, you know, I see something, a link to -715 +734 00:43:26,722 --> 00:43:30,262 an article or something and I check it out and it's like, oh, -716 +735 00:43:30,291 --> 00:43:37,981 well, you know, Today I learned, you know, and you know, I it's -717 +736 00:43:38,041 --> 00:43:40,591 it's, you know, there was a quote and I'll try to find that -718 +737 00:43:40,591 --> 00:43:43,141 quote -719 +738 00:43:43,172 --> 00:43:49,532 because I love the quote. Um, it had something to do with, uh, -720 +739 00:43:49,652 --> 00:43:57,601 doing something. Yeah, right -there. Um, there are three +there. Um, "there are three -721 +740 00:43:57,601 --> 00:44:03,976 things. Everyone should do every day. Number one is laugh. Number -722 +741 00:44:03,976 --> 00:44:09,407 two is think, spend some time in thought number three, you should -723 +742 00:44:09,407 --> 00:44:11,221 have your emotions, you to tears. If you laugh, think and -724 +743 00:44:11,221 --> 00:44:13,035 cry, -725 -00:44:13,036 --> 00:44:17,476 -that's a heck of a day. And that -was just like the best quote. I +744 +00:44:13,036 --> 00:44:15,256 +that's a heck of a day." And +that was just like the best -726 +745 +00:44:15,256 --> 00:44:17,476 +quote. I + +746 00:44:17,476 --> 00:44:21,916 think I've seen it in a long, long time. I even add to that -727 +747 00:44:21,916 --> 00:44:23,137 learning one thing a day. -728 +748 00:44:23,873 --> 00:44:27,838 Bekah: Yeah. I love that so much. I didn't think, you know, -729 +749 00:44:27,869 --> 00:44:30,133 learning things on Twitter for me has been really big as well. -730 +750 00:44:30,133 --> 00:44:32,397 Even -731 +751 00:44:32,398 --> 00:44:36,239 when somebody just has a small portion of a tweet at, for some -732 +752 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,329 reason, it sticks in my mind better than if I read a whole -733 +753 00:44:39,329 --> 00:44:42,418 article on that thing. And I think maybe because there's some -734 +754 00:44:42,418 --> 00:44:44,278 type of personal connection there. Oh, I remember that -735 +755 00:44:44,278 --> 00:44:46,138 person -736 +756 00:44:46,139 --> 00:44:48,929 said this one thing and it, you know, it might be some type of -737 +757 00:44:49,199 --> 00:44:53,338 coding tip or whatever, but I think that just be just sharing -738 +758 00:44:53,338 --> 00:44:57,568 that knowledge or, or it's Hey, I know that I could ask that -739 +759 00:44:57,568 --> 00:45:02,849 person. That question can be really helpful in finding the -740 +760 00:45:02,849 --> 00:45:07,768 answers to things or having more confidence in, in being, being -741 +761 00:45:07,798 --> 00:45:09,298 able to ask questions. -742 +762 00:45:10,208 --> 00:45:17,648 Todd: Yeah. It's it's, you know, I use Twitter as a tool to say, -743 +763 00:45:18,699 --> 00:45:22,358 you know, oh, you, you mentioned something about the new, you -744 +764 00:45:22,358 --> 00:45:25,388 know, um, whatever coming, coming down the line. I've got a -745 +765 00:45:25,388 --> 00:45:28,418 couple -746 +766 00:45:28,418 --> 00:45:33,349 of questions for you. Um, you know, Hey, can I, you know, DM -747 +767 00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:36,998 you, I got a question I need to ask and it reaching out to -748 +768 00:45:36,998 --> 00:45:40,869 somebody to, or to the person that, you know, had that tweet -749 +769 00:45:41,259 --> 00:45:44,243 -it's, uh, and, and Mo you know, +it's, uh, and, and Mos you know, I don't think I've ever had -750 +770 00:45:44,243 --> 00:45:47,227 anybody -751 +771 00:45:47,228 --> 00:45:48,743 go no I don't want to tell you the answer or anything like -752 +772 00:45:48,743 --> 00:45:50,258 that. -753 +773 00:45:50,438 --> 00:45:55,418 So, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's always been, you know, Hey, you -754 +774 00:45:55,418 --> 00:46:00,074 know, I've got this question. People are more than, you know, -755 +775 00:46:00,943 --> 00:46:04,304 more than welcome to, to answer those questions. -756 +776 00:46:05,634 --> 00:46:07,943 Bekah: Yeah. And I think that's so big, especially when we're -757 +777 00:46:07,943 --> 00:46:11,244 talking about this topic. If you don't know it is okay to ask -758 +778 00:46:11,244 --> 00:46:13,208 somebody, Or ask someone just to direct you, you know, I'm -759 +779 00:46:13,208 --> 00:46:15,172 getting -760 +780 00:46:15,173 --> 00:46:17,003 started in this. It's not been a focus. How, how do I get -761 +781 00:46:17,003 --> 00:46:18,833 started? -762 +782 00:46:18,833 --> 00:46:20,798 What do I do? And dropped a lot of great resources here, but, -763 +783 00:46:20,798 --> 00:46:22,763 you -764 +784 00:46:22,764 --> 00:46:26,333 know, I think in, in every place and space we should, we should -765 +785 00:46:26,333 --> 00:46:27,893 know that it is okay to ask about these things. And it's -766 +786 00:46:27,893 --> 00:46:29,453 good to do -767 +787 00:46:29,454 --> 00:46:29,813 that. -768 +788 00:46:30,429 --> 00:46:32,393 Todd: Yeah, definitely. You know, I tell people, you know, -769 +789 00:46:32,393 --> 00:46:34,357 if you -770 +790 00:46:34,358 --> 00:46:35,738 have a question about accessibility, I'll do my best -771 +791 00:46:35,738 --> 00:46:37,118 to -772 +792 00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:38,903 answer. If I can't answer it, I will find somebody that can, or -773 +793 00:46:38,903 --> 00:46:40,687 I -774 +794 00:46:40,688 --> 00:46:42,103 will look it up and see if I can get you the answer, because -775 +795 00:46:42,103 --> 00:46:43,518 it's, -776 +796 00:46:43,518 --> 00:46:45,490 it's, it's that little, you know, it's that being helpful? -777 +797 00:46:45,490 --> 00:46:47,462 And -778 +798 00:46:47,463 --> 00:46:50,364 again, making, you know, making sure that person has that -779 +799 00:46:50,364 --> 00:46:54,594 information for me anyways, is, is big. And, you know, just -780 +800 00:46:54,594 --> 00:46:57,684 saying, you know, feeling good about being able to help people. -781 +801 00:46:59,293 --> 00:47:01,364 Bekah: Yeah, for sure. That's so important. -782 +802 00:47:01,364 --> 00:47:02,224 Dan: I love it. -783 -00:47:03,773 --> 00:47:06,818 -Bekah: we have about one a time -for one more question. And, and +803 +00:47:03,773 --> 00:47:05,295 +Bekah: Todd we have about one, a +time for one more question. And, -784 +804 +00:47:05,295 --> 00:47:06,817 +and + +805 00:47:06,818 --> 00:47:07,958 I'd love to hear what you have to say about this. Cause I know -785 +806 00:47:07,958 --> 00:47:09,098 that -786 +807 00:47:09,099 --> 00:47:12,699 there still are companies out there that are, um, have some -787 +808 00:47:12,699 --> 00:47:18,398 pushback about paying for making things accessible, or they say -788 +809 00:47:18,398 --> 00:47:20,588 like, well, that's not our focus right now because we don't have -789 +810 00:47:20,588 --> 00:47:22,628 the time or the money to do that. How would you that -790 +811 00:47:22,628 --> 00:47:24,668 situation? Or, -791 +812 00:47:24,818 --> 00:47:26,228 you know, maybe if you were a developer consulting on that, -792 +813 00:47:26,228 --> 00:47:27,638 you -793 +814 00:47:27,639 --> 00:47:30,398 know, how would you kind of convince them that this, this -794 +815 00:47:30,398 --> 00:47:31,179 should be a priority? -795 +816 00:47:31,643 --> 00:47:36,463 Todd: Okay. Funny. You mentioned that. Cause I wrote a article, -796 +817 00:47:36,824 --> 00:47:42,164 uh, about that and it's on smashing magazine. So I'll get -797 +818 00:47:42,164 --> 00:47:46,981 that. Link to you as well. It's a very tricky slope sometimes. -798 +819 00:47:46,981 --> 00:47:51,798 Um, -799 +820 00:47:51,858 --> 00:47:55,608 you know, I've heard people for instance say, well, you don't -800 +821 00:47:55,608 --> 00:48:00,534 want to get sued. And that kind of. Perks up stakeholders ears -801 +822 00:48:00,534 --> 00:48:03,353 and says, oh, you know, well, I guess we're going to have to do -802 +823 00:48:03,353 --> 00:48:14,934 -this me. I use real world +this. Me. I use real world examples of, for instance, I ran -803 +824 00:48:14,934 --> 00:48:21,083 -into a stakeholder on a project +into a stakeholder on a project. and I said, we've got to make -804 +825 00:48:21,083 --> 00:48:24,054 sure accessibility is done from the very beginning of the -805 +826 00:48:24,054 --> 00:48:27,773 project. He turned to me and said, we don't have disabled -806 +827 00:48:27,773 --> 00:48:30,503 users. I in turn said to him, you're wearing eyeglasses, -807 +828 00:48:30,503 --> 00:48:33,233 that's -808 +829 00:48:33,233 --> 00:48:38,454 an assistive technology and he kind of perked up, but I'd, -809 +830 00:48:38,454 --> 00:48:40,928 hadn't convinced him. So the, you know, there's some people -810 +831 00:48:40,928 --> 00:48:43,402 that -811 +832 00:48:43,403 --> 00:48:47,934 can be very stubborn. So I went as far as to say, you know, -812 +833 00:48:48,534 --> 00:48:50,754 somebody's working. You know, using your product, they can -813 +834 00:48:50,754 --> 00:48:52,974 have -814 +835 00:48:52,974 --> 00:48:55,554 a broken arm, it could be a situational disability. They -815 +836 00:48:55,563 --> 00:48:58,224 could have a broken arm. They could be at home working with a -816 +837 00:48:58,224 --> 00:49:02,094 child on their lap. That's very fussy. I've been there a long -817 +838 00:49:02,094 --> 00:49:05,403 time ago. I know that feeling and I, you know, I know Bekah, -818 +839 00:49:05,403 --> 00:49:08,712 you're -819 +840 00:49:08,713 --> 00:49:10,753 a parent. I don't know if you're a parent, Dan, but. -820 +841 00:49:10,853 --> 00:49:11,253 -Dan: yeah. +Dan: hell yeah. -821 +842 00:49:11,753 --> 00:49:15,264 Todd: Yeah. Yeah. So you both know that, you know, you have a -822 +843 00:49:15,264 --> 00:49:18,563 child on your lap and they're fussy, you know, and you're -823 +844 00:49:18,563 --> 00:49:22,164 trying to answer an email or something. It's very difficult. -824 +845 00:49:22,164 --> 00:49:26,408 So, you know, getting teams on board is another thing too, -825 +846 00:49:26,408 --> 00:49:30,652 where -826 +847 00:49:30,684 --> 00:49:35,918 getting somebody. A person dedicated to doing accessibility -827 +848 00:49:35,918 --> 00:49:39,338 on the design side, on the development side, on the -828 +849 00:49:39,338 --> 00:49:45,009 marketing side. That helps too. But the main thing is getting -829 +850 00:49:45,009 --> 00:49:47,604 stakeholders on board. If you can get a stakeholder on board, -830 +851 00:49:47,604 --> 00:49:50,199 then -831 +852 00:49:50,318 --> 00:49:52,703 it should be much, much easier to get the entire organization -832 +853 00:49:52,703 --> 00:49:55,088 on -833 +854 00:49:55,088 --> 00:49:55,498 board. -834 +855 00:49:57,268 --> 00:49:58,433 Bekah: Yeah, that's great. I love that. You know, it all -835 +856 00:49:58,433 --> 00:49:59,598 comes down -836 +857 00:49:59,599 --> 00:50:03,228 to listening and being open-minded right. If we work -837 +858 00:50:03,228 --> 00:50:05,238 towards understanding each other, then we can all do a -838 +859 00:50:05,238 --> 00:50:07,248 whole lot -839 +860 00:50:07,248 --> 00:50:09,139 more to improve things for everyone. -840 +861 00:50:10,478 --> 00:50:15,188 Todd: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yep. I've heard it, -841 +862 00:50:15,998 --> 00:50:19,268 I've heard it before. We don't have the budget, you know, we'll -842 +863 00:50:19,268 --> 00:50:26,418 get to it after launch. Well, that brings me back to. Yep. If -843 +864 00:50:26,418 --> 00:50:28,998 you do everything from the beginning, you will have the -844 +865 00:50:28,998 --> 00:50:33,108 money for it and you know, it will be less stressed, so, yeah. -845 +866 00:50:33,148 --> 00:50:35,188 Dan: don't need to pay for it. Find the budget to pay for a -846 +867 00:50:35,188 --> 00:50:38,454 whole round of. You know, auditing and stuff. -847 +868 00:50:39,208 --> 00:50:45,298 Todd: Right. Yeah. And auditing. So I'll use an example of a -848 +869 00:50:45,298 --> 00:50:53,664 company that got sued and what they could have. What they could -849 +870 00:50:53,664 --> 00:50:55,643 have spent just with, you know, doing it from the beginning, -850 +871 00:50:55,643 --> 00:50:57,622 they -851 +872 00:50:57,623 --> 00:51:00,713 ended up paying seven figures for an audit. So that should -852 +873 00:51:00,713 --> 00:51:03,803 tell you -853 +874 00:51:03,804 --> 00:51:05,634 something about that process. -854 +875 00:51:06,099 --> 00:51:07,149 Bekah: Right. And it shouldn't ever have to come to that. -855 +876 00:51:07,149 --> 00:51:08,199 That's -856 +877 00:51:08,648 --> 00:51:10,989 -know, absolutely ridiculous, +know, absolutely ridiculous. -857 +878 00:51:11,494 --> 00:51:11,793 Todd: yeah. -858 +879 00:51:12,728 --> 00:51:14,768 Bekah: But I'm so glad that you were here today to talk us -859 +880 00:51:14,768 --> 00:51:17,228 through this and drop all of these great resources. And I -860 +881 00:51:17,228 --> 00:51:19,283 really hope that, you know, it helps people who are listening -861 +882 00:51:19,283 --> 00:51:21,338 to -862 +883 00:51:22,059 --> 00:51:24,878 work through the stuff. And to know that it's okay to ask -863 +884 00:51:24,878 --> 00:51:30,233 questions. And to Grow and learn more all the time. Um, so we'll -864 +885 00:51:30,233 --> 00:51:33,563 make sure that we drop all those links in the show notes. And -865 +886 00:51:33,713 --> 00:51:35,634 thanks so much for being here with us today. Todd -866 +887 00:51:36,474 --> 00:51:37,134 Todd: Well, thank you. -867 +888 00:51:37,173 --> 00:51:38,074 Dan: Really appreciate it too. -868 +889 00:51:38,483 --> 00:51:39,804 Todd: Yeah. Thank you both for having me -869 +890 00:51:40,844 --> 00:51:41,483 Bekah: Bye. -870 +891 00:51:41,824 --> 00:51:44,023 Dan: alright, bye Todd. -871 +892 00:51:44,684 --> 00:51:44,873 Todd: Bye -872 +893 00:51:46,646 --> 00:51:48,956 Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual -873 +894 00:51:48,956 --> 00:51:52,476 Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah -874 +895 00:51:52,496 --> 00:51:55,657 Hawrot Weigel, and was edited by Andy Bonjour at GoodDay -875 +896 00:51:55,677 --> 00:51:58,467 Communications. If you have questions or comments, you can -876 +897 00:51:58,467 --> 00:52:01,706 hit us up on Twitter at VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at -877 +898 00:52:01,706 --> 00:52:04,136 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up -878 +899 00:52:04,136 --> 00:52:06,566 for -879 +900 00:52:06,567 --> 00:52:08,907 our newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our -880 +901 00:52:08,907 --> 00:52:11,141 website at virtualcoffee.io. And of course join us for our -881 +902 00:52:11,141 --> 00:52:13,375 Virtual -882 +903 00:52:13,376 --> 00:52:16,226 Coffee Chats every Tuesday at 9 am Eastern and Thursday at -883 +904 00:52:16,226 --> 00:52:18,024 12 pm Eastern Please subscribe to our podcast and be -884 +905 00:52:18,024 --> 00:52:19,822 sure to -885 +906 00:52:19,822 --> 00:52:22,882 leave us a review. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next -886 +907 00:52:22,882 --> 00:52:23,213 week! \ No newline at end of file From cc6bc6746ee014129cae47e028212ac2429cefd7 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Chris Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 14:08:46 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 02/13] made changes to 4_2 --- episodes/4_2.srt | 1366 +++++++++++++++++++++++----------------------- 1 file changed, 691 insertions(+), 675 deletions(-) diff --git a/episodes/4_2.srt b/episodes/4_2.srt index c761692..d7d6bee 100644 --- a/episodes/4_2.srt +++ b/episodes/4_2.srt @@ -1,7 +1,7 @@ 1 00:00:05,203 --> 00:00:07,213 Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Hello, and -welcome to season four, episode +welcome to season 4, episode 2 2 00:00:07,213 --> 00:00:09,223 @@ -89,7 +89,7 @@ guidelines. Todd also hosts a 20 00:00:53,104 --> 00:00:55,804 -podcast called the Front End +podcast called Front End Nerdery, so once you're done 21 @@ -292,11 +292,11 @@ There's there's that too. Yeah. 63 00:02:58,683 --> 00:02:59,563 Any Raphael really? I'll take, -uh, take any version. Bekah: +uh, take any version. 64 00:02:59,563 --> 00:03:00,443 -Sounds +Bekah: Sounds 65 00:03:00,443 --> 00:03:02,203 @@ -434,7 +434,7 @@ cool. Todd's here. 94 00:04:26,093 --> 00:04:28,255 -Bekah: I just think it's-it's +Bekah: I just think it's- it's funny, like when, when new 95 @@ -635,7 +635,7 @@ anybody remembers those, "Choose 137 00:06:49,564 --> 00:06:50,786 Your Own Adventure" books from -way back in the day. I, I used +way back in the day. I- I used 138 00:06:50,786 --> 00:06:52,008 @@ -643,7 +643,7 @@ Dan: Oh yeah. 139 00:06:52,009 --> 00:06:54,454 -Todd: to +Todd: To 140 00:06:54,454 --> 00:07:01,863 @@ -921,7 +921,7 @@ example 199 00:09:47,673 --> 00:09:50,763 in a very rural area who has a -3g phone. And, you know, it's +3G phone. And, you know, it's 200 00:09:50,763 --> 00:09:53,853 @@ -1308,2957 +1308,2973 @@ team as an accessibility engineer. Uh, so I look forward 281 -00:15:32,677 --> 00:15:34,366 -to that. Yeah. Dan: honestly +00:15:32,677 --> 00:15:34,000 +to that. Yeah. 282 +00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:34,366 +Dan: Honestly + +283 00:15:34,866 --> 00:15:37,506 Bekah: Can you talk a little bit about what you'll be doing in -283 +284 00:15:37,506 --> 00:15:39,756 that role there? Maybe dive into a little bit of details. -284 +285 00:15:41,871 --> 00:15:46,251 Todd: Um, for right now, all I know is it's basically doing the -285 +286 00:15:46,251 --> 00:15:52,192 same thing I do now and that's auditing, um, their product for -286 +287 00:15:52,192 --> 00:16:04,251 their, uh, website. I know they use, they use React and I think -287 +288 00:16:04,282 --> 00:16:10,042 it was .Net. So that I'll be in that, um, environment. -288 +289 00:16:10,782 --> 00:16:13,182 Bekah: So like when you do an audit, where do you start with -289 +290 00:16:13,182 --> 00:16:13,272 that? -290 +291 00:16:14,961 --> 00:16:18,216 Todd: So when I do an audit, I do automated, uh, checks and -291 +292 00:16:18,216 --> 00:16:21,471 scans -292 +293 00:16:21,471 --> 00:16:27,772 first. So I use stuff like the -WAVE extension, um, the axe, I +WAVE extension, um, The Axe, I -293 +294 00:16:28,131 --> 00:16:32,601 now wait until the end to use -the axe-core extension in the +the Axe-Core extension in the -294 +295 00:16:32,601 --> 00:16:40,297 browser. Um, Things like, uh, there's a command line called -295 +296 00:16:40,297 --> 00:16:48,726 Pa11y. So it's PA one, one Y uh, there's that I use, um, does -296 +297 00:16:48,756 --> 00:16:55,057 Bookmarklets from Ian Lloyd and Paul J. Adam that I use to also -297 +298 00:16:55,326 --> 00:17:01,206 do checks. Um, Let's see what else? There's Microsoft -298 +299 00:17:01,236 --> 00:17:07,267 Accessibility Insights, which is a great tool to use. Um, what -299 +300 00:17:07,267 --> 00:17:15,517 else? And I said, axe, color, contrast checks. I use, um, the -300 +301 00:17:15,517 --> 00:17:19,626 Firefox accessibility dev tools, the accessibility panels and -301 +302 00:17:19,626 --> 00:17:22,911 those, and then I move on to, um, manual testing. So. mouse -302 +303 00:17:22,911 --> 00:17:26,196 only, -303 +304 00:17:26,961 --> 00:17:33,112 um, keyboard only I will do it, which goes back to color -304 +305 00:17:33,112 --> 00:17:35,842 contrast. I'll do the squint test. So I'll just look at the -305 +306 00:17:35,842 --> 00:17:39,352 site while I'm squinting at it and see if, you know, I can make -306 +307 00:17:39,352 --> 00:17:45,951 out anything cause, that I was taught not too long ago. So, um, -307 +308 00:17:46,551 --> 00:17:49,626 -and uh, screen readers, Dan: I -like that Todd: I will use +Dan: I like that -308 -00:17:49,626 --> 00:17:52,701 +309 +00:17:46,551 --> 00:17:49,000 +Todd: And uh, screen readers, I +will use + +310 +00:17:49,626 --> 00:17:52,000 screen readers. So for Mac -309 +311 00:17:52,701 --> 00:17:58,192 there's Voiceover. And it's best to use Voiceover in Safari -310 +312 00:17:58,221 --> 00:18:01,686 because the native, you know, Mac app and everything, um, and -311 +313 00:18:01,686 --> 00:18:05,151 -VDA +NVDA -312 +314 00:18:05,332 --> 00:18:10,071 and Jaws on a Windows. And, um, if, and it's very, very rare, -313 +315 00:18:10,071 --> 00:18:14,810 but -314 +316 00:18:14,811 --> 00:18:21,067 if somebody says, oh, you know, we have Linux users. So I will -315 +317 00:18:21,067 --> 00:18:22,761 test on what and it's called Orca for Linux and, um, yeah, -316 +318 00:18:22,761 --> 00:18:24,455 those -317 +319 00:18:24,456 --> 00:18:27,845 are -318 +320 00:18:27,846 --> 00:18:31,041 pretty much, uh, if I remember them all correctly, um, those -319 +321 00:18:31,041 --> 00:18:34,236 are -320 +322 00:18:34,237 --> 00:18:35,317 -the tools I use. ha ha. +the tools I use. Ha Ha. -321 +323 00:18:36,207 --> 00:18:38,366 Dan: That's. Yeah, that's awesome. It's very extensive. I -322 +324 00:18:38,366 --> 00:18:39,926 was just writing all them down so that -323 +325 00:18:39,997 --> 00:18:42,176 Bekah: So as I well, the link to those show notes. -324 +326 00:18:42,471 --> 00:18:44,136 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And so, so like day to day, I mean, I -325 +327 00:18:44,136 --> 00:18:45,801 know -326 +328 00:18:45,801 --> 00:18:47,661 you haven't started yet, but like in your, in your role, will -327 +329 00:18:47,661 --> 00:18:49,521 it be -328 +330 00:18:49,882 --> 00:18:53,541 mostly doing audits after the fact? Or like, will you be -329 +331 00:18:53,541 --> 00:18:54,876 interfacing with, you know, I'm not sure what they do, what -330 +332 00:18:54,876 --> 00:18:56,211 they, -331 +333 00:18:56,241 --> 00:18:59,092 what, what they make or anything like that, but you know, like -332 +334 00:18:59,092 --> 00:19:03,142 where in the process are you, are you, uh, doing like -333 +335 00:19:03,142 --> 00:19:06,336 accessibility? Uh, you know, helping the team with, with this -334 +336 00:19:06,336 --> 00:19:10,446 stuff, like, know, audits for me imply, and I know this isn't -335 +337 00:19:10,446 --> 00:19:13,537 always true, but when I think of it as something, oh, something's -336 +338 00:19:13,537 --> 00:19:15,172 done, now we do an audit on it. -You know what I mean? Todd: umm +You know what I mean? -337 +339 00:19:15,172 --> 00:19:16,807 Dan: but I was -338 +340 00:19:16,807 --> 00:19:18,936 wondering if, and I'm sure that's an important part. I was -339 +341 00:19:18,936 --> 00:19:21,066 wondering if there's, um, places earlier in the process where, -340 +342 00:19:21,066 --> 00:19:23,196 um, -341 +343 00:19:23,886 --> 00:19:28,386 where, you know, you're able to interface and like, you know, -342 +344 00:19:28,866 --> 00:19:31,747 make suggestions before it, you know, as opposed to like fixing -343 +345 00:19:31,747 --> 00:19:34,576 things, but like help build something you know, the first -344 +346 00:19:34,576 --> 00:19:34,666 time. -345 +347 00:19:34,666 --> 00:19:34,997 Todd: Right. Yeah, -346 +348 00:19:35,017 --> 00:19:35,696 Dan: Does that make sense? -347 +349 00:19:36,277 --> 00:19:42,946 Todd: yeah, yeah. Um, I'm, I'm sure it's going to be probably a -348 +350 00:19:42,946 --> 00:19:49,096 lot of both. Um, maybe there's existing things on the site, uh, -349 +351 00:19:49,636 --> 00:19:56,416 that need to be checked, um, components that may be being -350 +352 00:19:56,416 --> 00:20:00,561 worked on. We'll have to be checked. I mean, it's that way, -351 +353 00:20:00,561 --> 00:20:02,646 pretty much with any kind of audit. So I've had companies -352 +354 00:20:02,646 --> 00:20:04,731 come -353 +355 00:20:04,741 --> 00:20:07,946 to me and say, you know, we we've got somebody who emailed -354 +356 00:20:07,946 --> 00:20:11,151 us and -355 +357 00:20:11,152 --> 00:20:13,806 said, this isn't accessible, so we need a, an audit done and -356 +358 00:20:13,806 --> 00:20:16,460 I'll -357 +359 00:20:16,461 --> 00:20:20,287 go through the site and say, okay, I found all this. Here's -358 +360 00:20:20,287 --> 00:20:24,757 what you need to do to fix it. They'll fix it. That'll be after -359 +361 00:20:24,757 --> 00:20:28,146 the fact of course, I've had companies come in and ask me to -360 +362 00:20:28,146 --> 00:20:31,386 do consulting with their teams before the project starts to -361 +363 00:20:31,386 --> 00:20:34,626 make -362 +364 00:20:34,626 --> 00:20:37,567 sure that it gets done beforehand. Because when you do -363 +365 00:20:37,567 --> 00:20:40,836 an accessibility, when you, when you bring in accessibility from -364 +366 00:20:40,836 --> 00:20:45,146 the start of a project, it's so much easier and there's less, a -365 +367 00:20:45,146 --> 00:20:50,416 lot less stress, doing it from the very beginning, because when -366 +368 00:20:50,416 --> 00:20:53,957 you get to the end and you've got, everything is as accessible -367 +369 00:20:53,957 --> 00:20:58,336 as you can. And I'll add that nothing's a hundred percent -368 +370 00:20:58,336 --> 00:21:05,537 accessible. Um, it's, it's a lot easier on your teams. You know, -369 +371 00:21:05,567 --> 00:21:06,812 like I said, there's a lot less stress. You don't have to go -370 +372 00:21:06,812 --> 00:21:08,057 back -371 +373 00:21:08,057 --> 00:21:13,237 and scatter around trying to fix this, that, and the other thing -372 +374 00:21:13,656 --> 00:21:17,826 after the fact. So, um, and that's also where my advocacy -373 +375 00:21:17,826 --> 00:21:22,086 comes in is saying, okay, if you get this done from the start, -374 +376 00:21:22,866 --> 00:21:24,741 you're going to be, it's going to be so much easier and it's -375 +377 00:21:24,741 --> 00:21:26,616 going -376 +378 00:21:26,616 --> 00:21:27,741 to cost less money because you're not going back. It's -377 +379 00:21:27,741 --> 00:21:28,866 going -378 +380 00:21:28,866 --> 00:21:31,116 to cause -379 +381 00:21:31,446 --> 00:21:33,426 a lot less stress again. And, uh, those are the two main -380 +382 00:21:33,426 --> 00:21:35,406 things. -381 +383 00:21:35,767 --> 00:21:39,126 Um, but to answer the question, it's going to be a little bit of -382 +384 00:21:39,126 --> 00:21:40,746 both. I would think, because like I said, it's usually that -383 +385 00:21:40,746 --> 00:21:42,366 way at -384 +386 00:21:42,366 --> 00:21:45,906 the beginning, you know? Um, -385 +387 00:21:45,906 --> 00:21:47,346 Dan: Get something to a baseline first. -386 +388 00:21:47,366 --> 00:21:51,807 Todd: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and it's still really early in the -387 +389 00:21:51,807 --> 00:21:54,687 process, so I'm not too sure, but I know that there'll be a -388 +390 00:21:54,687 --> 00:21:57,567 lot of, -389 +391 00:21:57,626 --> 00:22:00,746 you know, checking to make sure everything's good. On the end -390 +392 00:22:00,746 --> 00:22:03,866 of, -391 +393 00:22:04,346 --> 00:22:07,047 you know, before we put this out, we need to make sure it's -392 +394 00:22:07,047 --> 00:22:09,416 accessible. So. yeah. -393 +395 00:22:10,311 --> 00:22:12,051 Bekah: As you've been working through this industry, do you -394 +396 00:22:12,051 --> 00:22:18,307 think. Is there one problem that you keep encountering over and -395 +397 00:22:18,307 --> 00:22:22,356 over, like stand out issues, things that people can just -396 +398 00:22:22,356 --> 00:22:25,656 really look at and say, all right, let's start here. -397 -00:22:26,352 --> 00:22:34,511 +399 +00:22:26,352 --> 00:22:30,431 Todd: Well, where do I begin? -It's it's a lot, but mainly it's +It's- it's a lot, but mainly -398 +400 +00:22:30,431 --> 00:22:34,510 +it's + +401 00:22:34,511 --> 00:22:42,311 color contrast. Okay. Um, that's the biggest one. Um, and, uh, -399 +402 00:22:43,846 --> 00:22:45,256 Keyboard accessibility is -another and I'lk throw in a +another and I'll throw in a -400 +403 00:22:45,256 --> 00:22:46,666 third -401 +404 00:22:46,666 --> 00:22:49,486 one. And -402 +405 00:22:49,487 --> 00:22:52,352 that being, uh, ALT text on images, the alternative text, -403 +406 00:22:52,352 --> 00:22:55,217 um, -404 +407 00:22:56,537 --> 00:23:07,217 I've had, you know, a lot of ALT text can be a tricky, um, uh, a -405 +408 00:23:07,217 --> 00:23:11,747 tricky thing because people think, well, I have this image. -406 +409 00:23:12,817 --> 00:23:19,477 And I need to really go into detail what that image is -407 +410 00:23:19,477 --> 00:23:21,711 conveying. If it's an informative image and you really -408 +411 00:23:21,711 --> 00:23:23,945 don't just a -409 +412 00:23:23,946 --> 00:23:31,146 short, you know, it's a purple flower in a field, um, is fine. -410 +413 00:23:31,146 --> 00:23:33,546 You don't have to go into, I've seen on Twitter because they -411 +414 00:23:33,546 --> 00:23:35,946 give -412 +415 00:23:35,946 --> 00:23:38,218 you a thousand characters for ALT text. And I've seen this. -413 +416 00:23:38,218 --> 00:23:40,490 I've -414 +417 00:23:40,491 --> 00:23:41,892 -seen alt text that long before. +seen ALT text that long before. -415 +418 00:23:42,031 --> 00:23:43,771 Bekah: I always wonder, like, I, I don't think I've written -416 +419 00:23:43,771 --> 00:23:45,511 enough -417 +420 00:23:45,541 --> 00:23:47,311 because I'm not even close to the 1000 and I have a thousand -418 +421 00:23:47,311 --> 00:23:49,081 to -419 +422 00:23:49,082 --> 00:23:49,531 write. -420 -00:23:49,696 --> 00:23:51,766 +423 +00:23:49,696 --> 00:23:50,731 Dan: Yeah. I always try to just -like, like, just say the joker. +like- like, just say the joke. -421 +424 +00:23:50,731 --> 00:23:51,766 +or whateve + +425 00:23:51,766 --> 00:23:53,836 I -422 +426 00:23:53,836 --> 00:23:54,961 mean, usually if I'm posting an image, it's a joke, you know, -423 +427 00:23:54,961 --> 00:23:56,086 but -424 +428 00:23:56,086 --> 00:24:00,136 like the shortest version of the joke is, you know, so I like -425 +429 00:24:00,136 --> 00:24:03,287 posted one today and it was just like guys saying thumbs up or -426 +430 00:24:03,287 --> 00:24:05,267 something like that, that, you know, you know what I mean? like -427 +431 00:24:05,416 --> 00:24:07,111 that seems that at least seems like usually enough. I don't -428 +432 00:24:07,111 --> 00:24:08,806 need -429 +433 00:24:08,807 --> 00:24:09,436 to give the whole, -430 +434 00:24:09,557 --> 00:24:11,656 Bekah: Sometimes I just don't post because I don't know how to -431 +435 00:24:11,656 --> 00:24:15,856 describe it. Like, well, I'm not really sure that I know how to -432 +436 00:24:15,856 --> 00:24:19,336 say capture what this is doing, so we'll go, we'll go for -433 +437 00:24:19,336 --> 00:24:19,936 something else. -434 +438 00:24:20,767 --> 00:24:24,297 Todd: There's a lot of debate around how long should it be? It -435 +439 00:24:24,297 --> 00:24:27,116 shouldn't be 180 characters. Should it be a certain amount of -436 +440 00:24:27,116 --> 00:24:31,646 words, but just as long as it conveys in a short succinct, -437 +441 00:24:32,636 --> 00:24:39,086 Sentence, I guess that's fine. Um, and of course you have some -438 +442 00:24:39,176 --> 00:24:43,287 images decorative that, ya know, -it needs an empty alt text. And +it needs an empty ALT text. And -439 +443 00:24:43,287 --> 00:24:47,876 that's a big one because I was just doing an audit and they had -440 +444 00:24:47,876 --> 00:24:53,547 decorative images, but no, alt, -no empty alt text, um, which is +no empty ALT text, um, which is -441 +445 00:24:53,547 --> 00:24:57,326 -just the alt equals, you know, +just the ALT equals, you know, quotes and it's, the quotes are -442 +446 00:24:57,326 --> 00:24:58,346 empty in between, -443 +447 00:24:58,961 --> 00:25:01,781 Bekah: Can you explain that? Cause that I had just recently -444 +448 00:25:01,781 --> 00:25:06,892 learned about that, but. Don't quite understand why that's the -445 +449 00:25:06,892 --> 00:25:07,471 standard. -446 +450 00:25:08,172 --> 00:25:11,757 Todd: So there's a, it tells a screen reader. There's an image -447 +451 00:25:11,757 --> 00:25:14,081 there, but it doesn't, it doesn't need it's decorative -448 +452 00:25:14,081 --> 00:25:16,405 basically. -449 +453 00:25:16,406 --> 00:25:19,237 So it just there's, there's no need to, describe -450 +454 00:25:19,636 --> 00:25:22,426 -Dan: ha what happens in a -screenwriter? If it runs into an +Dan: ha what happens in a screen +reader? If it runs into an -451 +455 00:25:22,426 --> 00:25:24,257 -image with no alt attribute at +image with no ALT attribute at all? -452 +456 00:25:25,297 --> 00:25:29,797 Todd: Uh, it skips over it. So you're loo the, the user is -453 +457 00:25:29,797 --> 00:25:31,326 losing information. So if there's something you're trying -454 +458 00:25:31,326 --> 00:25:32,855 to -455 +459 00:25:32,856 --> 00:25:37,567 convey, like let's use the, um, like, an infographic, for -456 +460 00:25:37,656 --> 00:25:40,491 -example, and there's no alt text +example, and there's no ALT text on it. That user that's using -457 +461 00:25:40,491 --> 00:25:43,326 the -458 +462 00:25:43,326 --> 00:25:47,356 screen reader is not gonna know that it's there. -459 +463 00:25:47,997 --> 00:25:52,836 Dan: Totally. Totally. And so in the case of a decorative image -460 +464 00:25:52,866 --> 00:25:56,317 where we don't need. It's okay. If his screen, you know, if it's -461 +465 00:25:56,317 --> 00:25:59,227 okay, if anybody skips over it, what do you know, what is the -462 +466 00:25:59,227 --> 00:26:01,446 tactical difference for a screen reader for a user on a screen -463 +467 00:26:01,446 --> 00:26:07,326 reader between empty, an image -with an like with a alt property +with an like with a ALT property -464 +468 00:26:07,326 --> 00:26:12,727 and just an empty string and an -image with alt you know, defined +image with ALT you know, defined -465 +469 00:26:12,727 --> 00:26:13,086 at all. -466 +470 00:26:15,707 --> 00:26:20,286 Todd: So. if it's okay. Let's use a logo. As an example, if -467 +471 00:26:20,286 --> 00:26:24,865 you have -468 +472 00:26:25,287 --> 00:26:31,257 -empty alt text on your logo, and +empty ALT text on your logo, and it's also linked, the screen -469 +473 00:26:31,257 --> 00:26:39,116 reader will read that link and you don't want that to read it. -470 +474 00:26:39,326 --> 00:26:45,382 You don't want it to. It doesn't really need to, I mean, there's -471 +475 00:26:45,382 --> 00:26:51,352 cases where somebody may say, yeah, I want the person to know -472 +476 00:26:51,352 --> 00:26:53,901 what the logo looks like, but if it's not really necessary, um, -473 +477 00:26:53,901 --> 00:26:56,450 no -474 +478 00:26:56,451 --> 00:27:04,342 -alt text, you know, it's the +ALT text, you know, it's the screen reader. Won't read -475 +479 00:27:04,342 --> 00:27:07,994 anything and. As far as I know. And I'll be the first to say, -476 +480 00:27:07,994 --> 00:27:11,646 I'm -477 +481 00:27:11,646 --> 00:27:13,986 not an expert by any means with screen readers, because this is -478 +482 00:27:13,986 --> 00:27:16,326 a -479 +483 00:27:16,326 --> 00:27:19,836 lot of different stuff. I've been learning lately, but to -480 +484 00:27:19,836 --> 00:27:23,346 mine, to -481 +485 00:27:23,346 --> 00:27:30,096 my recollection, anyways, an empty. So the end. So no alt -482 +486 00:27:30,096 --> 00:27:35,872 texts. Let me get this straight. -No, alt text, the URL will be +No, ALT text, the URL will be -483 +487 00:27:35,872 --> 00:27:37,311 read to the image. -484 +488 00:27:39,307 --> 00:27:40,507 Dan: Okay. Yeah. That's the big difference. All right. That's -485 +489 00:27:40,507 --> 00:27:41,707 the -486 +490 00:27:41,707 --> 00:27:42,126 part, I didn't know -487 +491 00:27:42,422 --> 00:27:43,321 Todd: Yes. Yup. -488 -00:27:43,356 --> 00:27:48,547 -Dan: no alt text at all, like -no, alt property defined. When a +492 +00:27:43,356 --> 00:27:48,000 +Dan: No ALT text at all, like +no, ALT property defined. When a -489 +493 00:27:48,547 --> 00:27:50,797 screen reader is reading it, it'll come through normal texts -490 +494 00:27:50,826 --> 00:27:52,506 and then it'll just read like, blah, blah, blah dot JPEG. -491 +495 00:27:52,506 --> 00:27:54,186 -Todd: Yes Dan: Right. +Todd: Yes -492 +496 00:27:54,707 --> 00:27:55,686 -Okay. That's +Dan: Right Okay. That's it -493 +497 00:27:55,721 --> 00:27:59,892 Todd: And then the, the empty -alt is silent. So that's. +ALT is silent. So that's. -494 +498 00:27:59,961 --> 00:28:01,191 -Dan: it'll that tells it to skip +Dan: It'll that tells it to skip right over it, which is you -495 +499 00:28:01,191 --> 00:28:02,421 want. -496 +500 00:28:02,422 --> 00:28:04,432 Sometimes like, sometimes that is the preferred thing or like -497 +501 00:28:04,432 --> 00:28:06,442 the -498 +502 00:28:06,442 --> 00:28:09,652 decorative image where it's a background image or something -499 +503 00:28:09,652 --> 00:28:12,832 like that, or, background, but like, you know, sometimes it's -500 +504 00:28:12,832 --> 00:28:14,872 just used for decoration. Doesn't need to convey actually -501 +505 00:28:14,872 --> 00:28:17,352 information. and so in those cases, putting an empty, alt -502 +506 00:28:17,352 --> 00:28:19,832 like -503 +507 00:28:19,832 --> 00:28:24,862 -alt equals, you know, empty +ALT equals, you know, empty string. Is is actually very good -504 +508 00:28:24,862 --> 00:28:28,521 and much like very good for accessibility because otherwise -505 +509 00:28:28,521 --> 00:28:32,632 they're going to see probably a very long URL with dot JPEG, -506 +510 00:28:32,991 --> 00:28:34,311 which means nothing to them. Right. -507 +511 00:28:34,382 --> 00:28:35,491 Todd: Yes. Exactly. -508 +512 00:28:35,721 --> 00:28:38,211 Dan: Oh, that's great. Um, that's one of those things that. -509 +513 00:28:38,211 --> 00:28:40,701 And -510 +514 00:28:40,701 --> 00:28:44,541 I've seen a lot of people. This is a separate topic, like that, -511 +515 00:28:44,541 --> 00:28:48,711 that little, like, pick that little bit, just, just even just -512 +516 00:28:48,711 --> 00:28:52,642 -Alt getting like your head +ALT getting like your head wrapped around how to deal with -513 +517 00:28:52,682 --> 00:28:56,932 -alt, alt texts. Um, like you +alt, ALT texts. Um, like you said, makes can make a huge -514 +518 00:28:56,932 --> 00:29:00,501 difference for accessibility making a for your users. oh, -515 +519 00:29:00,501 --> 00:29:01,132 that's really cool. -516 +520 00:29:02,376 --> 00:29:03,636 Bekah: And you were talking about one of the big problems -517 +521 00:29:03,636 --> 00:29:04,896 being -518 +522 00:29:04,896 --> 00:29:09,727 color contrast. And that seems like something that could be -519 +523 00:29:09,727 --> 00:29:15,636 pretty simple to identify with a Lighthouse audit. Um, can you -520 +524 00:29:15,636 --> 00:29:18,606 explain what a Lighthouse audit is? And if you're like, that's -521 +525 00:29:18,606 --> 00:29:21,787 not the way to go. This other method is better. Um, I would -522 +526 00:29:21,787 --> 00:29:22,207 love to hear as well. -523 +527 00:29:23,862 --> 00:29:26,786 Todd: So, I mean, I've used Lighthouse before. I don't -524 +528 00:29:26,786 --> 00:29:29,710 really -525 +529 00:29:29,711 --> 00:29:32,186 rely on lighthouse. Lighthouse -runs off of axe-core and which +runs off of Axe-core and which -526 +530 00:29:32,186 --> 00:29:34,661 is -527 +531 00:29:34,662 --> 00:29:42,132 great, but I don't think it really gets to the root of every -528 +532 00:29:42,521 --> 00:29:49,301 issue. And it really can't. Uh, plus you have false positives, -529 +533 00:29:49,301 --> 00:29:52,692 which is, you know, something, it, for example, I was just -530 +534 00:29:52,692 --> 00:29:55,932 talking about this on the, in the, in the Slack, uh, Virtual -531 +535 00:29:55,932 --> 00:29:58,699 Coffee Slack. False positives for color contrast, you know, -532 +536 00:29:58,699 --> 00:30:01,466 I've -533 +537 00:30:01,467 --> 00:30:04,737 come across instances where it will flag color, contrast -534 +538 00:30:04,737 --> 00:30:08,007 errors, -535 +539 00:30:08,007 --> 00:30:13,676 but the color contrast is far exceeds the 4.5 to one ratio. So -536 +540 00:30:14,126 --> 00:30:16,767 I don't really rely on Lighthouse. I mean, it's a good -537 +541 00:30:16,767 --> 00:30:18,701 tool. Don't get me wrong because there's that performance piece -538 +542 00:30:18,701 --> 00:30:20,635 to -539 +543 00:30:20,636 --> 00:30:25,693 it that I really, really like, uh, using and, um, As far as, -540 +544 00:30:25,693 --> 00:30:30,750 you -541 +545 00:30:30,751 --> 00:30:34,301 know, it's a good tool, don't get me wrong, but I use, and I -542 +546 00:30:34,301 --> 00:30:37,851 used -543 +547 00:30:37,852 --> 00:30:40,432 to use it. I used to use it myself. I mean, I used it on my -544 +548 00:30:40,432 --> 00:30:42,801 site and was like, yeah, one hundreds. I got one hundreds -545 +549 00:30:42,801 --> 00:30:46,342 across the board and you know, that, that virtual confetti -546 +550 00:30:46,342 --> 00:30:53,471 flying everywhere. But, um, the tools that I use would be, um, -547 +551 00:30:56,067 --> 00:30:59,711 It's a contrast hyphen ratio.com, which is Lea Verou, -548 +552 00:30:59,711 --> 00:31:03,355 uh, color -549 +553 00:31:03,356 --> 00:31:06,716 contrast site. I also use, um, the, let me look, I have it on -550 +554 00:31:06,716 --> 00:31:10,076 my -551 +555 00:31:10,076 --> 00:31:12,836 other machine here, the color contrast analyzer. And that is -552 +556 00:31:12,836 --> 00:31:15,596 by -553 +557 00:31:15,747 --> 00:31:18,926 The Paciello Group. So Steven Faulkner has based on the -554 +558 00:31:18,926 --> 00:31:22,105 Windows -555 +559 00:31:22,106 --> 00:31:24,131 version, the Mac iOS version was developed by somebody else. Uh, -556 +560 00:31:24,131 --> 00:31:26,156 I -557 +561 00:31:26,156 --> 00:31:33,926 use that, that tool as well. Um, and I will provide, uh, the link -558 +562 00:31:33,926 --> 00:31:34,497 to that. -559 +563 00:31:35,414 --> 00:31:37,419 Bekah: This great, I'm like really looking forward, it could -560 +564 00:31:37,419 --> 00:31:40,598 diving into a lot of these resources that you are dropping -561 +565 00:31:40,598 --> 00:31:43,043 right now. Cause I think sometimes it's hard to know -562 +566 00:31:43,043 --> 00:31:45,488 where -563 +567 00:31:45,489 --> 00:31:51,068 to start. And, I think that's just a problem with teaching -564 +568 00:31:51,429 --> 00:31:54,413 developers in general. There's not a focus on it. It's not -565 +569 00:31:54,413 --> 00:31:57,397 built -566 +570 00:31:57,429 --> 00:32:07,118 into most curriculums and, um, at all. And so there's a lack of -567 +571 00:32:07,118 --> 00:32:11,773 focus, I think, as a result of that. And then not knowing where -568 +572 00:32:11,773 --> 00:32:16,114 to start, or if you're with a company that doesn't look at -569 +573 00:32:16,114 --> 00:32:18,668 those things, then I think it can be, you can find yourself a -570 +574 00:32:18,668 --> 00:32:21,222 while -571 +575 00:32:21,223 --> 00:32:27,223 down the path and and not know what you should be identifying, -572 +576 00:32:27,223 --> 00:32:30,374 how you should be approaching this. And so the more that we -573 +577 00:32:30,374 --> 00:32:35,084 talk about it, I think the better, um, where do you think -574 +578 00:32:35,534 --> 00:32:39,044 people could get started if they want to learn more about -575 +579 00:32:39,044 --> 00:32:39,403 accessiblity? -576 +580 00:32:40,094 --> 00:32:44,378 Todd: So the W three C has a great, um, intro to -577 +581 00:32:44,378 --> 00:32:48,662 accessibility -578 +582 00:32:48,692 --> 00:32:52,982 class, which I believe is still free. And yeah, it's an -579 +583 00:32:53,042 --> 00:32:55,947 Introduction to Web Accessibility on edex.org. And, -580 +584 00:32:55,947 --> 00:32:58,852 uh, I took that -581 +585 00:32:58,853 --> 00:33:01,450 class even. Um, and it was it's great. Uh, you can pace -582 +586 00:33:01,450 --> 00:33:04,047 yourself. -583 +587 00:33:04,528 --> 00:33:07,092 Doesn't have to be real fast is no, you know, there's no due -584 +588 00:33:07,092 --> 00:33:09,656 date -585 +589 00:33:09,657 --> 00:33:11,907 or anything. There's a free version. If you want a -586 +590 00:33:11,907 --> 00:33:17,877 certificate, you got to pay a certain amount. Um, it's like if -587 +591 00:33:17,877 --> 00:33:21,238 you put in four to five hours a week, it's like for four weeks -588 +592 00:33:21,238 --> 00:33:27,373 long, uh, to do. It gives a good overview of, excuse me, -589 +593 00:33:27,373 --> 00:33:30,868 accessibility, and you know, some of the guidelines there's, -590 +594 00:33:30,868 --> 00:33:34,363 um, a -591 +595 00:33:34,363 --> 00:33:40,542 lot of good information on the web, uh, and, uh, even have to -592 +596 00:33:40,542 --> 00:33:44,532 pitch Nobility's website and their blog. They go over some of -593 +597 00:33:44,532 --> 00:33:50,337 the, uh, WCAG guidelines and accessibility is also, I want to -594 +598 00:33:50,337 --> 00:33:52,707 make this clear, accessibility is more than just WCAG -595 +599 00:33:52,707 --> 00:33:55,077 guidelines. -596 +600 00:33:55,438 --> 00:34:01,647 Um, it's also about inclusive design as well. Um, making sure, -597 +601 00:34:01,917 --> 00:34:07,048 you know, certain demographics aren't, you know, kept out that, -598 +602 00:34:07,048 --> 00:34:12,117 that everybody's included, um, hence the name inclusive design. -599 +603 00:34:12,447 --> 00:34:21,768 Um, but, um, Some other, um, let's see. That's a good -600 +604 00:34:21,768 --> 00:34:24,797 question. Cause there's so much, I mean, I guess, you know, a -601 +605 00:34:24,797 --> 00:34:31,728 search would come up with a lot of different things. WebAIM.org -602 +606 00:34:31,797 --> 00:34:36,027 has some good stuff. As far as accessibility, learning -603 +607 00:34:36,027 --> 00:34:43,018 accessibility, um, level access does, uh, let's see who else. -604 +608 00:34:44,327 --> 00:34:47,310 TPGI has good stuff. So there's, there's a lot out there that, -605 +609 00:34:47,310 --> 00:34:50,293 you -606 +610 00:34:50,293 --> 00:34:54,913 know, people can find on, you know, even there's even like -607 +611 00:34:54,913 --> 00:35:00,943 courses on, I guess Udemy and platforms like that as well. -608 +612 00:35:03,853 --> 00:35:06,613 -Bekah: So ki, this has kind of +Bekah: So ki- this has kind of been your focus the entire time -609 +613 00:35:06,613 --> 00:35:09,373 you've -610 +614 00:35:09,373 --> 00:35:15,373 been working in tech. Was there a reason that you went down this -611 +615 00:35:15,373 --> 00:35:17,877 path or, or something that kind of inspired this journey? Or -612 +616 00:35:17,877 --> 00:35:20,381 have -613 +617 00:35:20,382 --> 00:35:22,463 you just always been interested in it? -614 +618 00:35:24,333 --> 00:35:30,722 Todd: Uh, it started when a couple of family members, I have -615 +619 00:35:30,722 --> 00:35:36,603 like three family members that have disabilities, um, two have -616 +620 00:35:36,603 --> 00:35:45,012 motor skill disabilities, one visual and. Seeing the looks of -617 +621 00:35:45,012 --> 00:35:48,342 frustration on their faces when they're trying to access -618 +622 00:35:48,342 --> 00:35:52,842 something that's inaccessible on the web really got me motivated -619 +623 00:35:52,842 --> 00:36:01,362 in the beginning and carries me to this day. Really. Um, I kind -620 +624 00:36:01,362 --> 00:36:08,916 of towards like 2018, 2019 was kind of like. I guess slacking -621 +625 00:36:08,916 --> 00:36:11,631 off a little bit with my accessibility, but I get -622 +626 00:36:11,631 --> 00:36:14,346 together -623 +627 00:36:14,347 --> 00:36:17,197 with our friend, Chris DeMars in Burlington, Vermont. There was -624 +628 00:36:17,197 --> 00:36:20,047 a, -625 +629 00:36:20,106 --> 00:36:27,811 there was a conference and. You know, he gave a great talk and -626 +630 00:36:27,992 --> 00:36:32,972 that really lit the fire again. So there's been a really, it's -627 +631 00:36:32,972 --> 00:36:38,911 been like laser, like focus for me as far as, since then. And, -628 +632 00:36:38,942 --> 00:36:41,896 um, just the looks of frustration on faces of people -629 +633 00:36:41,896 --> 00:36:44,850 that I've -630 +634 00:36:44,851 --> 00:36:49,831 seen, trying to access something that's inaccessible on the web. -631 +635 00:36:50,461 --> 00:36:58,416 Yeah. It's just, it's very, um, the word I'm looking for here, -632 +636 00:36:58,956 --> 00:37:04,086 very, uh, it hits home. It really, you know, being that I -633 +637 00:37:04,086 --> 00:37:12,186 try to advocate for people that don't have a voice. And, um, I -634 +638 00:37:12,186 --> 00:37:17,452 think as, as accessibility, professional, We all, do we try -635 +639 00:37:17,452 --> 00:37:20,992 to advocate for those people? Um, especially lately with -636 +640 00:37:20,992 --> 00:37:24,532 certain, I -637 +641 00:37:24,532 --> 00:37:28,641 will use it in quotes, accessibility, overlays, for -638 +642 00:37:28,641 --> 00:37:35,331 instance, but, um, yeah, that's basically where it all started -639 +643 00:37:35,331 --> 00:37:37,956 was just those family members and friends and just seeing -640 +644 00:37:37,956 --> 00:37:40,581 people, -641 +645 00:37:40,731 --> 00:37:45,711 uh, yeah. Th the frustration and the point where they're ready to -642 +646 00:37:45,711 --> 00:37:46,282 give up. -643 +647 00:37:47,967 --> 00:37:53,067 Bekah: Yeah, I, was just with Chris last week. Um, he spoke at -644 +648 00:37:53,336 --> 00:37:58,117 KCDC. He along with Cass Ferris and they did an accessibility -645 +649 00:37:58,137 --> 00:38:00,777 talk. That was the first time I got to see him speak in person. -646 +650 00:38:01,422 --> 00:38:05,052 It was really great because they both come at it with a lot of -647 +651 00:38:05,052 --> 00:38:07,316 passion and examples. And I think for so many of us, we have -648 +652 00:38:07,316 --> 00:38:09,580 a -649 +653 00:38:09,581 --> 00:38:13,001 general sense of what accessibility is, but we don't -650 +654 00:38:13,001 --> 00:38:18,876 have that broader sense of, uh, you know, it might be. Um, there -651 +655 00:38:18,876 --> 00:38:23,257 might be a disability that you can't see, or it might be a -652 +656 00:38:23,257 --> 00:38:25,132 temporary disability or a mental health challenge that somebody -653 +657 00:38:25,132 --> 00:38:27,007 is -654 +658 00:38:27,007 --> 00:38:30,126 going through and all of those things can impact what -655 +659 00:38:30,126 --> 00:38:34,177 accessibility looks like. And if you really look at the people -656 +660 00:38:34,177 --> 00:38:39,681 around you, you for sure know someone that has one of those -657 +661 00:38:39,681 --> 00:38:43,492 challenges or, or you have one yourself. And so, you know, -658 +662 00:38:43,521 --> 00:38:46,192 opening up the conversations about this, you know, like you -659 +663 00:38:46,192 --> 00:38:50,751 have in, in like Chris and Cass have, I think is so important to -660 +664 00:38:50,961 --> 00:38:53,902 really making change in, in tech overall. -661 +665 00:38:55,661 --> 00:38:58,871 Todd: Yeah, I, you, know, you you brought up invisible. -662 +666 00:39:01,766 --> 00:39:06,297 Disabilities. I have migraine headaches. Uh, I get them when -663 +667 00:39:06,297 --> 00:39:11,306 something sets off, if there's a website, I visit that as, you -664 +668 00:39:11,306 --> 00:39:17,306 know, animation or motion that really it's too much. And it's -665 +669 00:39:17,336 --> 00:39:20,757 triggers a migraine. I mean, there's all that stuff that you -666 +670 00:39:20,757 --> 00:39:26,541 mentioned and. Yeah. It's, you know, uh, Chris is great. You -667 +671 00:39:26,541 --> 00:39:33,231 know, I, I I've seen him talk, you know, virtually and then -668 +672 00:39:33,831 --> 00:39:37,132 before the pandemic and everything, and we've gotten to -669 +673 00:39:37,132 --> 00:39:39,306 know each other and he, you know, he does a great job -670 +674 00:39:39,306 --> 00:39:41,480 advocating. -671 +675 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,369 Bekah: yeah. I think, you know, even so a couple of years ago I -672 +676 00:39:44,369 --> 00:39:48,090 was diagnosed with ADHD and it's interesting how much I didn't -673 +677 00:39:48,090 --> 00:39:50,370 realize that impacts the things that I interact with and the -674 +678 00:39:50,370 --> 00:39:52,650 ways -675 +679 00:39:52,650 --> 00:39:56,965 that I interact with things. Maybe this is just a personal -676 +680 00:39:56,965 --> 00:39:59,905 problem, but this is the conversation between Discord and -677 +681 00:39:59,905 --> 00:40:04,135 Slack. For me, like I walk into Discord, I don't walk in there. -678 +682 00:40:04,494 --> 00:40:06,684 Um, I open up Discord and it's immediately just overwhelming -679 +683 00:40:06,684 --> 00:40:08,874 and -680 +684 00:40:08,875 --> 00:40:11,514 I don't know where to go from there. And then I just like -681 +685 00:40:11,844 --> 00:40:15,655 slowly back out the door, right? Like there's too much going on -682 +686 00:40:15,655 --> 00:40:16,135 for me. -683 +687 00:40:16,356 --> 00:40:19,657 Todd: Yeah. That information overload happens to me as well. -684 +688 00:40:19,717 --> 00:40:28,811 Um, it's like Slack and, uh, Discord and. There's yeah, I was -685 +689 00:40:28,811 --> 00:40:32,171 on, I was watching a, uh, Twitch stream yesterday and the chat -686 +690 00:40:32,171 --> 00:40:35,531 was -687 +691 00:40:35,532 --> 00:40:39,882 going off and I was just like, I just, I can't, I want to be able -688 +692 00:40:39,882 --> 00:40:44,112 to kind of read the chat and I can't because you know it, yeah. -689 +693 00:40:44,121 --> 00:40:46,481 The information overload is a big thing too. -690 +694 00:40:47,889 --> 00:40:52,929 Bekah: So I, you know, I think, um, Your background, you talked -691 +695 00:40:52,929 --> 00:40:57,400 about your journey through this and it seems like you've been -692 +696 00:40:57,429 --> 00:40:59,679 mostly self-taught then, is that right? -693 +697 00:41:00,586 --> 00:41:03,248 Todd: Yeah. Um, I started, when I picked up that Commodore 64 -694 +698 00:41:03,248 --> 00:41:05,910 user -695 +699 00:41:05,911 --> 00:41:09,841 manual. And just, I love to read and I read that. I had purchased -696 +700 00:41:09,841 --> 00:41:13,771 a -697 +701 00:41:13,771 --> 00:41:17,821 book. It was a Learn HTML in 21 days. And it was like a big, -698 +702 00:41:17,821 --> 00:41:21,871 huge -699 +703 00:41:21,902 --> 00:41:26,851 thick phone book, like manual. And I read through that. That's -700 +704 00:41:26,851 --> 00:41:33,242 how I actually made my first website. Uh, not that I put it -701 +705 00:41:33,242 --> 00:41:39,632 out on the web or anything, but then I. Um, I graduated from -702 +706 00:41:39,632 --> 00:41:41,761 there on, I went to Geo Cities and Angel Fire and Tripod and -703 +707 00:41:41,761 --> 00:41:43,890 all -704 +708 00:41:43,891 --> 00:41:46,922 those websites, if you remember those websites -705 +709 00:41:46,942 --> 00:41:47,612 Dan: oh. Yeah. -706 +710 00:41:47,972 --> 00:41:52,411 Todd: and all the great, you know, lime green and pastel and, -707 +711 00:41:52,742 --> 00:41:56,559 you know, fluorescent colors. Um, and then, you know, It's -708 +712 00:41:56,559 --> 00:42:00,376 been a -709 +713 00:42:00,376 --> 00:42:04,847 learning process the entire time and I love to learn. So it's one -710 +714 00:42:04,847 --> 00:42:07,456 of those things where if I can pick up something in a Slack -711 +715 00:42:07,876 --> 00:42:13,427 group or on a Discord channel, that's great. I've, you know, I -712 +716 00:42:13,427 --> 00:42:19,947 keep learning every day and, you know, learning. Lately it's been -713 +717 00:42:19,947 --> 00:42:23,936 learning the intricacies of the WCAG guidelines because there's -714 +718 00:42:23,936 --> 00:42:26,756 so much there. Um, and being able to, and I'm grateful for -715 +719 00:42:26,756 --> 00:42:29,576 this -716 +720 00:42:29,606 --> 00:42:36,177 being able to work on the next, I guess, version, which is 3.0, -717 +721 00:42:36,987 --> 00:42:41,097 which is a few years down the road has been a learning process -718 +722 00:42:41,097 --> 00:42:43,091 as well. And being a member of the W3C is too, and being in -719 +723 00:42:43,091 --> 00:42:45,085 those -720 +724 00:42:45,086 --> 00:42:49,902 meetings and. We're learning so much from a great group of -721 +725 00:42:49,902 --> 00:42:50,322 people. -722 +726 00:42:50,942 --> 00:42:52,547 Bekah: Yeah, that's awesome. I love that idea of just -723 +727 00:42:52,547 --> 00:42:54,152 consistent -724 +728 00:42:54,152 --> 00:42:55,636 learning and being open to learning all of the time, -725 +729 00:42:55,636 --> 00:42:57,120 because -726 +730 00:42:57,121 --> 00:43:02,161 I think no matter what part of tech or, or any industry really -727 +731 00:43:02,161 --> 00:43:05,612 that you're in the being open to learning new things and talking -728 +732 00:43:05,612 --> 00:43:07,697 through things with other people. and understanding is, -729 +733 00:43:07,697 --> 00:43:09,782 you know, -730 +734 00:43:09,782 --> 00:43:14,251 that that's what growing is about. That's what is important -731 +735 00:43:14,251 --> 00:43:14,882 to what you're doing. -732 +736 00:43:18,112 --> 00:43:23,001 Todd: Yeah. It's, you know, even I've, you know, learned, I -733 +737 00:43:23,001 --> 00:43:26,722 learned on Twitter as well, you know, I see something, a link to -734 +738 00:43:26,722 --> 00:43:30,262 an article or something and I check it out and it's like, oh, -735 +739 00:43:30,291 --> 00:43:37,981 well, you know, Today I learned, you know, and you know, I it's -736 +740 00:43:38,041 --> 00:43:40,591 it's, you know, there was a quote and I'll try to find that -737 +741 00:43:40,591 --> 00:43:43,141 quote -738 +742 00:43:43,172 --> 00:43:49,532 because I love the quote. Um, it had something to do with, uh, -739 +743 00:43:49,652 --> 00:43:57,601 doing something. Yeah, right there. Um, "there are three -740 +744 00:43:57,601 --> 00:44:03,976 things. Everyone should do every day. Number one is laugh. Number -741 +745 00:44:03,976 --> 00:44:09,407 two is think, spend some time in thought number three, you should -742 +746 00:44:09,407 --> 00:44:11,221 have your emotions, you to tears. If you laugh, think and -743 +747 00:44:11,221 --> 00:44:13,035 cry, -744 +748 00:44:13,036 --> 00:44:15,256 that's a heck of a day." And that was just like the best -745 +749 00:44:15,256 --> 00:44:17,476 quote. I -746 +750 00:44:17,476 --> 00:44:21,916 think I've seen it in a long, long time. I even add to that -747 +751 00:44:21,916 --> 00:44:23,137 learning one thing a day. -748 +752 00:44:23,873 --> 00:44:27,838 Bekah: Yeah. I love that so much. I didn't think, you know, -749 +753 00:44:27,869 --> 00:44:30,133 learning things on Twitter for me has been really big as well. -750 +754 00:44:30,133 --> 00:44:32,397 Even -751 +755 00:44:32,398 --> 00:44:36,239 when somebody just has a small portion of a tweet at, for some -752 +756 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,329 reason, it sticks in my mind better than if I read a whole -753 +757 00:44:39,329 --> 00:44:42,418 article on that thing. And I think maybe because there's some -754 +758 00:44:42,418 --> 00:44:44,278 type of personal connection there. Oh, I remember that -755 +759 00:44:44,278 --> 00:44:46,138 person -756 +760 00:44:46,139 --> 00:44:48,929 said this one thing and it, you know, it might be some type of -757 +761 00:44:49,199 --> 00:44:53,338 coding tip or whatever, but I think that just be just sharing -758 +762 00:44:53,338 --> 00:44:57,568 that knowledge or, or it's Hey, I know that I could ask that -759 +763 00:44:57,568 --> 00:45:02,849 person. That question can be really helpful in finding the -760 +764 00:45:02,849 --> 00:45:07,768 answers to things or having more confidence in, in being, being -761 +765 00:45:07,798 --> 00:45:09,298 able to ask questions. -762 +766 00:45:10,208 --> 00:45:17,648 Todd: Yeah. It's it's, you know, I use Twitter as a tool to say, -763 +767 00:45:18,699 --> 00:45:22,358 you know, oh, you, you mentioned something about the new, you -764 +768 00:45:22,358 --> 00:45:25,388 know, um, whatever coming, coming down the line. I've got a -765 +769 00:45:25,388 --> 00:45:28,418 couple -766 +770 00:45:28,418 --> 00:45:33,349 of questions for you. Um, you know, Hey, can I, you know, DM -767 +771 00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:36,998 you, I got a question I need to ask and it reaching out to -768 +772 00:45:36,998 --> 00:45:40,869 somebody to, or to the person that, you know, had that tweet -769 +773 00:45:41,259 --> 00:45:44,243 it's, uh, and, and Mos you know, I don't think I've ever had -770 +774 00:45:44,243 --> 00:45:47,227 anybody -771 +775 00:45:47,228 --> 00:45:48,743 go no I don't want to tell you the answer or anything like -772 +776 00:45:48,743 --> 00:45:50,258 that. -773 +777 00:45:50,438 --> 00:45:55,418 So, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's always been, you know, Hey, you -774 +778 00:45:55,418 --> 00:46:00,074 know, I've got this question. People are more than, you know, -775 +779 00:46:00,943 --> 00:46:04,304 more than welcome to, to answer those questions. -776 +780 00:46:05,634 --> 00:46:07,943 Bekah: Yeah. And I think that's so big, especially when we're -777 +781 00:46:07,943 --> 00:46:11,244 talking about this topic. If you don't know it is okay to ask -778 +782 00:46:11,244 --> 00:46:13,208 somebody, Or ask someone just to direct you, you know, I'm -779 +783 00:46:13,208 --> 00:46:15,172 getting -780 +784 00:46:15,173 --> 00:46:17,003 started in this. It's not been a focus. How, how do I get -781 +785 00:46:17,003 --> 00:46:18,833 started? -782 +786 00:46:18,833 --> 00:46:20,798 What do I do? And dropped a lot of great resources here, but, -783 +787 00:46:20,798 --> 00:46:22,763 you -784 +788 00:46:22,764 --> 00:46:26,333 know, I think in, in every place and space we should, we should -785 +789 00:46:26,333 --> 00:46:27,893 know that it is okay to ask about these things. And it's -786 +790 00:46:27,893 --> 00:46:29,453 good to do -787 +791 00:46:29,454 --> 00:46:29,813 that. -788 +792 00:46:30,429 --> 00:46:32,393 Todd: Yeah, definitely. You know, I tell people, you know, -789 +793 00:46:32,393 --> 00:46:34,357 if you -790 +794 00:46:34,358 --> 00:46:35,738 have a question about accessibility, I'll do my best -791 +795 00:46:35,738 --> 00:46:37,118 to -792 +796 00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:38,903 answer. If I can't answer it, I will find somebody that can, or -793 +797 00:46:38,903 --> 00:46:40,687 I -794 +798 00:46:40,688 --> 00:46:42,103 will look it up and see if I can get you the answer, because -795 +799 00:46:42,103 --> 00:46:43,518 it's, -796 +800 00:46:43,518 --> 00:46:45,490 it's, it's that little, you know, it's that being helpful? -797 +801 00:46:45,490 --> 00:46:47,462 And -798 +802 00:46:47,463 --> 00:46:50,364 again, making, you know, making sure that person has that -799 +803 00:46:50,364 --> 00:46:54,594 information for me anyways, is, is big. And, you know, just -800 +804 00:46:54,594 --> 00:46:57,684 saying, you know, feeling good about being able to help people. -801 +805 00:46:59,293 --> 00:47:01,364 Bekah: Yeah, for sure. That's so important. -802 +806 00:47:01,364 --> 00:47:02,224 Dan: I love it. -803 +807 00:47:03,773 --> 00:47:05,295 Bekah: Todd we have about one, a time for one more question. And, -804 +808 00:47:05,295 --> 00:47:06,817 and -805 +809 00:47:06,818 --> 00:47:07,958 I'd love to hear what you have to say about this. Cause I know -806 +810 00:47:07,958 --> 00:47:09,098 that -807 +811 00:47:09,099 --> 00:47:12,699 there still are companies out there that are, um, have some -808 +812 00:47:12,699 --> 00:47:18,398 pushback about paying for making things accessible, or they say -809 +813 00:47:18,398 --> 00:47:20,588 like, well, that's not our focus right now because we don't have -810 +814 00:47:20,588 --> 00:47:22,628 the time or the money to do that. How would you that -811 +815 00:47:22,628 --> 00:47:24,668 situation? Or, -812 +816 00:47:24,818 --> 00:47:26,228 you know, maybe if you were a developer consulting on that, -813 +817 00:47:26,228 --> 00:47:27,638 you -814 +818 00:47:27,639 --> 00:47:30,398 know, how would you kind of convince them that this, this -815 +819 00:47:30,398 --> 00:47:31,179 should be a priority? -816 +820 00:47:31,643 --> 00:47:36,463 Todd: Okay. Funny. You mentioned that. Cause I wrote a article, -817 +821 00:47:36,824 --> 00:47:42,164 uh, about that and it's on smashing magazine. So I'll get -818 +822 00:47:42,164 --> 00:47:46,981 that. Link to you as well. It's a very tricky slope sometimes. -819 +823 00:47:46,981 --> 00:47:51,798 Um, -820 +824 00:47:51,858 --> 00:47:55,608 you know, I've heard people for instance say, well, you don't -821 +825 00:47:55,608 --> 00:48:00,534 want to get sued. And that kind of. Perks up stakeholders ears -822 +826 00:48:00,534 --> 00:48:03,353 and says, oh, you know, well, I guess we're going to have to do -823 +827 00:48:03,353 --> 00:48:14,934 this. Me. I use real world examples of, for instance, I ran -824 +828 00:48:14,934 --> 00:48:21,083 into a stakeholder on a project. and I said, we've got to make -825 +829 00:48:21,083 --> 00:48:24,054 sure accessibility is done from the very beginning of the -826 +830 00:48:24,054 --> 00:48:27,773 project. He turned to me and said, we don't have disabled -827 +831 00:48:27,773 --> 00:48:30,503 users. I in turn said to him, you're wearing eyeglasses, -828 +832 00:48:30,503 --> 00:48:33,233 that's -829 +833 00:48:33,233 --> 00:48:38,454 an assistive technology and he kind of perked up, but I'd, -830 +834 00:48:38,454 --> 00:48:40,928 hadn't convinced him. So the, you know, there's some people -831 +835 00:48:40,928 --> 00:48:43,402 that -832 +836 00:48:43,403 --> 00:48:47,934 can be very stubborn. So I went as far as to say, you know, -833 +837 00:48:48,534 --> 00:48:50,754 somebody's working. You know, using your product, they can -834 +838 00:48:50,754 --> 00:48:52,974 have -835 +839 00:48:52,974 --> 00:48:55,554 a broken arm, it could be a situational disability. They -836 +840 00:48:55,563 --> 00:48:58,224 could have a broken arm. They could be at home working with a -837 +841 00:48:58,224 --> 00:49:02,094 child on their lap. That's very fussy. I've been there a long -838 +842 00:49:02,094 --> 00:49:05,403 time ago. I know that feeling and I, you know, I know Bekah, -839 +843 00:49:05,403 --> 00:49:08,712 you're -840 +844 00:49:08,713 --> 00:49:10,753 a parent. I don't know if you're a parent, Dan, but. -841 +845 00:49:10,853 --> 00:49:11,253 -Dan: hell yeah. +Dan: Hell yeah. -842 +846 00:49:11,753 --> 00:49:15,264 Todd: Yeah. Yeah. So you both know that, you know, you have a -843 +847 00:49:15,264 --> 00:49:18,563 child on your lap and they're fussy, you know, and you're -844 +848 00:49:18,563 --> 00:49:22,164 trying to answer an email or something. It's very difficult. -845 +849 00:49:22,164 --> 00:49:26,408 So, you know, getting teams on board is another thing too, -846 +850 00:49:26,408 --> 00:49:30,652 where -847 +851 00:49:30,684 --> 00:49:35,918 getting somebody. A person dedicated to doing accessibility -848 +852 00:49:35,918 --> 00:49:39,338 on the design side, on the development side, on the -849 +853 00:49:39,338 --> 00:49:45,009 marketing side. That helps too. But the main thing is getting -850 +854 00:49:45,009 --> 00:49:47,604 stakeholders on board. If you can get a stakeholder on board, -851 +855 00:49:47,604 --> 00:49:50,199 then -852 +856 00:49:50,318 --> 00:49:52,703 it should be much, much easier to get the entire organization -853 +857 00:49:52,703 --> 00:49:55,088 on -854 +858 00:49:55,088 --> 00:49:55,498 board. -855 +859 00:49:57,268 --> 00:49:58,433 Bekah: Yeah, that's great. I love that. You know, it all -856 +860 00:49:58,433 --> 00:49:59,598 comes down -857 +861 00:49:59,599 --> 00:50:03,228 to listening and being open-minded right. If we work -858 +862 00:50:03,228 --> 00:50:05,238 towards understanding each other, then we can all do a -859 +863 00:50:05,238 --> 00:50:07,248 whole lot -860 +864 00:50:07,248 --> 00:50:09,139 more to improve things for everyone. -861 +865 00:50:10,478 --> 00:50:15,188 Todd: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yep. I've heard it, -862 +866 00:50:15,998 --> 00:50:19,268 I've heard it before. We don't have the budget, you know, we'll -863 +867 00:50:19,268 --> 00:50:26,418 get to it after launch. Well, that brings me back to. Yep. If -864 +868 00:50:26,418 --> 00:50:28,998 you do everything from the beginning, you will have the -865 +869 00:50:28,998 --> 00:50:33,108 money for it and you know, it will be less stressed, so, yeah. -866 +870 00:50:33,148 --> 00:50:35,188 Dan: don't need to pay for it. Find the budget to pay for a -867 +871 00:50:35,188 --> 00:50:38,454 whole round of. You know, auditing and stuff. -868 +872 00:50:39,208 --> 00:50:45,298 Todd: Right. Yeah. And auditing. So I'll use an example of a -869 +873 00:50:45,298 --> 00:50:53,664 company that got sued and what they could have. What they could -870 +874 00:50:53,664 --> 00:50:55,643 have spent just with, you know, doing it from the beginning, -871 +875 00:50:55,643 --> 00:50:57,622 they -872 +876 00:50:57,623 --> 00:51:00,713 ended up paying seven figures for an audit. So that should -873 +877 00:51:00,713 --> 00:51:03,803 tell you -874 +878 00:51:03,804 --> 00:51:05,634 something about that process. -875 +879 00:51:06,099 --> 00:51:07,149 Bekah: Right. And it shouldn't ever have to come to that. -876 +880 00:51:07,149 --> 00:51:08,199 That's -877 +881 00:51:08,648 --> 00:51:10,989 know, absolutely ridiculous. -878 +882 00:51:11,494 --> 00:51:11,793 -Todd: yeah. +Todd: Yeah. -879 +883 00:51:12,728 --> 00:51:14,768 Bekah: But I'm so glad that you were here today to talk us -880 +884 00:51:14,768 --> 00:51:17,228 through this and drop all of these great resources. And I -881 +885 00:51:17,228 --> 00:51:19,283 really hope that, you know, it helps people who are listening -882 +886 00:51:19,283 --> 00:51:21,338 to -883 +887 00:51:22,059 --> 00:51:24,878 work through the stuff. And to know that it's okay to ask -884 +888 00:51:24,878 --> 00:51:30,233 questions. And to Grow and learn more all the time. Um, so we'll -885 +889 00:51:30,233 --> 00:51:33,563 make sure that we drop all those links in the show notes. And -886 +890 00:51:33,713 --> 00:51:35,634 thanks so much for being here with us today. Todd -887 +891 00:51:36,474 --> 00:51:37,134 Todd: Well, thank you. -888 +892 00:51:37,173 --> 00:51:38,074 Dan: Really appreciate it too. -889 +893 00:51:38,483 --> 00:51:39,804 Todd: Yeah. Thank you both for having me -890 +894 00:51:40,844 --> 00:51:41,483 Bekah: Bye. -891 +895 00:51:41,824 --> 00:51:44,023 Dan: alright, bye Todd. -892 +896 00:51:44,684 --> 00:51:44,873 Todd: Bye -893 +897 00:51:46,646 --> 00:51:48,956 Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual -894 +898 00:51:48,956 --> 00:51:52,476 Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah -895 +899 00:51:52,496 --> 00:51:55,657 Hawrot Weigel, and was edited by Andy Bonjour at GoodDay -896 +900 00:51:55,677 --> 00:51:58,467 Communications. If you have questions or comments, you can -897 +901 00:51:58,467 --> 00:52:01,706 hit us up on Twitter at VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at -898 +902 00:52:01,706 --> 00:52:04,136 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up -899 +903 00:52:04,136 --> 00:52:06,566 for -900 +904 00:52:06,567 --> 00:52:08,907 our newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our -901 +905 00:52:08,907 --> 00:52:11,141 website at virtualcoffee.io. And of course join us for our -902 +906 00:52:11,141 --> 00:52:13,375 Virtual -903 +907 00:52:13,376 --> 00:52:16,226 Coffee Chats every Tuesday at 9 am Eastern and Thursday at -904 +908 00:52:16,226 --> 00:52:18,024 12 pm Eastern Please subscribe to our podcast and be -905 +909 00:52:18,024 --> 00:52:19,822 sure to -906 +910 00:52:19,822 --> 00:52:22,882 leave us a review. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next -907 +911 00:52:22,882 --> 00:52:23,213 week! \ No newline at end of file From 7629b83223cf400f03b43ec7f52f803c12191db2 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Chris Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 16:56:13 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 03/13] removed filler words, fix dashes --- episodes/4_2.srt | 1978 +++++++++++++++++++++++----------------------- 1 file changed, 983 insertions(+), 995 deletions(-) diff --git a/episodes/4_2.srt b/episodes/4_2.srt index d7d6bee..aa1da32 100644 --- a/episodes/4_2.srt +++ b/episodes/4_2.srt @@ -212,8 +212,8 @@ O'Keeffe. 46 00:02:19,144 --> 00:02:21,573 -Dan: Um, hi, I'm Dan I'm a front -end developer in Cleveland, +Dan: Hi, I'm Dan I'm a front end +developer in Cleveland, 47 00:02:21,573 --> 00:02:24,002 @@ -221,8 +221,8 @@ Ohio, 48 00:02:24,093 --> 00:02:27,693 -and, um, does it have to be -famous person? +and, does it have to be famous +person? 49 00:02:27,693 --> 00:02:28,463 @@ -240,7 +240,7 @@ take it out. 52 00:02:31,354 --> 00:02:33,393 -Dan: I mean, uh, Kate, one of my +Dan: I mean, Kate, one of my good friends at Kate Brideau 53 @@ -249,8 +249,8 @@ from 54 00:02:35,433 --> 00:02:39,033 -college, um, I would say that -would be the person. Um, that'd +college, I would say that would +be the person. That'd 55 00:02:39,033 --> 00:02:42,213 @@ -273,7 +273,7 @@ know, 59 00:02:45,693 --> 00:02:50,503 and that seems like a boring -answer. Um, maybe have Raphael, +answer. Maybe have Raphael, 60 00:02:50,524 --> 00:02:52,743 @@ -292,7 +292,7 @@ There's there's that too. Yeah. 63 00:02:58,683 --> 00:02:59,563 Any Raphael really? I'll take, -uh, take any version. +take any version. 64 00:02:59,563 --> 00:03:00,443 @@ -335,8 +335,8 @@ Dan: That'd be a good one. 73 00:03:31,449 --> 00:03:32,853 -Bekah: There's um, anytime -somebody is from Phoenix, I +Bekah: There's anytime somebody +is from Phoenix, I 74 00:03:32,853 --> 00:03:34,257 @@ -415,7 +415,7 @@ it's 90 00:04:14,334 --> 00:04:18,444 -Todd. So it's like he, he has +Todd. So it's like he- he has claimed that emoji and it's one 91 @@ -457,7 +457,7 @@ mean, I don't first, you know 99 00:04:36,749 --> 00:04:37,963 -what I mean? But like, um, it's, +what I mean? But like, it's, it's like high fiving Todd, 100 @@ -554,7 +554,7 @@ would be awesome. 120 00:05:23,423 --> 00:05:27,173 Todd: Yeah. Oh boy. That's a -long one. Um, I'll give you the +long one. I'll give you the 121 00:05:27,173 --> 00:05:32,824 @@ -563,7 +563,7 @@ old. I started on a Commodore 122 00:05:32,824 --> 00:05:38,463 -PET. Um, in school and then +PET. In school and then gradually worked my way up to a 123 @@ -577,13 +577,13 @@ flavors 125 00:05:43,233 --> 00:05:50,343 -of BASIC, um, and was just, you +of BASIC, and was just, you know, it was just a hobby of 126 00:05:50,343 --> 00:05:55,803 -course at that point. But, um, -what was it about 1999? Um, I +course at that point. But, what +was it about 1999? I 127 00:05:55,803 --> 00:06:01,263 @@ -606,7 +606,7 @@ of 131 00:06:15,168 --> 00:06:23,178 how old I am and JavaScript was -just kicking around. Um, I +just kicking around. I 132 00:06:23,178 --> 00:06:25,323 @@ -624,8 +624,8 @@ four. And just, it went from 135 00:06:35,103 --> 00:06:44,733 -there. Um, programming was cool. -I used to do, um, in BASIC on a +there. Programming was cool. I +used to do, in BASIC on a 136 00:06:44,733 --> 00:06:49,564 @@ -647,13 +647,13 @@ Todd: To 140 00:06:54,454 --> 00:07:01,863 -program a text-based, uh, Pretty +program a text-based, Pretty much copied and I hope no one's 141 00:07:01,863 --> 00:07:03,400 listening from that company, -[laughter] but, um, I, I used +[laughter] but, I- I used 142 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:04,937 @@ -676,12 +676,12 @@ And that's really what got me 146 00:07:18,468 --> 00:07:22,249 started because I was living in -a very rural area in, in New +a very rural area in- in New 147 00:07:22,249 --> 00:07:28,009 -England. And, uh, there wasn't -much to do so except for +England. And, there wasn't much +to do so except for 148 00:07:28,038 --> 00:07:34,488 @@ -691,7 +691,7 @@ skip ahead to today, or when I 149 00:07:34,488 --> 00:07:40,548 started professionally and I was -22 years ago. And I started, um, +22 years ago. And I started, 150 00:07:41,538 --> 00:07:44,689 @@ -701,7 +701,7 @@ I read Jeffrey Zeldman's book, 151 00:07:45,168 --> 00:07:49,788 instantly got hooked into web -standards, uh, progressive +standards, progressive 152 00:07:49,788 --> 00:07:52,038 @@ -725,12 +725,12 @@ accessibility. 156 00:08:04,269 --> 00:08:07,298 Dan: I think that's awesome. I, -and I, I love that book too. And +and I- I love that book too. And 157 00:08:08,499 --> 00:08:11,664 -Jeffery Zeldman I have been, um, -so 22 years ago is what, 99, +Jeffery Zeldman I have been, so +22 years ago is what, 99, 158 00:08:11,664 --> 00:08:14,829 @@ -753,7 +753,7 @@ lot more 162 00:08:24,019 --> 00:08:27,588 into it a couple of years later. -Um, but was with the web +But was with the web 163 00:08:27,588 --> 00:08:28,713 @@ -766,8 +766,8 @@ I've 165 00:08:29,838 --> 00:08:31,953 -been, uh, you know, and -similarly front-end focused for +been, you know, and similarly +front-end focused for 166 00:08:31,953 --> 00:08:34,068 @@ -775,8 +775,8 @@ a long 167 00:08:34,068 --> 00:08:35,463 -time. And, um, one of us was -just one of the reasons I was +time. And, one of us was just +one of the reasons I was 168 00:08:35,463 --> 00:08:36,858 @@ -797,7 +797,7 @@ out 172 00:08:41,028 --> 00:08:42,288 -with a little bit more. Um, +with a little bit more. 173 00:08:42,318 --> 00:08:42,438 @@ -805,13 +805,13 @@ Todd: Yeah. 174 00:08:43,879 --> 00:08:49,428 -Dan: It's uh, so, know, on front -end and focusing on +Dan: It's so, know, on front end +and focusing on 175 00:08:49,428 --> 00:08:54,303 -accessibility, um, things like -that. I mean, what career +accessibility, things like that. +I mean, what career 176 00:08:54,303 --> 00:08:56,313 @@ -830,8 +830,8 @@ through a little bit of how 179 00:09:01,443 --> 00:09:02,665 -that's been being like, uh, -front end and especially +that's been being like, front +end and especially 180 00:09:02,665 --> 00:09:03,887 @@ -843,8 +843,8 @@ know, 182 00:09:06,364 --> 00:09:08,734 -a specialist, um, for whatever -that means for you. Uh, you +a specialist, for whatever that +means for you. You 183 00:09:08,734 --> 00:09:11,104 @@ -853,7 +853,7 @@ know, 184 00:09:11,124 --> 00:09:12,163 run it through a little bit, -like how that's been finding, +like how that's been finding- 185 00:09:12,163 --> 00:09:13,202 @@ -865,3416 +865,3404 @@ work and finding people that care about that sort of thing. 187 -00:09:14,973 --> 00:09:16,202 -Um, - -188 00:09:16,869 --> 00:09:18,564 Bekah: Can I just jump into, if you can just provide some -189 +188 00:09:18,564 --> 00:09:20,259 context -190 +189 00:09:20,259 --> 00:09:22,764 -for what, what does +for what- what does accessibility mean and how does -191 +190 00:09:22,764 --> 00:09:25,269 that work as -192 +191 00:09:25,269 --> 00:09:26,048 part of a job? -193 +192 00:09:27,379 --> 00:09:30,244 -Todd: Okay. Um, to address what -it's accessibility mean, uh, +Todd: Okay. To address what it's +accessibility mean, -194 +193 00:09:30,244 --> 00:09:33,109 I'll -195 +194 00:09:33,109 --> 00:09:38,708 address that first and that is making the web equal and -196 +195 00:09:38,708 --> 00:09:42,634 -accessible for everybody. Um, it +accessible for everybody. It just doesn't have to be a -197 +196 00:09:42,634 --> 00:09:44,989 disability. It can be, you know, somebody in, I'll use this -198 +197 00:09:44,989 --> 00:09:47,344 example -199 +198 00:09:47,673 --> 00:09:50,763 in a very rural area who has a 3G phone. And, you know, it's -200 +199 00:09:50,763 --> 00:09:53,853 not a -201 +200 00:09:53,854 --> 00:09:57,484 very fast connection is to, you know, what we have these days -202 +201 00:09:57,484 --> 00:10:04,714 with our shiny new iPhones and -stuff like that. Um, and then +stuff like that and then -203 +202 00:10:04,714 --> 00:10:10,188 accessibility. Somebody in accessibility would basically, -204 +203 00:10:10,278 --> 00:10:16,038 -um, not only advocate, but don't -in my daily routine of doing +not only advocate, but don't in +my daily routine of doing -205 +204 00:10:16,068 --> 00:10:19,353 auditing on websites. It's just -checking to see if, uh, Sites +checking to see if, Sites -206 +205 00:10:19,353 --> 00:10:22,638 are -207 +206 00:10:22,639 --> 00:10:27,619 accessible if they're, you know, -if they should be failing, um, +if they should be failing, -208 +207 00:10:27,918 --> 00:10:32,239 web content, accessibility guidelines WCAG is how I -209 +208 00:10:32,298 --> 00:10:33,843 pronounce it. There's many different pronunciations to -210 +209 00:10:33,843 --> 00:10:35,388 that, -211 +210 00:10:35,389 --> 00:10:46,489 -but, um, um, the, um, you know, -and you know, there's different, +but, the, you know, and you +know, there's different, -212 +211 00:10:46,489 --> 00:10:50,619 I guess. Levels of how people will do an audit. Like, you -213 +212 00:10:50,619 --> 00:10:54,749 know, -214 +213 00:10:55,558 --> 00:10:58,048 you can do, you know, A and AA as far as the levels. So there's -215 +214 00:10:58,048 --> 00:11:00,538 -A +A, -216 +215 00:11:00,568 --> 00:11:06,058 -AA and AAA, a lot of people I +AA, and AAA, a lot of people I find don't do AAA, because it's -217 +216 00:11:06,058 --> 00:11:08,593 too stringent and it's also, you don't have to go that far in -218 +217 00:11:08,593 --> 00:11:11,128 most -219 +218 00:11:11,129 --> 00:11:17,224 -cases. Um, but. It's just -auditing, making sure sites are +cases. but. It's just auditing, +making sure sites are -220 +219 00:11:17,224 --> 00:11:22,984 -accessible in, um, creating a -report for a client and then +accessible in, creating a report +for a client and then -221 +220 00:11:23,043 --> 00:11:25,098 telling them here's what's wrong. Here's how you need to -222 +221 00:11:25,098 --> 00:11:27,153 fix it. -223 +222 00:11:27,214 --> 00:11:32,553 This doesn't, you know, adhere -to the guidelines and, um, +to the guidelines and, -224 +223 00:11:32,583 --> 00:11:37,803 recommendations for best -practices as well. And, um, You +practices as well. And, You -225 +224 00:11:37,803 --> 00:11:40,953 know, looking at code and, you know, always looking at HTML and -226 +225 00:11:40,953 --> 00:11:46,594 CSS because CSS too has a strong -effect on accessibility and, uh, +effect on accessibility and, -227 +226 00:11:47,043 --> 00:11:51,464 -that's what the job entails. Um, -and Dan, what was your question? +that's what the job entails. and +Dan, what was your question? -228 +227 00:11:52,369 --> 00:11:53,463 Dan: Alright, I guess my -question was, um, you know, +question was, you know, -229 +228 00:11:53,463 --> 00:11:54,557 -it's, it's a +it's- it's a -230 +229 00:11:54,558 --> 00:11:57,568 sort of. I don't know if non-traditional is the right -231 +230 00:11:57,568 --> 00:12:01,019 word, but, you know, being a specialist really in any regard, -232 +231 00:12:01,078 --> 00:12:03,163 -um, is, uh, is a choice, you -know, and can limit your +is- is a choice, you know, and +can limit your -233 +232 00:12:03,163 --> 00:12:05,248 options, -234 +233 00:12:05,249 --> 00:12:09,208 but like also what you want to -do. Right. Um, and so I, my +do. Right. and so I, my -235 +234 00:12:09,208 --> 00:12:13,048 question was more like, how has -it been, uh, on your career +it been, on your career -236 +235 00:12:13,048 --> 00:12:15,568 journey? You know, being a specialist, especially in the -237 +236 00:12:15,568 --> 00:12:16,948 accessibility world, -238 +237 00:12:17,803 --> 00:12:22,543 -Todd: Right. Um, it's been a +Todd: Right. it's been a challenge lately in, I would say -239 +238 00:12:22,543 --> 00:12:30,793 the past. Five, maybe 10 years. -Um, because not a lot of people, +because not a lot of people, -240 +239 00:12:30,793 --> 00:12:33,464 not a lot of companies were looking for accessibility -241 +240 00:12:33,464 --> 00:12:39,764 -specialists. Um, not until I've +specialists. not until I've pretty much noticed this year. A -242 +241 00:12:39,764 --> 00:12:43,333 lot of companies are now looking for accessibility specialists -243 +242 00:12:43,333 --> 00:12:47,668 because companies are getting sued. And they don't want to get -244 +243 00:12:47,668 --> 00:12:53,908 sued. That's that's the bottom line. So my professional journey -245 +244 00:12:53,908 --> 00:13:00,239 -had been, I worked, uh, I -started, I did a website for +had been, I worked, I started, I +did a website for -246 +245 00:13:00,239 --> 00:13:07,769 -somebody I knew back in, uh, new -England, Maine. And, um, it was +somebody I knew back in, new +England, Maine. And, it was -247 +246 00:13:07,769 --> 00:13:10,288 just a site. And then from there I got, you know, a few -248 +247 00:13:10,288 --> 00:13:12,807 different -249 +248 00:13:13,019 --> 00:13:16,859 jobs doing websites. And then from there I was like, well, you -250 +249 00:13:16,859 --> 00:13:18,794 know, this thing's taken off. I'm going to do the I'm going to -251 +250 00:13:18,794 --> 00:13:20,729 go -252 +251 00:13:20,739 --> 00:13:26,321 the freelance route. So that's what I did. And. Up until 2015, -253 +252 00:13:26,321 --> 00:13:31,903 I -254 +253 00:13:31,903 --> 00:13:36,644 -was a freelance, uh, developer, -I guess you could say I got into +was a freelance, developer, I +guess you could say I got into -255 +254 00:13:36,644 --> 00:13:42,313 -WordPress, uh, PHP development. -And then, um, I was hired by a +WordPress, PHP development. And +then, I was hired by a -256 +255 00:13:42,313 --> 00:13:51,403 company to do their website and -their SASS, um, their SASS, uh, +their SASS, their SASS, -257 +256 00:13:52,663 --> 00:14:01,124 site, I guess. It was a, a thing where you log in and it wasn't a -258 +257 00:14:01,124 --> 00:14:06,583 -public facing site. And, um, -from there it would be-been +public facing site. And, from +there it would be-been -259 +258 00:14:06,583 --> 00:14:12,042 about, I -260 +259 00:14:12,043 --> 00:14:14,368 don't know. I think I counted over 2000 resumes that I had -261 +260 00:14:14,368 --> 00:14:16,693 sent -262 +261 00:14:16,693 --> 00:14:23,323 out to companies in 20 years in. One company hired me. And that -263 +262 00:14:23,323 --> 00:14:28,994 was that company that I worked -for in 2015 to, uh, just, uh, +for in 2015 to, just, -264 +263 00:14:29,024 --> 00:14:34,033 last year as a matter of fact. And then finally somebody took a -265 +264 00:14:34,033 --> 00:14:36,823 chance on me that would have been Nobility. I was hired by -266 +265 00:14:36,823 --> 00:14:43,903 -Nobility, uh, in March and March -or April. Geez, it's been over +Nobility, in March and March or +April. Geez, it's been over -267 +266 00:14:43,903 --> 00:14:46,033 -six months, but, um, +six months, but, -268 +267 00:14:46,889 --> 00:14:47,818 -Dan: What is time anyway. +Dan: What is time anyway? -269 +268 00:14:48,418 --> 00:14:49,888 Todd: well, I don't even know [laughter] anymore. I'm in a -270 +269 00:14:49,888 --> 00:14:51,358 different time -271 +270 00:14:51,359 --> 00:14:57,928 zone now, so that's messed me up -too. Uh, but Nobility gave me +too. but Nobility gave me -272 +271 00:14:57,928 --> 00:15:02,458 a, you know, an opportunity and very grateful for that -273 +272 00:15:02,458 --> 00:15:09,178 -opportunity with them and, um, a -lot of great people in Nobility +opportunity with them and, a lot +of great people in Nobility -274 +273 00:15:09,208 --> 00:15:12,238 -that work for the company. Um, +that work for the company. everybody is a matter of fact -275 +274 00:15:12,238 --> 00:15:15,268 and -276 +275 00:15:15,298 --> 00:15:17,578 they do some really good stuff as far as accessibility goes. -277 +276 00:15:17,578 --> 00:15:19,858 And, -278 +277 00:15:19,918 --> 00:15:24,127 -um, as of October 1st, I will -be, um, on the, uh, +as of October 1st, I will be, on +the, -279 +278 00:15:24,127 --> 00:15:28,336 WebstaurantStore -280 +279 00:15:28,466 --> 00:15:32,677 team as an accessibility -engineer. Uh, so I look forward +engineer. So I look forward -281 +280 00:15:32,677 --> 00:15:34,000 to that. Yeah. -282 +281 00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:34,366 Dan: Honestly -283 +282 00:15:34,866 --> 00:15:37,506 Bekah: Can you talk a little bit about what you'll be doing in -284 +283 00:15:37,506 --> 00:15:39,756 that role there? Maybe dive into a little bit of details. -285 +284 00:15:41,871 --> 00:15:46,251 -Todd: Um, for right now, all I -know is it's basically doing the +Todd: for right now, all I know +is it's basically doing the -286 +285 00:15:46,251 --> 00:15:52,192 same thing I do now and that's -auditing, um, their product for +auditing, their product for -287 +286 00:15:52,192 --> 00:16:04,251 -their, uh, website. I know they -use, they use React and I think +their, website. I know they use, +they use React and I think -288 +287 00:16:04,282 --> 00:16:10,042 it was .Net. So that I'll be in -that, um, environment. +that, environment. -289 +288 00:16:10,782 --> 00:16:13,182 Bekah: So like when you do an audit, where do you start with -290 +289 00:16:13,182 --> 00:16:13,272 that? -291 +290 00:16:14,961 --> 00:16:18,216 Todd: So when I do an audit, I -do automated, uh, checks and +do automated, checks and -292 +291 00:16:18,216 --> 00:16:21,471 scans -293 +292 00:16:21,471 --> 00:16:27,772 first. So I use stuff like the -WAVE extension, um, The Axe, I +WAVE extension, The Axe, I -294 +293 00:16:28,131 --> 00:16:32,601 now wait until the end to use the Axe-Core extension in the -295 +294 00:16:32,601 --> 00:16:40,297 -browser. Um, Things like, uh, -there's a command line called +browser. Things like, there's a +command line called -296 +295 00:16:40,297 --> 00:16:48,726 -Pa11y. So it's PA one, one Y uh, -there's that I use, um, does +Pa11y. So it's PA one, one Y, +there's that I use, does -297 +296 00:16:48,756 --> 00:16:55,057 Bookmarklets from Ian Lloyd and Paul J. Adam that I use to also -298 +297 00:16:55,326 --> 00:17:01,206 -do checks. Um, Let's see what -else? There's Microsoft +do checks. Let's see what else? +There's Microsoft -299 +298 00:17:01,236 --> 00:17:07,267 Accessibility Insights, which is -a great tool to use. Um, what +a great tool to use. what -300 +299 00:17:07,267 --> 00:17:15,517 -else? And I said, axe, color, -contrast checks. I use, um, the +else? And I said, Axe, color, +contrast checks. I use, the -301 +300 00:17:15,517 --> 00:17:19,626 Firefox accessibility dev tools, the accessibility panels and -302 +301 00:17:19,626 --> 00:17:22,911 those, and then I move on to, -um, manual testing. So. mouse +manual testing. So. mouse -303 +302 00:17:22,911 --> 00:17:26,196 only, -304 +303 00:17:26,961 --> 00:17:33,112 -um, keyboard only I will do it, +keyboard only I will do it, which goes back to color -305 +304 00:17:33,112 --> 00:17:35,842 contrast. I'll do the squint test. So I'll just look at the -306 +305 00:17:35,842 --> 00:17:39,352 site while I'm squinting at it and see if, you know, I can make -307 +306 00:17:39,352 --> 00:17:45,951 out anything cause, that I was -taught not too long ago. So, um, +taught not too long ago. So, -308 +307 00:17:46,551 --> 00:17:49,626 Dan: I like that -309 +308 00:17:46,551 --> 00:17:49,000 -Todd: And uh, screen readers, I +Todd: And screen readers, I will use -310 +309 00:17:49,626 --> 00:17:52,000 screen readers. So for Mac -311 +310 00:17:52,701 --> 00:17:58,192 there's Voiceover. And it's best to use Voiceover in Safari -312 +311 00:17:58,221 --> 00:18:01,686 because the native, you know, -Mac app and everything, um, and +Mac app and everything, and -313 +312 00:18:01,686 --> 00:18:05,151 NVDA -314 +313 00:18:05,332 --> 00:18:10,071 -and Jaws on a Windows. And, um, -if, and it's very, very rare, +and Jaws on a Windows. And, if, +and it's very, very rare, -315 +314 00:18:10,071 --> 00:18:14,810 but -316 +315 00:18:14,811 --> 00:18:21,067 if somebody says, oh, you know, we have Linux users. So I will -317 +316 00:18:21,067 --> 00:18:22,761 test on what and it's called -Orca for Linux and, um, yeah, +Orca for Linux and, yeah, -318 +317 00:18:22,761 --> 00:18:24,455 those -319 +318 00:18:24,456 --> 00:18:27,845 are -320 +319 00:18:27,846 --> 00:18:31,041 -pretty much, uh, if I remember -them all correctly, um, those +pretty much, if I remember them +all correctly, those -321 +320 00:18:31,041 --> 00:18:34,236 are -322 +321 00:18:34,237 --> 00:18:35,317 the tools I use. Ha Ha. -323 +322 00:18:36,207 --> 00:18:38,366 Dan: That's. Yeah, that's awesome. It's very extensive. I -324 +323 00:18:38,366 --> 00:18:39,926 was just writing all them down so that -325 +324 00:18:39,997 --> 00:18:42,176 Bekah: So as I well, the link to those show notes. -326 +325 00:18:42,471 --> 00:18:44,136 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And so, so like day to day, I mean, I -327 +326 00:18:44,136 --> 00:18:45,801 know -328 +327 00:18:45,801 --> 00:18:47,661 you haven't started yet, but like in your, in your role, will -329 +328 00:18:47,661 --> 00:18:49,521 it be -330 +329 00:18:49,882 --> 00:18:53,541 mostly doing audits after the fact? Or like, will you be -331 +330 00:18:53,541 --> 00:18:54,876 interfacing with, you know, I'm not sure what they do, what -332 +331 00:18:54,876 --> 00:18:56,211 they, -333 +332 00:18:56,241 --> 00:18:59,092 what, what they make or anything like that, but you know, like -334 +333 00:18:59,092 --> 00:19:03,142 where in the process are you, -are you, uh, doing like +are you, doing like -335 +334 00:19:03,142 --> 00:19:06,336 -accessibility? Uh, you know, -helping the team with, with this +accessibility? you know, helping +the team with, with this -336 +335 00:19:06,336 --> 00:19:10,446 stuff, like, know, audits for me imply, and I know this isn't -337 +336 00:19:10,446 --> 00:19:13,537 always true, but when I think of it as something, oh, something's -338 +337 00:19:13,537 --> 00:19:15,172 done, now we do an audit on it. You know what I mean? -339 +338 00:19:15,172 --> 00:19:16,807 Dan: but I was -340 +339 00:19:16,807 --> 00:19:18,936 wondering if, and I'm sure that's an important part. I was -341 +340 00:19:18,936 --> 00:19:21,066 -wondering if there's, um, places +wondering if there's, places earlier in the process where, -342 -00:19:21,066 --> 00:19:23,196 -um, - -343 +341 00:19:23,886 --> 00:19:28,386 where, you know, you're able to interface and like, you know, -344 +342 00:19:28,866 --> 00:19:31,747 make suggestions before it, you know, as opposed to like fixing -345 +343 00:19:31,747 --> 00:19:34,576 things, but like help build something you know, the first -346 +344 00:19:34,576 --> 00:19:34,666 time. -347 +345 00:19:34,666 --> 00:19:34,997 Todd: Right. Yeah, -348 +346 00:19:35,017 --> 00:19:35,696 Dan: Does that make sense? -349 +347 00:19:36,277 --> 00:19:42,946 -Todd: yeah, yeah. Um, I'm, I'm -sure it's going to be probably a +Todd: yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm sure +it's going to be probably a -350 +348 00:19:42,946 --> 00:19:49,096 -lot of both. Um, maybe there's -existing things on the site, uh, +lot of both. maybe there's +existing things on the site, -351 +349 00:19:49,636 --> 00:19:56,416 -that need to be checked, um, +that need to be checked, components that may be being -352 +350 00:19:56,416 --> 00:20:00,561 worked on. We'll have to be checked. I mean, it's that way, -353 +351 00:20:00,561 --> 00:20:02,646 pretty much with any kind of audit. So I've had companies -354 +352 00:20:02,646 --> 00:20:04,731 come -355 +353 00:20:04,741 --> 00:20:07,946 to me and say, you know, we we've got somebody who emailed -356 +354 00:20:07,946 --> 00:20:11,151 us and -357 +355 00:20:11,152 --> 00:20:13,806 said, this isn't accessible, so we need a, an audit done and -358 +356 00:20:13,806 --> 00:20:16,460 I'll -359 +357 00:20:16,461 --> 00:20:20,287 go through the site and say, okay, I found all this. Here's -360 +358 00:20:20,287 --> 00:20:24,757 what you need to do to fix it. They'll fix it. That'll be after -361 +359 00:20:24,757 --> 00:20:28,146 the fact of course, I've had companies come in and ask me to -362 +360 00:20:28,146 --> 00:20:31,386 do consulting with their teams before the project starts to -363 +361 00:20:31,386 --> 00:20:34,626 make -364 +362 00:20:34,626 --> 00:20:37,567 sure that it gets done beforehand. Because when you do -365 +363 00:20:37,567 --> 00:20:40,836 an accessibility, when you, when you bring in accessibility from -366 +364 00:20:40,836 --> 00:20:45,146 the start of a project, it's so much easier and there's less, a -367 +365 00:20:45,146 --> 00:20:50,416 lot less stress, doing it from the very beginning, because when -368 +366 00:20:50,416 --> 00:20:53,957 you get to the end and you've got, everything is as accessible -369 +367 00:20:53,957 --> 00:20:58,336 as you can. And I'll add that nothing's a hundred percent -370 +368 00:20:58,336 --> 00:21:05,537 -accessible. Um, it's, it's a lot +accessible. it's, it's a lot easier on your teams. You know, -371 +369 00:21:05,567 --> 00:21:06,812 like I said, there's a lot less stress. You don't have to go -372 +370 00:21:06,812 --> 00:21:08,057 back -373 +371 00:21:08,057 --> 00:21:13,237 and scatter around trying to fix this, that, and the other thing -374 +372 00:21:13,656 --> 00:21:17,826 -after the fact. So, um, and -that's also where my advocacy +after the fact. So, and that's +also where my advocacy -375 +373 00:21:17,826 --> 00:21:22,086 comes in is saying, okay, if you get this done from the start, -376 +374 00:21:22,866 --> 00:21:24,741 you're going to be, it's going to be so much easier and it's -377 +375 00:21:24,741 --> 00:21:26,616 going -378 +376 00:21:26,616 --> 00:21:27,741 to cost less money because you're not going back. It's -379 +377 00:21:27,741 --> 00:21:28,866 going -380 +378 00:21:28,866 --> 00:21:31,116 to cause -381 +379 00:21:31,446 --> 00:21:33,426 a lot less stress again. And, -uh, those are the two main +those are the two main -382 +380 00:21:33,426 --> 00:21:35,406 things. -383 +381 00:21:35,767 --> 00:21:39,126 -Um, but to answer the question, -it's going to be a little bit of +but to answer the question, it's +going to be a little bit of -384 +382 00:21:39,126 --> 00:21:40,746 both. I would think, because like I said, it's usually that -385 +383 00:21:40,746 --> 00:21:42,366 way at -386 +384 00:21:42,366 --> 00:21:45,906 -the beginning, you know? Um, +the beginning, you know? -387 +385 00:21:45,906 --> 00:21:47,346 Dan: Get something to a baseline first. -388 +386 00:21:47,366 --> 00:21:51,807 Todd: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and it's still really early in the -389 +387 00:21:51,807 --> 00:21:54,687 process, so I'm not too sure, but I know that there'll be a -390 +388 00:21:54,687 --> 00:21:57,567 lot of, -391 +389 00:21:57,626 --> 00:22:00,746 you know, checking to make sure everything's good. On the end -392 +390 00:22:00,746 --> 00:22:03,866 of, -393 +391 00:22:04,346 --> 00:22:07,047 you know, before we put this out, we need to make sure it's -394 +392 00:22:07,047 --> 00:22:09,416 accessible. So. yeah. -395 +393 00:22:10,311 --> 00:22:12,051 Bekah: As you've been working through this industry, do you -396 +394 00:22:12,051 --> 00:22:18,307 think. Is there one problem that you keep encountering over and -397 +395 00:22:18,307 --> 00:22:22,356 over, like stand out issues, things that people can just -398 +396 00:22:22,356 --> 00:22:25,656 really look at and say, all right, let's start here. -399 +397 00:22:26,352 --> 00:22:30,431 Todd: Well, where do I begin? It's- it's a lot, but mainly -400 +398 00:22:30,431 --> 00:22:34,510 it's -401 +399 00:22:34,511 --> 00:22:42,311 -color contrast. Okay. Um, that's -the biggest one. Um, and, uh, +color contrast. Okay. that's the +biggest one. and, -402 +400 00:22:43,846 --> 00:22:45,256 Keyboard accessibility is another and I'll throw in a -403 +401 00:22:45,256 --> 00:22:46,666 third -404 +402 00:22:46,666 --> 00:22:49,486 one. And -405 +403 00:22:49,487 --> 00:22:52,352 -that being, uh, ALT text on -images, the alternative text, +that being, ALT text on images, +the alternative text, -406 -00:22:52,352 --> 00:22:55,217 -um, - -407 +404 00:22:56,537 --> 00:23:07,217 I've had, you know, a lot of ALT -text can be a tricky, um, uh, a +text can be a tricky, a -408 +405 00:23:07,217 --> 00:23:11,747 tricky thing because people think, well, I have this image. -409 +406 00:23:12,817 --> 00:23:19,477 And I need to really go into detail what that image is -410 +407 00:23:19,477 --> 00:23:21,711 conveying. If it's an informative image and you really -411 +408 00:23:21,711 --> 00:23:23,945 don't just a -412 +409 00:23:23,946 --> 00:23:31,146 short, you know, it's a purple -flower in a field, um, is fine. +flower in a field, is fine. -413 +410 00:23:31,146 --> 00:23:33,546 You don't have to go into, I've seen on Twitter because they -414 +411 00:23:33,546 --> 00:23:35,946 give -415 +412 00:23:35,946 --> 00:23:38,218 you a thousand characters for ALT text. And I've seen this. -416 +413 00:23:38,218 --> 00:23:40,490 I've -417 +414 00:23:40,491 --> 00:23:41,892 seen ALT text that long before. -418 +415 00:23:42,031 --> 00:23:43,771 -Bekah: I always wonder, like, I, +Bekah: I always wonder, like, I- I don't think I've written -419 +416 00:23:43,771 --> 00:23:45,511 enough -420 +417 00:23:45,541 --> 00:23:47,311 because I'm not even close to the 1000 and I have a thousand -421 +418 00:23:47,311 --> 00:23:49,081 to -422 +419 00:23:49,082 --> 00:23:49,531 write. -423 +420 00:23:49,696 --> 00:23:50,731 Dan: Yeah. I always try to just like- like, just say the joke. -424 +421 00:23:50,731 --> 00:23:51,766 or whateve -425 +422 00:23:51,766 --> 00:23:53,836 I -426 +423 00:23:53,836 --> 00:23:54,961 mean, usually if I'm posting an image, it's a joke, you know, -427 +424 00:23:54,961 --> 00:23:56,086 but -428 +425 00:23:56,086 --> 00:24:00,136 like the shortest version of the joke is, you know, so I like -429 +426 00:24:00,136 --> 00:24:03,287 posted one today and it was just like guys saying thumbs up or -430 +427 00:24:03,287 --> 00:24:05,267 something like that, that, you know, you know what I mean? like -431 +428 00:24:05,416 --> 00:24:07,111 that seems that at least seems like usually enough. I don't -432 +429 00:24:07,111 --> 00:24:08,806 need -433 +430 00:24:08,807 --> 00:24:09,436 to give the whole, -434 +431 00:24:09,557 --> 00:24:11,656 Bekah: Sometimes I just don't post because I don't know how to -435 +432 00:24:11,656 --> 00:24:15,856 describe it. Like, well, I'm not really sure that I know how to -436 +433 00:24:15,856 --> 00:24:19,336 say capture what this is doing, so we'll go, we'll go for -437 +434 00:24:19,336 --> 00:24:19,936 something else. -438 +435 00:24:20,767 --> 00:24:24,297 Todd: There's a lot of debate around how long should it be? It -439 +436 00:24:24,297 --> 00:24:27,116 shouldn't be 180 characters. Should it be a certain amount of -440 +437 00:24:27,116 --> 00:24:31,646 words, but just as long as it conveys in a short succinct, -441 +438 00:24:32,636 --> 00:24:39,086 Sentence, I guess that's fine. -Um, and of course you have some +and of course you have some -442 +439 00:24:39,176 --> 00:24:43,287 images decorative that, ya know, it needs an empty ALT text. And -443 +440 00:24:43,287 --> 00:24:47,876 that's a big one because I was just doing an audit and they had -444 +441 00:24:47,876 --> 00:24:53,547 -decorative images, but no, alt, -no empty ALT text, um, which is +decorative images, but no, ALT, +no empty ALT text, which is -445 +442 00:24:53,547 --> 00:24:57,326 just the ALT equals, you know, quotes and it's, the quotes are -446 +443 00:24:57,326 --> 00:24:58,346 empty in between, -447 +444 00:24:58,961 --> 00:25:01,781 Bekah: Can you explain that? Cause that I had just recently -448 +445 00:25:01,781 --> 00:25:06,892 learned about that, but. Don't quite understand why that's the -449 +446 00:25:06,892 --> 00:25:07,471 standard. -450 +447 00:25:08,172 --> 00:25:11,757 Todd: So there's a, it tells a screen reader. There's an image -451 +448 00:25:11,757 --> 00:25:14,081 there, but it doesn't, it doesn't need it's decorative -452 +449 00:25:14,081 --> 00:25:16,405 basically. -453 +450 00:25:16,406 --> 00:25:19,237 So it just there's, there's no need to, describe -454 +451 00:25:19,636 --> 00:25:22,426 Dan: ha what happens in a screen reader? If it runs into an -455 +452 00:25:22,426 --> 00:25:24,257 image with no ALT attribute at all? -456 +453 00:25:25,297 --> 00:25:29,797 -Todd: Uh, it skips over it. So +Todd: it skips over it. So you're loo the, the user is -457 +454 00:25:29,797 --> 00:25:31,326 losing information. So if there's something you're trying -458 +455 00:25:31,326 --> 00:25:32,855 to -459 +456 00:25:32,856 --> 00:25:37,567 -convey, like let's use the, um, +convey, like let's use the, like, an infographic, for -460 +457 00:25:37,656 --> 00:25:40,491 example, and there's no ALT text on it. That user that's using -461 +458 00:25:40,491 --> 00:25:43,326 the -462 +459 00:25:43,326 --> 00:25:47,356 screen reader is not gonna know that it's there. -463 +460 00:25:47,997 --> 00:25:52,836 -Dan: Totally. Totally. And so in +Dan: Totally- Totally. And so in the case of a decorative image -464 +461 00:25:52,866 --> 00:25:56,317 where we don't need. It's okay. If his screen, you know, if it's -465 +462 00:25:56,317 --> 00:25:59,227 okay, if anybody skips over it, what do you know, what is the -466 +463 00:25:59,227 --> 00:26:01,446 tactical difference for a screen reader for a user on a screen -467 +464 00:26:01,446 --> 00:26:07,326 reader between empty, an image with an like with a ALT property -468 +465 00:26:07,326 --> 00:26:12,727 and just an empty string and an image with ALT you know, defined -469 +466 00:26:12,727 --> 00:26:13,086 at all. -470 +467 00:26:15,707 --> 00:26:20,286 Todd: So. if it's okay. Let's use a logo. As an example, if -471 +468 00:26:20,286 --> 00:26:24,865 you have -472 +469 00:26:25,287 --> 00:26:31,257 empty ALT text on your logo, and it's also linked, the screen -473 +470 00:26:31,257 --> 00:26:39,116 reader will read that link and you don't want that to read it. -474 +471 00:26:39,326 --> 00:26:45,382 You don't want it to. It doesn't really need to, I mean, there's -475 +472 00:26:45,382 --> 00:26:51,352 cases where somebody may say, yeah, I want the person to know -476 +473 00:26:51,352 --> 00:26:53,901 what the logo looks like, but if -it's not really necessary, um, +it's not really necessary, -477 +474 00:26:53,901 --> 00:26:56,450 no -478 +475 00:26:56,451 --> 00:27:04,342 ALT text, you know, it's the screen reader. Won't read -479 +476 00:27:04,342 --> 00:27:07,994 anything and. As far as I know. And I'll be the first to say, -480 +477 00:27:07,994 --> 00:27:11,646 I'm -481 +478 00:27:11,646 --> 00:27:13,986 not an expert by any means with screen readers, because this is -482 +479 00:27:13,986 --> 00:27:16,326 a -483 +480 00:27:16,326 --> 00:27:19,836 lot of different stuff. I've been learning lately, but to -484 +481 00:27:19,836 --> 00:27:23,346 mine, to -485 +482 00:27:23,346 --> 00:27:30,096 my recollection, anyways, an empty. So the end. So no alt -486 +483 00:27:30,096 --> 00:27:35,872 texts. Let me get this straight. No, ALT text, the URL will be -487 +484 00:27:35,872 --> 00:27:37,311 read to the image. -488 +485 00:27:39,307 --> 00:27:40,507 Dan: Okay. Yeah. That's the big difference. All right. That's -489 +486 00:27:40,507 --> 00:27:41,707 the -490 +487 00:27:41,707 --> 00:27:42,126 part, I didn't know -491 +488 00:27:42,422 --> 00:27:43,321 Todd: Yes. Yup. -492 +489 00:27:43,356 --> 00:27:48,000 Dan: No ALT text at all, like no, ALT property defined. When a -493 +490 00:27:48,547 --> 00:27:50,797 screen reader is reading it, it'll come through normal texts -494 +491 00:27:50,826 --> 00:27:52,506 and then it'll just read like, blah, blah, blah dot JPEG. -495 +492 00:27:52,506 --> 00:27:54,186 Todd: Yes -496 +493 00:27:54,707 --> 00:27:55,686 Dan: Right Okay. That's it -497 +494 00:27:55,721 --> 00:27:59,892 Todd: And then the, the empty ALT is silent. So that's. -498 +495 00:27:59,961 --> 00:28:01,191 Dan: It'll that tells it to skip right over it, which is you -499 +496 00:28:01,191 --> 00:28:02,421 want. -500 +497 00:28:02,422 --> 00:28:04,432 Sometimes like, sometimes that is the preferred thing or like -501 +498 00:28:04,432 --> 00:28:06,442 the -502 +499 00:28:06,442 --> 00:28:09,652 decorative image where it's a background image or something -503 +500 00:28:09,652 --> 00:28:12,832 like that, or, background, but like, you know, sometimes it's -504 +501 00:28:12,832 --> 00:28:14,872 just used for decoration. Doesn't need to convey actually -505 +502 00:28:14,872 --> 00:28:17,352 information. and so in those cases, putting an empty, alt -506 +503 00:28:17,352 --> 00:28:19,832 like -507 +504 00:28:19,832 --> 00:28:24,862 ALT equals, you know, empty string. Is is actually very good -508 +505 00:28:24,862 --> 00:28:28,521 and much like very good for accessibility because otherwise -509 +506 00:28:28,521 --> 00:28:32,632 they're going to see probably a very long URL with dot JPEG, -510 +507 00:28:32,991 --> 00:28:34,311 which means nothing to them. Right. -511 +508 00:28:34,382 --> 00:28:35,491 Todd: Yes. Exactly. -512 +509 00:28:35,721 --> 00:28:38,211 -Dan: Oh, that's great. Um, -that's one of those things that. +Dan: Oh, that's great. that's +one of those things that. -513 +510 00:28:38,211 --> 00:28:40,701 And -514 +511 00:28:40,701 --> 00:28:44,541 I've seen a lot of people. This is a separate topic, like that, -515 +512 00:28:44,541 --> 00:28:48,711 that little, like, pick that little bit, just, just even just -516 +513 00:28:48,711 --> 00:28:52,642 ALT getting like your head wrapped around how to deal with -517 +514 00:28:52,682 --> 00:28:56,932 -alt, ALT texts. Um, like you -said, makes can make a huge +ALT- ALT texts. like you said, +makes can make a huge -518 +515 00:28:56,932 --> 00:29:00,501 difference for accessibility making a for your users. oh, -519 +516 00:29:00,501 --> 00:29:01,132 that's really cool. -520 +517 00:29:02,376 --> 00:29:03,636 Bekah: And you were talking about one of the big problems -521 +518 00:29:03,636 --> 00:29:04,896 being -522 +519 00:29:04,896 --> 00:29:09,727 color contrast. And that seems like something that could be -523 +520 00:29:09,727 --> 00:29:15,636 pretty simple to identify with a -Lighthouse audit. Um, can you +Lighthouse audit. Can you -524 +521 00:29:15,636 --> 00:29:18,606 explain what a Lighthouse audit is? And if you're like, that's -525 +522 00:29:18,606 --> 00:29:21,787 not the way to go. This other -method is better. Um, I would +method is better. I would -526 +523 00:29:21,787 --> 00:29:22,207 love to hear as well. -527 +524 00:29:23,862 --> 00:29:26,786 Todd: So, I mean, I've used Lighthouse before. I don't -528 +525 00:29:26,786 --> 00:29:29,710 really -529 +526 00:29:29,711 --> 00:29:32,186 rely on lighthouse. Lighthouse runs off of Axe-core and which -530 +527 00:29:32,186 --> 00:29:34,661 is -531 +528 00:29:34,662 --> 00:29:42,132 great, but I don't think it really gets to the root of every -532 +529 00:29:42,521 --> 00:29:49,301 -issue. And it really can't. Uh, -plus you have false positives, +issue. And it really can't. plus +you have false positives, -533 +530 00:29:49,301 --> 00:29:52,692 which is, you know, something, it, for example, I was just -534 +531 00:29:52,692 --> 00:29:55,932 talking about this on the, in -the, in the Slack, uh, Virtual +the, in the Slack, Virtual -535 +532 00:29:55,932 --> 00:29:58,699 Coffee Slack. False positives for color contrast, you know, -536 +533 00:29:58,699 --> 00:30:01,466 I've -537 +534 00:30:01,467 --> 00:30:04,737 come across instances where it will flag color, contrast -538 +535 00:30:04,737 --> 00:30:08,007 errors, -539 +536 00:30:08,007 --> 00:30:13,676 but the color contrast is far exceeds the 4.5 to one ratio. So -540 +537 00:30:14,126 --> 00:30:16,767 I don't really rely on Lighthouse. I mean, it's a good -541 +538 00:30:16,767 --> 00:30:18,701 tool. Don't get me wrong because there's that performance piece -542 +539 00:30:18,701 --> 00:30:20,635 to -543 +540 00:30:20,636 --> 00:30:25,693 it that I really, really like, -uh, using and, um, As far as, +using and, As far as, -544 +541 00:30:25,693 --> 00:30:30,750 you -545 +542 00:30:30,751 --> 00:30:34,301 know, it's a good tool, don't get me wrong, but I use, and I -546 +543 00:30:34,301 --> 00:30:37,851 used -547 +544 00:30:37,852 --> 00:30:40,432 to use it. I used to use it myself. I mean, I used it on my -548 +545 00:30:40,432 --> 00:30:42,801 site and was like, yeah, one hundreds. I got one hundreds -549 +546 00:30:42,801 --> 00:30:46,342 across the board and you know, that, that virtual confetti -550 +547 00:30:46,342 --> 00:30:53,471 -flying everywhere. But, um, the -tools that I use would be, um, +flying everywhere. But, the +tools that I use would be, -551 +548 00:30:56,067 --> 00:30:59,711 It's a contrast hyphen ratio.com, which is Lea Verou, -552 +549 00:30:59,711 --> 00:31:03,355 -uh, color +color -553 +550 00:31:03,356 --> 00:31:06,716 -contrast site. I also use, um, -the, let me look, I have it on +contrast site. I also use, the, +let me look, I have it on -554 +551 00:31:06,716 --> 00:31:10,076 my -555 +552 00:31:10,076 --> 00:31:12,836 other machine here, the color contrast analyzer. And that is -556 +553 00:31:12,836 --> 00:31:15,596 by -557 +554 00:31:15,747 --> 00:31:18,926 The Paciello Group. So Steven Faulkner has based on the -558 +555 00:31:18,926 --> 00:31:22,105 Windows -559 +556 00:31:22,106 --> 00:31:24,131 version, the Mac iOS version was -developed by somebody else. Uh, +developed by somebody else. -560 +557 00:31:24,131 --> 00:31:26,156 I -561 +558 00:31:26,156 --> 00:31:33,926 -use that, that tool as well. Um, -and I will provide, uh, the link +use that, that tool as well. and +I will provide, the link -562 +559 00:31:33,926 --> 00:31:34,497 to that. -563 +560 00:31:35,414 --> 00:31:37,419 Bekah: This great, I'm like really looking forward, it could -564 +561 00:31:37,419 --> 00:31:40,598 diving into a lot of these resources that you are dropping -565 +562 00:31:40,598 --> 00:31:43,043 right now. Cause I think sometimes it's hard to know -566 +563 00:31:43,043 --> 00:31:45,488 where -567 +564 00:31:45,489 --> 00:31:51,068 to start. And, I think that's just a problem with teaching -568 +565 00:31:51,429 --> 00:31:54,413 developers in general. There's not a focus on it. It's not -569 +566 00:31:54,413 --> 00:31:57,397 built -570 +567 00:31:57,429 --> 00:32:07,118 -into most curriculums and, um, -at all. And so there's a lack of +into most curriculums and, at +all. And so there's a lack of -571 +568 00:32:07,118 --> 00:32:11,773 focus, I think, as a result of that. And then not knowing where -572 +569 00:32:11,773 --> 00:32:16,114 to start, or if you're with a company that doesn't look at -573 +570 00:32:16,114 --> 00:32:18,668 those things, then I think it can be, you can find yourself a -574 +571 00:32:18,668 --> 00:32:21,222 while -575 +572 00:32:21,223 --> 00:32:27,223 down the path and and not know what you should be identifying, -576 +573 00:32:27,223 --> 00:32:30,374 how you should be approaching this. And so the more that we -577 +574 00:32:30,374 --> 00:32:35,084 talk about it, I think the -better, um, where do you think +better, where do you think -578 +575 00:32:35,534 --> 00:32:39,044 people could get started if they want to learn more about -579 +576 00:32:39,044 --> 00:32:39,403 accessiblity? -580 +577 00:32:40,094 --> 00:32:44,378 Todd: So the W three C has a -great, um, intro to +great, intro to -581 +578 00:32:44,378 --> 00:32:48,662 accessibility -582 +579 00:32:48,692 --> 00:32:52,982 class, which I believe is still free. And yeah, it's an -583 +580 00:32:53,042 --> 00:32:55,947 Introduction to Web Accessibility on edex.org. And, -584 +581 00:32:55,947 --> 00:32:58,852 -uh, I took that +I took that -585 +582 00:32:58,853 --> 00:33:01,450 -class even. Um, and it was it's -great. Uh, you can pace +class even. and it was it's +great. you can pace -586 +583 00:33:01,450 --> 00:33:04,047 yourself. -587 +584 00:33:04,528 --> 00:33:07,092 Doesn't have to be real fast is no, you know, there's no due -588 +585 00:33:07,092 --> 00:33:09,656 date -589 +586 00:33:09,657 --> 00:33:11,907 or anything. There's a free version. If you want a -590 +587 00:33:11,907 --> 00:33:17,877 certificate, you got to pay a -certain amount. Um, it's like if +certain amount. it's like if -591 +588 00:33:17,877 --> 00:33:21,238 you put in four to five hours a week, it's like for four weeks -592 +589 00:33:21,238 --> 00:33:27,373 -long, uh, to do. It gives a good +long, to do. It gives a good overview of, excuse me, -593 +590 00:33:27,373 --> 00:33:30,868 accessibility, and you know, some of the guidelines there's, -594 +591 00:33:30,868 --> 00:33:34,363 -um, a +a -595 +592 00:33:34,363 --> 00:33:40,542 lot of good information on the -web, uh, and, uh, even have to +web, and, even have to -596 +593 00:33:40,542 --> 00:33:44,532 pitch Nobility's website and their blog. They go over some of -597 +594 00:33:44,532 --> 00:33:50,337 -the, uh, WCAG guidelines and +the, WCAG guidelines and accessibility is also, I want to -598 +595 00:33:50,337 --> 00:33:52,707 make this clear, accessibility is more than just WCAG -599 +596 00:33:52,707 --> 00:33:55,077 guidelines. -600 +597 00:33:55,438 --> 00:34:01,647 -Um, it's also about inclusive -design as well. Um, making sure, +It's also about inclusive design +as well. Making sure, -601 +598 00:34:01,917 --> 00:34:07,048 you know, certain demographics aren't, you know, kept out that, -602 +599 00:34:07,048 --> 00:34:12,117 -that everybody's included, um, -hence the name inclusive design. +that everybody's included, hence +the name inclusive design. -603 +600 00:34:12,447 --> 00:34:21,768 -Um, but, um, Some other, um, -let's see. That's a good +But, Some other, let's see. +That's a good -604 +601 00:34:21,768 --> 00:34:24,797 question. Cause there's so much, I mean, I guess, you know, a -605 +602 00:34:24,797 --> 00:34:31,728 search would come up with a lot of different things. WebAIM.org -606 +603 00:34:31,797 --> 00:34:36,027 has some good stuff. As far as accessibility, learning -607 +604 00:34:36,027 --> 00:34:43,018 -accessibility, um, level access -does, uh, let's see who else. +accessibility, level access +does, let's see who else. -608 +605 00:34:44,327 --> 00:34:47,310 TPGI has good stuff. So there's, there's a lot out there that, -609 +606 00:34:47,310 --> 00:34:50,293 you -610 +607 00:34:50,293 --> 00:34:54,913 know, people can find on, you know, even there's even like -611 +608 00:34:54,913 --> 00:35:00,943 courses on, I guess Udemy and platforms like that as well. -612 +609 00:35:03,853 --> 00:35:06,613 Bekah: So ki- this has kind of been your focus the entire time -613 +610 00:35:06,613 --> 00:35:09,373 you've -614 +611 00:35:09,373 --> 00:35:15,373 been working in tech. Was there a reason that you went down this -615 +612 00:35:15,373 --> 00:35:17,877 path or, or something that kind of inspired this journey? Or -616 +613 00:35:17,877 --> 00:35:20,381 have -617 +614 00:35:20,382 --> 00:35:22,463 you just always been interested in it? -618 +615 00:35:24,333 --> 00:35:30,722 -Todd: Uh, it started when a -couple of family members, I have +Todd: It started when a couple +of family members, I have -619 +616 00:35:30,722 --> 00:35:36,603 like three family members that -have disabilities, um, two have +have disabilities, two have -620 +617 00:35:36,603 --> 00:35:45,012 motor skill disabilities, one visual and. Seeing the looks of -621 +618 00:35:45,012 --> 00:35:48,342 frustration on their faces when they're trying to access -622 +619 00:35:48,342 --> 00:35:52,842 something that's inaccessible on the web really got me motivated -623 +620 00:35:52,842 --> 00:36:01,362 in the beginning and carries me -to this day. Really. Um, I kind +to this day. Really. I kind -624 +621 00:36:01,362 --> 00:36:08,916 of towards like 2018, 2019 was kind of like. I guess slacking -625 +622 00:36:08,916 --> 00:36:11,631 off a little bit with my accessibility, but I get -626 +623 00:36:11,631 --> 00:36:14,346 together -627 +624 00:36:14,347 --> 00:36:17,197 with our friend, Chris DeMars in Burlington, Vermont. There was -628 +625 00:36:17,197 --> 00:36:20,047 a, -629 +626 00:36:20,106 --> 00:36:27,811 there was a conference and. You know, he gave a great talk and -630 +627 00:36:27,992 --> 00:36:32,972 that really lit the fire again. So there's been a really, it's -631 +628 00:36:32,972 --> 00:36:38,911 been like laser, like focus for me as far as, since then. And, -632 +629 00:36:38,942 --> 00:36:41,896 -um, just the looks of -frustration on faces of people +just the looks of frustration on +faces of people -633 +630 00:36:41,896 --> 00:36:44,850 that I've -634 +631 00:36:44,851 --> 00:36:49,831 seen, trying to access something that's inaccessible on the web. -635 +632 00:36:50,461 --> 00:36:58,416 -Yeah. It's just, it's very, um, -the word I'm looking for here, +Yeah. It's just, it's very, the +word I'm looking for here, -636 +633 00:36:58,956 --> 00:37:04,086 -very, uh, it hits home. It -really, you know, being that I +very, it hits home. It really, +you know, being that I -637 +634 00:37:04,086 --> 00:37:12,186 try to advocate for people that -don't have a voice. And, um, I +don't have a voice. And, I -638 +635 00:37:12,186 --> 00:37:17,452 think as, as accessibility, professional, We all, do we try -639 +636 00:37:17,452 --> 00:37:20,992 to advocate for those people? -Um, especially lately with +Especially lately with -640 +637 00:37:20,992 --> 00:37:24,532 certain, I -641 +638 00:37:24,532 --> 00:37:28,641 will use it in quotes, accessibility, overlays, for -642 +639 00:37:28,641 --> 00:37:35,331 -instance, but, um, yeah, that's +instance, but, yeah, that's basically where it all started -643 +640 00:37:35,331 --> 00:37:37,956 was just those family members and friends and just seeing -644 +641 00:37:37,956 --> 00:37:40,581 people, -645 +642 00:37:40,731 --> 00:37:45,711 -uh, yeah. Th the frustration and +yeah. Th- the frustration and the point where they're ready to -646 +643 00:37:45,711 --> 00:37:46,282 give up. -647 +644 00:37:47,967 --> 00:37:53,067 Bekah: Yeah, I, was just with -Chris last week. Um, he spoke at +Chris last week. He spoke at -648 +645 00:37:53,336 --> 00:37:58,117 KCDC. He along with Cass Ferris and they did an accessibility -649 +646 00:37:58,137 --> 00:38:00,777 talk. That was the first time I got to see him speak in person. -650 +647 00:38:01,422 --> 00:38:05,052 It was really great because they both come at it with a lot of -651 +648 00:38:05,052 --> 00:38:07,316 passion and examples. And I think for so many of us, we have -652 +649 00:38:07,316 --> 00:38:09,580 a -653 +650 00:38:09,581 --> 00:38:13,001 general sense of what accessibility is, but we don't -654 +651 00:38:13,001 --> 00:38:18,876 -have that broader sense of, uh, -you know, it might be. Um, there +have that broader sense of, you +know, it might be. there -655 +652 00:38:18,876 --> 00:38:23,257 might be a disability that you can't see, or it might be a -656 +653 00:38:23,257 --> 00:38:25,132 temporary disability or a mental health challenge that somebody -657 +654 00:38:25,132 --> 00:38:27,007 is -658 +655 00:38:27,007 --> 00:38:30,126 going through and all of those things can impact what -659 +656 00:38:30,126 --> 00:38:34,177 accessibility looks like. And if you really look at the people -660 +657 00:38:34,177 --> 00:38:39,681 -around you, you for sure know +around you- you for sure know someone that has one of those -661 +658 00:38:39,681 --> 00:38:43,492 -challenges or, or you have one +challenges or- or you have one yourself. And so, you know, -662 +659 00:38:43,521 --> 00:38:46,192 opening up the conversations about this, you know, like you -663 +660 00:38:46,192 --> 00:38:50,751 -have in, in like Chris and Cass +have in- in like Chris and Cass have, I think is so important to -664 +661 00:38:50,961 --> 00:38:53,902 -really making change in, in tech +really making change in- in tech overall. -665 +662 00:38:55,661 --> 00:38:58,871 Todd: Yeah, I, you, know, you you brought up invisible. -666 +663 00:39:01,766 --> 00:39:06,297 Disabilities. I have migraine -headaches. Uh, I get them when +headaches. I get them when -667 +664 00:39:06,297 --> 00:39:11,306 something sets off, if there's a website, I visit that as, you -668 +665 00:39:11,306 --> 00:39:17,306 know, animation or motion that really it's too much. And it's -669 +666 00:39:17,336 --> 00:39:20,757 triggers a migraine. I mean, there's all that stuff that you -670 +667 00:39:20,757 --> 00:39:26,541 mentioned and. Yeah. It's, you -know, uh, Chris is great. You +know, Chris is great. You -671 +668 00:39:26,541 --> 00:39:33,231 -know, I, I I've seen him talk, +know, I- I I've seen him talk, you know, virtually and then -672 +669 00:39:33,831 --> 00:39:37,132 before the pandemic and everything, and we've gotten to -673 +670 00:39:37,132 --> 00:39:39,306 know each other and he, you know, he does a great job -674 +671 00:39:39,306 --> 00:39:41,480 advocating. -675 +672 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,369 Bekah: yeah. I think, you know, even so a couple of years ago I -676 +673 00:39:44,369 --> 00:39:48,090 was diagnosed with ADHD and it's interesting how much I didn't -677 +674 00:39:48,090 --> 00:39:50,370 realize that impacts the things that I interact with and the -678 +675 00:39:50,370 --> 00:39:52,650 ways -679 +676 00:39:52,650 --> 00:39:56,965 that I interact with things. Maybe this is just a personal -680 +677 00:39:56,965 --> 00:39:59,905 problem, but this is the conversation between Discord and -681 +678 00:39:59,905 --> 00:40:04,135 Slack. For me, like I walk into Discord, I don't walk in there. -682 +679 00:40:04,494 --> 00:40:06,684 -Um, I open up Discord and it's +I open up Discord and it's immediately just overwhelming -683 +680 00:40:06,684 --> 00:40:08,874 and -684 +681 00:40:08,875 --> 00:40:11,514 I don't know where to go from there. And then I just like -685 +682 00:40:11,844 --> 00:40:15,655 slowly back out the door, right? Like there's too much going on -686 +683 00:40:15,655 --> 00:40:16,135 for me. -687 +684 00:40:16,356 --> 00:40:19,657 Todd: Yeah. That information overload happens to me as well. -688 +685 00:40:19,717 --> 00:40:28,811 -Um, it's like Slack and, uh, -Discord and. There's yeah, I was +It's like Slack and, Discord +and. There's yeah, I was -689 +686 00:40:28,811 --> 00:40:32,171 -on, I was watching a, uh, Twitch +on, I was watching a, Twitch stream yesterday and the chat -690 +687 00:40:32,171 --> 00:40:35,531 was -691 +688 00:40:35,532 --> 00:40:39,882 going off and I was just like, I just, I can't, I want to be able -692 +689 00:40:39,882 --> 00:40:44,112 to kind of read the chat and I can't because you know it, yeah. -693 +690 00:40:44,121 --> 00:40:46,481 The information overload is a big thing too. -694 +691 00:40:47,889 --> 00:40:52,929 Bekah: So I, you know, I think, -um, Your background, you talked +Your background, you talked -695 +692 00:40:52,929 --> 00:40:57,400 about your journey through this and it seems like you've been -696 +693 00:40:57,429 --> 00:40:59,679 mostly self-taught then, is that right? -697 +694 00:41:00,586 --> 00:41:03,248 -Todd: Yeah. Um, I started, when -I picked up that Commodore 64 +Todd: Yeah. I started, when I +picked up that Commodore 64 -698 +695 00:41:03,248 --> 00:41:05,910 user -699 +696 00:41:05,911 --> 00:41:09,841 manual. And just, I love to read and I read that. I had purchased -700 +697 00:41:09,841 --> 00:41:13,771 a -701 +698 00:41:13,771 --> 00:41:17,821 book. It was a Learn HTML in 21 days. And it was like a big, -702 +699 00:41:17,821 --> 00:41:21,871 huge -703 +700 00:41:21,902 --> 00:41:26,851 thick phone book, like manual. And I read through that. That's -704 +701 00:41:26,851 --> 00:41:33,242 how I actually made my first -website. Uh, not that I put it +website. Not that I put it -705 +702 00:41:33,242 --> 00:41:39,632 out on the web or anything, but -then I. Um, I graduated from +then I- I graduated from -706 +703 00:41:39,632 --> 00:41:41,761 there on, I went to Geo Cities and Angel Fire and Tripod and -707 +704 00:41:41,761 --> 00:41:43,890 all -708 +705 00:41:43,891 --> 00:41:46,922 those websites, if you remember those websites -709 +706 00:41:46,942 --> 00:41:47,612 -Dan: oh. Yeah. +Dan: Oh. Yeah. -710 +707 00:41:47,972 --> 00:41:52,411 Todd: and all the great, you know, lime green and pastel and, -711 +708 00:41:52,742 --> 00:41:56,559 you know, fluorescent colors. -Um, and then, you know, It's +and then, you know, It's -712 +709 00:41:56,559 --> 00:42:00,376 been a -713 +710 00:42:00,376 --> 00:42:04,847 learning process the entire time and I love to learn. So it's one -714 +711 00:42:04,847 --> 00:42:07,456 of those things where if I can pick up something in a Slack -715 +712 00:42:07,876 --> 00:42:13,427 group or on a Discord channel, that's great. I've, you know, I -716 +713 00:42:13,427 --> 00:42:19,947 keep learning every day and, you know, learning. Lately it's been -717 +714 00:42:19,947 --> 00:42:23,936 learning the intricacies of the WCAG guidelines because there's -718 +715 00:42:23,936 --> 00:42:26,756 -so much there. Um, and being -able to, and I'm grateful for +so much there. and being able +to, and I'm grateful for -719 +716 00:42:26,756 --> 00:42:29,576 this -720 +717 00:42:29,606 --> 00:42:36,177 being able to work on the next, I guess, version, which is 3.0, -721 +718 00:42:36,987 --> 00:42:41,097 which is a few years down the road has been a learning process -722 +719 00:42:41,097 --> 00:42:43,091 as well. And being a member of the W3C is too, and being in -723 +720 00:42:43,091 --> 00:42:45,085 those -724 +721 00:42:45,086 --> 00:42:49,902 meetings and. We're learning so much from a great group of -725 +722 00:42:49,902 --> 00:42:50,322 people. -726 +723 00:42:50,942 --> 00:42:52,547 Bekah: Yeah, that's awesome. I love that idea of just -727 +724 00:42:52,547 --> 00:42:54,152 consistent -728 +725 00:42:54,152 --> 00:42:55,636 learning and being open to learning all of the time, -729 +726 00:42:55,636 --> 00:42:57,120 because -730 +727 00:42:57,121 --> 00:43:02,161 I think no matter what part of tech or, or any industry really -731 +728 00:43:02,161 --> 00:43:05,612 that you're in the being open to learning new things and talking -732 +729 00:43:05,612 --> 00:43:07,697 through things with other people. and understanding is, -733 +730 00:43:07,697 --> 00:43:09,782 you know, -734 +731 00:43:09,782 --> 00:43:14,251 that that's what growing is about. That's what is important -735 +732 00:43:14,251 --> 00:43:14,882 to what you're doing. -736 +733 00:43:18,112 --> 00:43:23,001 Todd: Yeah. It's, you know, even I've, you know, learned, I -737 +734 00:43:23,001 --> 00:43:26,722 learned on Twitter as well, you know, I see something, a link to -738 +735 00:43:26,722 --> 00:43:30,262 an article or something and I check it out and it's like, oh, -739 +736 00:43:30,291 --> 00:43:37,981 well, you know, Today I learned, you know, and you know, I it's -740 +737 00:43:38,041 --> 00:43:40,591 it's, you know, there was a quote and I'll try to find that -741 +738 00:43:40,591 --> 00:43:43,141 quote -742 +739 00:43:43,172 --> 00:43:49,532 -because I love the quote. Um, it -had something to do with, uh, +because I love the quote. It had +something to do with, -743 +740 00:43:49,652 --> 00:43:57,601 doing something. Yeah, right -there. Um, "there are three +there. "There are three -744 +741 00:43:57,601 --> 00:44:03,976 things. Everyone should do every day. Number one is laugh. Number -745 +742 00:44:03,976 --> 00:44:09,407 two is think, spend some time in thought number three, you should -746 +743 00:44:09,407 --> 00:44:11,221 have your emotions, you to tears. If you laugh, think and -747 +744 00:44:11,221 --> 00:44:13,035 cry, -748 +745 00:44:13,036 --> 00:44:15,256 that's a heck of a day." And that was just like the best -749 +746 00:44:15,256 --> 00:44:17,476 quote. I -750 +747 00:44:17,476 --> 00:44:21,916 think I've seen it in a long, long time. I even add to that -751 +748 00:44:21,916 --> 00:44:23,137 learning one thing a day. -752 +749 00:44:23,873 --> 00:44:27,838 Bekah: Yeah. I love that so much. I didn't think, you know, -753 +750 00:44:27,869 --> 00:44:30,133 learning things on Twitter for me has been really big as well. -754 +751 00:44:30,133 --> 00:44:32,397 Even -755 +752 00:44:32,398 --> 00:44:36,239 when somebody just has a small portion of a tweet at, for some -756 +753 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,329 reason, it sticks in my mind better than if I read a whole -757 +754 00:44:39,329 --> 00:44:42,418 article on that thing. And I think maybe because there's some -758 +755 00:44:42,418 --> 00:44:44,278 type of personal connection there. Oh, I remember that -759 +756 00:44:44,278 --> 00:44:46,138 person -760 +757 00:44:46,139 --> 00:44:48,929 said this one thing and it, you know, it might be some type of -761 +758 00:44:49,199 --> 00:44:53,338 coding tip or whatever, but I think that just be just sharing -762 +759 00:44:53,338 --> 00:44:57,568 -that knowledge or, or it's Hey, +that knowledge or- or it's Hey, I know that I could ask that -763 +760 00:44:57,568 --> 00:45:02,849 person. That question can be really helpful in finding the -764 +761 00:45:02,849 --> 00:45:07,768 answers to things or having more -confidence in, in being, being +confidence in- in being, being -765 +762 00:45:07,798 --> 00:45:09,298 able to ask questions. -766 -00:45:10,208 --> 00:45:17,648 -Todd: Yeah. It's it's, you know, -I use Twitter as a tool to say, +763 +00:45:10,208 --> 00:45:13,928 +Todd: Yeah. It's- it's, you +know, I use Twitter as a tool to -767 +764 +00:45:13,928 --> 00:45:17,648 +say, + +765 00:45:18,699 --> 00:45:22,358 -you know, oh, you, you mentioned +you know, oh, you- you mentioned something about the new, you -768 +766 00:45:22,358 --> 00:45:25,388 -know, um, whatever coming, -coming down the line. I've got a +know, whatever coming, coming +down the line. I've got a -769 +767 00:45:25,388 --> 00:45:28,418 couple -770 +768 00:45:28,418 --> 00:45:33,349 -of questions for you. Um, you -know, Hey, can I, you know, DM +of questions for you. You know, +Hey, can I, you know, DM -771 +769 00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:36,998 you, I got a question I need to ask and it reaching out to -772 +770 00:45:36,998 --> 00:45:40,869 somebody to, or to the person that, you know, had that tweet -773 +771 00:45:41,259 --> 00:45:44,243 -it's, uh, and, and Mos you know, -I don't think I've ever had +it's, and, and Most you know, I +don't think I've ever had -774 +772 00:45:44,243 --> 00:45:47,227 anybody -775 +773 00:45:47,228 --> 00:45:48,743 go no I don't want to tell you the answer or anything like -776 +774 00:45:48,743 --> 00:45:50,258 that. -777 +775 00:45:50,438 --> 00:45:55,418 -So, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's -always been, you know, Hey, you +So, yeah, it's, it's always +been, you know, Hey, you -778 +776 00:45:55,418 --> 00:46:00,074 know, I've got this question. People are more than, you know, -779 +777 00:46:00,943 --> 00:46:04,304 more than welcome to, to answer those questions. -780 +778 00:46:05,634 --> 00:46:07,943 Bekah: Yeah. And I think that's so big, especially when we're -781 +779 00:46:07,943 --> 00:46:11,244 talking about this topic. If you don't know it is okay to ask -782 +780 00:46:11,244 --> 00:46:13,208 somebody, Or ask someone just to -direct you, you know, I'm +direct you- you know, I'm -783 +781 00:46:13,208 --> 00:46:15,172 getting -784 +782 00:46:15,173 --> 00:46:17,003 started in this. It's not been a focus. How, how do I get -785 +783 00:46:17,003 --> 00:46:18,833 started? -786 +784 00:46:18,833 --> 00:46:20,798 What do I do? And dropped a lot of great resources here, but, -787 +785 00:46:20,798 --> 00:46:22,763 you -788 +786 00:46:22,764 --> 00:46:26,333 know, I think in, in every place and space we should, we should -789 +787 00:46:26,333 --> 00:46:27,893 know that it is okay to ask about these things. And it's -790 +788 00:46:27,893 --> 00:46:29,453 good to do -791 +789 00:46:29,454 --> 00:46:29,813 that. -792 +790 00:46:30,429 --> 00:46:32,393 Todd: Yeah, definitely. You know, I tell people, you know, -793 +791 00:46:32,393 --> 00:46:34,357 if you -794 +792 00:46:34,358 --> 00:46:35,738 have a question about accessibility, I'll do my best -795 +793 00:46:35,738 --> 00:46:37,118 to -796 +794 00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:38,903 answer. If I can't answer it, I will find somebody that can, or -797 +795 00:46:38,903 --> 00:46:40,687 I -798 +796 00:46:40,688 --> 00:46:42,103 will look it up and see if I can get you the answer, because -799 +797 00:46:42,103 --> 00:46:43,518 it's, -800 +798 00:46:43,518 --> 00:46:45,490 -it's, it's that little, you +it's- it's that little, you know, it's that being helpful? -801 +799 00:46:45,490 --> 00:46:47,462 And -802 +800 00:46:47,463 --> 00:46:50,364 again, making, you know, making sure that person has that -803 +801 00:46:50,364 --> 00:46:54,594 information for me anyways, is, is big. And, you know, just -804 +802 00:46:54,594 --> 00:46:57,684 saying, you know, feeling good about being able to help people. -805 +803 00:46:59,293 --> 00:47:01,364 Bekah: Yeah, for sure. That's so important. -806 +804 00:47:01,364 --> 00:47:02,224 Dan: I love it. -807 +805 00:47:03,773 --> 00:47:05,295 Bekah: Todd we have about one, a time for one more question. And, -808 +806 00:47:05,295 --> 00:47:06,817 and -809 +807 00:47:06,818 --> 00:47:07,958 I'd love to hear what you have to say about this. Cause I know -810 +808 00:47:07,958 --> 00:47:09,098 that -811 +809 00:47:09,099 --> 00:47:12,699 there still are companies out -there that are, um, have some +there that are, have some -812 +810 00:47:12,699 --> 00:47:18,398 pushback about paying for making things accessible, or they say -813 +811 00:47:18,398 --> 00:47:20,588 like, well, that's not our focus right now because we don't have -814 +812 00:47:20,588 --> 00:47:22,628 the time or the money to do that. How would you that -815 +813 00:47:22,628 --> 00:47:24,668 situation? Or, -816 +814 00:47:24,818 --> 00:47:26,228 you know, maybe if you were a developer consulting on that, -817 +815 00:47:26,228 --> 00:47:27,638 you -818 +816 00:47:27,639 --> 00:47:30,398 know, how would you kind of convince them that this, this -819 +817 00:47:30,398 --> 00:47:31,179 should be a priority? -820 +818 00:47:31,643 --> 00:47:36,463 Todd: Okay. Funny. You mentioned that. Cause I wrote a article, -821 +819 00:47:36,824 --> 00:47:42,164 -uh, about that and it's on -smashing magazine. So I'll get +about that and it's on smashing +magazine. So I'll get -822 +820 00:47:42,164 --> 00:47:46,981 that. Link to you as well. It's a very tricky slope sometimes. -823 -00:47:46,981 --> 00:47:51,798 -Um, - -824 +821 00:47:51,858 --> 00:47:55,608 you know, I've heard people for instance say, well, you don't -825 +822 00:47:55,608 --> 00:48:00,534 want to get sued. And that kind of. Perks up stakeholders ears -826 +823 00:48:00,534 --> 00:48:03,353 and says, oh, you know, well, I guess we're going to have to do -827 +824 00:48:03,353 --> 00:48:14,934 this. Me. I use real world examples of, for instance, I ran -828 +825 00:48:14,934 --> 00:48:21,083 into a stakeholder on a project. and I said, we've got to make -829 +826 00:48:21,083 --> 00:48:24,054 sure accessibility is done from the very beginning of the -830 +827 00:48:24,054 --> 00:48:27,773 project. He turned to me and said, we don't have disabled -831 +828 00:48:27,773 --> 00:48:30,503 users. I in turn said to him, you're wearing eyeglasses, -832 +829 00:48:30,503 --> 00:48:33,233 that's -833 +830 00:48:33,233 --> 00:48:38,454 an assistive technology and he kind of perked up, but I'd, -834 +831 00:48:38,454 --> 00:48:40,928 hadn't convinced him. So the, you know, there's some people -835 +832 00:48:40,928 --> 00:48:43,402 that -836 +833 00:48:43,403 --> 00:48:47,934 can be very stubborn. So I went as far as to say, you know, -837 +834 00:48:48,534 --> 00:48:50,754 somebody's working. You know, using your product, they can -838 +835 00:48:50,754 --> 00:48:52,974 have -839 +836 00:48:52,974 --> 00:48:55,554 a broken arm, it could be a situational disability. They -840 +837 00:48:55,563 --> 00:48:58,224 could have a broken arm. They could be at home working with a -841 +838 00:48:58,224 --> 00:49:02,094 child on their lap. That's very fussy. I've been there a long -842 +839 00:49:02,094 --> 00:49:05,403 time ago. I know that feeling and I, you know, I know Bekah, -843 +840 00:49:05,403 --> 00:49:08,712 you're -844 +841 00:49:08,713 --> 00:49:10,753 a parent. I don't know if you're a parent, Dan, but. -845 +842 00:49:10,853 --> 00:49:11,253 Dan: Hell yeah. -846 +843 00:49:11,753 --> 00:49:15,264 -Todd: Yeah. Yeah. So you both +Todd: Yeah- Yeah. So you both know that, you know, you have a -847 +844 00:49:15,264 --> 00:49:18,563 child on your lap and they're fussy, you know, and you're -848 +845 00:49:18,563 --> 00:49:22,164 trying to answer an email or something. It's very difficult. -849 +846 00:49:22,164 --> 00:49:26,408 So, you know, getting teams on board is another thing too, -850 +847 00:49:26,408 --> 00:49:30,652 where -851 +848 00:49:30,684 --> 00:49:35,918 getting somebody. A person dedicated to doing accessibility -852 +849 00:49:35,918 --> 00:49:39,338 on the design side, on the development side, on the -853 +850 00:49:39,338 --> 00:49:45,009 marketing side. That helps too. But the main thing is getting -854 +851 00:49:45,009 --> 00:49:47,604 stakeholders on board. If you can get a stakeholder on board, -855 +852 00:49:47,604 --> 00:49:50,199 then -856 +853 00:49:50,318 --> 00:49:52,703 it should be much, much easier to get the entire organization -857 +854 00:49:52,703 --> 00:49:55,088 on -858 +855 00:49:55,088 --> 00:49:55,498 board. -859 +856 00:49:57,268 --> 00:49:58,433 Bekah: Yeah, that's great. I love that. You know, it all -860 +857 00:49:58,433 --> 00:49:59,598 comes down -861 +858 00:49:59,599 --> 00:50:03,228 to listening and being open-minded right. If we work -862 +859 00:50:03,228 --> 00:50:05,238 towards understanding each other, then we can all do a -863 +860 00:50:05,238 --> 00:50:07,248 whole lot -864 +861 00:50:07,248 --> 00:50:09,139 more to improve things for everyone. -865 +862 00:50:10,478 --> 00:50:15,188 Todd: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yep. I've heard it, -866 +863 00:50:15,998 --> 00:50:19,268 I've heard it before. We don't have the budget, you know, we'll -867 +864 00:50:19,268 --> 00:50:26,418 get to it after launch. Well, that brings me back to. Yep. If -868 +865 00:50:26,418 --> 00:50:28,998 you do everything from the beginning, you will have the -869 +866 00:50:28,998 --> 00:50:33,108 money for it and you know, it will be less stressed, so, yeah. -870 +867 00:50:33,148 --> 00:50:35,188 Dan: don't need to pay for it. Find the budget to pay for a -871 +868 00:50:35,188 --> 00:50:38,454 whole round of. You know, auditing and stuff. -872 +869 00:50:39,208 --> 00:50:45,298 Todd: Right. Yeah. And auditing. So I'll use an example of a -873 +870 00:50:45,298 --> 00:50:53,664 company that got sued and what they could have. What they could -874 +871 00:50:53,664 --> 00:50:55,643 have spent just with, you know, doing it from the beginning, -875 +872 00:50:55,643 --> 00:50:57,622 they -876 +873 00:50:57,623 --> 00:51:00,713 ended up paying seven figures for an audit. So that should -877 +874 00:51:00,713 --> 00:51:03,803 tell you -878 +875 00:51:03,804 --> 00:51:05,634 something about that process. -879 +876 00:51:06,099 --> 00:51:07,149 Bekah: Right. And it shouldn't ever have to come to that. -880 +877 00:51:07,149 --> 00:51:08,199 That's -881 +878 00:51:08,648 --> 00:51:10,989 know, absolutely ridiculous. -882 +879 00:51:11,494 --> 00:51:11,793 Todd: Yeah. -883 +880 00:51:12,728 --> 00:51:14,768 Bekah: But I'm so glad that you were here today to talk us -884 +881 00:51:14,768 --> 00:51:17,228 through this and drop all of these great resources. And I -885 +882 00:51:17,228 --> 00:51:19,283 really hope that, you know, it helps people who are listening -886 +883 00:51:19,283 --> 00:51:21,338 to -887 +884 00:51:22,059 --> 00:51:24,878 work through the stuff. And to know that it's okay to ask -888 +885 00:51:24,878 --> 00:51:30,233 questions. And to Grow and learn -more all the time. Um, so we'll +more all the time. So we'll -889 +886 00:51:30,233 --> 00:51:33,563 make sure that we drop all those links in the show notes. And -890 +887 00:51:33,713 --> 00:51:35,634 thanks so much for being here with us today. Todd -891 +888 00:51:36,474 --> 00:51:37,134 Todd: Well, thank you. -892 +889 00:51:37,173 --> 00:51:38,074 Dan: Really appreciate it too. -893 +890 00:51:38,483 --> 00:51:39,804 Todd: Yeah. Thank you both for having me -894 +891 00:51:40,844 --> 00:51:41,483 Bekah: Bye. -895 +892 00:51:41,824 --> 00:51:44,023 -Dan: alright, bye Todd. +Dan: Alright, bye Todd. -896 +893 00:51:44,684 --> 00:51:44,873 Todd: Bye -897 +894 00:51:46,646 --> 00:51:48,956 Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual -898 +895 00:51:48,956 --> 00:51:52,476 Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah -899 +896 00:51:52,496 --> 00:51:55,657 Hawrot Weigel, and was edited by Andy Bonjour at GoodDay -900 +897 00:51:55,677 --> 00:51:58,467 Communications. If you have questions or comments, you can -901 +898 00:51:58,467 --> 00:52:01,706 hit us up on Twitter at VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at -902 +899 00:52:01,706 --> 00:52:04,136 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up -903 +900 00:52:04,136 --> 00:52:06,566 for -904 +901 00:52:06,567 --> 00:52:08,907 our newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our -905 +902 00:52:08,907 --> 00:52:11,141 website at virtualcoffee.io. And of course join us for our -906 +903 00:52:11,141 --> 00:52:13,375 Virtual -907 +904 00:52:13,376 --> 00:52:16,226 Coffee Chats every Tuesday at 9 -am Eastern and Thursday at +AM Eastern and Thursday at -908 +905 00:52:16,226 --> 00:52:18,024 -12 pm Eastern Please subscribe +12 PM Eastern Please subscribe to our podcast and be -909 +906 00:52:18,024 --> 00:52:19,822 sure to -910 +907 00:52:19,822 --> 00:52:22,882 leave us a review. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next -911 +908 00:52:22,882 --> 00:52:23,213 week! \ No newline at end of file From c05c5d293f6f56ae53cae1ecd940bbe67fa339ac Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Chris Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 00:10:40 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 04/13] first pass on 3_9 transcription --- episodes/3_9.srt | 3015 +++++++++++++++++++++++----------------------- 1 file changed, 1537 insertions(+), 1478 deletions(-) diff --git a/episodes/3_9.srt b/episodes/3_9.srt index efc82c7..aee7547 100644 --- a/episodes/3_9.srt +++ b/episodes/3_9.srt @@ -1,4718 +1,4777 @@ 1 -00:00:05,219 --> 00:00:08,278 -Kirk: Hello, and welcome to -season three, episode nine of +00:00:05,219 --> 00:00:06,748 +Kirk Shillingford: Hello, and +welcome to season 3, episode 9 2 +00:00:06,748 --> 00:00:08,277 +of + +3 00:00:08,278 --> 00:00:12,817 the Virtual Coffee podcast. I'm definitely Bekah. -3 +4 00:00:13,157 --> 00:00:15,137 And this is a podcast that features members of the -4 +5 00:00:15,147 --> 00:00:19,934 Virtual Coffee community. Virtual Coffee is an intimate -5 +6 00:00:17,204 --> 00:00:20,925 group of devs at all stages of their coding journey. -6 +7 00:00:21,135 --> 00:00:23,265 And they're here on this podcast, sharing their stories. -7 +8 00:00:23,265 --> 00:00:25,725 And what they've learned, we're here to share with you. -8 +9 00:00:26,085 --> 00:00:28,364 Here with me today is my cohost, Dan. -9 +10 00:00:29,304 --> 00:00:33,003 -Dan: Um, thanks. Definitely -Bekah. +Dan Ott: Thanks. [Laughter] +Definitely Bekah. -10 +11 00:00:33,003 --> 00:00:35,899 -Uh, today we have, uh, a special -episode is the last +Today we have, a special episode +is the last -11 +12 00:00:35,899 --> 00:00:40,999 episode of season three. And so we are here with -12 +13 00:00:37,789 --> 00:00:44,368 Kirk Shillingford one of our community maintainers -13 -00:00:40,999 --> 00:00:48,259 -and Bekah is actually here. -Bekah is here and fake Bekah, - 14 +00:00:40,999 --> 00:00:44,499 +and Bekah is also actually here. +Real Bekah is here and fake + +15 +00:00:44,499 --> 00:00:47,000 +Bekah, + +16 +00:00:47,025 --> 00:00:47,999 +Kirk: I am definatly here. + +17 00:00:44,819 --> 00:00:54,198 -all the Bekahs are here. Um, so +Dan: All the Bekahs are here. so we have some exciting -15 +18 00:00:50,959 --> 00:00:58,774 stuff coming up where you are, -um, about to kick into some of +about to kick into some of -16 +19 00:00:54,228 --> 00:01:01,334 our Hacktoberfest preparations. And so we thought we would talk -17 +20 00:00:58,814 --> 00:01:04,534 a little bit about Hacktoberfest last year and what we have going -18 +21 00:01:01,353 --> 00:01:07,683 on this year, as well as just wrap up the season our podcast. -19 +22 00:01:08,073 --> 00:01:10,894 We start every episode of the podcast like we start every -20 +23 00:01:10,894 --> 00:01:13,743 Virtual Coffee - we introduce ourselves with our name where -21 +24 00:01:13,743 --> 00:01:16,774 we're from, what we do and a random check-in question. -22 +25 00:01:17,224 --> 00:01:20,823 Today's question is if you had to teach one class on one thing -23 +26 00:01:20,823 --> 00:01:25,084 right now, what would you teach? We hope you enjoy this episode. -24 +27 00:01:33,115 --> 00:01:36,831 -Bekah: Hey. I'm Bekah, I'm a -front +Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Hey. I'm +Bekah, I'm a front -25 +28 00:01:34,370 --> 00:01:37,911 end developer from a small town in Ohio. -26 +29 00:01:38,421 --> 00:01:41,150 And if I had to teach one class right now, like my -27 +30 00:01:41,180 --> 00:01:43,521 initial go-to is like, well, I've taught English. -28 +31 00:01:43,581 --> 00:01:48,531 -I could do that. Um, but I, I -still +I could do that. but I- I still -29 +32 00:01:45,501 --> 00:01:49,281 don't want to, I'm still burnt out from that. -30 +33 00:01:49,611 --> 00:01:53,990 So I would probably, I don't know, like maybe a -31 +34 00:01:54,021 --> 00:02:01,251 -kettlebell class or, um, a -patients' rights course for +kettlebell class or, a patients' +rights course for -32 +35 00:02:01,251 --> 00:02:03,831 navigating the medical system. You know, -33 +36 00:02:04,805 --> 00:02:06,245 Dan: So like, that's going to be like, a, like a -34 +37 00:02:06,245 --> 00:02:07,296 four year degree for that. -35 +38 00:02:08,850 --> 00:02:08,911 Kirk: Yeah. -36 +39 00:02:10,311 --> 00:02:10,941 Bekah: That's what you get. -37 +40 00:02:11,445 --> 00:02:16,545 -Dan: Yeah. Fair enough. Um, hi, -I'm Dan I'm a front-end +Dan: Yeah. Fair enough. hi, I'm +Dan I'm a front-end -38 +41 00:02:13,186 --> 00:02:19,485 developer from Cleveland, Ohio, and a maintainer -39 +42 00:02:16,605 --> 00:02:22,786 -here at Virtual Coffee. And, um, +here at Virtual Coffee. And, yeah, if I had -40 +43 00:02:19,966 --> 00:02:25,395 to teach a class on one thing, I mean, I don't know. -41 +44 00:02:25,395 --> 00:02:27,735 There's, there's some computer stuff I could do, but I think -42 +45 00:02:27,735 --> 00:02:30,496 starting a fire would be my one. Did we do this before? -43 +46 00:02:30,825 --> 00:02:31,725 Now that I said that. -44 +47 00:02:32,270 --> 00:02:33,621 Bekah: Yeah. Now that you said that that was -45 +48 00:02:33,621 --> 00:02:34,251 familiar. -46 +49 00:02:35,256 --> 00:02:36,515 Dan: Oh, maybe we did it in a coffee. -47 +50 00:02:36,545 --> 00:02:40,506 I hope we didn't do it in a podcast. All right. -48 +51 00:02:40,506 --> 00:02:44,195 -Well, I'm sticking with it. Um, -you know, if we are +Well, I'm sticking with it. you +know, if we are -49 +52 00:02:41,436 --> 00:02:48,096 repeating questions in the podcast, please write in -50 +53 00:02:44,195 --> 00:02:51,876 -and blame, um, real Bekah who -you heard at the top +and blame, real Bekah who you +heard at the top -51 +54 00:02:48,216 --> 00:02:53,286 -of the episode, uh, or fake -Bekah just don't blame Dan. +of the episode, or fake Bekah +just don't blame Dan. -52 +55 00:02:53,346 --> 00:02:58,475 -Um, because, well, you know, I'm +Because, well, you know, I'm blameless, I'm blameless -53 +56 00:02:59,406 --> 00:03:00,725 in pretty much all situations. -54 +57 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:01,390 -Bekah: is false. +Bekah: That is false. -55 +58 00:03:01,992 --> 00:03:05,823 -Kirk: um, all right. This is +Kirk: All right. This is definitely Bekah. -56 +59 00:03:06,043 --> 00:03:12,013 Although sometimes you can call -me Kirk and, um, class. +me Kirk and, class. -57 +60 00:03:12,043 --> 00:03:18,872 I would teach you 100%. It would be Sudoku I would -58 +61 00:03:14,923 --> 00:03:21,872 teach you all about Sudoku, regular sort of who, -59 +62 00:03:18,992 --> 00:03:23,552 the different types, the different cool techniques. -60 +63 00:03:23,973 --> 00:03:26,013 That's a joke. They're all cool techniques. -61 +64 00:03:27,423 --> 00:03:29,582 yeah, that would, that would totally be my thing. -62 +65 00:03:29,582 --> 00:03:35,552 And it would be lots of fun. -And, um, if we did this +And, if we did this -63 +66 00:03:31,622 --> 00:03:36,812 question before, I didn't do this question before, so. -64 +67 00:03:37,635 --> 00:03:37,786 Bekah: I -65 +68 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:44,381 Dan: Fair enough. So the same. Do you have a, I do have my -66 +69 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:46,031 phone and I've never really like -found, uh, an app. +found, an app. that I love. -67 +70 00:03:48,311 --> 00:03:49,901 Kirk: I can recommend some good apps. -68 +71 00:03:50,610 --> 00:03:50,881 Dan: Okay. -69 +72 00:03:50,950 --> 00:03:52,700 Kirk: Well, I must clear, I have four Sudoku apps on -70 +73 00:03:52,700 --> 00:03:55,911 my phone, but each one is a different type of -71 +74 00:03:54,281 --> 00:03:55,911 Sudoku, so it's not. -72 +75 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,991 Dan: Hmm. Okay. Well, what I like, what's the, -73 +76 00:03:57,411 --> 00:04:01,700 what's your go-to app for the like class, like just classic -74 +77 00:04:01,945 --> 00:04:07,346 Kirk: Okay. I have one it's all bespoke -75 +78 00:04:02,186 --> 00:04:11,695 Sudoku, none of that and machine generated, you -76 +79 00:04:07,346 --> 00:04:15,145 know, printed press stuff, real artisan Sudokus, I'm -77 +80 00:04:11,776 --> 00:04:17,716 not even making that up, so, -78 +81 00:04:18,196 --> 00:04:19,125 Dan: Okay. Tell us what it's called. -79 +82 00:04:19,966 --> 00:04:27,050 Kirk: oh, I just called it WIS. It's called it's called -80 +83 00:04:24,591 --> 00:04:32,000 -classics and docu. Um, there's a +classic Sudoku. There's a YouTube channel called -81 +84 00:04:28,730 --> 00:04:38,661 cracking the cryptic where you -can watch two, um, English +can watch two, English -82 +85 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:40,071 -puzzle, masters solve Sudoku is +puzzle masters solve Sudoku is and a variety of other puzzles. -83 +86 00:04:40,071 --> 00:04:43,701 And it's just the most lovely thing in the world to watch -84 +87 00:04:43,701 --> 00:04:46,761 -a middle lake British man scoff, +a middle age British man scoff, a beautiful number. -85 +88 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,685 So, They produce their own app and they source it -86 +89 00:04:50,685 --> 00:04:53,086 from hustlers that we call people who make puzzles, -87 +90 00:04:53,086 --> 00:04:57,346 -puzzles in the community. And +puzzlers in the community. And also though, cause we're -88 +91 00:04:54,586 --> 00:04:58,605 really good an app, like helps you if you need to. -89 +92 00:04:58,605 --> 00:05:00,286 And it gives you like smart -pins, not just +hints, not just -90 +93 00:05:00,286 --> 00:05:03,315 like random hints. It's great. -It's good at classics in +It's good app classics in -91 +94 00:05:03,430 --> 00:05:04,031 Dan: So, -92 +95 00:05:04,125 --> 00:05:04,456 Kirk: the cryptic -93 +96 00:05:05,591 --> 00:05:11,110 Dan: so a puzzler is someone who creates the puzzles. Okay. -94 +97 00:05:11,110 --> 00:05:14,511 So what's what do you call somebody who solves puzzle? -95 +98 00:05:14,511 --> 00:05:14,940 Kirk: A Solver -96 +99 00:05:17,646 --> 00:05:18,305 Bekah: That was boring. -97 +100 00:05:19,091 --> 00:05:19,620 Dan: Most boring. -98 +101 00:05:20,586 --> 00:05:21,545 Kirk: It's told you about custom -99 +102 00:05:21,870 --> 00:05:25,471 Dan: I feel like, I feel like the Sudoku community needs to, -100 +103 00:05:25,471 --> 00:05:30,060 it needs to up their game, you know, for making a silly, well, -101 +104 00:05:30,060 --> 00:05:33,120 not silly, but a potential names for themselves, you know, it's -102 +105 00:05:33,750 --> 00:05:35,071 just not, it's just not there. -103 +106 00:05:35,146 --> 00:05:40,446 Kirk: therapies. We're trying to really upset around. -104 +107 00:05:41,475 --> 00:05:45,295 Bekah: well, speaking of puzzles and -105 +108 00:05:41,805 --> 00:05:46,545 games, Hacktoberfest sure seems like that too. -106 +109 00:05:48,576 --> 00:05:52,985 Except we have maintainers and contributors. See it's there. -107 +110 00:05:53,076 --> 00:05:56,915 That was a really good segue and everybody should -108 +111 00:05:54,995 --> 00:06:02,076 acknowledge that. So last year we did -109 +112 00:05:58,985 --> 00:06:06,185 Hacktoberfest for the first time, and that's kind of what -110 +113 00:06:02,076 --> 00:06:11,930 stands out in my mind as, as -the, uh, When, what, when we +the, When, what, when we -111 +114 00:06:06,216 --> 00:06:15,800 really kind of came into phase -two, a Virtual Coffee, um, when +two, a Virtual Coffee, when -112 +115 00:06:11,930 --> 00:06:19,880 we became something that wasn't just a pandemic group of people, -113 +116 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:22,610 what is a group of developers at all stages of the journey -114 +117 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:27,321 that would be around for awhile. -Um, and so, you know, +And so, you know, -115 +118 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:29,420 what, what we did last year, we had an issue. -116 +119 00:06:29,420 --> 00:06:33,500 -We helped, um, members get their +We helped, members get their first contribution -117 +120 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:36,380 -for Hacktoberfest, which had -Tobar Fest. +for Hacktoberfest, which +HacktoberFest. -118 +121 00:06:37,430 --> 00:06:42,920 -A month long focus on open +Is a month long focus on open source contributions that -119 +122 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:48,471 sponsored by digital ocean. And, -um, once you sign up, I +once you sign up, I -120 +123 00:06:45,290 --> 00:06:52,490 think you have to have four pull requests and then you can get a -121 +124 00:06:48,471 --> 00:06:55,670 t-shirt and stickers, but it's really fun and kind of a great -122 +125 00:06:52,490 --> 00:06:57,050 way to build community and to learn more about each other. -123 +126 00:06:57,500 --> 00:06:59,690 I know from my perspective, I -mean, I learned. +mean, I learned about. -124 +127 00:07:00,451 --> 00:07:05,630 Organizing this working with -mentors Um, and, +mentors contributors -125 +128 00:07:05,630 --> 00:07:08,370 -and it was my first time as a -maintainer as well. +And- and it was my first time as +a maintainer as well. -126 +129 00:07:08,370 --> 00:07:11,911 So, you know, there were so many lessons that, -127 +130 00:07:11,971 --> 00:07:18,841 that we learned last year. Maybe if we just talk about like -128 +131 00:07:13,860 --> 00:07:23,550 our favorite parts of year, and then we can move into what we're -129 +132 00:07:18,841 --> 00:07:25,230 taking from that into this year, -um, which I'm really excited. +Which I'm really excited. -130 +133 00:07:26,454 --> 00:07:33,805 -Dan: Yeah. Um, yes. So favorite +Dan: Yeah. yes. So favorite parts from last -131 +134 00:07:28,134 --> 00:07:38,694 -year, um, I enjoyed, you know, -last year we decided +year, I enjoyed, you know, last +year we decided -132 +135 00:07:33,805 --> 00:07:41,785 to use the website as one of our -repos, um, which meant +repos, which meant -133 +136 00:07:38,694 --> 00:07:45,774 we needed to make a website. So, -um, so we did that +so we did that -134 +137 00:07:42,415 --> 00:07:46,285 -pretty quickly and, um, +pretty quickly and, -135 +138 00:07:46,694 --> 00:07:47,714 -Bekah: you mean you. +Bekah: By we, you mean you. -136 +139 00:07:47,995 --> 00:07:53,689 -Dan: okay. The, the war, the +Dan: okay. The, the roy, the Royal we, -137 +140 00:07:48,535 --> 00:07:58,670 -and, um, One of the things that -we pulled together was, +And, One of the things that we +pulled together was, -138 +141 00:07:53,689 --> 00:08:01,759 -um, making it an, uh, an, an -issue for having people add +Making it an- an- an issue for +having people add -139 +142 00:07:58,670 --> 00:08:04,310 themselves to the, to their -members directory, um, via code. +members directory, via code. -140 +143 00:08:04,759 --> 00:08:09,199 And we created an issue and, you know, created, you -141 +144 00:08:09,199 --> 00:08:11,029 know, set up some guidelines and stuff like that. -142 +145 00:08:11,029 --> 00:08:13,399 And then had a kickoff meeting altogether where w where we -143 +146 00:08:13,399 --> 00:08:16,790 could get everybody going on, -um, submitting a poll request. +Submitting a pull request. -144 +147 00:08:17,540 --> 00:08:20,180 In a zoom meeting and that was a lot of fun. -145 +148 00:08:21,319 --> 00:08:25,370 -It was fun. We, we got, um, I -think +It was fun. We, we got, I think -146 +149 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:27,350 everybody got it done. We had, -um, shout out to Marie. +shout out to Marie. -147 +150 00:08:27,350 --> 00:08:30,199 I'm pretty sure who rescued me at one point because somebody -148 +151 00:08:30,199 --> 00:08:33,919 -was having problem with, um, git -on the command line and I don't +was having problem with, git on +the command line and I don't -149 +152 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:39,210 -use git on the command don't uh, +use git on the command don't, and so I didn't know how to, -150 +153 00:08:39,210 --> 00:08:42,440 -I'm a guy that I was like, I, I -mean, I, I made sure to before +I'm a guy that I was like, I- I +mean, I- I made sure to before -151 +154 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,830 -the event, um, practice, you -know, the very simple things. +the event, practice, you know, +the very simple things. -152 +155 00:08:46,669 --> 00:08:49,190 This was, we ran into something that was, wasn't simple on. -153 +156 00:08:49,220 --> 00:08:50,870 I had no idea. Marie swooped -154 +157 00:08:50,955 --> 00:08:51,014 Kirk: Yeah. -155 +158 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,250 Dan: with her superhero Cape -and, uh, rescued my rescued me. +and, rescued my rescued me. -156 +159 00:08:55,580 --> 00:08:56,840 -Um, so shout out to Marie for -that. +So shout out to Marie for that. -157 +160 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,620 -But, uh, it was a lot of fun. -Um, just the event the whole +But, it was a lot of fun. Just +the event the whole -158 +161 00:08:58,159 --> 00:09:03,529 -month was like that, uh, the -whole month, it was just, uh, +month was like that, the whole +month, it was just, -159 +162 00:09:00,620 --> 00:09:06,289 all members kind of ended up being excited and, and we had -160 +163 00:09:03,529 --> 00:09:11,700 a, it was fun to have a goal, you know, to everybody could -161 +164 00:09:06,409 --> 00:09:13,230 celebrate, you know, I dunno, it was fun, but yeah, that, -162 +165 00:09:11,700 --> 00:09:14,490 that first meeting is the thing that pops into my mind. -163 +166 00:09:14,580 --> 00:09:16,429 -Um, when I think of Virtual -Coffee last year and +When I think of Virtual Coffee +last year and -164 +167 00:09:16,429 --> 00:09:22,620 Hacktoberfest, what about you? Oh, I was trying to think -165 +168 00:09:20,070 --> 00:09:22,620 of a Keka that's awful. -166 +169 00:09:23,279 --> 00:09:25,230 Kirk: You can just, you can just go Kirk. -167 +170 00:09:27,004 --> 00:09:27,125 Bekah: Yeah. -168 +171 00:09:27,629 --> 00:09:32,220 -Kirk: Um, yeah, last, last +Kirk: Yeah, last- last Hacktoberfest, I mean, it -169 +172 00:09:32,220 --> 00:09:37,399 -was a lot of firsts for me. I, I +was a lot of firsts for me. I- I like, I think a lot -170 +173 00:09:34,379 --> 00:09:40,409 of people don't know this. My very first like open -171 +174 00:09:37,409 --> 00:09:42,470 source pull requests was just a couple months before. -172 +175 00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:47,370 On the self-defined project run by Tatyana Mack, -173 +176 00:09:47,399 --> 00:09:55,529 -who was super amazing. But, um, -I feel like I had +who was super amazing. But, I +feel like I had -174 +177 00:09:48,929 --> 00:09:58,710 spent a long time not doing like anything coding or -175 +178 00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:00,960 tech related on the side. Just like, especially when -176 +179 00:09:58,799 --> 00:10:06,179 -I've been working by myself. Um, -and Hacktoberfest was I sort +I've been working by myself. and +Hacktoberfest was I sort -177 +180 00:10:01,769 --> 00:10:08,039 of first opportunity to start doing stuff with other people. -178 +181 00:10:08,100 --> 00:10:12,000 -I was also my first time. Uh, +I was also my first time. hosting an open -179 +182 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,669 source project. My first time, like teaching -180 +183 00:10:12,029 --> 00:10:17,039 other people, like formally like Elm and getting into -181 +184 00:10:14,669 --> 00:10:23,700 functional programming. I, in a similar fashion to Dan -182 +185 00:10:18,509 --> 00:10:27,600 -may have gone a little overboard +May have gone a little overboard with my, my piece of it, writing -183 +186 00:10:24,059 --> 00:10:32,419 -weights and much documentation. -Um, but it, it felt really +way too much documentation. but +it- it felt really -184 +187 00:10:28,649 --> 00:10:36,590 good to kind of like, you know, -my, uh, thoughts to try and +my, thoughts to try and -185 +188 00:10:32,509 --> 00:10:43,184 -make something good for them. +make something good for ppeople. And I think it was just -186 +189 00:10:37,455 --> 00:10:45,794 really, really fun and empowering and validating to -187 +190 00:10:43,245 --> 00:10:50,445 see so many people say like this -was my first PR Right. +was my first PR ever Right. -188 +191 00:10:50,445 --> 00:10:52,784 And like the fact that we can get that for some people -189 +192 00:10:52,784 --> 00:10:54,674 and they could have a good experience with it and not a -190 +193 00:10:54,674 --> 00:10:58,304 painful experience with it. That -felt good. +felt super good. -191 +194 00:10:58,725 --> 00:11:01,394 And I'm super pumped for doing that again. -192 +195 00:11:01,794 --> 00:11:05,654 -Dan: Yeah, I, uh, I learned -that, Kirk, I mean, yeah, +Dan: Yeah, I- I learned that, +Kirk, I mean, yeah, -193 +196 00:11:05,684 --> 00:11:08,414 -Kirk, Kirk did a ton of work -getting our, uh, open-source +Kirk- Kirk did a ton of work +getting our, open-source -194 +197 00:11:08,414 --> 00:11:11,235 -stuff set up and, uh, putting -some guidelines in place. +stuff set up and, putting some +guidelines in place. -195 +198 00:11:11,235 --> 00:11:13,904 And I don't know, I learned a -lot, um, we're working +lot, we're working -196 +199 00:11:13,904 --> 00:11:16,365 -with Kirk on that too. really -cool. +with Kirk on that too. that was +really cool. -197 +200 00:11:17,115 --> 00:11:18,195 Bekah, what about you? -198 +201 00:11:19,424 --> 00:11:22,154 Bekah: Yeah, I think, you know, it's, it all comes -199 +202 00:11:22,154 --> 00:11:25,274 down to the people, right? It was such a big -200 +203 00:11:23,205 --> 00:11:31,024 learning experience. I feel like. I learned so much in the -201 +204 00:11:26,434 --> 00:11:34,924 month prep and the month of -doing it, that it, it +doing it, that it- it -202 +205 00:11:31,024 --> 00:11:36,125 was like an intense amount of learning that happened. -203 +206 00:11:36,125 --> 00:11:37,894 I was so exhausted afterwards, but -204 +207 00:11:38,284 --> 00:11:41,404 it was so great to be able to work with other people -205 +208 00:11:41,404 --> 00:11:43,774 and kind of learn about the deliberate process -206 +209 00:11:43,774 --> 00:11:47,615 that goes into documenting things and creating issues. -207 +210 00:11:47,615 --> 00:11:50,095 And the difference between working on your. -208 +211 00:11:50,779 --> 00:11:55,009 Own open source project and then -having people work on it, it +having people work on it- it -209 +212 00:11:55,450 --> 00:11:59,840 was, you know, a lot in working on my postpartum wellness app -210 +213 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,019 with members of the community and working through issues and -211 -00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:06,710 -how to write issues, but then -also, know, pairing up with +214 +00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:05,150 +Learning how to write issues, +but then also, know, pairing up -212 +215 +00:12:05,150 --> 00:12:06,710 +with + +216 00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:10,309 them and talking through things and hearing their stories and -213 +217 00:12:10,309 --> 00:12:14,870 their connection to, know, both -the code, but also the, um, +the code, but also the, -214 +218 00:12:14,899 --> 00:12:19,009 topic that we were working on. It just became -215 +219 00:12:16,490 --> 00:12:22,325 something that couldn't. I would have never imagined -216 +220 00:12:19,715 --> 00:12:24,335 that it would be that special and meaningful to me. -217 +221 00:12:24,335 --> 00:12:27,424 So, you know, I really just love that. -218 +222 00:12:28,085 --> 00:12:30,485 like we all just like really close together -219 +223 00:12:30,514 --> 00:12:32,225 in that experience. -220 +224 00:12:32,692 --> 00:12:36,562 -Dan: Yeah, totally. Um, I mean, -I agree. +Dan: Yeah, totally. I mean, I +agree. -221 +225 00:12:37,403 --> 00:12:44,013 -Um, we, we talk a lot about. -That the Hacktoberfest last +We, we talk a lot about. That +the Hacktoberfest last -222 +226 00:12:41,702 --> 00:12:47,673 year was, was sort of where Virtual Coffee became, you -223 +227 00:12:44,013 --> 00:12:50,822 know, more of a, I dunno, I dunno what, the more of a -224 +228 00:12:49,052 --> 00:12:51,302 -thing, you know what I mean? Um, +thing, you know what I mean? -225 +229 00:12:52,118 --> 00:12:52,298 -Bekah: Like +Bekah: Like solidified that's +not the right word -226 +230 00:12:52,503 --> 00:12:53,133 -Dan: than just, uh, +Dan: than just, -227 +231 00:12:53,238 --> 00:12:53,307 Bekah: know. -228 +232 00:12:53,493 --> 00:12:57,212 Dan: yeah, solidified I dunno, sort of a mission or something. -229 +233 00:12:57,212 --> 00:13:00,722 I don't, I don't know, but, yeah, know. -230 +234 00:13:00,732 --> 00:13:01,322 It was a lot of fun. -231 +235 00:13:02,832 --> 00:13:07,416 Kirk: Yeah. I think before, virtual Coffee -232 +236 00:13:03,163 --> 00:13:12,485 was, you know, we, we definitely sort of established the space -233 +237 00:13:07,416 --> 00:13:16,235 and, you know, we were, we were having fun together and -234 +238 00:13:12,485 --> 00:13:20,436 we were definitely like forming those like good and healthy -235 +239 00:13:16,235 --> 00:13:24,816 connections and relationships -feel like Hacktoberfest +that I feel like Hacktoberfest -236 +240 00:13:21,395 --> 00:13:30,066 was, when we sort of like the opportunity to do a lot -237 +241 00:13:25,596 --> 00:13:30,725 of good in the tech space. Like -238 +242 00:13:30,770 --> 00:13:30,831 Bekah: Yeah. -239 +243 00:13:31,296 --> 00:13:33,456 -Kirk: some of the big gaps And -then like, you +Kirk: Realizing some of the big +gaps And then like, you -240 +244 00:13:33,456 --> 00:13:36,245 know, also like feeling empowered to change them. Right. -241 +245 00:13:36,245 --> 00:13:38,975 Because if all started with that question of, we all want -242 +246 00:13:38,975 --> 00:13:40,895 to do something for open source, we all have this feeling like, -243 +247 00:13:40,895 --> 00:13:43,100 why does that ever feel good? No. Why do people have so many, -244 +248 00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:45,305 so. -245 +249 00:13:45,306 --> 00:13:47,615 much trouble with this? Why other people find -246 +250 00:13:46,025 --> 00:13:49,145 it so intimidating? we tried to solve it. -247 +251 00:13:49,176 --> 00:13:51,816 And, you know, once we did that, we sort of get on a -248 +252 00:13:51,816 --> 00:13:54,285 roll with the next month and the month after that -249 +253 00:13:54,285 --> 00:14:02,166 of, let's keep trying to. Like -these things just +do these things verses just -250 +254 00:13:56,946 --> 00:14:03,186 -like together or both at the -same time in that. +like being together or both at +the same time in that. -251 +255 00:14:03,620 --> 00:14:06,379 Bekah: Yeah. There's so many people -252 +256 00:14:03,769 --> 00:14:07,370 that suggest getting into open source. -253 +257 00:14:07,899 --> 00:14:11,080 -Um, if you're new or you're -getting into the industry, +If you're new or you're getting +into the industry, -254 +258 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,279 and I've always found that that's not necessarily the -255 +259 00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:19,929 best advice because open source projects are open to -256 +260 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,539 new and entry-level people, some of them are welcoming -257 +261 00:14:22,539 --> 00:14:26,529 and some of them aren't. And so what ends up happening -258 +262 00:14:23,679 --> 00:14:29,929 is it can be a really isolating experience and -259 +263 00:14:26,620 --> 00:14:32,664 one that doesn't leave you. -Well, the, a good taste in +Well, with, a good taste in -260 +264 00:14:30,445 --> 00:14:34,764 your mouth, like, oh yeah. I want to continue to be -261 +265 00:14:32,664 --> 00:14:37,014 -part of this community. Um, -because there can +part of this community. because +there can -262 +266 00:14:35,154 --> 00:14:38,274 be some really bad experiences out there. -263 +267 00:14:38,605 --> 00:14:40,554 And I think, you know, that really. -264 +268 00:14:41,269 --> 00:14:44,899 -Um, stands out to me, as -everybody talked about +Stands out to me, as everybody +talked about -265 +269 00:14:45,049 --> 00:14:48,620 how great it was to be doing this thing together. -266 +270 00:14:48,649 --> 00:14:51,320 People who had been in tech for years, who had not done it -267 -00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,759 +271 +00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,539 before doing it for the first -time, it was part of a community +time, because it was part of a -268 +272 +00:14:53,539 --> 00:14:55,758 +community + +273 00:14:55,789 --> 00:15:00,500 and it was a sense of belonging. And there is a greater -269 +274 00:14:58,519 --> 00:15:03,169 purpose when you're doing it with other people that -270 +275 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:06,500 you trust around you. it, you know, it allows -271 +276 00:15:03,769 --> 00:15:10,399 -you to grow and new ways. Um, -and so I think, you +you to grow and new ways. and so +I think, you -272 +277 00:15:07,460 --> 00:15:13,759 know, bringing that into what we're doing this year makes -273 +278 00:15:10,399 --> 00:15:17,870 it even more exciting and more purposeful because we -274 +279 00:15:13,759 --> 00:15:22,039 know that this has happened once before and we have -275 +280 00:15:17,870 --> 00:15:25,490 grown a ton since last year. this year, it it's really -276 +281 00:15:22,549 --> 00:15:28,100 -exciting to kind of off of what -we've done. +exciting to kind of build off of +what we've done. -277 +282 00:15:28,190 --> 00:15:30,149 Dan, do you want to kind of talk about what our -278 +283 00:15:30,149 --> 00:15:31,289 plans are heading into? -279 +284 00:15:32,955 --> 00:15:38,125 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. So -digital ocean, you know, um, +Digital Ocean, you know, -280 +285 00:15:34,034 --> 00:15:40,575 has been running Hacktoberfest and they, so they coined -281 +286 00:15:38,144 --> 00:15:41,924 -the term Preptember, right. Uh, -for September. +the term Preptember, right. for +September. -282 +287 00:15:41,924 --> 00:15:44,865 And the idea there for in -DigitalOcean's mind +Digital Ocean's mind -283 +288 00:15:44,865 --> 00:15:46,455 is Preptember is for maintainers, right? -284 +289 00:15:46,455 --> 00:15:49,875 -So Preptember is get, um, get -your repositories ready. +So Preptember is get, get your +repositories ready. -285 +290 00:15:49,904 --> 00:15:55,710 -Um, People to contribute. Right. -And they have a lot of, +People to contribute. Right. And +they have a lot of, -286 +291 00:15:53,669 --> 00:16:00,360 -they have a lot of good, uh, +they have a lot of good, resources out there for things -287 +292 00:15:55,769 --> 00:16:01,980 -like, um, you know, creating -issues and adding, contributing +like, you know, creating issues +and adding, contributing -288 +293 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,259 guides, stuff like that. And so that was, you -289 +294 00:16:02,460 --> 00:16:06,419 know, we're, we're, we're going to also piggyback -290 +295 00:16:04,259 --> 00:16:09,990 -on that a little bit. Um, we -want to help maintainers, +on that a little bit. We want to +help maintainers, -291 +296 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:13,200 -um, get things ready. We, we, I -feel like we have +Get things ready. We- we, I feel +like we have -292 +297 00:16:09,990 --> 00:16:16,470 done a pretty good job on, in our own internal stuff -293 +298 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:19,230 of adding a lot of the community health things that -294 +299 00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:21,370 you want to see a lot of the. Some of the organizational -295 +300 00:16:19,870 --> 00:16:21,970 stuff, things that we want to see. -296 +301 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,289 -Um, and so we can use that, some -of that as a guide and, +And so we can use that, some of +that as a guide and, -297 +302 00:16:26,830 --> 00:16:30,460 -um, provide some help for both, -uh, existing maintainers +Provide some help for both, +existing maintainers -298 +303 00:16:30,460 --> 00:16:33,039 that want to sort of just make sure they're checking all the -299 +304 00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:36,580 -boxes and, uh, anybody who wants -to create a new open +boxes and, anybody who wants to +create a new open -300 +305 00:16:36,580 --> 00:16:41,860 source project to figure out. You know what things to do, -301 +306 00:16:39,789 --> 00:16:44,169 -what things to hit, um, when, -when you're creating a project +what things to hit, when, when +you're creating a project -302 +307 00:16:41,860 --> 00:16:47,950 so that you don't end up with the random bits of code, the -303 +308 00:16:44,860 --> 00:16:49,539 default, read me with, you know, just a header and that's it. -304 +309 00:16:49,539 --> 00:16:51,669 -Right. Um, so someone, somebody -who comes to contribute, +Right. so someone, somebody who +comes to contribute, -305 +310 00:16:52,029 --> 00:16:57,190 -uh, they can help. And then the, -for us, for +They can help. And then the, for +us, for -306 +311 00:16:53,470 --> 00:17:00,639 Virtual Coffee, we will also want it to have something this -307 +312 00:16:57,190 --> 00:17:03,610 -month for, um, our members who -may you know, who aren't +month for,our members who may +you know, who aren't -308 +313 00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:07,525 maintainers of open-source -projects and, uh, The other +projects and, The other -309 +314 00:17:03,610 --> 00:17:11,065 thing we thought about was creating a, I don't know, a -310 +315 00:17:08,125 --> 00:17:14,035 challenge, you know, using our mental challenge set -311 +316 00:17:11,065 --> 00:17:16,404 -up and, um, helping people learn -how to create good +up and, helping people learn how +to create good -312 +317 00:17:14,125 --> 00:17:19,825 issues for repositories, because I personally feel -313 +318 00:17:16,404 --> 00:17:21,805 like that is one of the, like, that is actually one of the -314 +319 00:17:19,884 --> 00:17:24,565 strongest things you can do to -contribute, um, especially to +contribute, especially to -315 +320 00:17:21,835 --> 00:17:27,714 big projects, even the little -projects, uh, writing an issue. +projects, writing an issue. -316 +321 00:17:27,775 --> 00:17:31,525 -Um, you know, I don't know if -you find something. +You know, I don't know if you +find something. -317 +322 00:17:32,394 --> 00:17:35,365 It he's either wrong or you'd -like to, uh, help improve +like to, help improve -318 +323 00:17:35,365 --> 00:17:40,704 or, or everything like that. every, almost every -319 +324 00:17:37,434 --> 00:17:42,414 maintainer will prefer you to create an issue first. Right. -320 +325 00:17:42,474 --> 00:17:46,704 And that way the maintainers can process them and, -321 +326 00:17:46,704 --> 00:17:50,605 you know, check and see. but also, you know, if -322 +327 00:17:48,444 --> 00:17:52,375 you see something that's wrong, lots of times. Okay. -323 +328 00:17:52,375 --> 00:17:53,575 So does it happen personally? Right? -324 +329 00:17:53,605 --> 00:17:56,005 I have, I've been trying to install a package or something. -325 +330 00:17:56,664 --> 00:18:01,519 I follow the, read me. It doesn't work and I. Okay. -326 +331 00:18:01,519 --> 00:18:03,309 I mean, you know, whatever, I'm busy, I'm pressed -327 +332 00:18:03,309 --> 00:18:06,750 -for time or whatever. And, uh, -you know, I just +for time or whatever. And, you +know, I just -328 +333 00:18:04,269 --> 00:18:10,390 like, oh, this thing is broken. And so I just move on, you -329 +334 00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:12,190 -know, and, um, a possibly better +know, and, a possibly better approach would -330 +335 00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:15,640 be to write an issue. Right. But you can't just say -331 +336 00:18:12,970 --> 00:18:17,829 this is broken and move on. -Cause that's just as +Cause that's just not as -332 +337 00:18:15,700 --> 00:18:18,640 helpful, you know, like that's -not hopefully there. +not helpful either. -333 +338 00:18:19,269 --> 00:18:22,000 -Um, so that's, that's our other, +So that's, that's our other, we're doing a -334 +339 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,950 two-pronged Preptember, right? Right. Some issues for some -335 +340 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:31,644 -repositories and, uh, you know -how to do it well, How to, +repositories and, you know how +to do it well, How to, -336 +341 00:18:26,980 --> 00:18:34,825 -you know, both, uh, set up and -create or create, um, um, +you know, both, set up and +create or create, -337 +342 00:18:31,694 --> 00:18:37,884 your open source project with, with a good, you know, with a -338 +343 00:18:34,914 --> 00:18:38,394 -good setup of support, um, for +good setup of support, for maintainers. -339 +344 00:18:42,025 --> 00:18:45,085 it starts tomorrow, as of our recording, it -340 +345 00:18:45,085 --> 00:18:48,115 -starts September 1st. So, um, -which will probably be +starts September 1st. So, which +will probably be -341 +346 00:18:45,954 --> 00:18:48,115 when this comes out, actually. -342 +347 00:18:50,339 --> 00:18:53,519 Bekah: Yeah. And, you know, I think contributors -343 +348 00:18:53,519 --> 00:18:57,359 write issues also does a really good job of kind of showing. -344 +349 00:18:58,255 --> 00:19:01,974 What it takes to be a maintainer -or what's useful +or what's a useful -345 +350 00:19:01,974 --> 00:19:06,744 way to approach a problem. so, and I think it helps -346 +351 00:19:04,525 --> 00:19:08,184 to create those clear paths of communication. -347 +352 00:19:09,025 --> 00:19:12,355 now, Kirk, I know that you did a lot with maintainers last year. -348 +353 00:19:12,355 --> 00:19:14,845 You're working on a checklist for maintainers this year. -349 +354 00:19:15,174 --> 00:19:17,845 What are some of the big things that you think -350 +355 00:19:18,414 --> 00:19:22,315 -maintainers should be for as -they prepare their +maintainers should be lookinf +for as they prepare their -351 +356 00:19:22,315 --> 00:19:24,015 repositories for Hacktoberfest? -352 +357 00:19:25,829 --> 00:19:30,240 -Kirk: Uh, there's part of me -wants to say +Kirk: There's part of me wants +to say -353 +358 00:19:30,250 --> 00:19:33,900 there's quite a bit. And then another part of -354 +359 00:19:31,289 --> 00:19:35,609 me wants to say it's like less than people think. -355 +360 00:19:36,579 --> 00:19:41,714 There are some basic like files that we know usually helped to, -356 +361 00:19:41,765 --> 00:19:44,924 to just have like having the good reading and like knowing -357 +362 00:19:44,924 --> 00:19:48,105 -what makes a good reasoning, um, +what makes a good read me, contributing, like telling -358 +363 00:19:48,105 --> 00:19:51,075 people, Hey, here's the way you contribute to this code -359 +364 00:19:51,075 --> 00:19:54,585 base in the way that works for you as the maintainer, right. -360 +365 00:19:54,914 --> 00:19:59,265 Having a code of conduct. So establishing very early -361 +366 00:19:56,174 --> 00:20:02,654 on the types of behaviors you expect while interacting with -362 +367 00:19:59,265 --> 00:20:03,795 the code base and interacting with other people contributing. -363 +368 00:20:04,424 --> 00:20:08,244 -Um, as you said, It's all about +As you said, It's all about communication. -364 +369 00:20:09,295 --> 00:20:15,414 And I think a lot of times maintainers it's like, we sort -365 +370 00:20:15,414 --> 00:20:18,055 of think of open source in this very transactional way. -366 +371 00:20:18,055 --> 00:20:20,454 -Like I have code base use of it +Like I have code base you submit to code base. -367 +372 00:20:20,664 --> 00:20:24,414 I take something, you know, -it's, it's, it's a team, right? +it's- it's- it's a team, right? -368 +373 00:20:24,414 --> 00:20:26,484 -It's, it's an ad hoc team. It's +It's- it's an ad hoc team. It's a distributed team. -369 +374 00:20:26,515 --> 00:20:28,974 But while that person is trying to work with your code, they're -370 +375 00:20:28,974 --> 00:20:31,974 kind of like your teammate. So in the same way you would. -371 +376 00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:35,589 -Keep a teammate teammate aware +Keep a teammate- teammate aware of like, what's going on. -372 +377 00:20:35,589 --> 00:20:37,720 You kind of do the same thing -with, uh, with contributors. +with, with contributors. -373 +378 00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:40,720 So I usually encourage maintainers, like, Hey, think -374 +379 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,059 about the way you want to interact with this code base. -375 +380 00:20:43,450 --> 00:20:46,299 And just like a lot of it's just like giving folks a heads up. -376 +381 00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:52,210 I work on this, on the weekends. -So if you submit a request, +So if you submit a pull request, -377 +382 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:55,150 you know, expect a review by the weekend, or like, -378 +383 00:20:52,210 --> 00:20:57,700 Hey, sometimes I slip up. So if you notice it's been a -379 +384 00:20:55,210 --> 00:21:00,970 couple of weeks or a couple of days with no response, me -380 +385 00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:03,190 a message on the appropriate channel where you wish -381 +386 00:21:00,970 --> 00:21:04,930 to receive messages about your open source code base. -382 +387 00:21:05,690 --> 00:21:07,660 -if there are a lot of things +So if there are a lot of things like that, but I don't feel -383 +388 00:21:07,660 --> 00:21:13,150 like we talk about a lot. We talked about making the -384 +389 00:21:09,849 --> 00:21:14,880 issue or making the PR, I think those subtleties. -385 +390 00:21:15,910 --> 00:21:19,690 As a maintainer find the way you want to be interacted -386 +391 00:21:19,690 --> 00:21:22,869 with and make that super clear -for people, um, +for people, -387 +392 00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:27,640 that can be super helpful. then for your contributors, -388 +393 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:30,250 then they don't have that burden of trying to decide if they're -389 +394 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:32,380 bothering you or frustrating. And that goes back to -390 +395 00:21:30,730 --> 00:21:33,309 what Dan said about like what's a good issue. -391 +396 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,240 You know, a good issue for a maintainer is something they -392 +397 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,289 -can see like make decisions on. -I need to fix this? +can see and like make decisions +on. I need to fix this? -393 +398 00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:46,315 -Can I let this person fix it? -Um, is this a big problem that +Can I let this person fix it? is +this a big problem that -394 +399 00:21:43,525 --> 00:21:48,325 we need to pair up more on? Can we break this -395 +400 00:21:46,585 --> 00:21:52,615 into smaller chunks? so, you -know, it's, it's +know, it's- it's -396 +401 00:21:49,285 --> 00:21:54,025 about like building a healthy working relationship. -397 +402 00:21:54,355 --> 00:21:56,994 And a lot of that is people being open, honest with -398 +403 00:21:56,994 --> 00:21:59,214 like where they're at and what they can accomplish. -399 +404 00:21:59,830 --> 00:22:03,530 Bekah: I really love that idea of this is your team -400 +405 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,641 that you're working with. And so if you're thinking -401 +406 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:10,611 of, okay, now you have all of these brand new -402 +407 00:22:07,671 --> 00:22:12,141 teammates who are going to be working on your repository. -403 +408 00:22:12,530 --> 00:22:15,080 How do you onboard them all at once? Right. -404 +409 00:22:15,631 --> 00:22:17,941 -It, it starts there, you know, +It- it starts there, you know, what the clear -405 +410 00:22:17,941 --> 00:22:20,550 paths of communication and do you lay that out? -406 +411 00:22:20,550 --> 00:22:23,730 How do you demonstrate that you are a friendly -407 +412 00:22:23,730 --> 00:22:27,090 repository for people to come and work on things? -408 +413 00:22:27,570 --> 00:22:32,221 -I talked to, um, a maintainer of -a really large +I talked to, a maintainer of a +really large project -409 +414 00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:40,320 a couple of months ago. one of the challenges that he -410 +415 00:22:35,161 --> 00:22:46,086 said was, so hard to find people to continue being maintainers -411 +416 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:47,615 -for the project because Was +for the project because He Was self-described as older. -412 +417 00:22:47,645 --> 00:22:50,375 And he said the other maintainers are older and -413 +418 00:22:50,375 --> 00:22:54,576 they could really use, new people to take it over. -414 -00:22:55,536 --> 00:22:59,796 -it's a catch 22 almost because -so many of the maintainers +419 +00:22:55,536 --> 00:22:57,666 +But it's a catch 22 almost +because so many of the -415 +420 +00:22:57,666 --> 00:22:59,796 +maintainers + +421 00:22:59,796 --> 00:23:03,695 don't want to spend the time to work with new contributors. -416 +422 00:23:04,236 --> 00:23:07,625 -ultimately those would be the -perfect candidates once they +And ultimately those would be +the perfect candidates once they -417 +423 00:23:07,625 --> 00:23:09,935 understood the repository and how to work through -418 +424 00:23:09,935 --> 00:23:13,885 -things, it over for a while. Um, -and I think. +things, it over for a while. and +I think. -419 +425 00:23:14,506 --> 00:23:17,296 You know, going back to what we're doing and making -420 +426 00:23:17,296 --> 00:23:21,256 -sure that we, um, work with all -of our members at all +sure that we, work with all of +our members at all -421 +427 00:23:21,256 --> 00:23:27,405 different levels and stages. Like that's the investment that -422 +428 00:23:22,996 --> 00:23:29,625 we put into, these repositories. We, we make sure that -423 +429 00:23:27,405 --> 00:23:32,476 people have mentors. We make sure that there are -424 +430 00:23:29,625 --> 00:23:36,346 repositories that are friendly to them and that these -425 +431 00:23:32,476 --> 00:23:40,965 it's about developing the relationships that go and create -426 +432 00:23:36,346 --> 00:23:42,165 community around your project. So you can sustain and grow. -427 +433 00:23:42,875 --> 00:23:46,317 Dan: Yeah, I love that. And -like, that's, that's +like, that's- that's -428 +434 00:23:44,194 --> 00:23:47,607 one of the support things that -we w we try to do too. +we- we try to do too. -429 +435 00:23:47,657 --> 00:23:49,798 And this stuff that we're talking about is time consuming -430 +436 00:23:49,798 --> 00:23:54,508 from a maintainers perspective, you know, and there are a lot -431 +437 00:23:54,508 --> 00:23:56,907 -of projects out there where, um, -I feel like there are +of projects out there where, I +feel like there are -432 +438 00:23:56,907 --> 00:23:59,067 people that would be open to country contributions, you -433 +439 00:23:59,067 --> 00:24:02,907 know, maybe haven't spelled out every single thing that -434 +440 00:24:02,907 --> 00:24:06,268 they could or whatever. And one of the things that -435 +441 00:24:03,748 --> 00:24:07,377 -we can do at like, that we do do -as a community is. +we can do at like, that we do- +do as a community is. -436 +442 00:24:08,288 --> 00:24:10,807 Is maybe provide support for our contributors to -437 +443 00:24:10,837 --> 00:24:14,647 navigate, you know, different, different areas of repositories -438 +444 00:24:14,647 --> 00:24:18,667 -and, and what's to you. Cause +and- and what's to you. Cause none of them are -439 +445 00:24:15,367 --> 00:24:21,817 ever going to be perfect. Right? -Uh, no, no project is going +no- no project is going -440 +446 00:24:19,057 --> 00:24:26,978 -to have everything laid out. Um, +to have everything laid out. some will get close, you -441 +447 00:24:21,877 --> 00:24:28,928 -know, but, um, anyway, uh, that -that's like one of the other +know, but, anyway, that that's +like one of the other -442 +448 00:24:26,978 --> 00:24:30,458 things that we do once, like once Hacktoberfest starts is. -443 +449 00:24:31,903 --> 00:24:34,782 Is provide support and mentorship in some time, you -444 +450 00:24:34,782 --> 00:24:37,722 know, in some places for people, -uh, format for our members to +format for our members to -445 +451 00:24:38,143 --> 00:24:40,782 kind of work through some of the social, you know, some of -446 +452 00:24:40,782 --> 00:24:44,712 the like social anxiety that can, that can, that can happen. -447 +453 00:24:44,742 --> 00:24:47,833 -Um, when, you know, when +When, you know, when contributing to open source. -448 +454 00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:52,454 Kirk: Yeah. I think you touched on something -449 +455 00:24:48,845 --> 00:24:59,865 very important that are just like how scary it is to offer, -450 +456 00:24:52,454 --> 00:25:02,835 to help someone on project that like, you feel like, oh, I -451 +457 00:24:59,865 --> 00:25:04,365 don't particularly understand. And it's all this code. -452 +458 00:25:04,904 --> 00:25:08,565 And especially if you're an early career developer, like, -453 +459 00:25:08,595 --> 00:25:11,625 oh, I'm just, I just got here. I'm going to mess something up. -454 +460 00:25:12,105 --> 00:25:16,184 There's so many. It's something that we -455 +461 00:25:13,424 --> 00:25:20,884 don't really do in other circumstances, there's a lot -456 +462 00:25:16,184 --> 00:25:24,815 of anxiety around it and sort of anything you can do too, -457 +463 00:25:20,884 --> 00:25:30,154 as a maintainer to make people -feel more welcome is, is like +feel more welcome is- is like -458 +464 00:25:24,815 --> 00:25:33,125 worth it, know, and getting back -to September, like you said, +to Preptember, like you said, -459 +465 00:25:30,154 --> 00:25:35,855 -like this, this year, we want it +like this- this year, we want it to not just be Preptember -460 +466 00:25:33,125 --> 00:25:39,275 for maintainers, but also Preptember for contributors, -461 +467 00:25:35,855 --> 00:25:42,065 -you know, we're, we're going to +you know, we're- we're going to be doing, you know, a couple of -462 +468 00:25:39,275 --> 00:25:46,964 -talks in a couple of seconds. +talks in a couple of sessions. You know, to show people what -463 +469 00:25:42,914 --> 00:25:51,555 contribution looks like, but also to let them see like not -464 +470 00:25:46,964 --> 00:25:55,035 scary it is and how approachable it can be, you know, just -465 +471 00:25:51,615 --> 00:25:58,275 to we can do to kind of like get through those layers of -466 +472 00:25:55,755 --> 00:26:00,525 anxiety and get to that place where it's like, no, they, -467 +473 00:25:58,275 --> 00:26:01,515 they want me to be here. They want me to help. -468 +474 00:26:01,815 --> 00:26:06,194 They're okay with me learning. They're willing to sort of, -469 +475 00:26:03,194 --> 00:26:10,065 -you know, guide them along. Um, -and that's when I think you +you know, guide them along. and +that's when I think you -470 +476 00:26:06,825 --> 00:26:11,625 -get to see people really, really +get to see people really- really shine and like really enjoy. -471 +477 00:26:12,690 --> 00:26:15,720 -Uh, making contributions to -group projects. +Making contributions to group +projects. -472 +478 00:26:16,276 --> 00:26:18,675 Dan: So you mentioned some stuff, some, some events I -473 +479 00:26:18,675 --> 00:26:20,355 just wanted to kind of run through a couple of the ones -474 +480 00:26:20,355 --> 00:26:23,465 -that we have for September. Um, -if that's all +that we have for September. if +that's all -475 +481 00:26:21,665 --> 00:26:27,846 right, real quick. September 3rd, which is -476 +482 00:26:24,425 --> 00:26:32,375 this Friday, we, I will be doing an event, a lunch -477 +483 00:26:27,846 --> 00:26:33,395 -and learn event at noon Um, and, -and it's just an open. +and learn event at noon eastern +and, it's just an open. -478 +484 00:26:33,425 --> 00:26:35,855 So what's called the open source project walkthrough. -479 +485 00:26:36,846 --> 00:26:40,056 And this just sort of a tour, -uh, not really a deep +not really a deep -480 +486 00:26:40,506 --> 00:26:43,736 -dive into any con you know, -contributing, uh, any, any, +dive into any contr- you know, +contributing, any- any, -481 +487 00:26:43,865 --> 00:26:45,816 anything as far as like pull requests or anything like that. -482 +488 00:26:45,816 --> 00:26:49,296 But, just a tour of what a, what a repository looks like. -483 +489 00:26:49,296 --> 00:26:51,006 What are all the different pieces that happen? -484 +490 00:26:51,066 --> 00:26:54,726 -Um, looks like from the -maintainers perspective, +Looks like from the maintainers +perspective, -485 +491 00:26:54,786 --> 00:27:00,336 -um, on a project and, uh, We'll -just kind of it around. +On a project and, We'll just +kind wander around. -486 +492 00:27:00,556 --> 00:27:03,665 It's not going to be a, it's not going to be super -487 +493 00:27:03,665 --> 00:27:07,036 -in depth, um, but it'll be kind -of fun and we'll, know, +in depth, but it'll be kind of +fun and we'll, know, -488 +494 00:27:07,036 --> 00:27:08,796 we'll hang out and ask some questions and stuff like that. -489 +495 00:27:09,336 --> 00:27:12,455 -Um, and so that's me, that's -Friday, September +And so that's me, that's Friday, +September -490 +496 00:27:12,455 --> 00:27:17,046 -17th is a lunch and learn, um, -how to create an open +17th is a lunch and learn, how +to create an open -491 +497 00:27:17,046 --> 00:27:22,415 source or a repository. And so -this is Kirk, um, at +this is Kirk, at -492 +498 00:27:18,756 --> 00:27:26,375 September 17th at noon Eastern. And this is sort of geared -493 +499 00:27:23,016 --> 00:27:28,461 towards maintainers or. People who'd like -494 +500 00:27:27,141 --> 00:27:30,500 to be maintainers. kind of, and this is kind -495 +501 00:27:29,030 --> 00:27:31,250 of what we touched about and touched on a couple of times. -496 +502 00:27:31,250 --> 00:27:33,111 What kinds of things should we look at when we're, when -497 +503 00:27:33,111 --> 00:27:35,300 we're, we're talking, thinking about creating an open -498 +504 00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:38,361 -source project, um, because it's -not just the code. +source project, because it's not +just the code. -499 +505 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,790 Like we've talked about a bunch of times, right? -500 +506 00:27:40,790 --> 00:27:44,361 -It's not just the code. Uh, -there's a lot of things +It's not just the code. there's +a lot of things -501 +507 00:27:41,961 --> 00:27:47,750 -we can do to help, to help, uh, -contributors actually +we can do to help, to help, +potential contributors actually -502 +508 00:27:44,451 --> 00:27:50,631 contribute to your project. So -that is 17th. +that is the 17th. -503 +509 00:27:50,721 --> 00:27:57,421 -And then am what we got the 24. -Um, which is the last Friday +And then am what we got the +24th. which is the last Friday -504 +510 00:27:54,601 --> 00:28:00,931 I feel like probably in -September is, uh, this is +September is, this is -505 +511 00:27:57,421 --> 00:28:04,530 our intro to Hacktoberfest and, -um, and open-source +and open-source -506 +512 00:28:00,931 --> 00:28:06,990 contributions, hosted by Bekah but I'm pretty sure -507 +513 00:28:04,530 --> 00:28:09,661 -we'll, we'll, I'll be there. Um, -and this is a general +we'll- we'll, I'll be there. and +this is a general -508 +514 00:28:07,050 --> 00:28:13,155 Hacktoberfest, you know, Jumping into everything event. -509 +515 00:28:13,215 --> 00:28:16,336 -Um, I guess I should have -probably asked if Kirk, if you +I guess I should have probably +asked if Kirk, if you -510 +516 00:28:16,336 --> 00:28:20,806 -had anything to say about her, -your event, uh, uh, just +had anything to say about your- +your event, just -511 +517 00:28:18,375 --> 00:28:23,586 realized I was about to do either of you would -512 +518 00:28:20,806 --> 00:28:24,496 like to, you know, expand more on what I said. -513 +519 00:28:24,615 --> 00:28:27,855 -Um, but those, the events coming -up, uh, this month, +but those, the events coming up, +this month, -514 +520 00:28:28,455 --> 00:28:29,115 I'm excited about it. -515 +521 00:28:30,471 --> 00:28:33,891 -Kirk: Um, I think he covered the +Kirk: I think you covered the basis. -516 +522 00:28:33,921 --> 00:28:36,290 It's it's going to be much what it says. -517 +523 00:28:36,830 --> 00:28:40,941 We're going to start from scratch with a, Hey, I have -518 +524 00:28:40,941 --> 00:28:45,270 something locally and I want to get it up on GitHub. -519 +525 00:28:45,391 --> 00:28:48,351 I want it to be open source and I want to do -520 +526 00:28:48,351 --> 00:28:50,931 the necessary things that people know that they can -521 +527 00:28:49,401 --> 00:28:54,185 come here and work here. We will cover the required docs. -522 +528 00:28:54,246 --> 00:28:57,695 We'll, we'll get some helpful, get up features for making that -523 +529 00:28:57,695 --> 00:29:00,276 process easier because they have invested a lot of resources -524 +530 00:29:00,756 --> 00:29:05,645 -into that type of thing. Uh, -we'll cover a few things +into that type of thing. we'll +cover a few things -525 +531 00:29:02,736 --> 00:29:08,736 that GitHub doesn't really tell you about the, you sort -526 +532 00:29:05,645 --> 00:29:13,145 -of learn from our work with PC +of learn from our work with VC and just all the other cool -527 +533 00:29:08,736 --> 00:29:17,586 projects in the community. So, I mean, totally recommended -528 +534 00:29:13,625 --> 00:29:18,665 for anyone who wants to start an -open source. +open source project. -529 +535 00:29:19,580 --> 00:29:21,621 Anyone who already has one and they just want to get like a -530 +536 00:29:21,621 --> 00:29:24,951 refresher on what are the cool things happening nowadays to -531 +537 00:29:24,980 --> 00:29:28,221 make it engaging, even if you're a contributor where you just -532 +538 00:29:28,221 --> 00:29:30,320 want to see like, Hey, like what actually goes into this? -533 +539 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,351 I might want to do this next year or a couple -534 +540 00:29:32,371 --> 00:29:37,280 -months down the line. Um, I -think all, all three +months down the line. I think +all, all three -535 +541 00:29:33,681 --> 00:29:39,951 of our events will be super useful for anyone at any -536 +542 00:29:40,195 --> 00:29:40,256 Bekah: Yeah. -537 +543 00:29:40,401 --> 00:29:42,351 -Kirk: part of the OSS. Uh, +Kirk: part of the OSS. -538 +544 00:29:44,451 --> 00:29:47,391 Bekah: Yeah, and I always appreciate everybody coming. -539 +545 00:29:47,391 --> 00:29:50,540 If somebody is very experienced and has done it before and -540 +546 00:29:50,570 --> 00:29:53,931 has things to offer and can answer questions too, you know, -541 +547 00:29:53,931 --> 00:29:56,901 it's great to have a variety of voices from the community -542 +548 00:29:56,901 --> 00:30:00,050 who can talk about the things and, you know, we'll start -543 +549 00:30:00,050 --> 00:30:03,800 -with, you know, what is hacked -Tober Fest, um, because you +with, you know, what is +HacktoberFest, because you -544 -00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,016 -know, Plenty of people who've -been in tech for a long time +550 +00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,408 +know, I've met plenty of people +who've been in tech for a long -545 +551 +00:30:05,408 --> 00:30:07,016 +time + +552 00:30:07,046 --> 00:30:10,165 and they're not familiar with -Oktoberfest and it's okay. +Hactoberfest and it's okay. -546 +553 00:30:10,165 --> 00:30:12,415 It just depends on, you know, -the, the circles +the- the circles -547 +554 00:30:12,415 --> 00:30:15,986 -that you hang around. Right. Um, -to have exposure to that. +that you hang around. Right. to +have exposure to that. -548 +555 00:30:16,316 --> 00:30:19,135 -Uh, I think I, I was just in the +I think I, I was just in the like, free t-shirt. -549 +556 00:30:19,820 --> 00:30:23,000 Groups everywhere. And I was like, you go. -550 +557 00:30:24,381 --> 00:30:29,391 so we'll get you set up, learn how to, sign up for that. -551 +558 00:30:29,391 --> 00:30:33,230 Learn about how to find repositories that that eligible -552 +559 00:30:33,230 --> 00:30:38,691 for Hacktoberfest and talk through what it's like to work -553 +560 00:30:38,691 --> 00:30:43,971 your way through an issue about, -um, Creating a pull request +Creating a pull request -554 +561 00:30:43,971 --> 00:30:47,421 -and, and some tips for doing +and- and some tips for doing that or asking questions along -555 +562 00:30:47,421 --> 00:30:50,990 the way, but we'll definitely prioritize answering anyone's -556 +563 00:30:50,990 --> 00:30:56,260 -questions at that point. Um, -just to make sure that +questions at that point. just to +make sure that -557 +564 00:30:52,611 --> 00:30:58,721 everybody feels comfortable and everyone feels comfortable -558 +565 00:30:56,260 --> 00:31:00,461 asking whatever questions they feel like asking. Right. -559 +566 00:31:00,461 --> 00:31:04,391 It's okay to ask all of the questions because -560 +567 00:31:04,391 --> 00:31:06,221 that's what we're here for. We're here to answer them. -561 +568 00:31:08,526 --> 00:31:10,086 Dan: Plus, I think we all like talking about it. -562 +569 00:31:10,685 --> 00:31:13,415 I always want people to ask questions because it's just fun. -563 +570 00:31:13,476 --> 00:31:15,695 It's just fun to talk about all this stuff for me, you know? -564 +571 00:31:15,695 --> 00:31:21,076 -And, um, it's a. I like it can -be anxiety inducing. +And, it's a. I like it can be +anxiety inducing. -565 +572 00:31:21,076 --> 00:31:23,655 -It was, it was for me, uh, -certainly like getting, getting +It was, it was for me, certainly +like getting- getting -566 +573 00:31:23,655 --> 00:31:27,826 -started and, um, the, you know, +started and, the, you know, getting started with open -567 +574 00:31:27,826 --> 00:31:30,746 source, especially, especially contributing to like, to -568 +575 00:31:30,846 --> 00:31:33,405 projects of people who you don't know the people, right. -569 +576 00:31:33,405 --> 00:31:34,935 You don't know the maintainers and everything. -570 +577 00:31:34,996 --> 00:31:39,046 -Um, it doesn't have to be at, I +It doesn't have to be at, I think the, me, I think -571 +578 00:31:39,046 --> 00:31:42,846 the way that you get over it. The best way to get over -572 +579 00:31:40,625 --> 00:31:46,175 that anxiety is to, is to just kind of get started, you -573 +580 00:31:42,846 --> 00:31:47,496 -know, um, uh, ask questions, you -know, all of that stuff. +know, ask questions, you know, +all of that stuff. -574 +581 00:31:47,526 --> 00:31:49,445 And then, and then, and then we can kind of dive in. -575 +582 00:31:49,445 --> 00:31:51,905 And so that's why that's, that's gonna be our process -576 +583 00:31:51,905 --> 00:31:55,056 -again this year, you know? Um, -well this event +again this year, you know? well +this event -577 +584 00:31:52,895 --> 00:31:58,865 -should be fun. Uh, like on the -24th, that Beck +should be fun. like on the 24th, +that Beckha -578 +585 00:31:55,145 --> 00:32:02,885 is running and kind of hang out -and then, um, Going into October +and then, Going into October -579 +586 00:31:58,895 --> 00:32:05,165 for Virtual Coffee, you know, -we'll, we'll, we'll have some, +we'll- we'll- we'll have some, -580 +587 00:32:02,885 --> 00:32:08,165 we'll have some more specific -events, uh, set up and some more +events, set up and some more -581 -00:32:05,165 --> 00:32:09,905 +588 +00:32:05,165 --> 00:32:07,535 things kind of, kind of go in -that we'll a little bit later. +that we'll announce little bit -582 +589 +00:32:07,535 --> 00:32:09,905 +later. + +590 00:32:09,935 --> 00:32:12,695 -Um, in September, I guess, +In September, I guess, -583 +591 00:32:13,171 --> 00:32:13,290 Bekah: Yeah. -584 +592 00:32:13,296 --> 00:32:14,375 Dan: once we figured out what they all are. -585 +593 00:32:15,211 --> 00:32:17,310 Bekah: I think one of the cool things too, about how -586 +594 00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:20,520 much we've grown in the last year is that we have a lot -587 +595 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,780 -more maintainers with us year -than we did last year. +more maintainers with us this +year than we did last year. -588 +596 00:32:25,351 --> 00:32:28,411 who have their own projects or who have jobs at open -589 +597 00:32:28,411 --> 00:32:31,320 source, I'm working on open source projects. -590 +598 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,290 And so it's been great to kind of see that evolution of like, -591 +599 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,681 -oh, look, they participated last +Oh, look, they participated last year and got their first PRS. -592 +600 00:32:37,711 --> 00:32:43,040 And now they're like on, on this. Open source project -593 +601 00:32:41,510 --> 00:32:44,631 in their company. And, you know, they're, they -594 +602 00:32:44,631 --> 00:32:47,810 bring with them that amazing experience of like knowing -595 +603 00:32:47,810 --> 00:32:51,800 what that feels like and being able to help new people. -596 +604 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,951 -And there's a lot of, um, great +And there's a lot of, great projects and -597 +605 00:32:54,951 --> 00:32:57,171 also really meaningful projects out there too. -598 +606 00:32:57,171 --> 00:33:01,191 So going to be really exciting -to see much the +to see how much the -599 +607 00:33:01,191 --> 00:33:02,901 variety has grown as well. -600 +608 00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:07,211 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. That's a -great point. Um, and. +great point. and. -601 +609 00:33:08,826 --> 00:33:11,526 Well, I guess adding onto that, one of that, another thing that -602 +610 00:33:11,526 --> 00:33:15,635 we have new this year for us is, -uh, some, some team, a team +Some- some team, a team -603 +611 00:33:15,635 --> 00:33:18,455 of people that are helping out, -um, actually run the events +actually run the events -604 +612 00:33:18,455 --> 00:33:20,976 -and, you know, run, run these +and, you know, run- run these challenges and stuff like -605 +613 00:33:20,976 --> 00:33:24,516 that to our monthly challenge -team, um, especially it has +team, especially it has -606 +614 00:33:24,516 --> 00:33:29,046 -been, has been kicking butt. Uh, +been, has been kicking butt. I've been helping to get -607 +615 00:33:26,256 --> 00:33:32,256 this rolling in September and, -um, So I just want to shout +So I just want to shout -608 +616 00:33:29,526 --> 00:33:33,965 out to, to everybody there too. -Um, because that's +because that's -609 +617 00:33:32,736 --> 00:33:37,955 been really cool. It's been cool to have like a -610 +618 00:33:34,056 --> 00:33:41,135 -sort of a larger, um, I dunno, -group of people to generate +sort of a larger, I dunno, group +of people to generate -611 +619 00:33:37,955 --> 00:33:43,326 ideas, bounce ideas off of, and, and you know, everything. -612 +620 00:33:43,326 --> 00:33:45,336 So that's, that's really fun. I'm excited about that. -613 +621 00:33:45,925 --> 00:33:47,246 -Bekah: year at this time, we -didn't, we hadn't +Bekah: last year at this time, +we didn't, we hadn't -614 +622 00:33:47,246 --> 00:33:49,286 started monthly challenges that started in November. -615 +623 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:55,431 -Um, with our blog challenge. So -it's really cool too, to +with our blog challenge. So it's +really cool too, to -616 +624 00:33:52,371 --> 00:34:02,540 see like where we've almost made that full circle of a -617 +625 00:33:55,431 --> 00:34:08,201 year of monthly challenges and then next month, we're just -618 +626 00:34:02,540 --> 00:34:09,431 going to know, the last couple of months of having other -619 +627 00:34:09,431 --> 00:34:12,940 people step up the game with -monthly challenge and, and +monthly challenge and- and -620 +628 00:34:12,940 --> 00:34:16,210 have things thought through has been, you know, a really great -621 +629 00:34:16,210 --> 00:34:21,911 way to show how much support we have from the community that -622 +630 00:34:21,911 --> 00:34:25,181 allows us to do extra things and things that are meaningful. -623 +631 00:34:25,181 --> 00:34:28,210 -And, you know, I, I got a +And, you know, I- I got a message from one of the members. -624 +632 00:34:29,181 --> 00:34:34,161 Wait today is still August. So we did healthy -625 +633 00:34:30,951 --> 00:34:37,130 habits for healthy devs. And I checked in with -626 +634 00:34:34,581 --> 00:34:38,030 one of the members to see how they were doing. -627 +635 00:34:38,030 --> 00:34:40,731 And they said, well, this monthly challenge is getting me -628 +636 00:34:40,731 --> 00:34:44,090 through this month because it's requiring like, deliberately -629 +637 00:34:44,090 --> 00:34:49,041 thinking about my health and how I can turn off work and how -630 +638 00:34:49,041 --> 00:34:56,391 I can create healthy habits. And I just thought, you know, -631 +639 00:34:51,291 --> 00:35:01,655 what a wonderful example of how. The work that our members -632 +640 00:34:57,126 --> 00:35:06,485 provide to support us, goes to support everybody and -633 +641 00:35:02,376 --> 00:35:07,655 those meaningful moments make it all worth it. -634 +642 00:35:10,496 --> 00:35:17,126 Kirk: Yeah. I think part of what makes -635 +643 00:35:10,916 --> 00:35:18,775 this whole experience so good. It is. -636 +644 00:35:19,166 --> 00:35:24,085 -mean, it's obviously a great +I mean, it's obviously a great thing to work with to like -637 +645 00:35:24,115 --> 00:35:28,865 provide an experience for them. But it's also been a really -638 +646 00:35:26,255 --> 00:35:32,465 cool to see people who have not had the experience to -639 +647 00:35:28,865 --> 00:35:34,925 maybe like provide the support in many ways in this space, -640 +648 00:35:32,556 --> 00:35:37,655 get a chance to do that. You know, there's, there's so -641 +649 00:35:35,405 --> 00:35:41,766 many folks now in the different teams we have, sometimes I, -642 +650 00:35:37,655 --> 00:35:44,615 hard for me to keep track of all the different issues we -643 +651 00:35:41,766 --> 00:35:46,596 have because we have all these different channels where people -644 +652 00:35:44,615 --> 00:35:49,085 are doing amazing things. everyone's saying like, oh, -645 +653 00:35:47,346 --> 00:35:50,016 this is the person that would have done something like this. -646 +654 00:35:50,016 --> 00:35:52,465 And they're doing such amazing jobs. And. -647 +655 00:35:53,255 --> 00:35:56,226 You know, I feel like a big, a big part of what I like -648 +656 00:35:56,226 --> 00:35:58,865 about Virtual Coffee is that like, this is like, this is -649 +657 00:35:58,865 --> 00:36:02,945 no one's job, but also in the sense that for a lot of -650 +658 00:36:02,945 --> 00:36:07,626 us, it's the first time we were trying to do something -651 +659 00:36:07,806 --> 00:36:11,045 and all we really had was the belief that we could do it. -652 +660 00:36:11,405 --> 00:36:15,186 And like the belief that we can get support if we needed to. -653 +661 00:36:15,936 --> 00:36:20,405 And that to me has been, you know, super empowering. -654 -00:36:22,141 --> 00:36:26,431 -Having a space where you can to -help other people and try +662 +00:36:22,141 --> 00:36:24,286 +Just like Having a space where +you can to help other people and -655 +663 +00:36:24,286 --> 00:36:26,431 +try + +664 00:36:26,431 --> 00:36:29,521 and work with other people and try and initiative where -656 +665 00:36:29,521 --> 00:36:34,411 you can feel comfortable with making mistakes and having to -657 +666 00:36:34,411 --> 00:36:38,331 do things over and not having to -be perfect on zoom or, you know, +be perfect on Zoom or, you know, -658 +667 00:36:38,371 --> 00:36:42,990 just that's, that's hard to find sometimes in real life land, -659 +668 00:36:42,990 --> 00:36:45,990 like you feel like the work you have to do everything perfectly. -660 +669 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,320 sometimes even just like interpersonal relationships. -661 +670 00:36:51,146 --> 00:36:57,615 That feels really healthy. And that feels almost like as -662 +671 00:36:52,706 --> 00:37:01,036 important as like who were on the receiving it, being able -663 +672 00:36:57,615 --> 00:37:02,675 to help people on the giving end has been really good. -664 +673 00:37:02,896 --> 00:37:06,525 And I mean, the big discovery, which I guess isn't really -665 +674 00:37:06,525 --> 00:37:09,726 surprising in retrospect because it like why people want to give -666 +675 00:37:09,726 --> 00:37:12,465 back, they want to help, you know, our communities here. -667 +676 00:37:12,465 --> 00:37:14,505 Cause it's just like, oh, this is just a nice space -668 +677 00:37:14,505 --> 00:37:17,266 where I get to help folks out. -And, um, +And, -669 +678 00:37:18,780 --> 00:37:24,869 Dan: Yeah. I mean, I love that I was going -670 +679 00:37:19,409 --> 00:37:27,389 to segue into some other stuff, but do we have any final, -671 +680 00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:30,835 -like Hacktoberfest thoughts? Um, +like Hacktoberfest thoughts? other than. We're excited. -672 +681 00:37:31,489 --> 00:37:33,320 Bekah: Well, I just want to say too, just looking -673 +682 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,530 back at how much I've grown personally in the last year, -674 +683 00:37:36,530 --> 00:37:41,889 -learning from everybody. Um, Uh, -you know, as we're +learning from everybody. you +know, as we're -675 +684 00:37:38,269 --> 00:37:45,639 approaching this and we're doing -this event and all +this big event and all -676 +685 00:37:41,889 --> 00:37:48,699 of these things, think last year I things more in black -677 +686 00:37:45,639 --> 00:37:50,320 and white, like there was success or there was failure. -678 +687 00:37:50,679 --> 00:37:53,619 And I think this year for me, -it's, it's not ever about that. +it's- it's not ever about that. -679 +688 00:37:53,619 --> 00:37:55,780 It's about the growth. Am I growing? -680 +689 00:37:55,780 --> 00:37:58,269 You know, what am I doing to push myself forward and -681 +690 00:37:58,269 --> 00:37:59,774 to support the other people? think that's just a Testament -682 +691 00:37:59,774 --> 00:38:01,279 to. -683 +692 00:38:01,735 --> 00:38:05,695 The community that's here is supporting everyone -684 +693 00:38:05,695 --> 00:38:08,244 -because it isn't, it it's not +because it isn't, it- it's not success or failure. -685 +694 00:38:08,244 --> 00:38:12,505 We're all moving forward. We're all growing and we're -686 +695 00:38:09,534 --> 00:38:13,614 -growing together, um, and -growing in different ways. +growing together, and growing in +different ways. -687 -00:38:13,614 --> 00:38:20,394 -And so I think that, I'm, I'm -very that we up August with +696 +00:38:13,614 --> 00:38:17,004 +And so I think that, I'm- I'm +very excited that we wrap up -688 +697 +00:38:17,004 --> 00:38:20,394 +August with + +698 00:38:20,425 --> 00:38:24,355 healthy habits for healthy devs, because it gives a much better -689 -00:38:24,355 --> 00:38:29,844 +699 +00:38:24,355 --> 00:38:27,099 perspective going into some -really, you know, event heavy. +really, you know, event heavy -690 +700 +00:38:27,099 --> 00:38:29,843 +months. + +701 00:38:30,918 --> 00:38:38,047 Dan: I think that's a good point. I think you might be sub -691 +702 00:38:33,257 --> 00:38:43,527 tweeting me right now, but I make my own choices. Yeah. -692 +703 00:38:43,527 --> 00:38:47,467 I I'll echo that. I mean, it's, -uh, this +this -693 +704 00:38:44,498 --> 00:38:52,117 community is so great. And the, the we've sort of -694 +705 00:38:47,467 --> 00:38:55,717 -naturally, uh, focused on, on -mental health, I think, um, +naturally, focused on, on mental +health, I think, -695 +706 00:38:52,148 --> 00:38:57,907 from the beginning, you know, without, without any, without -696 +707 00:38:55,717 --> 00:39:00,628 any sort of decision, right. It was a natural thing -697 +708 00:38:57,907 --> 00:39:01,967 -because, um, the people here. -Care. +because, the people here. Care. -698 +709 00:39:02,057 --> 00:39:06,858 -Um, you know, and we see over -and over again, uh, everybody +You know, and we see over and +over again, everybody -699 +710 00:39:06,858 --> 00:39:09,827 knows and has experienced I'm -sure, uh, you know, +sure, you know, -700 +711 00:39:09,827 --> 00:39:12,858 -burnout and, uh, overworking and -all of that stuff. +burnout and, overworking and all +of that stuff. -701 +712 00:39:12,887 --> 00:39:18,047 -Um, uh, the fact that our -community is a community of +The fact that our community is a +community of -702 +713 00:39:18,047 --> 00:39:20,148 people who like, who care so much about each other, that, -703 +714 00:39:20,177 --> 00:39:23,148 you know, giving support for -that, uh, with mental +that, with mental -704 +715 00:39:23,148 --> 00:39:25,128 health just kind of comes naturally for everybody. -705 +716 00:39:25,128 --> 00:39:29,748 -And it, And especially, I, I w I -want to especially shout +And it, And especially, I- I wan +I want to especially shout -706 +717 00:39:29,748 --> 00:39:31,637 out to Kirk here, because this is one of the things that, -707 +718 00:39:31,637 --> 00:39:34,728 you know, that he injected into all of our thought -708 +719 00:39:34,728 --> 00:39:40,097 -processes at the beginning. Um, -this is while we were +processes at the beginning. this +is while we were -709 +720 00:39:35,927 --> 00:39:42,588 -maybe not practicing it, um, -this, you know, in this time +maybe not practicing it, this, +you know, in this time -710 +721 00:39:40,188 --> 00:39:45,588 of year, maybe September last year, we were pulling -711 +722 00:39:42,588 --> 00:39:48,608 together a documentation and resources and the website -712 +723 00:39:45,717 --> 00:39:53,273 -for active professed and. And +for Hacktoberfest and. And Kirk's, I just love, -713 +724 00:39:50,483 --> 00:39:54,222 I just loved Kirk's thoughts on all of it. -714 +725 00:39:54,222 --> 00:39:56,813 And, and the, the focus on the mental health and the -715 +726 00:39:56,813 --> 00:39:59,182 taking a break and the, you know, all that stuff, it's, -716 +727 00:39:59,213 --> 00:40:01,492 it can be easy to get, even with volunteer stuff, it can -717 +728 00:40:01,492 --> 00:40:05,612 -be easy to get caught up. Um, -and, uh, and everything, +be easy to get caught up. and, +and everything, -718 +729 00:40:02,512 --> 00:40:07,463 you know, and like Bekah said, the black and whiteness -719 +730 00:40:05,632 --> 00:40:10,697 of everything, you know, anyway, the mental health -720 +731 00:40:08,088 --> 00:40:12,197 -focus of our, of our, um, -community is amazing. +focus of our, of our, community +is amazing. -721 +732 00:40:12,197 --> 00:40:14,838 And I, never really put it together like that, but I think -722 +733 00:40:14,838 --> 00:40:17,657 that's a great point that August was sort of a breather month -723 +734 00:40:17,657 --> 00:40:19,547 that, you know, in a, in a mental health check-in month. -724 +735 00:40:19,637 --> 00:40:23,597 -Um, and I don't know, it's a -good, it's a great thing to +And I don't know, it's a good, +it's a great thing to -725 +736 00:40:23,597 --> 00:40:26,478 keep in mind, moving forward, moving forward for of us. -726 +737 00:40:27,858 --> 00:40:31,157 Even if I'm not always going to be good at doing what's that -727 +738 00:40:32,023 --> 00:40:37,152 Kirk: Why Dan and Bekah not good at taking breaks? No. -728 +739 00:40:37,603 --> 00:40:38,862 Who would think that. -729 +740 00:40:38,963 --> 00:40:39,773 -Bekah: into this? +Bekah: Waht? Why are you pulling +me into this? -730 +741 00:40:40,123 --> 00:40:41,472 -Kirk: You, you would identify +Kirk: You- you would identify with this? -731 +742 00:40:41,503 --> 00:40:46,782 but don't think you're not here. This podcast could -732 +743 00:40:44,443 --> 00:40:48,373 be called like people with letting go issues, -733 +744 00:40:49,188 --> 00:40:49,547 Bekah: Yeah. -734 +745 00:40:50,632 --> 00:40:53,932 Kirk: but it's okay. That's what we have -735 +746 00:40:52,043 --> 00:40:56,452 The community for to remind us like it's it's okay. -736 +747 00:40:56,597 --> 00:40:57,617 Bekah: frozen soundtrack. -737 +748 00:40:57,889 --> 00:40:58,880 Kirk: Oh, I still haven't watched it. -738 +749 00:40:59,034 --> 00:40:59,815 Bekah: you said, let it go. -739 +750 00:41:00,860 --> 00:41:04,530 Kirk: I've never seen Frozen. Not one or two. -740 +751 00:41:05,505 --> 00:41:09,784 Heard good things. I'll wait for the live action. -741 +752 00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:16,760 -Dan: Yeah. That's all right. Um, -so. +Dan: Yeah. That's all right. so. -742 +753 00:41:17,824 --> 00:41:21,965 -I, um, I think I said at the top +I- I think I said at the top maybe, but this is the -743 +754 00:41:21,965 --> 00:41:25,894 last episode of season three of our podcast and we're kind -744 -00:41:25,894 --> 00:41:33,755 +755 +00:41:25,894 --> 00:41:26,755 of wrapping up and things. So I wanted to, before we end -745 -00:41:27,155 --> 00:41:35,764 -this episode, um, I dunno, shout -out some, some different things +756 +00:41:27,155 --> 00:41:33,000 +this episode, I dunno, shout out +some, some different things -746 +757 00:41:33,755 --> 00:41:37,594 that have happened over either the last, you know, during -747 +758 00:41:35,764 --> 00:41:39,875 -the last season or the last, um, +the last season or the last, year with Virtual Coffee. -748 +759 00:41:40,385 --> 00:41:43,525 -Um, so I guess first the, uh, -podcast we +So I guess first the, podcast we -749 +760 00:41:43,525 --> 00:41:48,684 -passed 4,000 downloads. Um, but -you know, total for our +passed 4,000 downloads. but you +know, total for our -750 +761 00:41:45,054 --> 00:41:51,235 -podcasts, uh, a little bit ago. -And I just, I think +podcasts, a little bit ago. And +I just, I think -751 +762 00:41:48,804 --> 00:41:53,005 that's amazing. And I wanted to, say -752 +763 00:41:51,235 --> 00:41:53,846 thank you to everybody who's been listening. -753 +764 00:41:53,936 --> 00:41:55,646 -Uh, and everybody who's joined. +And everybody who's joined. -754 +765 00:41:55,740 --> 00:41:56,840 -Bekah: on and told their story. +Bekah: Everybody whose come on +and told their story. -755 +766 00:41:57,425 --> 00:42:02,235 -Dan: Yes. Uh, included Kirk is, -uh, +Dan: Yes. including Kirk is, -756 +767 00:41:58,445 --> 00:42:03,646 you know, repeat guest, and, -um, yeah, it's really great. +yeah, it's really great. -757 +768 00:42:03,646 --> 00:42:05,706 It's, it's crazy that there's so many people I've -758 +769 00:42:05,715 --> 00:42:08,626 listened to, to our podcast. I don't know. -759 +770 00:42:08,806 --> 00:42:12,465 -Um, it's hard to really -comprehend 4,000 people or +It's hard to really comprehend +4,000 people or -760 +771 00:42:12,465 --> 00:42:14,865 4,000, you know, listens I guess, or whatever. -761 +772 00:42:14,865 --> 00:42:17,655 -But, um, I just, I dunno, I -wanted to shout that +But, I just, I dunno, I wanted +to shout that -762 +773 00:42:17,655 --> 00:42:18,885 out and say, thank you. -763 +774 00:42:19,766 --> 00:42:22,275 Kirk: Am I the first person to -repeat on the podcast. +repeat on the podcast? -764 +775 00:42:22,768 --> 00:42:24,458 -Dan: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. +Dan: Yeah- Yeah, for sure. Yeah. -765 +776 00:42:24,697 --> 00:42:25,358 Bekah: co-host -766 +777 00:42:25,492 --> 00:42:25,913 -Kirk: the Martin +Kirk: I'm the Martin Short -767 +778 00:42:25,958 --> 00:42:26,887 Bekah: or sometimes cohost. -768 +779 00:42:28,043 --> 00:42:31,132 Kirk: the secret co-host only, you only get access to me if -769 -00:42:31,132 --> 00:42:36,213 +780 +00:42:31,132 --> 00:42:33,672 you listen to enough of it. So -if you're listening. +if you're listening -770 +781 +00:42:33,672 --> 00:42:36,212 +congratulations. + +782 00:42:37,487 --> 00:42:41,288 -Dan: Um, One thing Kirk said -earlier about, um, just the +Dan: One thing Kirk said earlier +about, just the -771 +783 00:42:41,288 --> 00:42:44,498 community kind of work together. Made me think of the -772 +784 00:42:42,248 --> 00:42:47,108 -coworking room as well. Um, a +coworking room as well. a co-working -773 +785 00:42:44,557 --> 00:42:51,367 room for anybody who is listening, who doesn't -774 +786 00:42:48,068 --> 00:42:53,527 -know is a, uh, a room it's a -slack channel in a room +know is a, room it's a slack +channel in a room -775 +787 00:42:51,367 --> 00:42:57,248 -in Virtual Coffee, psych that, -um, it's basically, +in Virtual Coffee, Slack that, +it's basically, -776 +788 00:42:53,527 --> 00:43:02,137 and always on zoom meeting. And so people can join the -777 +789 00:42:57,398 --> 00:43:02,978 meeting and work together and hang out together. -778 +790 00:43:02,978 --> 00:43:06,458 Kirk, I think, like you visit -often. Do you want to +pretty often. Do you want to -779 +791 00:43:07,057 --> 00:43:07,268 come here? -780 +792 00:43:07,762 --> 00:43:09,563 -Kirk: live in the court. Uh, +Kirk: I pretty much live in the +co workingroom. -781 +793 00:43:09,668 --> 00:43:10,117 Dan: can you, can -782 +794 00:43:10,168 --> 00:43:10,288 Bekah: Yeah. -783 +795 00:43:10,358 --> 00:43:11,018 -Dan: about it a little bit? +Dan: Can you talk about it a +little bit? -784 +796 00:43:11,152 --> 00:43:13,193 Kirk: well, I mean, first I think like the important thing -785 +797 00:43:13,193 --> 00:43:16,702 is to say, shout out to Dan for making the coworking room. -786 +798 00:43:16,762 --> 00:43:18,202 -Um, it, +it, -787 +799 00:43:18,307 --> 00:43:20,018 Dan: I don't know. We're shouting out other -788 +800 00:43:18,547 --> 00:43:20,018 people in this sector. -789 +801 00:43:20,603 --> 00:43:23,663 Kirk: I, yeah, but like from the, from the slack side, -790 +802 00:43:23,663 --> 00:43:25,432 it looks like very simple. You hit join again. -791 +803 00:43:26,108 --> 00:43:29,228 But I know like you're doing like several magics to get -792 +804 00:43:29,228 --> 00:43:34,958 that all working smoothly. So, I mean, you were sincerely -793 +805 00:43:30,338 --> 00:43:38,617 rewarded for your efforts. I think the folks that use the -794 +806 00:43:34,958 --> 00:43:42,938 -room really, really value it. -Um, for a lot of members, there +room really- really value it. +for a lot of members, there -795 +807 00:43:39,307 --> 00:43:44,737 are a couple of our members. Sometimes it's difficult -796 +808 00:43:42,938 --> 00:43:47,978 for them to get to regular -coffees, I've had warranty +coffees, I've had one or two -797 +809 00:43:44,737 --> 00:43:50,047 folks say, but I know I can always jump in coworking -798 +810 00:43:47,978 --> 00:43:52,327 and there's usually someone there and sometimes that's my -799 +811 00:43:50,047 --> 00:43:54,188 -Virtual Coffee for the week. Uh, -so that's really good. +Virtual Coffee for the week. so +that's really good. -800 +812 00:43:55,012 --> 00:44:00,472 -And, you know, it's, it's just +And, you know, it's- it's just become, it's just another -801 +813 00:44:00,563 --> 00:44:03,472 space, another platform for VC members to interact with each -802 +814 00:44:03,472 --> 00:44:08,512 -other and provide support. Uh, +other and provide support. sometimes people will -803 +815 00:44:06,052 --> 00:44:10,643 have questions and helping pairing, and they're like, -804 +816 00:44:08,512 --> 00:44:12,773 Hey, you know, if no one's in the co-working room, jump in. -805 -00:44:12,773 --> 00:44:17,152 +817 +00:44:12,773 --> 00:44:14,962 Or, and then the coworking room -becomes like a little and learn +becomes like a little watch and -806 +818 +00:44:14,962 --> 00:44:17,151 +learn + +819 00:44:17,152 --> 00:44:20,782 session where, know, everyone's just like, trying to help the -807 +820 00:44:20,782 --> 00:44:22,882 person do the problem, but also watching people kind of -808 -00:44:22,882 --> 00:44:26,887 -pair up and go through school. -So it's, it's got a lot of +821 +00:44:22,882 --> 00:44:24,884 +pair up and go through +solutions. So it's, it's got a -809 +822 +00:44:24,884 --> 00:44:26,886 +lot of + +823 00:44:24,427 --> 00:44:31,297 -purposes, but it's, it's +purposes, but it's- it's definitely I know the members -810 +824 00:44:26,887 --> 00:44:36,077 really appreciate really enjoy. -Um, shout out also to Meg, who +shout out also to Meg, who -811 +825 00:44:31,898 --> 00:44:42,637 I think also there's a lot of -work in there and, um, Yeah, +work in there and, Yeah, -812 +826 00:44:36,728 --> 00:44:45,108 it's, I think it quickly rose up the ranks to become like -813 +827 00:44:42,637 --> 00:44:49,838 one of the coolest parts of VC who had coworking helping -814 +828 00:44:45,108 --> 00:44:49,838 pairing just like a, this is. -815 +829 00:44:51,253 --> 00:44:55,092 Dan: Yeah, the and I feel like -they kind of are almost, uh, +they kind of are almost, -816 +830 00:44:55,782 --> 00:44:57,282 you had to work together, right? Help and pairing. -817 +831 00:44:57,742 --> 00:45:00,402 have a help and pairing channel, you know, Just -818 +832 00:45:00,402 --> 00:45:02,922 very often, see somebody asks a question and somebody -819 +833 00:45:02,922 --> 00:45:05,563 answered, Hey, I have a minute. Let's jump into -820 +834 00:45:03,882 --> 00:45:07,333 -the coworking room. Um, which is +the coworking room. which is amazing. -821 +835 00:45:07,873 --> 00:45:13,092 -I, uh, we were going to add our, +I, we were going to add our, like the, to our newsletter. -822 +836 00:45:13,092 --> 00:45:16,422 We're going to add the longest meeting of the month or longest, -823 +837 00:45:16,422 --> 00:45:18,402 and not meeting with the -longest, uh, coworking session. +longest, coworking session. -824 +838 00:45:18,402 --> 00:45:21,313 Right. So can last, you know, somebody starts a session. -825 +839 00:45:21,313 --> 00:45:23,143 The session lasts until the last person leaves. Right. -826 +840 00:45:23,143 --> 00:45:24,913 So it doesn't necessarily have to be that person -827 +841 00:45:24,913 --> 00:45:27,103 staying on the whole time. Right. And so. -828 +842 00:45:27,898 --> 00:45:30,628 -Uh, subscribe to your newsletter -if you want to see it the +Subscribe to your newsletter if +you want to see it the -829 +843 00:45:30,688 --> 00:45:34,197 longest and August, but I, that made me want to look it up what -830 +844 00:45:34,197 --> 00:45:40,677 the historical longest one. And -so it was, um, 789 +so it was, 789 -831 +845 00:45:35,157 --> 00:45:41,967 -minutes, um, on, on the, at the, -end of July, July 24th. +minutes, on- on the, at the, end +of July- July 24th. -832 +846 00:45:42,447 --> 00:45:46,728 -Um, so that, you know, I mean, +So that, you know, I mean, that's, whatever -833 +847 00:45:46,728 --> 00:45:47,628 it is, I did this -834 +848 00:45:47,777 --> 00:45:49,307 -Kirk: No, don't go for it to +Kirk: No, don't convert it to hours. -835 +849 00:45:49,338 --> 00:45:52,338 It doesn't sound as cool. Okay. So it sounds pretty cool. -836 +850 00:45:52,422 --> 00:45:57,132 -Dan: hours and, uh, yeah. Yeah. -That's, uh, it's, uh, +Dan: 13 hours over 13 hours, +yeah- Yeah. That's, it's, -837 +851 00:45:54,793 --> 00:46:00,163 it, it's pretty cool. And it's just cool that -838 +852 00:45:57,132 --> 00:46:01,753 somebody, like some of our friends were just -839 +853 00:46:00,163 --> 00:46:02,382 hanging out for that long. You know what I mean? -840 +854 00:46:02,532 --> 00:46:06,432 -Um, I love it. We, we have, I -don't know, +I love it. We, we have, I don't +know, -841 +855 00:46:03,643 --> 00:46:07,693 almost 350 sessions have happened since we started it. -842 +856 00:46:09,268 --> 00:46:11,097 February, maybe they're at the beginning of the year. -843 +857 00:46:11,128 --> 00:46:16,197 -Um, and, uh, it's been cool. So -if you are a member and +And, it's been cool. So if you +are a member and -844 +858 00:46:13,498 --> 00:46:16,947 haven't checked it out, go ahead and check it out. -845 +859 00:46:17,038 --> 00:46:19,588 -And, uh, if you aren't a Virtual +And, if you aren't a Virtual Coffee member, -846 +860 00:46:19,588 --> 00:46:22,438 this is just one of the many things you're missing. -847 -00:46:25,077 --> 00:46:29,608 -Um, the, what else? We got -podcast as +861 +00:46:25,077 --> 00:46:28,000 +The, what else? We got podcast +as -848 -00:46:30,288 --> 00:46:33,657 -room sponsorships. Bekah, do you +862 +00:46:28,077 --> 00:46:29,608 +Bekah: We got sponsorships + +863 +00:46:33,288 --> 00:46:34,000 +sponsorships. Bekah, do you wanna tell -849 -00:46:32,188 --> 00:46:33,657 +864 +00:46:34,188 --> 00:46:34,657 us about sponsorships? -850 -00:46:33,938 --> 00:46:35,588 +865 +00:46:34,938 --> 00:46:35,588 Bekah: Sure. I'll tell you about sponsorships. -851 +866 00:46:36,097 --> 00:46:40,027 -Um, so you can sponsor Virtual +So you can sponsor Virtual Coffee, help us keep the -852 +867 00:46:40,027 --> 00:46:45,668 -coffee brewing, um, on GitHub. -I'll have a link in the show +coffee brewing, on GitHub. I'll +have a link in the show -853 +868 00:46:42,338 --> 00:46:50,128 notes for that, but if you just go to GitHub.com/Virtual-Coffee. -854 +869 00:46:50,487 --> 00:46:52,887 There'll be a little heart sponsor button and there's -855 +870 00:46:52,887 --> 00:46:57,268 different tiers there for different ways that you can, -856 +871 00:46:57,327 --> 00:47:02,697 -um, contribute, um, to Virtual -Coffee, to make sure that we +Contribute, to Virtual Coffee, +to make sure that we -857 +872 00:47:02,697 --> 00:47:06,358 can cover some of the costs that are, that, that are -858 +873 00:47:06,358 --> 00:47:10,677 incurred to run Virtual Coffee. And I think maybe we'll. -859 +874 00:47:11,458 --> 00:47:14,697 Put something up there. We'll be talking -860 +875 00:47:12,898 --> 00:47:16,168 more about having a Hacktoberfest sponsor too. -861 +876 00:47:16,168 --> 00:47:19,228 So if you're listening to this and you know, somebody who'd be -862 +877 00:47:19,228 --> 00:47:26,458 interested and sponsoring all of our fun, please just reach out -863 +878 00:47:26,458 --> 00:47:28,788 to us at hello@virtualcoffee.io. -864 +879 00:47:30,597 --> 00:47:34,137 -Dan: Yep. Um, we have, we have -on our home on a, on like +Dan: Yep. we have, we have on +our home on a, on like -865 +880 00:47:34,137 --> 00:47:38,668 -on our website website. Um, we -have a section +on our website website. we have +a section -866 +881 00:47:36,407 --> 00:47:42,327 of our sponsors too. So you can see who has supported -867 +882 00:47:38,668 --> 00:47:45,818 -us so far that we have like 26, -26 sponsors, um, and I want +us so far that we have like 26- +26 sponsors, and I want -868 +883 00:47:42,327 --> 00:47:47,047 to say thank you to everybody who has sponsored us so far. -869 +884 00:47:48,128 --> 00:47:51,608 -Well, um, yeah. So is there -anything else +Well, yeah. So is there anything +else -870 +885 00:47:49,027 --> 00:47:52,597 we wanted to, we wanted to cover before we wrap up. -871 +886 00:47:53,202 --> 00:47:55,393 Bekah: I just want to say thank you to everybody that has -872 +887 00:47:55,393 --> 00:48:00,672 donated their time and their -effort, um, resources to making +effort, resources to making -873 +888 00:48:00,672 --> 00:48:03,733 sure that everybody has been supported over the last year -874 +889 00:48:03,733 --> 00:48:09,943 that we've been doing this. You know, it's still an amazing -875 +890 00:48:05,172 --> 00:48:15,583 thing in my mind that here we are a year later, closer and -876 +891 00:48:09,943 --> 00:48:17,503 together and grown so much. And we're able to do this again. -877 +892 00:48:17,503 --> 00:48:21,043 So you for everyone for making sure that that -878 +893 00:48:21,043 --> 00:48:21,702 -got to happen, right. +got to happen, again. -879 +894 00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:30,041 -Kirk: Yeah. I think, um, I just -want to +Kirk: Yeah. I think, I just want +to -880 +895 00:48:23,170 --> 00:48:31,905 -say I, I, I still get a lot of. +say I- I- I still get a lot of. I don't know. -881 +896 00:48:31,905 --> 00:48:34,706 I still, a lot of people ask me like, Hey, you know, what -882 +897 00:48:34,706 --> 00:48:38,275 happens when VC gets too big? Or what are we going to -883 +898 00:48:36,326 --> 00:48:41,996 -do when PC gets super big? And +do when VC gets super big? And I'm like, well, I mean, -884 +899 00:48:38,275 --> 00:48:48,206 you know, every community has growing pains, I think what -885 +900 00:48:41,996 --> 00:48:53,755 makes me feel really happy and, -um, really positive is no, +really positive is no, -886 +901 00:48:48,266 --> 00:48:58,615 -every, every time I come into +every- every time I come into VC, I still see people being -887 +902 00:48:53,755 --> 00:49:01,346 -really, uh, warm and caring. I -still see people +really, warm and caring. I still +see people -888 +903 00:48:59,576 --> 00:49:02,246 supporting each other and the heavy channel. -889 +904 00:49:02,666 --> 00:49:05,275 I still see people supporting each other and helping pairing. -890 +905 00:49:05,786 --> 00:49:07,976 And I think the cool thing is there's a lot of -891 +906 00:49:07,976 --> 00:49:11,525 folks who have been here since last Hacktoberfest. -892 +907 00:49:11,545 --> 00:49:14,306 You know, you have folks who have been here for -893 +908 00:49:12,146 --> 00:49:17,666 over a year with us, and that's amazing, but we also have a lot -894 +909 00:49:14,306 --> 00:49:22,045 of new folks, know, folks with been here a month, two months, -895 +910 00:49:17,666 --> 00:49:26,501 three months, and they are. Enjoying it, loving it and -896 +911 00:49:23,291 --> 00:49:29,411 then making new friendships and supporting other people and -897 +912 00:49:26,561 --> 00:49:33,460 being supportive themselves. And I don't know that just, -898 +913 00:49:30,010 --> 00:49:35,650 -it just always makes me, me feel +it just always makes me- me feel really good every time -899 +914 00:49:33,460 --> 00:49:39,380 I see someone who hasn't been here that long, but when we -900 +915 00:49:35,650 --> 00:49:41,920 do our Friday gratitude or Wednesday shout outs, like, -901 +916 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:45,460 Hey, I really liked this space. And I really liked the people -902 +917 00:49:41,951 --> 00:49:47,530 here and I want to help out. -And, um, that makes me +And, that makes me -903 +918 00:49:45,641 --> 00:49:48,400 think that, you know, they're still doing that. -904 +919 00:49:49,447 --> 00:49:52,777 -Dan: Yeah, I would, uh, I, I -would just echo both +Dan: Yeah, I would, I- I would +just echo both -905 +920 00:49:53,137 --> 00:49:58,358 what you've all said. You know, this community is -906 +921 00:49:54,188 --> 00:49:59,257 amazing and I'm very glad and proud to be part of it. -907 +922 00:49:59,858 --> 00:50:03,547 And the members. What makes you know, -908 +923 00:50:01,628 --> 00:50:05,047 -what make it amazing. And, um, I +what make it amazing. And, I don't know. -909 +924 00:50:05,047 --> 00:50:05,978 I'm looking forward to another year. -910 +925 00:50:05,978 --> 00:50:08,947 -I, I am very, very pumped about +I- I am very, very pumped about Hacktoberfest this year. -911 +926 00:50:09,007 --> 00:50:11,197 I'm very pumped about the things we have going on. -912 +927 00:50:11,588 --> 00:50:16,268 The people that are going to be involved I've yet -913 +928 00:50:16,268 --> 00:50:19,478 to brew up exactly how I'm going to, you know, try to. -914 +929 00:50:20,273 --> 00:50:23,842 Murder myself at the end of the month, trying to redo -915 +930 00:50:23,842 --> 00:50:25,132 something, but I'm sure I'll think of something. -916 +931 00:50:25,463 --> 00:50:27,532 -And I'm pumped about that to you +And I'm pumped about that too honestly, because there -917 +932 00:50:27,532 --> 00:50:32,092 -was a lot of fun last year. Um, -so yeah, I guess, I +was a lot of fun last year. so +yeah, I guess, I -918 +933 00:50:28,913 --> 00:50:35,123 -guess that's pretty much it. Um, -if you want to keep up to +guess that's pretty much it. if +you want to keep up to -919 +934 00:50:32,483 --> 00:50:38,273 -date with us, uh, you know, +date with us, you know, subscribe to our newsletter, -920 +935 00:50:35,123 --> 00:50:42,563 -um, follow us on Twitter at, uh, -Virtual Coffee +follow us on Twitter at, Virtual +Coffee -921 +936 00:50:38,393 --> 00:50:42,563 IO, follow us somewhere. -922 +937 00:50:43,132 --> 00:50:45,322 Bekah: To check out our site. We've got lots of -923 +938 00:50:43,882 --> 00:50:45,322 good stuff on there. -924 +939 00:50:45,713 --> 00:50:46,972 Dan: Yeah, we have a dope website. -925 +940 00:50:47,003 --> 00:50:52,253 -It's at Virtual Coffee.io. Um, +It's at Virtual Coffee.io. subscribe on your podcast. -926 +941 00:50:52,552 --> 00:50:56,302 Software of choice. If you have not done that yet, -927 +942 00:50:53,813 --> 00:50:58,132 what are you supposed to say? Hit that something about, -928 +943 00:50:58,182 --> 00:51:01,592 Bekah: hit like, no, as for YouTube, you can -929 +944 00:51:01,612 --> 00:51:01,913 Dan: oh -930 +945 00:51:02,012 --> 00:51:03,753 Bekah: our YouTube channel too. Cause we've got one -931 +946 00:51:03,853 --> 00:51:05,382 Dan: Oh yeah. We have a YouTube channel. -932 +947 00:51:05,742 --> 00:51:07,932 We have a YouTube channel. So subscribe to that. -933 +948 00:51:08,282 --> 00:51:09,932 Bekah: on the podcast and leave us a message. -934 +949 00:51:09,932 --> 00:51:13,532 It's always so great. When we get messages or -935 +950 00:51:10,833 --> 00:51:14,282 reviews about our podcasts, when they're nice. -936 +951 00:51:14,282 --> 00:51:17,432 We never got a mean one. So don't leave a mean -937 +952 00:51:15,213 --> 00:51:17,432 one, but ones are good. -938 +953 00:51:18,023 --> 00:51:21,862 Dan: Nice. All five stars only as Jason Concepcion would -939 +954 00:51:21,862 --> 00:51:25,972 -say on his podcast. Um, yes, we +say on his podcast. yes, we would -940 +955 00:51:23,123 --> 00:51:29,963 -love to hear from you. Um, if -you have suggestions or, +love to hear from you. if you +have suggestions or, -941 +956 00:51:26,032 --> 00:51:31,612 -um, questions, comments hit us -up on Twitter, slack, anything. +Questions, comments hit us up on +Twitter, Slack, anything. -942 +957 00:51:31,672 --> 00:51:35,873 -Um, and yeah, I guess we will -see you next season. +And yeah, I guess we will see +you next season. -943 +958 00:51:36,233 --> 00:51:38,452 -Next season will drop, uh, -beginning of October. +Next season will drop, beginning +of October. -944 +959 00:51:38,452 --> 00:51:40,313 So we're going to take you to take a month off podcast -945 +960 00:51:40,313 --> 00:51:44,378 -and we will be back a season. -Uh, in October. +and we will be back a season. in +October. -946 +961 00:51:44,597 --> 00:51:46,217 -Kirk: Bye for me, definitely. +Kirk: Bye for me, definitely +Bekah. -947 +962 00:51:48,471 --> 00:51:49,280 Dan: All right. Bye everyone. -948 +963 00:51:49,420 --> 00:51:55,878 Bekah: Bye. Thank you for listening -949 +964 00:51:53,929 --> 00:51:57,349 to this episode of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. -950 +965 00:51:57,619 --> 00:52:00,929 This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot -951 +966 00:52:00,949 --> 00:52:06,139 Weigel and edited by Dan Ott. If you have questions or -952 +967 00:52:03,768 --> 00:52:10,568 comments, you can hit us up on Twitter at VirtualCoffeeIO, -953 +968 00:52:06,139 --> 00:52:12,679 or you can email us at podcast@virtualcoffee.io. -954 +969 00:52:13,398 --> 00:52:15,978 You can find the show notes, plus you can sign up for our -955 +970 00:52:15,978 --> 00:52:19,068 newsletter to find out what Virtual Coffee's been up to on -956 +971 00:52:19,068 --> 00:52:22,059 our website at virtualcoffee.io. -957 +972 00:52:22,773 --> 00:52:25,023 Dan: Please subscribe to our podcast and be sure -958 +973 00:52:25,023 --> 00:52:27,454 to leave us a review. Thanks for listening. -959 +974 00:52:27,454 --> 00:52:28,684 And we'll see you next week. \ No newline at end of file From 7921171c8f0b9d4027b8f28d7e4a80eb8de75f3a Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Chris Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 13:48:17 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 05/13] added dashes after repeated words. --- episodes/4_2.srt | 56 ++++++++++++++++++++++++------------------------ 1 file changed, 28 insertions(+), 28 deletions(-) diff --git a/episodes/4_2.srt b/episodes/4_2.srt index aa1da32..6e1da5b 100644 --- a/episodes/4_2.srt +++ b/episodes/4_2.srt @@ -1,7 +1,7 @@ 1 00:00:05,203 --> 00:00:07,213 Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Hello, and -welcome to season 4, episode 2 +welcome to Season 4, Episode 2 2 00:00:07,213 --> 00:00:09,223 @@ -435,7 +435,7 @@ cool. Todd's here. 94 00:04:26,093 --> 00:04:28,255 Bekah: I just think it's- it's -funny, like when, when new +funny, like when- when new 95 00:04:28,255 --> 00:04:30,417 @@ -825,7 +825,7 @@ list every single one or 178 00:08:59,073 --> 00:09:01,433 -whatever, but like run, run us +whatever, but like run- run us through a little bit of how 179 @@ -844,7 +844,7 @@ know, 182 00:09:06,364 --> 00:09:08,734 a specialist, for whatever that -means for you. You +means for you- You 183 00:09:08,734 --> 00:09:11,104 @@ -1199,7 +1199,7 @@ where you log in and it wasn't a 257 00:14:01,124 --> 00:14:06,583 public facing site. And, from -there it would be-been +there it would be- been 258 00:14:06,583 --> 00:14:12,042 @@ -1549,12 +1549,12 @@ they, 332 00:18:56,241 --> 00:18:59,092 -what, what they make or anything +what- what they make or anything like that, but you know, like 333 00:18:59,092 --> 00:19:03,142 -where in the process are you, +where in the process are you- are you, doing like 334 @@ -1620,7 +1620,7 @@ Dan: Does that make sense? 347 00:19:36,277 --> 00:19:42,946 -Todd: yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm sure +Todd: yeah- yeah. I'm, I'm sure it's going to be probably a 348 @@ -1721,7 +1721,7 @@ nothing's a hundred percent 368 00:20:58,336 --> 00:21:05,537 -accessible. it's, it's a lot +accessible. it's- it's a lot easier on your teams. You know, 369 @@ -1804,7 +1804,7 @@ first. 386 00:21:47,366 --> 00:21:51,807 -Todd: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and +Todd: Yeah. Yeah. And- and- and it's still really early in the 387 @@ -1993,7 +1993,7 @@ like guys saying thumbs up or 427 00:24:03,287 --> 00:24:05,267 -something like that, that, you +something like that- that, you know, you know what I mean? like 428 @@ -2118,7 +2118,7 @@ all? 453 00:25:25,297 --> 00:25:29,797 Todd: it skips over it. So -you're loo the, the user is +you're loo the- the user is 454 00:25:29,797 --> 00:25:31,326 @@ -2296,7 +2296,7 @@ it'll come through normal texts 491 00:27:50,826 --> 00:27:52,506 and then it'll just read like, -blah, blah, blah dot JPEG. +blah- blah- blah dot JPEG. 492 00:27:52,506 --> 00:27:54,186 @@ -2394,7 +2394,7 @@ is a separate topic, like that, 512 00:28:44,541 --> 00:28:48,711 that little, like, pick that -little bit, just, just even just +little bit, just- just even just 513 00:28:48,711 --> 00:28:52,642 @@ -2525,7 +2525,7 @@ to 540 00:30:20,636 --> 00:30:25,693 -it that I really, really like, +it that I really- really like, using and, As far as, 541 @@ -2554,7 +2554,7 @@ hundreds. I got one hundreds 546 00:30:42,801 --> 00:30:46,342 across the board and you know, -that, that virtual confetti +that- that virtual confetti 547 00:30:46,342 --> 00:30:53,471 @@ -2608,7 +2608,7 @@ I 558 00:31:26,156 --> 00:31:33,926 -use that, that tool as well. and +use that- that tool as well. and I will provide, the link 559 @@ -2642,7 +2642,7 @@ just a problem with teaching 565 00:31:51,429 --> 00:31:54,413 developers in general. There's -not a focus on it. It's not +not a focus on it- It's not 566 00:31:54,413 --> 00:31:57,397 @@ -2865,7 +2865,7 @@ a reason that you went down this 612 00:35:15,373 --> 00:35:17,877 -path or, or something that kind +path or- or something that kind of inspired this journey? Or 613 @@ -2976,7 +2976,7 @@ don't have a voice. And, I 635 00:37:12,186 --> 00:37:17,452 -think as, as accessibility, +think as- as accessibility, professional, We all, do we try 636 @@ -3416,7 +3416,7 @@ because 727 00:42:57,121 --> 00:43:02,161 I think no matter what part of -tech or, or any industry really +tech or- or any industry really 728 00:43:02,161 --> 00:43:05,612 @@ -3434,7 +3434,7 @@ you know, 731 00:43:09,782 --> 00:43:14,251 -that that's what growing is +that- that's what growing is about. That's what is important 732 @@ -3600,7 +3600,7 @@ something about the new, you 766 00:45:22,358 --> 00:45:25,388 -know, whatever coming, coming +know, whatever coming- coming down the line. I've got a 767 @@ -3642,7 +3642,7 @@ that. 775 00:45:50,438 --> 00:45:55,418 -So, yeah, it's, it's always +So, yeah, it's- it's always been, you know, Hey, you 776 @@ -3677,7 +3677,7 @@ getting 782 00:46:15,173 --> 00:46:17,003 started in this. It's not been a -focus. How, how do I get +focus. How- how do I get 783 00:46:17,003 --> 00:46:18,833 @@ -3694,7 +3694,7 @@ you 786 00:46:22,764 --> 00:46:26,333 -know, I think in, in every place +know, I think in- in every place and space we should, we should 787 @@ -3833,7 +3833,7 @@ you 816 00:47:27,639 --> 00:47:30,398 know, how would you kind of -convince them that this, this +convince them that this- this 817 00:47:30,398 --> 00:47:31,179 @@ -4009,7 +4009,7 @@ then 853 00:49:50,318 --> 00:49:52,703 -it should be much, much easier +it should be much- much easier to get the entire organization 854 From ffcbc5aa063c710e13d5d55117a9d2b33f8a3976 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Chris Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 15:27:38 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 06/13] edits to season 3 epiisode 9 --- episodes/3_9.srt | 184 +++++++++++++++++++++++------------------------ 1 file changed, 92 insertions(+), 92 deletions(-) diff --git a/episodes/3_9.srt b/episodes/3_9.srt index aee7547..09187ff 100644 --- a/episodes/3_9.srt +++ b/episodes/3_9.srt @@ -1,7 +1,7 @@ 1 00:00:05,219 --> 00:00:06,748 Kirk Shillingford: Hello, and -welcome to season 3, episode 9 +welcome to Season 3, Episode 9 2 00:00:06,748 --> 00:00:08,277 @@ -50,7 +50,7 @@ Definitely Bekah. 11 00:00:33,003 --> 00:00:35,899 Today we have, a special episode -is the last +it is the last 12 00:00:35,899 --> 00:00:40,999 @@ -73,11 +73,11 @@ Bekah, 16 00:00:47,025 --> 00:00:47,999 -Kirk: I am definatly here. +Kirk: I am definatly here. [laughter] 17 00:00:44,819 --> 00:00:54,198 -Dan: All the Bekahs are here. so +Dan: All the Bekahs are here. so we have some exciting 18 @@ -98,7 +98,7 @@ last year and what we have going 21 00:01:01,353 --> 00:01:07,683 on this year, as well as just -wrap up the season our podcast. +wrap up the season of our podcast. 22 00:01:08,073 --> 00:01:10,894 @@ -208,7 +208,7 @@ mean, I don't know. 44 00:02:25,395 --> 00:02:27,735 -There's, there's some computer +There's- there's some computer stuff I could do, but I think 45 @@ -315,11 +315,11 @@ And, if we did this 66 00:03:31,622 --> 00:03:36,812 question before, I didn't do -this question before, so. +this question before, so. it's fine. 67 00:03:37,635 --> 00:03:37,786 -Bekah: I +Bekah: I would go to your Sudoku class. 68 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:44,381 @@ -352,7 +352,7 @@ different type of 74 00:03:54,281 --> 00:03:55,911 -Sudoku, so it's not. +Sudoku, so it's not weird. 75 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,991 @@ -400,7 +400,7 @@ YouTube channel called 84 00:04:28,730 --> 00:04:38,661 -cracking the cryptic where you +Cracking The Cryptic where you can watch two, English 85 @@ -415,8 +415,8 @@ thing in the world to watch 87 00:04:43,701 --> 00:04:46,761 -a middle age British man scoff, -a beautiful number. +a middle age British men scoff, +"What a beautiful number." 88 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,685 @@ -446,7 +446,7 @@ hints, not just 93 00:05:00,286 --> 00:05:03,315 like random hints. It's great. -It's good app classics in +It's a good app. Classic Sudoku 94 00:05:03,430 --> 00:05:04,031 @@ -454,7 +454,7 @@ Dan: So, 95 00:05:04,125 --> 00:05:04,456 -Kirk: the cryptic +Kirk: by Cracking The Cryptic 96 00:05:05,591 --> 00:05:11,110 @@ -480,7 +480,7 @@ Dan: Most boring. 101 00:05:20,586 --> 00:05:21,545 -Kirk: It's told you about custom +Kirk: It's told you about custom Sudoku 102 00:05:21,870 --> 00:05:25,471 @@ -494,7 +494,7 @@ know, for making a silly, well, 104 00:05:30,060 --> 00:05:33,120 -not silly, but a potential names +not silly, but a pretentious names for themselves, you know, it's 105 @@ -503,8 +503,8 @@ just not, it's just not there. 106 00:05:35,146 --> 00:05:40,446 -Kirk: therapies. We're trying to -really upset around. +Kirk: we're already doing Sudokus. We're trying to +really hard to not upset everyone around us. 107 00:05:41,475 --> 00:05:45,295 @@ -538,8 +538,8 @@ time, and that's kind of what 113 00:06:02,076 --> 00:06:11,930 -stands out in my mind as, as -the, When, what, when we +stands out in my mind as- as +the, When, What, When we 114 00:06:06,216 --> 00:06:15,800 @@ -563,7 +563,7 @@ And so, you know, 118 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:29,420 -what, what we did last year, we +what- what we did last year, we had an issue. 119 @@ -583,7 +583,7 @@ source contributions that 122 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:48,471 -sponsored by digital ocean. And, +sponsored by Digital Ocean. And, once you sign up, I 123 @@ -608,7 +608,7 @@ mean, I learned about. 127 00:07:00,451 --> 00:07:05,630 -Organizing this working with +Organizing this. working with mentors contributors 128 @@ -619,7 +619,7 @@ a maintainer as well. 129 00:07:08,370 --> 00:07:11,911 So, you know, there were so many -lessons that, +lessons that- 130 00:07:11,971 --> 00:07:18,841 @@ -666,7 +666,7 @@ Bekah: By we, you mean you. 139 00:07:47,995 --> 00:07:53,689 -Dan: okay. The, the roy, the +Dan: okay. The, the roy- the Royal we, 140 @@ -697,7 +697,7 @@ stuff like that. 145 00:08:11,029 --> 00:08:13,399 And then had a kickoff meeting -altogether where w where we +altogether where- where we 146 00:08:13,399 --> 00:08:16,790 @@ -706,7 +706,7 @@ Submitting a pull request. 147 00:08:17,540 --> 00:08:20,180 -In a zoom meeting and that was a +In a Zoom meeting and that was a lot of fun. 148 @@ -778,7 +778,7 @@ month, it was just, 162 00:09:00,620 --> 00:09:06,289 all members kind of ended up -being excited and, and we had +being excited and- and we had 163 00:09:03,529 --> 00:09:11,700 @@ -865,7 +865,7 @@ Hacktoberfest was I sort 180 00:10:01,769 --> 00:10:08,039 -of first opportunity to start +of my first opportunity to start doing stuff with other people. 181 @@ -891,7 +891,7 @@ similar fashion to Dan 185 00:10:18,509 --> 00:10:27,600 May have gone a little overboard -with my, my piece of it, writing +with my- my piece of it, writing 186 00:10:24,059 --> 00:10:32,419 @@ -900,23 +900,23 @@ it- it felt really 187 00:10:28,649 --> 00:10:36,590 -good to kind of like, you know, +good to kind of like apply, you know, my, thoughts to try and 188 00:10:32,509 --> 00:10:43,184 -make something good for ppeople. +make something good for people. And I think it was just 189 00:10:37,455 --> 00:10:45,794 -really, really fun and +really- really fun and empowering and validating to 190 00:10:43,245 --> 00:10:50,445 see so many people say like this -was my first PR ever Right. +was my first PR ever, Right. 191 00:10:50,445 --> 00:10:52,784 @@ -970,7 +970,7 @@ Bekah, what about you? 201 00:11:19,424 --> 00:11:22,154 Bekah: Yeah, I think, you know, -it's, it all comes +it's- it all comes 202 00:11:22,154 --> 00:11:25,274 @@ -1024,7 +1024,7 @@ having people work on it- it 212 00:11:55,450 --> 00:11:59,840 -was, you know, a lot in working +was, you know, I learned a lot in working on my postpartum wellness app 213 @@ -1073,7 +1073,7 @@ that. 222 00:12:28,085 --> 00:12:30,485 -like we all just like really +like we all just grew like really close together 223 @@ -1087,12 +1087,12 @@ agree. 225 00:12:37,403 --> 00:12:44,013 -We, we talk a lot about. That +We- we talk a lot about. That the Hacktoberfest last 226 00:12:41,702 --> 00:12:47,673 -year was, was sort of where +year was- was sort of where Virtual Coffee became, you 227 @@ -1124,7 +1124,7 @@ sort of a mission or something. 233 00:12:57,212 --> 00:13:00,722 -I don't, I don't know, but, +I don't- I don't know, but, yeah, know. 234 @@ -1143,7 +1143,7 @@ sort of established the space 237 00:13:07,416 --> 00:13:16,235 -and, you know, we were, we were +and, you know, we were- we were having fun together and 238 @@ -1158,7 +1158,7 @@ that I feel like Hacktoberfest 240 00:13:21,395 --> 00:13:30,066 -was, when we sort of like the +was, when we sort of like saw the opportunity to do a lot 241 @@ -1355,7 +1355,7 @@ before and we have 280 00:15:17,870 --> 00:15:25,490 grown a ton since last year. -this year, it it's really +so this year, it it's really 281 00:15:22,549 --> 00:15:28,100 @@ -1369,7 +1369,7 @@ about what our 283 00:15:30,149 --> 00:15:31,289 -plans are heading into? +plans are heading into this ? 284 00:15:32,955 --> 00:15:38,125 @@ -1399,7 +1399,7 @@ maintainers, right? 289 00:15:46,455 --> 00:15:49,875 So Preptember is get, get your -repositories ready. +repositories ready for. 290 00:15:49,904 --> 00:15:55,710 @@ -1493,7 +1493,7 @@ the random bits of code, the 308 00:16:44,860 --> 00:16:49,539 -default, read me with, you know, +default, README with, you know, just a header and that's it. 309 @@ -1513,7 +1513,7 @@ want it to have something this 312 00:16:57,190 --> 00:17:03,610 -month for,our members who may +month for, our members who may you know, who aren't 313 @@ -1568,7 +1568,7 @@ like to, help improve 323 00:17:35,365 --> 00:17:40,704 -or, or everything like that. +or- or everything like that. every, almost every 324 @@ -1603,7 +1603,7 @@ install a package or something. 330 00:17:56,664 --> 00:18:01,519 -I follow the, read me. It +I follow the, README. It doesn't work and I. Okay. 331 @@ -1643,7 +1643,7 @@ not helpful either. 338 00:18:19,269 --> 00:18:22,000 -So that's, that's our other, +So that's- that's our other, we're doing a 339 @@ -1673,7 +1673,7 @@ maintainers. 344 00:18:42,025 --> 00:18:45,085 -it starts tomorrow, as of our +so that's Preptember it starts tomorrow, as of our recording, it 345 @@ -1727,7 +1727,7 @@ that you think 355 00:19:18,414 --> 00:19:22,315 -maintainers should be lookinf +maintainers should be looking for as they prepare their 356 @@ -1757,11 +1757,11 @@ that we know usually helped to, 361 00:19:41,765 --> 00:19:44,924 to just have like having the -good reading and like knowing +good README and like knowing 362 00:19:44,924 --> 00:19:48,105 -what makes a good read me, +what makes a good README, contributing, like telling 363 @@ -1776,7 +1776,7 @@ you as the maintainer, right. 365 00:19:54,914 --> 00:19:59,265 -Having a code of conduct. So +Having a Code of Conduct. So establishing very early 366 @@ -1872,7 +1872,7 @@ you notice it's been a 384 00:20:55,210 --> 00:21:00,970 couple of weeks or a couple of -days with no response, me +days with no response, shoot me 385 00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:03,190 @@ -1937,7 +1937,7 @@ maintainer is something they 397 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,289 can see and like make decisions -on. I need to fix this? +on. Do I need to fix this? 398 00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:46,315 @@ -2070,7 +2070,7 @@ how to work through 424 00:23:09,935 --> 00:23:13,885 -things, it over for a while. and +things, ot take it over for a while. and I think. 425 @@ -2091,7 +2091,7 @@ Like that's the investment that 428 00:23:22,996 --> 00:23:29,625 we put into, these repositories. -We, we make sure that +We- we make sure that 429 00:23:27,405 --> 00:23:32,476 @@ -2165,7 +2165,7 @@ contributors to 443 00:24:10,837 --> 00:24:14,647 -navigate, you know, different, +navigate, you know, different- different areas of repositories 444 @@ -2185,7 +2185,7 @@ some will get close, you 447 00:24:21,877 --> 00:24:28,928 -know, but, anyway, that that's +know, but, anyway, that that's like one of the other 448 @@ -2305,7 +2305,7 @@ it can be, you know, just 471 00:25:51,615 --> 00:25:58,275 -to we can do to kind of like get +tanything we can do to kind of like get through those layers of 472 @@ -2341,7 +2341,7 @@ projects. 478 00:26:16,276 --> 00:26:18,675 Dan: So you mentioned some -stuff, some, some events I +stuff, some- some events I 479 00:26:18,675 --> 00:26:20,355 @@ -2370,8 +2370,8 @@ and, it's just an open. 484 00:26:33,425 --> 00:26:35,855 -So what's called the open source -project walkthrough. +So what's called the Open Source +Project Walkthrough. 485 00:26:36,846 --> 00:26:40,056 @@ -2400,7 +2400,7 @@ pieces that happen? 490 00:26:51,066 --> 00:26:54,726 -Looks like from the maintainers +What it looks like from the maintainers perspective, 491 @@ -2465,8 +2465,8 @@ look at when we're, when 503 00:27:33,111 --> 00:27:35,300 -we're, we're talking, thinking -about creating an open +we're- we're talking, thinking +about when creating an open 504 00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:38,361 @@ -2510,7 +2510,7 @@ and open-source 512 00:28:00,931 --> 00:28:06,990 -contributions, hosted by Bekah +contributions, I think hosted by Bekah but I'm pretty sure 513 @@ -2559,7 +2559,7 @@ basis. 522 00:28:33,921 --> 00:28:36,290 -It's it's going to be much what +It's- it's going to be much what it says. 523 @@ -2589,7 +2589,7 @@ cover the required docs. 528 00:28:54,246 --> 00:28:57,695 -We'll, we'll get some helpful, +We'll- we'll get some helpful, get up features for making that 529 @@ -2856,7 +2856,7 @@ can kind of dive in. 582 00:31:49,445 --> 00:31:51,905 -And so that's why that's, that's +And so that's why that's- that's gonna be our process 583 @@ -2943,7 +2943,7 @@ year and got their first PRS. 600 00:32:37,711 --> 00:32:43,040 -And now they're like on, on +And now they're like leading on, on this. Open source project 601 @@ -3068,17 +3068,17 @@ that full circle of a 625 00:33:55,431 --> 00:34:08,201 year of monthly challenges and -then next month, we're just +after Hacktoberfest, we will be 626 00:34:02,540 --> 00:34:09,431 -going to know, the last couple -of months of having other +cause we have Preptember for September +then next month we're just going to totally dive into Hacktoberfest 627 00:34:09,431 --> 00:34:12,940 -people step up the game with -monthly challenge and- and +you having the last coupe months of having +people step up the game with monthly challenge and- and 628 00:34:12,940 --> 00:34:16,210 @@ -3167,7 +3167,7 @@ thing to work with to like 645 00:35:24,115 --> 00:35:28,865 -provide an experience for them. +provide an experience for other people. But it's also been a really 646 @@ -3453,12 +3453,12 @@ make my own choices. Yeah. 703 00:38:43,527 --> 00:38:47,467 -I I'll echo that. I mean, it's, +I- I'll echo that. I mean, it's, this 704 00:38:44,498 --> 00:38:52,117 -community is so great. And the, +community is so great. And the- the we've sort of 705 @@ -3469,7 +3469,7 @@ health, I think, 706 00:38:52,148 --> 00:38:57,907 from the beginning, you know, -without, without any, without +without- without any, without 707 00:38:55,717 --> 00:39:00,628 @@ -3636,7 +3636,7 @@ Who would think that. 740 00:40:38,963 --> 00:40:39,773 -Bekah: Waht? Why are you pulling +Bekah: What? Why are you pulling me into this? 741 @@ -3679,7 +3679,7 @@ watched it. 749 00:40:59,034 --> 00:40:59,815 -Bekah: you said, let it go. +Bekah: You said, let it go. 750 00:41:00,860 --> 00:41:04,530 @@ -3713,7 +3713,7 @@ wanted to, before we end 756 00:41:27,155 --> 00:41:33,000 this episode, I dunno, shout out -some, some different things +some- some different things 757 00:41:33,755 --> 00:41:37,594 @@ -3769,7 +3769,7 @@ yeah, it's really great. 768 00:42:03,646 --> 00:42:05,706 -It's, it's crazy that there's so +It's- it's crazy that there's so many people I've 769 @@ -3883,7 +3883,7 @@ come here? 792 00:43:07,762 --> 00:43:09,563 Kirk: I pretty much live in the -co workingroom. +co-working room. 793 00:43:09,668 --> 00:43:10,117 @@ -3924,7 +3924,7 @@ people in this sector. 801 00:43:20,603 --> 00:43:23,663 Kirk: I, yeah, but like from -the, from the slack side, +the, from the Slack side, 802 00:43:23,663 --> 00:43:25,432 @@ -4004,7 +4004,7 @@ the co-working room, jump in. 817 00:44:12,773 --> 00:44:14,962 Or, and then the coworking room -becomes like a little watch and +becomes like a little watch and 818 00:44:14,962 --> 00:44:17,151 @@ -4130,7 +4130,7 @@ you want to see it the 843 00:45:30,688 --> 00:45:34,197 -longest and August, but I, that +longest in August, but I, that made me want to look it up what 844 @@ -4706,12 +4706,12 @@ take a month off podcast 960 00:51:40,313 --> 00:51:44,378 -and we will be back a season. in +and we will be back a season four in October. 961 00:51:44,597 --> 00:51:46,217 -Kirk: Bye for me, definitely +Kirk: Bye for me, Definitely Bekah. 962 From 223a91fa7e1454c01cd4284721cff2b5627d30d6 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Chris Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 15:33:46 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 07/13] edits to season 3 epiisode 9 --- episodes/3_9.srt | 2050 +++++++++++++++++++++++----------------------- 1 file changed, 1046 insertions(+), 1004 deletions(-) diff --git a/episodes/3_9.srt b/episodes/3_9.srt index 09187ff..3229c41 100644 --- a/episodes/3_9.srt +++ b/episodes/3_9.srt @@ -73,12 +73,13 @@ Bekah, 16 00:00:47,025 --> 00:00:47,999 -Kirk: I am definatly here. [laughter] +Kirk: I am definatly here. +[laughter] 17 00:00:44,819 --> 00:00:54,198 -Dan: All the Bekahs are here. so -we have some exciting +Dan: All the Bekahs are here. +so we have some exciting 18 00:00:50,959 --> 00:00:58,774 @@ -96,4682 +97,4723 @@ a little bit about Hacktoberfest last year and what we have going 21 -00:01:01,353 --> 00:01:07,683 +00:01:01,353 --> 00:01:04,518 on this year, as well as just -wrap up the season of our podcast. +wrap up the season of our 22 +00:01:04,518 --> 00:01:07,683 +podcast. + +23 00:01:08,073 --> 00:01:10,894 We start every episode of the podcast like we start every -23 +24 00:01:10,894 --> 00:01:13,743 Virtual Coffee - we introduce ourselves with our name where -24 +25 00:01:13,743 --> 00:01:16,774 we're from, what we do and a random check-in question. -25 +26 00:01:17,224 --> 00:01:20,823 Today's question is if you had to teach one class on one thing -26 +27 00:01:20,823 --> 00:01:25,084 right now, what would you teach? We hope you enjoy this episode. -27 +28 00:01:33,115 --> 00:01:36,831 Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Hey. I'm Bekah, I'm a front -28 +29 00:01:34,370 --> 00:01:37,911 end developer from a small town in Ohio. -29 +30 00:01:38,421 --> 00:01:41,150 And if I had to teach one class right now, like my -30 +31 00:01:41,180 --> 00:01:43,521 initial go-to is like, well, I've taught English. -31 +32 00:01:43,581 --> 00:01:48,531 I could do that. but I- I still -32 +33 00:01:45,501 --> 00:01:49,281 don't want to, I'm still burnt out from that. -33 +34 00:01:49,611 --> 00:01:53,990 So I would probably, I don't know, like maybe a -34 +35 00:01:54,021 --> 00:02:01,251 kettlebell class or, a patients' rights course for -35 +36 00:02:01,251 --> 00:02:03,831 navigating the medical system. You know, -36 +37 00:02:04,805 --> 00:02:06,245 Dan: So like, that's going to be like, a, like a -37 +38 00:02:06,245 --> 00:02:07,296 four year degree for that. -38 +39 00:02:08,850 --> 00:02:08,911 Kirk: Yeah. -39 +40 00:02:10,311 --> 00:02:10,941 Bekah: That's what you get. -40 +41 00:02:11,445 --> 00:02:16,545 Dan: Yeah. Fair enough. hi, I'm Dan I'm a front-end -41 +42 00:02:13,186 --> 00:02:19,485 developer from Cleveland, Ohio, and a maintainer -42 +43 00:02:16,605 --> 00:02:22,786 here at Virtual Coffee. And, yeah, if I had -43 +44 00:02:19,966 --> 00:02:25,395 to teach a class on one thing, I mean, I don't know. -44 +45 00:02:25,395 --> 00:02:27,735 There's- there's some computer stuff I could do, but I think -45 +46 00:02:27,735 --> 00:02:30,496 starting a fire would be my one. Did we do this before? -46 +47 00:02:30,825 --> 00:02:31,725 Now that I said that. -47 +48 00:02:32,270 --> 00:02:33,621 Bekah: Yeah. Now that you said that that was -48 +49 00:02:33,621 --> 00:02:34,251 familiar. -49 +50 00:02:35,256 --> 00:02:36,515 Dan: Oh, maybe we did it in a coffee. -50 +51 00:02:36,545 --> 00:02:40,506 I hope we didn't do it in a podcast. All right. -51 +52 00:02:40,506 --> 00:02:44,195 Well, I'm sticking with it. you know, if we are -52 +53 00:02:41,436 --> 00:02:48,096 repeating questions in the podcast, please write in -53 +54 00:02:44,195 --> 00:02:51,876 and blame, real Bekah who you heard at the top -54 +55 00:02:48,216 --> 00:02:53,286 of the episode, or fake Bekah just don't blame Dan. -55 +56 00:02:53,346 --> 00:02:58,475 Because, well, you know, I'm blameless, I'm blameless -56 +57 00:02:59,406 --> 00:03:00,725 in pretty much all situations. -57 +58 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:01,390 Bekah: That is false. -58 +59 00:03:01,992 --> 00:03:05,823 Kirk: All right. This is definitely Bekah. -59 +60 00:03:06,043 --> 00:03:12,013 Although sometimes you can call me Kirk and, class. -60 +61 00:03:12,043 --> 00:03:18,872 I would teach you 100%. It would be Sudoku I would -61 +62 00:03:14,923 --> 00:03:21,872 teach you all about Sudoku, regular sort of who, -62 +63 00:03:18,992 --> 00:03:23,552 the different types, the different cool techniques. -63 +64 00:03:23,973 --> 00:03:26,013 That's a joke. They're all cool techniques. -64 +65 00:03:27,423 --> 00:03:29,582 yeah, that would, that would totally be my thing. -65 +66 00:03:29,582 --> 00:03:35,552 And it would be lots of fun. And, if we did this -66 -00:03:31,622 --> 00:03:36,812 +67 +00:03:31,622 --> 00:03:34,217 question before, I didn't do -this question before, so. it's fine. +this question before, so. it's -67 +68 +00:03:34,217 --> 00:03:36,812 +fine. + +69 00:03:37,635 --> 00:03:37,786 -Bekah: I would go to your Sudoku class. +Bekah: I would go to your Sudoku +class. -68 +70 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:44,381 Dan: Fair enough. So the same. Do you have a, I do have my -69 +71 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:46,031 phone and I've never really like found, an app. that I love. -70 +72 00:03:48,311 --> 00:03:49,901 Kirk: I can recommend some good apps. -71 +73 00:03:50,610 --> 00:03:50,881 Dan: Okay. -72 +74 00:03:50,950 --> 00:03:52,700 Kirk: Well, I must clear, I have four Sudoku apps on -73 +75 00:03:52,700 --> 00:03:55,911 my phone, but each one is a different type of -74 +76 00:03:54,281 --> 00:03:55,911 Sudoku, so it's not weird. -75 +77 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,991 Dan: Hmm. Okay. Well, what I like, what's the, -76 +78 00:03:57,411 --> 00:04:01,700 what's your go-to app for the like class, like just classic -77 +79 00:04:01,945 --> 00:04:07,346 Kirk: Okay. I have one it's all bespoke -78 +80 00:04:02,186 --> 00:04:11,695 Sudoku, none of that and machine generated, you -79 +81 00:04:07,346 --> 00:04:15,145 know, printed press stuff, real artisan Sudokus, I'm -80 +82 00:04:11,776 --> 00:04:17,716 not even making that up, so, -81 +83 00:04:18,196 --> 00:04:19,125 Dan: Okay. Tell us what it's called. -82 +84 00:04:19,966 --> 00:04:27,050 Kirk: oh, I just called it WIS. It's called it's called -83 +85 00:04:24,591 --> 00:04:32,000 classic Sudoku. There's a YouTube channel called -84 +86 00:04:28,730 --> 00:04:38,661 Cracking The Cryptic where you can watch two, English -85 +87 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:40,071 puzzle masters solve Sudoku is and a variety of other puzzles. -86 +88 00:04:40,071 --> 00:04:43,701 And it's just the most lovely thing in the world to watch -87 +89 00:04:43,701 --> 00:04:46,761 a middle age British men scoff, "What a beautiful number." -88 +90 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,685 So, They produce their own app and they source it -89 +91 00:04:50,685 --> 00:04:53,086 from hustlers that we call people who make puzzles, -90 +92 00:04:53,086 --> 00:04:57,346 puzzlers in the community. And also though, cause we're -91 +93 00:04:54,586 --> 00:04:58,605 really good an app, like helps you if you need to. -92 +94 00:04:58,605 --> 00:05:00,286 And it gives you like smart hints, not just -93 +95 00:05:00,286 --> 00:05:03,315 like random hints. It's great. It's a good app. Classic Sudoku -94 +96 00:05:03,430 --> 00:05:04,031 Dan: So, -95 +97 00:05:04,125 --> 00:05:04,456 Kirk: by Cracking The Cryptic -96 +98 00:05:05,591 --> 00:05:11,110 Dan: so a puzzler is someone who creates the puzzles. Okay. -97 +99 00:05:11,110 --> 00:05:14,511 So what's what do you call somebody who solves puzzle? -98 +100 00:05:14,511 --> 00:05:14,940 Kirk: A Solver -99 +101 00:05:17,646 --> 00:05:18,305 Bekah: That was boring. -100 +102 00:05:19,091 --> 00:05:19,620 Dan: Most boring. -101 +103 00:05:20,586 --> 00:05:21,545 -Kirk: It's told you about custom Sudoku +Kirk: It's told you about custom +Sudoku -102 +104 00:05:21,870 --> 00:05:25,471 Dan: I feel like, I feel like the Sudoku community needs to, -103 +105 00:05:25,471 --> 00:05:30,060 it needs to up their game, you know, for making a silly, well, -104 -00:05:30,060 --> 00:05:33,120 -not silly, but a pretentious names -for themselves, you know, it's +106 +00:05:30,060 --> 00:05:31,590 +not silly, but a pretentious +names for themselves, you know, -105 +107 +00:05:31,590 --> 00:05:33,120 +it's + +108 00:05:33,750 --> 00:05:35,071 just not, it's just not there. -106 -00:05:35,146 --> 00:05:40,446 -Kirk: we're already doing Sudokus. We're trying to -really hard to not upset everyone around us. +109 +00:05:35,146 --> 00:05:37,796 +Kirk: we're already doing +Sudokus. We're trying to really -107 +110 +00:05:37,796 --> 00:05:40,446 +hard to not upset everyone +around us. + +111 00:05:41,475 --> 00:05:45,295 Bekah: well, speaking of puzzles and -108 +112 00:05:41,805 --> 00:05:46,545 games, Hacktoberfest sure seems like that too. -109 +113 00:05:48,576 --> 00:05:52,985 Except we have maintainers and contributors. See it's there. -110 +114 00:05:53,076 --> 00:05:56,915 That was a really good segue and everybody should -111 +115 00:05:54,995 --> 00:06:02,076 acknowledge that. So last year we did -112 +116 00:05:58,985 --> 00:06:06,185 Hacktoberfest for the first time, and that's kind of what -113 +117 00:06:02,076 --> 00:06:11,930 stands out in my mind as- as the, When, What, When we -114 +118 00:06:06,216 --> 00:06:15,800 really kind of came into phase two, a Virtual Coffee, when -115 +119 00:06:11,930 --> 00:06:19,880 we became something that wasn't just a pandemic group of people, -116 +120 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:22,610 what is a group of developers at all stages of the journey -117 +121 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:27,321 that would be around for awhile. And so, you know, -118 +122 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:29,420 what- what we did last year, we had an issue. -119 +123 00:06:29,420 --> 00:06:33,500 We helped, members get their first contribution -120 +124 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:36,380 for Hacktoberfest, which HacktoberFest. -121 +125 00:06:37,430 --> 00:06:42,920 Is a month long focus on open source contributions that -122 +126 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:48,471 sponsored by Digital Ocean. And, once you sign up, I -123 +127 00:06:45,290 --> 00:06:52,490 think you have to have four pull requests and then you can get a -124 +128 00:06:48,471 --> 00:06:55,670 t-shirt and stickers, but it's really fun and kind of a great -125 +129 00:06:52,490 --> 00:06:57,050 way to build community and to learn more about each other. -126 +130 00:06:57,500 --> 00:06:59,690 I know from my perspective, I mean, I learned about. -127 +131 00:07:00,451 --> 00:07:05,630 Organizing this. working with mentors contributors -128 +132 00:07:05,630 --> 00:07:08,370 And- and it was my first time as a maintainer as well. -129 +133 00:07:08,370 --> 00:07:11,911 So, you know, there were so many lessons that- -130 +134 00:07:11,971 --> 00:07:18,841 that we learned last year. Maybe if we just talk about like -131 +135 00:07:13,860 --> 00:07:23,550 our favorite parts of year, and then we can move into what we're -132 +136 00:07:18,841 --> 00:07:25,230 taking from that into this year, Which I'm really excited. -133 +137 00:07:26,454 --> 00:07:33,805 Dan: Yeah. yes. So favorite parts from last -134 +138 00:07:28,134 --> 00:07:38,694 year, I enjoyed, you know, last year we decided -135 +139 00:07:33,805 --> 00:07:41,785 to use the website as one of our repos, which meant -136 +140 00:07:38,694 --> 00:07:45,774 we needed to make a website. So, so we did that -137 +141 00:07:42,415 --> 00:07:46,285 pretty quickly and, -138 +142 00:07:46,694 --> 00:07:47,714 Bekah: By we, you mean you. -139 +143 00:07:47,995 --> 00:07:53,689 Dan: okay. The, the roy- the Royal we, -140 +144 00:07:48,535 --> 00:07:58,670 And, One of the things that we pulled together was, -141 +145 00:07:53,689 --> 00:08:01,759 Making it an- an- an issue for having people add -142 +146 00:07:58,670 --> 00:08:04,310 themselves to the, to their members directory, via code. -143 +147 00:08:04,759 --> 00:08:09,199 And we created an issue and, you know, created, you -144 +148 00:08:09,199 --> 00:08:11,029 know, set up some guidelines and stuff like that. -145 +149 00:08:11,029 --> 00:08:13,399 And then had a kickoff meeting altogether where- where we -146 +150 00:08:13,399 --> 00:08:16,790 could get everybody going on, Submitting a pull request. -147 +151 00:08:17,540 --> 00:08:20,180 In a Zoom meeting and that was a lot of fun. -148 +152 00:08:21,319 --> 00:08:25,370 It was fun. We, we got, I think -149 +153 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:27,350 everybody got it done. We had, shout out to Marie. -150 +154 00:08:27,350 --> 00:08:30,199 I'm pretty sure who rescued me at one point because somebody -151 +155 00:08:30,199 --> 00:08:33,919 was having problem with, git on the command line and I don't -152 +156 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:39,210 use git on the command don't, and so I didn't know how to, -153 +157 00:08:39,210 --> 00:08:42,440 I'm a guy that I was like, I- I mean, I- I made sure to before -154 +158 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,830 the event, practice, you know, the very simple things. -155 +159 00:08:46,669 --> 00:08:49,190 This was, we ran into something that was, wasn't simple on. -156 +160 00:08:49,220 --> 00:08:50,870 I had no idea. Marie swooped -157 +161 00:08:50,955 --> 00:08:51,014 Kirk: Yeah. -158 +162 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,250 Dan: with her superhero Cape and, rescued my rescued me. -159 +163 00:08:55,580 --> 00:08:56,840 So shout out to Marie for that. -160 +164 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,620 But, it was a lot of fun. Just the event the whole -161 +165 00:08:58,159 --> 00:09:03,529 month was like that, the whole month, it was just, -162 +166 00:09:00,620 --> 00:09:06,289 all members kind of ended up being excited and- and we had -163 +167 00:09:03,529 --> 00:09:11,700 a, it was fun to have a goal, you know, to everybody could -164 +168 00:09:06,409 --> 00:09:13,230 celebrate, you know, I dunno, it was fun, but yeah, that, -165 +169 00:09:11,700 --> 00:09:14,490 that first meeting is the thing that pops into my mind. -166 +170 00:09:14,580 --> 00:09:16,429 When I think of Virtual Coffee last year and -167 +171 00:09:16,429 --> 00:09:22,620 Hacktoberfest, what about you? Oh, I was trying to think -168 +172 00:09:20,070 --> 00:09:22,620 of a Keka that's awful. -169 +173 00:09:23,279 --> 00:09:25,230 Kirk: You can just, you can just go Kirk. -170 +174 00:09:27,004 --> 00:09:27,125 Bekah: Yeah. -171 +175 00:09:27,629 --> 00:09:32,220 Kirk: Yeah, last- last Hacktoberfest, I mean, it -172 +176 00:09:32,220 --> 00:09:37,399 was a lot of firsts for me. I- I like, I think a lot -173 +177 00:09:34,379 --> 00:09:40,409 of people don't know this. My very first like open -174 +178 00:09:37,409 --> 00:09:42,470 source pull requests was just a couple months before. -175 +179 00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:47,370 On the self-defined project run by Tatyana Mack, -176 +180 00:09:47,399 --> 00:09:55,529 who was super amazing. But, I feel like I had -177 +181 00:09:48,929 --> 00:09:58,710 spent a long time not doing like anything coding or -178 +182 00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:00,960 tech related on the side. Just like, especially when -179 +183 00:09:58,799 --> 00:10:06,179 I've been working by myself. and Hacktoberfest was I sort -180 +184 00:10:01,769 --> 00:10:08,039 of my first opportunity to start doing stuff with other people. -181 +185 00:10:08,100 --> 00:10:12,000 I was also my first time. hosting an open -182 +186 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,669 source project. My first time, like teaching -183 +187 00:10:12,029 --> 00:10:17,039 other people, like formally like Elm and getting into -184 +188 00:10:14,669 --> 00:10:23,700 functional programming. I, in a similar fashion to Dan -185 +189 00:10:18,509 --> 00:10:27,600 May have gone a little overboard with my- my piece of it, writing -186 +190 00:10:24,059 --> 00:10:32,419 way too much documentation. but it- it felt really -187 +191 00:10:28,649 --> 00:10:36,590 -good to kind of like apply, you know, -my, thoughts to try and +good to kind of like apply, you +know, my, thoughts to try and -188 +192 00:10:32,509 --> 00:10:43,184 make something good for people. And I think it was just -189 +193 00:10:37,455 --> 00:10:45,794 really- really fun and empowering and validating to -190 +194 00:10:43,245 --> 00:10:50,445 see so many people say like this was my first PR ever, Right. -191 +195 00:10:50,445 --> 00:10:52,784 And like the fact that we can get that for some people -192 +196 00:10:52,784 --> 00:10:54,674 and they could have a good experience with it and not a -193 +197 00:10:54,674 --> 00:10:58,304 painful experience with it. That felt super good. -194 +198 00:10:58,725 --> 00:11:01,394 And I'm super pumped for doing that again. -195 +199 00:11:01,794 --> 00:11:05,654 Dan: Yeah, I- I learned that, Kirk, I mean, yeah, -196 +200 00:11:05,684 --> 00:11:08,414 Kirk- Kirk did a ton of work getting our, open-source -197 +201 00:11:08,414 --> 00:11:11,235 stuff set up and, putting some guidelines in place. -198 +202 00:11:11,235 --> 00:11:13,904 And I don't know, I learned a lot, we're working -199 +203 00:11:13,904 --> 00:11:16,365 with Kirk on that too. that was really cool. -200 +204 00:11:17,115 --> 00:11:18,195 Bekah, what about you? -201 +205 00:11:19,424 --> 00:11:22,154 Bekah: Yeah, I think, you know, it's- it all comes -202 +206 00:11:22,154 --> 00:11:25,274 down to the people, right? It was such a big -203 +207 00:11:23,205 --> 00:11:31,024 learning experience. I feel like. I learned so much in the -204 +208 00:11:26,434 --> 00:11:34,924 month prep and the month of doing it, that it- it -205 +209 00:11:31,024 --> 00:11:36,125 was like an intense amount of learning that happened. -206 +210 00:11:36,125 --> 00:11:37,894 I was so exhausted afterwards, but -207 +211 00:11:38,284 --> 00:11:41,404 it was so great to be able to work with other people -208 +212 00:11:41,404 --> 00:11:43,774 and kind of learn about the deliberate process -209 +213 00:11:43,774 --> 00:11:47,615 that goes into documenting things and creating issues. -210 +214 00:11:47,615 --> 00:11:50,095 And the difference between working on your. -211 +215 00:11:50,779 --> 00:11:55,009 Own open source project and then having people work on it- it -212 -00:11:55,450 --> 00:11:59,840 -was, you know, I learned a lot in working -on my postpartum wellness app +216 +00:11:55,450 --> 00:11:57,645 +was, you know, I learned a lot +in working on my postpartum -213 +217 +00:11:57,645 --> 00:11:59,840 +wellness app + +218 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,019 with members of the community and working through issues and -214 +219 00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:05,150 Learning how to write issues, but then also, know, pairing up -215 +220 00:12:05,150 --> 00:12:06,710 with -216 +221 00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:10,309 them and talking through things and hearing their stories and -217 +222 00:12:10,309 --> 00:12:14,870 their connection to, know, both the code, but also the, -218 +223 00:12:14,899 --> 00:12:19,009 topic that we were working on. It just became -219 +224 00:12:16,490 --> 00:12:22,325 something that couldn't. I would have never imagined -220 +225 00:12:19,715 --> 00:12:24,335 that it would be that special and meaningful to me. -221 +226 00:12:24,335 --> 00:12:27,424 So, you know, I really just love that. -222 +227 00:12:28,085 --> 00:12:30,485 -like we all just grew like really -close together +like we all just grew like +really close together -223 +228 00:12:30,514 --> 00:12:32,225 in that experience. -224 +229 00:12:32,692 --> 00:12:36,562 Dan: Yeah, totally. I mean, I agree. -225 +230 00:12:37,403 --> 00:12:44,013 We- we talk a lot about. That the Hacktoberfest last -226 +231 00:12:41,702 --> 00:12:47,673 year was- was sort of where Virtual Coffee became, you -227 +232 00:12:44,013 --> 00:12:50,822 know, more of a, I dunno, I dunno what, the more of a -228 +233 00:12:49,052 --> 00:12:51,302 thing, you know what I mean? -229 +234 00:12:52,118 --> 00:12:52,298 Bekah: Like solidified that's not the right word -230 +235 00:12:52,503 --> 00:12:53,133 Dan: than just, -231 +236 00:12:53,238 --> 00:12:53,307 Bekah: know. -232 +237 00:12:53,493 --> 00:12:57,212 Dan: yeah, solidified I dunno, sort of a mission or something. -233 +238 00:12:57,212 --> 00:13:00,722 I don't- I don't know, but, yeah, know. -234 +239 00:13:00,732 --> 00:13:01,322 It was a lot of fun. -235 +240 00:13:02,832 --> 00:13:07,416 Kirk: Yeah. I think before, virtual Coffee -236 +241 00:13:03,163 --> 00:13:12,485 was, you know, we, we definitely sort of established the space -237 +242 00:13:07,416 --> 00:13:16,235 and, you know, we were- we were having fun together and -238 +243 00:13:12,485 --> 00:13:20,436 we were definitely like forming those like good and healthy -239 +244 00:13:16,235 --> 00:13:24,816 connections and relationships that I feel like Hacktoberfest -240 +245 00:13:21,395 --> 00:13:30,066 -was, when we sort of like saw the -opportunity to do a lot +was, when we sort of like saw +the opportunity to do a lot -241 +246 00:13:25,596 --> 00:13:30,725 of good in the tech space. Like -242 +247 00:13:30,770 --> 00:13:30,831 Bekah: Yeah. -243 +248 00:13:31,296 --> 00:13:33,456 Kirk: Realizing some of the big gaps And then like, you -244 +249 00:13:33,456 --> 00:13:36,245 know, also like feeling empowered to change them. Right. -245 +250 00:13:36,245 --> 00:13:38,975 Because if all started with that question of, we all want -246 +251 00:13:38,975 --> 00:13:40,895 to do something for open source, we all have this feeling like, -247 +252 00:13:40,895 --> 00:13:43,100 why does that ever feel good? No. Why do people have so many, -248 +253 00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:45,305 so. -249 +254 00:13:45,306 --> 00:13:47,615 much trouble with this? Why other people find -250 +255 00:13:46,025 --> 00:13:49,145 it so intimidating? we tried to solve it. -251 +256 00:13:49,176 --> 00:13:51,816 And, you know, once we did that, we sort of get on a -252 +257 00:13:51,816 --> 00:13:54,285 roll with the next month and the month after that -253 +258 00:13:54,285 --> 00:14:02,166 of, let's keep trying to. Like do these things verses just -254 +259 00:13:56,946 --> 00:14:03,186 like being together or both at the same time in that. -255 +260 00:14:03,620 --> 00:14:06,379 Bekah: Yeah. There's so many people -256 +261 00:14:03,769 --> 00:14:07,370 that suggest getting into open source. -257 +262 00:14:07,899 --> 00:14:11,080 If you're new or you're getting into the industry, -258 +263 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,279 and I've always found that that's not necessarily the -259 +264 00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:19,929 best advice because open source projects are open to -260 +265 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,539 new and entry-level people, some of them are welcoming -261 +266 00:14:22,539 --> 00:14:26,529 and some of them aren't. And so what ends up happening -262 +267 00:14:23,679 --> 00:14:29,929 is it can be a really isolating experience and -263 +268 00:14:26,620 --> 00:14:32,664 one that doesn't leave you. Well, with, a good taste in -264 +269 00:14:30,445 --> 00:14:34,764 your mouth, like, oh yeah. I want to continue to be -265 +270 00:14:32,664 --> 00:14:37,014 part of this community. because there can -266 +271 00:14:35,154 --> 00:14:38,274 be some really bad experiences out there. -267 +272 00:14:38,605 --> 00:14:40,554 And I think, you know, that really. -268 +273 00:14:41,269 --> 00:14:44,899 Stands out to me, as everybody talked about -269 +274 00:14:45,049 --> 00:14:48,620 how great it was to be doing this thing together. -270 +275 00:14:48,649 --> 00:14:51,320 People who had been in tech for years, who had not done it -271 +276 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,539 before doing it for the first time, because it was part of a -272 +277 00:14:53,539 --> 00:14:55,758 community -273 +278 00:14:55,789 --> 00:15:00,500 and it was a sense of belonging. And there is a greater -274 +279 00:14:58,519 --> 00:15:03,169 purpose when you're doing it with other people that -275 +280 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:06,500 you trust around you. it, you know, it allows -276 +281 00:15:03,769 --> 00:15:10,399 you to grow and new ways. and so I think, you -277 +282 00:15:07,460 --> 00:15:13,759 know, bringing that into what we're doing this year makes -278 +283 00:15:10,399 --> 00:15:17,870 it even more exciting and more purposeful because we -279 +284 00:15:13,759 --> 00:15:22,039 know that this has happened once before and we have -280 +285 00:15:17,870 --> 00:15:25,490 -grown a ton since last year. -so this year, it it's really +grown a ton since last year. so +this year, it it's really -281 +286 00:15:22,549 --> 00:15:28,100 exciting to kind of build off of what we've done. -282 +287 00:15:28,190 --> 00:15:30,149 Dan, do you want to kind of talk about what our -283 +288 00:15:30,149 --> 00:15:31,289 plans are heading into this ? -284 +289 00:15:32,955 --> 00:15:38,125 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. So Digital Ocean, you know, -285 +290 00:15:34,034 --> 00:15:40,575 has been running Hacktoberfest and they, so they coined -286 +291 00:15:38,144 --> 00:15:41,924 the term Preptember, right. for September. -287 +292 00:15:41,924 --> 00:15:44,865 And the idea there for in Digital Ocean's mind -288 +293 00:15:44,865 --> 00:15:46,455 is Preptember is for maintainers, right? -289 +294 00:15:46,455 --> 00:15:49,875 So Preptember is get, get your repositories ready for. -290 +295 00:15:49,904 --> 00:15:55,710 People to contribute. Right. And they have a lot of, -291 +296 00:15:53,669 --> 00:16:00,360 they have a lot of good, resources out there for things -292 +297 00:15:55,769 --> 00:16:01,980 like, you know, creating issues and adding, contributing -293 +298 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,259 guides, stuff like that. And so that was, you -294 +299 00:16:02,460 --> 00:16:06,419 know, we're, we're, we're going to also piggyback -295 +300 00:16:04,259 --> 00:16:09,990 on that a little bit. We want to help maintainers, -296 +301 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:13,200 Get things ready. We- we, I feel like we have -297 +302 00:16:09,990 --> 00:16:16,470 done a pretty good job on, in our own internal stuff -298 +303 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:19,230 of adding a lot of the community health things that -299 +304 00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:21,370 you want to see a lot of the. Some of the organizational -300 +305 00:16:19,870 --> 00:16:21,970 stuff, things that we want to see. -301 +306 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,289 And so we can use that, some of that as a guide and, -302 +307 00:16:26,830 --> 00:16:30,460 Provide some help for both, existing maintainers -303 +308 00:16:30,460 --> 00:16:33,039 that want to sort of just make sure they're checking all the -304 +309 00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:36,580 boxes and, anybody who wants to create a new open -305 +310 00:16:36,580 --> 00:16:41,860 source project to figure out. You know what things to do, -306 +311 00:16:39,789 --> 00:16:44,169 what things to hit, when, when you're creating a project -307 +312 00:16:41,860 --> 00:16:47,950 so that you don't end up with the random bits of code, the -308 +313 00:16:44,860 --> 00:16:49,539 default, README with, you know, just a header and that's it. -309 +314 00:16:49,539 --> 00:16:51,669 Right. so someone, somebody who comes to contribute, -310 +315 00:16:52,029 --> 00:16:57,190 They can help. And then the, for us, for -311 +316 00:16:53,470 --> 00:17:00,639 Virtual Coffee, we will also want it to have something this -312 +317 00:16:57,190 --> 00:17:03,610 month for, our members who may you know, who aren't -313 +318 00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:07,525 maintainers of open-source projects and, The other -314 +319 00:17:03,610 --> 00:17:11,065 thing we thought about was creating a, I don't know, a -315 +320 00:17:08,125 --> 00:17:14,035 challenge, you know, using our mental challenge set -316 +321 00:17:11,065 --> 00:17:16,404 up and, helping people learn how to create good -317 +322 00:17:14,125 --> 00:17:19,825 issues for repositories, because I personally feel -318 +323 00:17:16,404 --> 00:17:21,805 like that is one of the, like, that is actually one of the -319 +324 00:17:19,884 --> 00:17:24,565 strongest things you can do to contribute, especially to -320 +325 00:17:21,835 --> 00:17:27,714 big projects, even the little projects, writing an issue. -321 +326 00:17:27,775 --> 00:17:31,525 You know, I don't know if you find something. -322 +327 00:17:32,394 --> 00:17:35,365 It he's either wrong or you'd like to, help improve -323 +328 00:17:35,365 --> 00:17:40,704 or- or everything like that. every, almost every -324 +329 00:17:37,434 --> 00:17:42,414 maintainer will prefer you to create an issue first. Right. -325 +330 00:17:42,474 --> 00:17:46,704 And that way the maintainers can process them and, -326 +331 00:17:46,704 --> 00:17:50,605 you know, check and see. but also, you know, if -327 +332 00:17:48,444 --> 00:17:52,375 you see something that's wrong, lots of times. Okay. -328 +333 00:17:52,375 --> 00:17:53,575 So does it happen personally? Right? -329 +334 00:17:53,605 --> 00:17:56,005 I have, I've been trying to install a package or something. -330 +335 00:17:56,664 --> 00:18:01,519 -I follow the, README. It -doesn't work and I. Okay. +I follow the, README. It doesn't +work and I. Okay. -331 +336 00:18:01,519 --> 00:18:03,309 I mean, you know, whatever, I'm busy, I'm pressed -332 +337 00:18:03,309 --> 00:18:06,750 for time or whatever. And, you know, I just -333 +338 00:18:04,269 --> 00:18:10,390 like, oh, this thing is broken. And so I just move on, you -334 +339 00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:12,190 know, and, a possibly better approach would -335 +340 00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:15,640 be to write an issue. Right. But you can't just say -336 +341 00:18:12,970 --> 00:18:17,829 this is broken and move on. Cause that's just not as -337 +342 00:18:15,700 --> 00:18:18,640 helpful, you know, like that's not helpful either. -338 +343 00:18:19,269 --> 00:18:22,000 So that's- that's our other, we're doing a -339 +344 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,950 two-pronged Preptember, right? Right. Some issues for some -340 +345 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:31,644 repositories and, you know how to do it well, How to, -341 +346 00:18:26,980 --> 00:18:34,825 you know, both, set up and create or create, -342 +347 00:18:31,694 --> 00:18:37,884 your open source project with, with a good, you know, with a -343 +348 00:18:34,914 --> 00:18:38,394 good setup of support, for maintainers. -344 -00:18:42,025 --> 00:18:45,085 -so that's Preptember it starts tomorrow, as of our -recording, it +349 +00:18:42,025 --> 00:18:43,555 +so that's Preptember it starts +tomorrow, as of our recording, -345 +350 +00:18:43,555 --> 00:18:45,085 +it + +351 00:18:45,085 --> 00:18:48,115 starts September 1st. So, which will probably be -346 +352 00:18:45,954 --> 00:18:48,115 when this comes out, actually. -347 +353 00:18:50,339 --> 00:18:53,519 Bekah: Yeah. And, you know, I think contributors -348 +354 00:18:53,519 --> 00:18:57,359 write issues also does a really good job of kind of showing. -349 +355 00:18:58,255 --> 00:19:01,974 What it takes to be a maintainer or what's a useful -350 +356 00:19:01,974 --> 00:19:06,744 way to approach a problem. so, and I think it helps -351 +357 00:19:04,525 --> 00:19:08,184 to create those clear paths of communication. -352 +358 00:19:09,025 --> 00:19:12,355 now, Kirk, I know that you did a lot with maintainers last year. -353 +359 00:19:12,355 --> 00:19:14,845 You're working on a checklist for maintainers this year. -354 +360 00:19:15,174 --> 00:19:17,845 What are some of the big things that you think -355 +361 00:19:18,414 --> 00:19:22,315 maintainers should be looking for as they prepare their -356 +362 00:19:22,315 --> 00:19:24,015 repositories for Hacktoberfest? -357 +363 00:19:25,829 --> 00:19:30,240 Kirk: There's part of me wants to say -358 +364 00:19:30,250 --> 00:19:33,900 there's quite a bit. And then another part of -359 +365 00:19:31,289 --> 00:19:35,609 me wants to say it's like less than people think. -360 +366 00:19:36,579 --> 00:19:41,714 There are some basic like files that we know usually helped to, -361 +367 00:19:41,765 --> 00:19:44,924 to just have like having the good README and like knowing -362 +368 00:19:44,924 --> 00:19:48,105 what makes a good README, contributing, like telling -363 +369 00:19:48,105 --> 00:19:51,075 people, Hey, here's the way you contribute to this code -364 +370 00:19:51,075 --> 00:19:54,585 base in the way that works for you as the maintainer, right. -365 +371 00:19:54,914 --> 00:19:59,265 Having a Code of Conduct. So establishing very early -366 +372 00:19:56,174 --> 00:20:02,654 on the types of behaviors you expect while interacting with -367 +373 00:19:59,265 --> 00:20:03,795 the code base and interacting with other people contributing. -368 +374 00:20:04,424 --> 00:20:08,244 As you said, It's all about communication. -369 +375 00:20:09,295 --> 00:20:15,414 And I think a lot of times maintainers it's like, we sort -370 +376 00:20:15,414 --> 00:20:18,055 of think of open source in this very transactional way. -371 +377 00:20:18,055 --> 00:20:20,454 Like I have code base you submit to code base. -372 +378 00:20:20,664 --> 00:20:24,414 I take something, you know, it's- it's- it's a team, right? -373 +379 00:20:24,414 --> 00:20:26,484 It's- it's an ad hoc team. It's a distributed team. -374 +380 00:20:26,515 --> 00:20:28,974 But while that person is trying to work with your code, they're -375 +381 00:20:28,974 --> 00:20:31,974 kind of like your teammate. So in the same way you would. -376 +382 00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:35,589 Keep a teammate- teammate aware of like, what's going on. -377 +383 00:20:35,589 --> 00:20:37,720 You kind of do the same thing with, with contributors. -378 +384 00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:40,720 So I usually encourage maintainers, like, Hey, think -379 +385 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,059 about the way you want to interact with this code base. -380 +386 00:20:43,450 --> 00:20:46,299 And just like a lot of it's just like giving folks a heads up. -381 +387 00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:52,210 I work on this, on the weekends. So if you submit a pull request, -382 +388 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:55,150 you know, expect a review by the weekend, or like, -383 +389 00:20:52,210 --> 00:20:57,700 Hey, sometimes I slip up. So if you notice it's been a -384 +390 00:20:55,210 --> 00:21:00,970 couple of weeks or a couple of days with no response, shoot me -385 +391 00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:03,190 a message on the appropriate channel where you wish -386 +392 00:21:00,970 --> 00:21:04,930 to receive messages about your open source code base. -387 +393 00:21:05,690 --> 00:21:07,660 So if there are a lot of things like that, but I don't feel -388 +394 00:21:07,660 --> 00:21:13,150 like we talk about a lot. We talked about making the -389 +395 00:21:09,849 --> 00:21:14,880 issue or making the PR, I think those subtleties. -390 +396 00:21:15,910 --> 00:21:19,690 As a maintainer find the way you want to be interacted -391 +397 00:21:19,690 --> 00:21:22,869 with and make that super clear for people, -392 +398 00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:27,640 that can be super helpful. then for your contributors, -393 +399 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:30,250 then they don't have that burden of trying to decide if they're -394 +400 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:32,380 bothering you or frustrating. And that goes back to -395 +401 00:21:30,730 --> 00:21:33,309 what Dan said about like what's a good issue. -396 +402 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,240 You know, a good issue for a maintainer is something they -397 +403 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,289 can see and like make decisions on. Do I need to fix this? -398 +404 00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:46,315 Can I let this person fix it? is this a big problem that -399 +405 00:21:43,525 --> 00:21:48,325 we need to pair up more on? Can we break this -400 +406 00:21:46,585 --> 00:21:52,615 into smaller chunks? so, you know, it's- it's -401 +407 00:21:49,285 --> 00:21:54,025 about like building a healthy working relationship. -402 +408 00:21:54,355 --> 00:21:56,994 And a lot of that is people being open, honest with -403 +409 00:21:56,994 --> 00:21:59,214 like where they're at and what they can accomplish. -404 +410 00:21:59,830 --> 00:22:03,530 Bekah: I really love that idea of this is your team -405 +411 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,641 that you're working with. And so if you're thinking -406 +412 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:10,611 of, okay, now you have all of these brand new -407 +413 00:22:07,671 --> 00:22:12,141 teammates who are going to be working on your repository. -408 +414 00:22:12,530 --> 00:22:15,080 How do you onboard them all at once? Right. -409 +415 00:22:15,631 --> 00:22:17,941 It- it starts there, you know, what the clear -410 +416 00:22:17,941 --> 00:22:20,550 paths of communication and do you lay that out? -411 +417 00:22:20,550 --> 00:22:23,730 How do you demonstrate that you are a friendly -412 +418 00:22:23,730 --> 00:22:27,090 repository for people to come and work on things? -413 +419 00:22:27,570 --> 00:22:32,221 I talked to, a maintainer of a really large project -414 +420 00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:40,320 a couple of months ago. one of the challenges that he -415 +421 00:22:35,161 --> 00:22:46,086 said was, so hard to find people to continue being maintainers -416 +422 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:47,615 for the project because He Was self-described as older. -417 +423 00:22:47,645 --> 00:22:50,375 And he said the other maintainers are older and -418 +424 00:22:50,375 --> 00:22:54,576 they could really use, new people to take it over. -419 +425 00:22:55,536 --> 00:22:57,666 But it's a catch 22 almost because so many of the -420 +426 00:22:57,666 --> 00:22:59,796 maintainers -421 +427 00:22:59,796 --> 00:23:03,695 don't want to spend the time to work with new contributors. -422 +428 00:23:04,236 --> 00:23:07,625 And ultimately those would be the perfect candidates once they -423 +429 00:23:07,625 --> 00:23:09,935 understood the repository and how to work through -424 +430 00:23:09,935 --> 00:23:13,885 -things, ot take it over for a while. and -I think. +things, ot take it over for a +while. and I think. -425 +431 00:23:14,506 --> 00:23:17,296 You know, going back to what we're doing and making -426 +432 00:23:17,296 --> 00:23:21,256 sure that we, work with all of our members at all -427 +433 00:23:21,256 --> 00:23:27,405 different levels and stages. Like that's the investment that -428 +434 00:23:22,996 --> 00:23:29,625 we put into, these repositories. We- we make sure that -429 +435 00:23:27,405 --> 00:23:32,476 people have mentors. We make sure that there are -430 +436 00:23:29,625 --> 00:23:36,346 repositories that are friendly to them and that these -431 +437 00:23:32,476 --> 00:23:40,965 it's about developing the relationships that go and create -432 +438 00:23:36,346 --> 00:23:42,165 community around your project. So you can sustain and grow. -433 +439 00:23:42,875 --> 00:23:46,317 Dan: Yeah, I love that. And like, that's- that's -434 +440 00:23:44,194 --> 00:23:47,607 one of the support things that we- we try to do too. -435 +441 00:23:47,657 --> 00:23:49,798 And this stuff that we're talking about is time consuming -436 +442 00:23:49,798 --> 00:23:54,508 from a maintainers perspective, you know, and there are a lot -437 +443 00:23:54,508 --> 00:23:56,907 of projects out there where, I feel like there are -438 +444 00:23:56,907 --> 00:23:59,067 people that would be open to country contributions, you -439 +445 00:23:59,067 --> 00:24:02,907 know, maybe haven't spelled out every single thing that -440 +446 00:24:02,907 --> 00:24:06,268 they could or whatever. And one of the things that -441 +447 00:24:03,748 --> 00:24:07,377 we can do at like, that we do- do as a community is. -442 +448 00:24:08,288 --> 00:24:10,807 Is maybe provide support for our contributors to -443 +449 00:24:10,837 --> 00:24:14,647 navigate, you know, different- different areas of repositories -444 +450 00:24:14,647 --> 00:24:18,667 and- and what's to you. Cause none of them are -445 +451 00:24:15,367 --> 00:24:21,817 ever going to be perfect. Right? no- no project is going -446 +452 00:24:19,057 --> 00:24:26,978 to have everything laid out. some will get close, you -447 +453 00:24:21,877 --> 00:24:28,928 know, but, anyway, that that's like one of the other -448 +454 00:24:26,978 --> 00:24:30,458 things that we do once, like once Hacktoberfest starts is. -449 +455 00:24:31,903 --> 00:24:34,782 Is provide support and mentorship in some time, you -450 +456 00:24:34,782 --> 00:24:37,722 know, in some places for people, format for our members to -451 +457 00:24:38,143 --> 00:24:40,782 kind of work through some of the social, you know, some of -452 +458 00:24:40,782 --> 00:24:44,712 the like social anxiety that can, that can, that can happen. -453 +459 00:24:44,742 --> 00:24:47,833 When, you know, when contributing to open source. -454 +460 00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:52,454 Kirk: Yeah. I think you touched on something -455 +461 00:24:48,845 --> 00:24:59,865 very important that are just like how scary it is to offer, -456 +462 00:24:52,454 --> 00:25:02,835 to help someone on project that like, you feel like, oh, I -457 +463 00:24:59,865 --> 00:25:04,365 don't particularly understand. And it's all this code. -458 +464 00:25:04,904 --> 00:25:08,565 And especially if you're an early career developer, like, -459 +465 00:25:08,595 --> 00:25:11,625 oh, I'm just, I just got here. I'm going to mess something up. -460 +466 00:25:12,105 --> 00:25:16,184 There's so many. It's something that we -461 +467 00:25:13,424 --> 00:25:20,884 don't really do in other circumstances, there's a lot -462 +468 00:25:16,184 --> 00:25:24,815 of anxiety around it and sort of anything you can do too, -463 +469 00:25:20,884 --> 00:25:30,154 as a maintainer to make people feel more welcome is- is like -464 +470 00:25:24,815 --> 00:25:33,125 worth it, know, and getting back to Preptember, like you said, -465 +471 00:25:30,154 --> 00:25:35,855 like this- this year, we want it to not just be Preptember -466 +472 00:25:33,125 --> 00:25:39,275 for maintainers, but also Preptember for contributors, -467 +473 00:25:35,855 --> 00:25:42,065 you know, we're- we're going to be doing, you know, a couple of -468 +474 00:25:39,275 --> 00:25:46,964 talks in a couple of sessions. You know, to show people what -469 +475 00:25:42,914 --> 00:25:51,555 contribution looks like, but also to let them see like not -470 +476 00:25:46,964 --> 00:25:55,035 scary it is and how approachable it can be, you know, just -471 +477 00:25:51,615 --> 00:25:58,275 -tanything we can do to kind of like get -through those layers of +tanything we can do to kind of +like get through those layers of -472 +478 00:25:55,755 --> 00:26:00,525 anxiety and get to that place where it's like, no, they, -473 +479 00:25:58,275 --> 00:26:01,515 they want me to be here. They want me to help. -474 +480 00:26:01,815 --> 00:26:06,194 They're okay with me learning. They're willing to sort of, -475 +481 00:26:03,194 --> 00:26:10,065 you know, guide them along. and that's when I think you -476 +482 00:26:06,825 --> 00:26:11,625 get to see people really- really shine and like really enjoy. -477 +483 00:26:12,690 --> 00:26:15,720 Making contributions to group projects. -478 +484 00:26:16,276 --> 00:26:18,675 Dan: So you mentioned some stuff, some- some events I -479 +485 00:26:18,675 --> 00:26:20,355 just wanted to kind of run through a couple of the ones -480 +486 00:26:20,355 --> 00:26:23,465 that we have for September. if that's all -481 +487 00:26:21,665 --> 00:26:27,846 right, real quick. September 3rd, which is -482 +488 00:26:24,425 --> 00:26:32,375 this Friday, we, I will be doing an event, a lunch -483 +489 00:26:27,846 --> 00:26:33,395 and learn event at noon eastern and, it's just an open. -484 +490 00:26:33,425 --> 00:26:35,855 So what's called the Open Source Project Walkthrough. -485 +491 00:26:36,846 --> 00:26:40,056 And this just sort of a tour, not really a deep -486 +492 00:26:40,506 --> 00:26:43,736 dive into any contr- you know, contributing, any- any, -487 +493 00:26:43,865 --> 00:26:45,816 anything as far as like pull requests or anything like that. -488 +494 00:26:45,816 --> 00:26:49,296 But, just a tour of what a, what a repository looks like. -489 +495 00:26:49,296 --> 00:26:51,006 What are all the different pieces that happen? -490 +496 00:26:51,066 --> 00:26:54,726 -What it looks like from the maintainers -perspective, +What it looks like from the +maintainers perspective, -491 +497 00:26:54,786 --> 00:27:00,336 On a project and, We'll just kind wander around. -492 +498 00:27:00,556 --> 00:27:03,665 It's not going to be a, it's not going to be super -493 +499 00:27:03,665 --> 00:27:07,036 in depth, but it'll be kind of fun and we'll, know, -494 +500 00:27:07,036 --> 00:27:08,796 we'll hang out and ask some questions and stuff like that. -495 +501 00:27:09,336 --> 00:27:12,455 And so that's me, that's Friday, September -496 +502 00:27:12,455 --> 00:27:17,046 17th is a lunch and learn, how to create an open -497 +503 00:27:17,046 --> 00:27:22,415 source or a repository. And so this is Kirk, at -498 +504 00:27:18,756 --> 00:27:26,375 September 17th at noon Eastern. And this is sort of geared -499 +505 00:27:23,016 --> 00:27:28,461 towards maintainers or. People who'd like -500 +506 00:27:27,141 --> 00:27:30,500 to be maintainers. kind of, and this is kind -501 +507 00:27:29,030 --> 00:27:31,250 of what we touched about and touched on a couple of times. -502 +508 00:27:31,250 --> 00:27:33,111 What kinds of things should we look at when we're, when -503 +509 00:27:33,111 --> 00:27:35,300 we're- we're talking, thinking about when creating an open -504 +510 00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:38,361 source project, because it's not just the code. -505 +511 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,790 Like we've talked about a bunch of times, right? -506 +512 00:27:40,790 --> 00:27:44,361 It's not just the code. there's a lot of things -507 +513 00:27:41,961 --> 00:27:47,750 we can do to help, to help, potential contributors actually -508 +514 00:27:44,451 --> 00:27:50,631 contribute to your project. So that is the 17th. -509 +515 00:27:50,721 --> 00:27:57,421 And then am what we got the 24th. which is the last Friday -510 +516 00:27:54,601 --> 00:28:00,931 I feel like probably in September is, this is -511 +517 00:27:57,421 --> 00:28:04,530 our intro to Hacktoberfest and, and open-source -512 +518 00:28:00,931 --> 00:28:06,990 -contributions, I think hosted by Bekah -but I'm pretty sure +contributions, I think hosted by +Bekah but I'm pretty sure -513 +519 00:28:04,530 --> 00:28:09,661 we'll- we'll, I'll be there. and this is a general -514 +520 00:28:07,050 --> 00:28:13,155 Hacktoberfest, you know, Jumping into everything event. -515 +521 00:28:13,215 --> 00:28:16,336 I guess I should have probably asked if Kirk, if you -516 +522 00:28:16,336 --> 00:28:20,806 had anything to say about your- your event, just -517 +523 00:28:18,375 --> 00:28:23,586 realized I was about to do either of you would -518 +524 00:28:20,806 --> 00:28:24,496 like to, you know, expand more on what I said. -519 +525 00:28:24,615 --> 00:28:27,855 but those, the events coming up, this month, -520 +526 00:28:28,455 --> 00:28:29,115 I'm excited about it. -521 +527 00:28:30,471 --> 00:28:33,891 Kirk: I think you covered the basis. -522 +528 00:28:33,921 --> 00:28:36,290 It's- it's going to be much what it says. -523 +529 00:28:36,830 --> 00:28:40,941 We're going to start from scratch with a, Hey, I have -524 +530 00:28:40,941 --> 00:28:45,270 something locally and I want to get it up on GitHub. -525 +531 00:28:45,391 --> 00:28:48,351 I want it to be open source and I want to do -526 +532 00:28:48,351 --> 00:28:50,931 the necessary things that people know that they can -527 +533 00:28:49,401 --> 00:28:54,185 come here and work here. We will cover the required docs. -528 +534 00:28:54,246 --> 00:28:57,695 We'll- we'll get some helpful, get up features for making that -529 +535 00:28:57,695 --> 00:29:00,276 process easier because they have invested a lot of resources -530 +536 00:29:00,756 --> 00:29:05,645 into that type of thing. we'll cover a few things -531 +537 00:29:02,736 --> 00:29:08,736 that GitHub doesn't really tell you about the, you sort -532 +538 00:29:05,645 --> 00:29:13,145 of learn from our work with VC and just all the other cool -533 +539 00:29:08,736 --> 00:29:17,586 projects in the community. So, I mean, totally recommended -534 +540 00:29:13,625 --> 00:29:18,665 for anyone who wants to start an open source project. -535 +541 00:29:19,580 --> 00:29:21,621 Anyone who already has one and they just want to get like a -536 +542 00:29:21,621 --> 00:29:24,951 refresher on what are the cool things happening nowadays to -537 +543 00:29:24,980 --> 00:29:28,221 make it engaging, even if you're a contributor where you just -538 +544 00:29:28,221 --> 00:29:30,320 want to see like, Hey, like what actually goes into this? -539 +545 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,351 I might want to do this next year or a couple -540 +546 00:29:32,371 --> 00:29:37,280 months down the line. I think all, all three -541 +547 00:29:33,681 --> 00:29:39,951 of our events will be super useful for anyone at any -542 +548 00:29:40,195 --> 00:29:40,256 Bekah: Yeah. -543 +549 00:29:40,401 --> 00:29:42,351 Kirk: part of the OSS. -544 +550 00:29:44,451 --> 00:29:47,391 Bekah: Yeah, and I always appreciate everybody coming. -545 +551 00:29:47,391 --> 00:29:50,540 If somebody is very experienced and has done it before and -546 +552 00:29:50,570 --> 00:29:53,931 has things to offer and can answer questions too, you know, -547 +553 00:29:53,931 --> 00:29:56,901 it's great to have a variety of voices from the community -548 +554 00:29:56,901 --> 00:30:00,050 who can talk about the things and, you know, we'll start -549 +555 00:30:00,050 --> 00:30:03,800 with, you know, what is HacktoberFest, because you -550 +556 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,408 know, I've met plenty of people who've been in tech for a long -551 +557 00:30:05,408 --> 00:30:07,016 time -552 +558 00:30:07,046 --> 00:30:10,165 and they're not familiar with Hactoberfest and it's okay. -553 +559 00:30:10,165 --> 00:30:12,415 It just depends on, you know, the- the circles -554 +560 00:30:12,415 --> 00:30:15,986 that you hang around. Right. to have exposure to that. -555 +561 00:30:16,316 --> 00:30:19,135 I think I, I was just in the like, free t-shirt. -556 +562 00:30:19,820 --> 00:30:23,000 Groups everywhere. And I was like, you go. -557 +563 00:30:24,381 --> 00:30:29,391 so we'll get you set up, learn how to, sign up for that. -558 +564 00:30:29,391 --> 00:30:33,230 Learn about how to find repositories that that eligible -559 +565 00:30:33,230 --> 00:30:38,691 for Hacktoberfest and talk through what it's like to work -560 +566 00:30:38,691 --> 00:30:43,971 your way through an issue about, Creating a pull request -561 +567 00:30:43,971 --> 00:30:47,421 and- and some tips for doing that or asking questions along -562 +568 00:30:47,421 --> 00:30:50,990 the way, but we'll definitely prioritize answering anyone's -563 +569 00:30:50,990 --> 00:30:56,260 questions at that point. just to make sure that -564 +570 00:30:52,611 --> 00:30:58,721 everybody feels comfortable and everyone feels comfortable -565 +571 00:30:56,260 --> 00:31:00,461 asking whatever questions they feel like asking. Right. -566 +572 00:31:00,461 --> 00:31:04,391 It's okay to ask all of the questions because -567 +573 00:31:04,391 --> 00:31:06,221 that's what we're here for. We're here to answer them. -568 +574 00:31:08,526 --> 00:31:10,086 Dan: Plus, I think we all like talking about it. -569 +575 00:31:10,685 --> 00:31:13,415 I always want people to ask questions because it's just fun. -570 +576 00:31:13,476 --> 00:31:15,695 It's just fun to talk about all this stuff for me, you know? -571 +577 00:31:15,695 --> 00:31:21,076 And, it's a. I like it can be anxiety inducing. -572 +578 00:31:21,076 --> 00:31:23,655 It was, it was for me, certainly like getting- getting -573 +579 00:31:23,655 --> 00:31:27,826 started and, the, you know, getting started with open -574 +580 00:31:27,826 --> 00:31:30,746 source, especially, especially contributing to like, to -575 +581 00:31:30,846 --> 00:31:33,405 projects of people who you don't know the people, right. -576 +582 00:31:33,405 --> 00:31:34,935 You don't know the maintainers and everything. -577 +583 00:31:34,996 --> 00:31:39,046 It doesn't have to be at, I think the, me, I think -578 +584 00:31:39,046 --> 00:31:42,846 the way that you get over it. The best way to get over -579 +585 00:31:40,625 --> 00:31:46,175 that anxiety is to, is to just kind of get started, you -580 +586 00:31:42,846 --> 00:31:47,496 know, ask questions, you know, all of that stuff. -581 +587 00:31:47,526 --> 00:31:49,445 And then, and then, and then we can kind of dive in. -582 +588 00:31:49,445 --> 00:31:51,905 And so that's why that's- that's gonna be our process -583 +589 00:31:51,905 --> 00:31:55,056 again this year, you know? well this event -584 +590 00:31:52,895 --> 00:31:58,865 should be fun. like on the 24th, that Beckha -585 +591 00:31:55,145 --> 00:32:02,885 is running and kind of hang out and then, Going into October -586 +592 00:31:58,895 --> 00:32:05,165 for Virtual Coffee, you know, we'll- we'll- we'll have some, -587 +593 00:32:02,885 --> 00:32:08,165 we'll have some more specific events, set up and some more -588 +594 00:32:05,165 --> 00:32:07,535 things kind of, kind of go in that we'll announce little bit -589 +595 00:32:07,535 --> 00:32:09,905 later. -590 +596 00:32:09,935 --> 00:32:12,695 In September, I guess, -591 +597 00:32:13,171 --> 00:32:13,290 Bekah: Yeah. -592 +598 00:32:13,296 --> 00:32:14,375 Dan: once we figured out what they all are. -593 +599 00:32:15,211 --> 00:32:17,310 Bekah: I think one of the cool things too, about how -594 +600 00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:20,520 much we've grown in the last year is that we have a lot -595 +601 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,780 more maintainers with us this year than we did last year. -596 +602 00:32:25,351 --> 00:32:28,411 who have their own projects or who have jobs at open -597 +603 00:32:28,411 --> 00:32:31,320 source, I'm working on open source projects. -598 +604 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,290 And so it's been great to kind of see that evolution of like, -599 +605 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,681 Oh, look, they participated last year and got their first PRS. -600 +606 00:32:37,711 --> 00:32:43,040 -And now they're like leading on, on -this. Open source project +And now they're like leading on, +on this. Open source project -601 +607 00:32:41,510 --> 00:32:44,631 in their company. And, you know, they're, they -602 +608 00:32:44,631 --> 00:32:47,810 bring with them that amazing experience of like knowing -603 +609 00:32:47,810 --> 00:32:51,800 what that feels like and being able to help new people. -604 +610 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,951 And there's a lot of, great projects and -605 +611 00:32:54,951 --> 00:32:57,171 also really meaningful projects out there too. -606 +612 00:32:57,171 --> 00:33:01,191 So going to be really exciting to see how much the -607 +613 00:33:01,191 --> 00:33:02,901 variety has grown as well. -608 +614 00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:07,211 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. That's a great point. and. -609 +615 00:33:08,826 --> 00:33:11,526 Well, I guess adding onto that, one of that, another thing that -610 +616 00:33:11,526 --> 00:33:15,635 we have new this year for us is, Some- some team, a team -611 +617 00:33:15,635 --> 00:33:18,455 of people that are helping out, actually run the events -612 +618 00:33:18,455 --> 00:33:20,976 and, you know, run- run these challenges and stuff like -613 +619 00:33:20,976 --> 00:33:24,516 that to our monthly challenge team, especially it has -614 +620 00:33:24,516 --> 00:33:29,046 been, has been kicking butt. I've been helping to get -615 +621 00:33:26,256 --> 00:33:32,256 this rolling in September and, So I just want to shout -616 +622 00:33:29,526 --> 00:33:33,965 out to, to everybody there too. because that's -617 +623 00:33:32,736 --> 00:33:37,955 been really cool. It's been cool to have like a -618 +624 00:33:34,056 --> 00:33:41,135 sort of a larger, I dunno, group of people to generate -619 +625 00:33:37,955 --> 00:33:43,326 ideas, bounce ideas off of, and, and you know, everything. -620 +626 00:33:43,326 --> 00:33:45,336 So that's, that's really fun. I'm excited about that. -621 +627 00:33:45,925 --> 00:33:47,246 Bekah: last year at this time, we didn't, we hadn't -622 +628 00:33:47,246 --> 00:33:49,286 started monthly challenges that started in November. -623 +629 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:55,431 with our blog challenge. So it's really cool too, to -624 +630 00:33:52,371 --> 00:34:02,540 see like where we've almost made that full circle of a -625 +631 00:33:55,431 --> 00:34:08,201 year of monthly challenges and after Hacktoberfest, we will be -626 -00:34:02,540 --> 00:34:09,431 -cause we have Preptember for September -then next month we're just going to totally dive into Hacktoberfest +632 +00:34:02,540 --> 00:34:05,985 +cause we have Preptember for +September then next month we're -627 -00:34:09,431 --> 00:34:12,940 -you having the last coupe months of having -people step up the game with monthly challenge and- and +633 +00:34:05,985 --> 00:34:09,430 +just going to totally dive into +Hacktoberfest -628 +634 +00:34:09,431 --> 00:34:11,185 +you having the last coupe months +of having people step up the + +635 +00:34:11,185 --> 00:34:12,939 +game with monthly challenge and- +and + +636 00:34:12,940 --> 00:34:16,210 have things thought through has been, you know, a really great -629 +637 00:34:16,210 --> 00:34:21,911 way to show how much support we have from the community that -630 +638 00:34:21,911 --> 00:34:25,181 allows us to do extra things and things that are meaningful. -631 +639 00:34:25,181 --> 00:34:28,210 And, you know, I- I got a message from one of the members. -632 +640 00:34:29,181 --> 00:34:34,161 Wait today is still August. So we did healthy -633 +641 00:34:30,951 --> 00:34:37,130 habits for healthy devs. And I checked in with -634 +642 00:34:34,581 --> 00:34:38,030 one of the members to see how they were doing. -635 +643 00:34:38,030 --> 00:34:40,731 And they said, well, this monthly challenge is getting me -636 +644 00:34:40,731 --> 00:34:44,090 through this month because it's requiring like, deliberately -637 +645 00:34:44,090 --> 00:34:49,041 thinking about my health and how I can turn off work and how -638 +646 00:34:49,041 --> 00:34:56,391 I can create healthy habits. And I just thought, you know, -639 +647 00:34:51,291 --> 00:35:01,655 what a wonderful example of how. The work that our members -640 +648 00:34:57,126 --> 00:35:06,485 provide to support us, goes to support everybody and -641 +649 00:35:02,376 --> 00:35:07,655 those meaningful moments make it all worth it. -642 +650 00:35:10,496 --> 00:35:17,126 Kirk: Yeah. I think part of what makes -643 +651 00:35:10,916 --> 00:35:18,775 this whole experience so good. It is. -644 +652 00:35:19,166 --> 00:35:24,085 I mean, it's obviously a great thing to work with to like -645 -00:35:24,115 --> 00:35:28,865 -provide an experience for other people. -But it's also been a really +653 +00:35:24,115 --> 00:35:26,490 +provide an experience for other +people. But it's also been a -646 +654 +00:35:26,490 --> 00:35:28,865 +really + +655 00:35:26,255 --> 00:35:32,465 cool to see people who have not had the experience to -647 +656 00:35:28,865 --> 00:35:34,925 maybe like provide the support in many ways in this space, -648 +657 00:35:32,556 --> 00:35:37,655 get a chance to do that. You know, there's, there's so -649 +658 00:35:35,405 --> 00:35:41,766 many folks now in the different teams we have, sometimes I, -650 +659 00:35:37,655 --> 00:35:44,615 hard for me to keep track of all the different issues we -651 +660 00:35:41,766 --> 00:35:46,596 have because we have all these different channels where people -652 +661 00:35:44,615 --> 00:35:49,085 are doing amazing things. everyone's saying like, oh, -653 +662 00:35:47,346 --> 00:35:50,016 this is the person that would have done something like this. -654 +663 00:35:50,016 --> 00:35:52,465 And they're doing such amazing jobs. And. -655 +664 00:35:53,255 --> 00:35:56,226 You know, I feel like a big, a big part of what I like -656 +665 00:35:56,226 --> 00:35:58,865 about Virtual Coffee is that like, this is like, this is -657 +666 00:35:58,865 --> 00:36:02,945 no one's job, but also in the sense that for a lot of -658 +667 00:36:02,945 --> 00:36:07,626 us, it's the first time we were trying to do something -659 +668 00:36:07,806 --> 00:36:11,045 and all we really had was the belief that we could do it. -660 +669 00:36:11,405 --> 00:36:15,186 And like the belief that we can get support if we needed to. -661 +670 00:36:15,936 --> 00:36:20,405 And that to me has been, you know, super empowering. -662 +671 00:36:22,141 --> 00:36:24,286 Just like Having a space where you can to help other people and -663 +672 00:36:24,286 --> 00:36:26,431 try -664 +673 00:36:26,431 --> 00:36:29,521 and work with other people and try and initiative where -665 +674 00:36:29,521 --> 00:36:34,411 you can feel comfortable with making mistakes and having to -666 +675 00:36:34,411 --> 00:36:38,331 do things over and not having to be perfect on Zoom or, you know, -667 +676 00:36:38,371 --> 00:36:42,990 just that's, that's hard to find sometimes in real life land, -668 +677 00:36:42,990 --> 00:36:45,990 like you feel like the work you have to do everything perfectly. -669 +678 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,320 sometimes even just like interpersonal relationships. -670 +679 00:36:51,146 --> 00:36:57,615 That feels really healthy. And that feels almost like as -671 +680 00:36:52,706 --> 00:37:01,036 important as like who were on the receiving it, being able -672 +681 00:36:57,615 --> 00:37:02,675 to help people on the giving end has been really good. -673 +682 00:37:02,896 --> 00:37:06,525 And I mean, the big discovery, which I guess isn't really -674 +683 00:37:06,525 --> 00:37:09,726 surprising in retrospect because it like why people want to give -675 +684 00:37:09,726 --> 00:37:12,465 back, they want to help, you know, our communities here. -676 +685 00:37:12,465 --> 00:37:14,505 Cause it's just like, oh, this is just a nice space -677 +686 00:37:14,505 --> 00:37:17,266 where I get to help folks out. And, -678 +687 00:37:18,780 --> 00:37:24,869 Dan: Yeah. I mean, I love that I was going -679 +688 00:37:19,409 --> 00:37:27,389 to segue into some other stuff, but do we have any final, -680 +689 00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:30,835 like Hacktoberfest thoughts? other than. We're excited. -681 +690 00:37:31,489 --> 00:37:33,320 Bekah: Well, I just want to say too, just looking -682 +691 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,530 back at how much I've grown personally in the last year, -683 +692 00:37:36,530 --> 00:37:41,889 learning from everybody. you know, as we're -684 +693 00:37:38,269 --> 00:37:45,639 approaching this and we're doing this big event and all -685 +694 00:37:41,889 --> 00:37:48,699 of these things, think last year I things more in black -686 +695 00:37:45,639 --> 00:37:50,320 and white, like there was success or there was failure. -687 +696 00:37:50,679 --> 00:37:53,619 And I think this year for me, it's- it's not ever about that. -688 +697 00:37:53,619 --> 00:37:55,780 It's about the growth. Am I growing? -689 +698 00:37:55,780 --> 00:37:58,269 You know, what am I doing to push myself forward and -690 +699 00:37:58,269 --> 00:37:59,774 to support the other people? think that's just a Testament -691 +700 00:37:59,774 --> 00:38:01,279 to. -692 +701 00:38:01,735 --> 00:38:05,695 The community that's here is supporting everyone -693 +702 00:38:05,695 --> 00:38:08,244 because it isn't, it- it's not success or failure. -694 +703 00:38:08,244 --> 00:38:12,505 We're all moving forward. We're all growing and we're -695 +704 00:38:09,534 --> 00:38:13,614 growing together, and growing in different ways. -696 +705 00:38:13,614 --> 00:38:17,004 And so I think that, I'm- I'm very excited that we wrap up -697 +706 00:38:17,004 --> 00:38:20,394 August with -698 +707 00:38:20,425 --> 00:38:24,355 healthy habits for healthy devs, because it gives a much better -699 +708 00:38:24,355 --> 00:38:27,099 perspective going into some really, you know, event heavy -700 +709 00:38:27,099 --> 00:38:29,843 months. -701 +710 00:38:30,918 --> 00:38:38,047 Dan: I think that's a good point. I think you might be sub -702 +711 00:38:33,257 --> 00:38:43,527 tweeting me right now, but I make my own choices. Yeah. -703 +712 00:38:43,527 --> 00:38:47,467 I- I'll echo that. I mean, it's, this -704 +713 00:38:44,498 --> 00:38:52,117 community is so great. And the- the we've sort of -705 +714 00:38:47,467 --> 00:38:55,717 naturally, focused on, on mental health, I think, -706 +715 00:38:52,148 --> 00:38:57,907 from the beginning, you know, without- without any, without -707 +716 00:38:55,717 --> 00:39:00,628 any sort of decision, right. It was a natural thing -708 +717 00:38:57,907 --> 00:39:01,967 because, the people here. Care. -709 +718 00:39:02,057 --> 00:39:06,858 You know, and we see over and over again, everybody -710 +719 00:39:06,858 --> 00:39:09,827 knows and has experienced I'm sure, you know, -711 +720 00:39:09,827 --> 00:39:12,858 burnout and, overworking and all of that stuff. -712 +721 00:39:12,887 --> 00:39:18,047 The fact that our community is a community of -713 +722 00:39:18,047 --> 00:39:20,148 people who like, who care so much about each other, that, -714 +723 00:39:20,177 --> 00:39:23,148 you know, giving support for that, with mental -715 +724 00:39:23,148 --> 00:39:25,128 health just kind of comes naturally for everybody. -716 +725 00:39:25,128 --> 00:39:29,748 And it, And especially, I- I wan I want to especially shout -717 +726 00:39:29,748 --> 00:39:31,637 out to Kirk here, because this is one of the things that, -718 +727 00:39:31,637 --> 00:39:34,728 you know, that he injected into all of our thought -719 +728 00:39:34,728 --> 00:39:40,097 processes at the beginning. this is while we were -720 +729 00:39:35,927 --> 00:39:42,588 maybe not practicing it, this, you know, in this time -721 +730 00:39:40,188 --> 00:39:45,588 of year, maybe September last year, we were pulling -722 +731 00:39:42,588 --> 00:39:48,608 together a documentation and resources and the website -723 +732 00:39:45,717 --> 00:39:53,273 for Hacktoberfest and. And Kirk's, I just love, -724 +733 00:39:50,483 --> 00:39:54,222 I just loved Kirk's thoughts on all of it. -725 +734 00:39:54,222 --> 00:39:56,813 And, and the, the focus on the mental health and the -726 +735 00:39:56,813 --> 00:39:59,182 taking a break and the, you know, all that stuff, it's, -727 +736 00:39:59,213 --> 00:40:01,492 it can be easy to get, even with volunteer stuff, it can -728 +737 00:40:01,492 --> 00:40:05,612 be easy to get caught up. and, and everything, -729 +738 00:40:02,512 --> 00:40:07,463 you know, and like Bekah said, the black and whiteness -730 +739 00:40:05,632 --> 00:40:10,697 of everything, you know, anyway, the mental health -731 +740 00:40:08,088 --> 00:40:12,197 focus of our, of our, community is amazing. -732 +741 00:40:12,197 --> 00:40:14,838 And I, never really put it together like that, but I think -733 +742 00:40:14,838 --> 00:40:17,657 that's a great point that August was sort of a breather month -734 +743 00:40:17,657 --> 00:40:19,547 that, you know, in a, in a mental health check-in month. -735 +744 00:40:19,637 --> 00:40:23,597 And I don't know, it's a good, it's a great thing to -736 +745 00:40:23,597 --> 00:40:26,478 keep in mind, moving forward, moving forward for of us. -737 +746 00:40:27,858 --> 00:40:31,157 Even if I'm not always going to be good at doing what's that -738 +747 00:40:32,023 --> 00:40:37,152 Kirk: Why Dan and Bekah not good at taking breaks? No. -739 +748 00:40:37,603 --> 00:40:38,862 Who would think that. -740 +749 00:40:38,963 --> 00:40:39,773 Bekah: What? Why are you pulling me into this? -741 +750 00:40:40,123 --> 00:40:41,472 Kirk: You- you would identify with this? -742 +751 00:40:41,503 --> 00:40:46,782 but don't think you're not here. This podcast could -743 +752 00:40:44,443 --> 00:40:48,373 be called like people with letting go issues, -744 +753 00:40:49,188 --> 00:40:49,547 Bekah: Yeah. -745 +754 00:40:50,632 --> 00:40:53,932 Kirk: but it's okay. That's what we have -746 +755 00:40:52,043 --> 00:40:56,452 The community for to remind us like it's it's okay. -747 +756 00:40:56,597 --> 00:40:57,617 Bekah: frozen soundtrack. -748 +757 00:40:57,889 --> 00:40:58,880 Kirk: Oh, I still haven't watched it. -749 +758 00:40:59,034 --> 00:40:59,815 Bekah: You said, let it go. -750 +759 00:41:00,860 --> 00:41:04,530 Kirk: I've never seen Frozen. Not one or two. -751 +760 00:41:05,505 --> 00:41:09,784 Heard good things. I'll wait for the live action. -752 +761 00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:16,760 Dan: Yeah. That's all right. so. -753 +762 00:41:17,824 --> 00:41:21,965 I- I think I said at the top maybe, but this is the -754 +763 00:41:21,965 --> 00:41:25,894 last episode of season three of our podcast and we're kind -755 +764 00:41:25,894 --> 00:41:26,755 of wrapping up and things. So I wanted to, before we end -756 +765 00:41:27,155 --> 00:41:33,000 this episode, I dunno, shout out some- some different things -757 +766 00:41:33,755 --> 00:41:37,594 that have happened over either the last, you know, during -758 +767 00:41:35,764 --> 00:41:39,875 the last season or the last, year with Virtual Coffee. -759 +768 00:41:40,385 --> 00:41:43,525 So I guess first the, podcast we -760 +769 00:41:43,525 --> 00:41:48,684 passed 4,000 downloads. but you know, total for our -761 +770 00:41:45,054 --> 00:41:51,235 podcasts, a little bit ago. And I just, I think -762 +771 00:41:48,804 --> 00:41:53,005 that's amazing. And I wanted to, say -763 +772 00:41:51,235 --> 00:41:53,846 thank you to everybody who's been listening. -764 +773 00:41:53,936 --> 00:41:55,646 And everybody who's joined. -765 +774 00:41:55,740 --> 00:41:56,840 Bekah: Everybody whose come on and told their story. -766 +775 00:41:57,425 --> 00:42:02,235 Dan: Yes. including Kirk is, -767 +776 00:41:58,445 --> 00:42:03,646 you know, repeat guest, and, yeah, it's really great. -768 +777 00:42:03,646 --> 00:42:05,706 It's- it's crazy that there's so many people I've -769 +778 00:42:05,715 --> 00:42:08,626 listened to, to our podcast. I don't know. -770 +779 00:42:08,806 --> 00:42:12,465 It's hard to really comprehend 4,000 people or -771 +780 00:42:12,465 --> 00:42:14,865 4,000, you know, listens I guess, or whatever. -772 +781 00:42:14,865 --> 00:42:17,655 But, I just, I dunno, I wanted to shout that -773 +782 00:42:17,655 --> 00:42:18,885 out and say, thank you. -774 +783 00:42:19,766 --> 00:42:22,275 Kirk: Am I the first person to repeat on the podcast? -775 +784 00:42:22,768 --> 00:42:24,458 Dan: Yeah- Yeah, for sure. Yeah. -776 +785 00:42:24,697 --> 00:42:25,358 Bekah: co-host -777 +786 00:42:25,492 --> 00:42:25,913 Kirk: I'm the Martin Short -778 +787 00:42:25,958 --> 00:42:26,887 Bekah: or sometimes cohost. -779 +788 00:42:28,043 --> 00:42:31,132 Kirk: the secret co-host only, you only get access to me if -780 +789 00:42:31,132 --> 00:42:33,672 you listen to enough of it. So if you're listening -781 +790 00:42:33,672 --> 00:42:36,212 congratulations. -782 +791 00:42:37,487 --> 00:42:41,288 Dan: One thing Kirk said earlier about, just the -783 +792 00:42:41,288 --> 00:42:44,498 community kind of work together. Made me think of the -784 +793 00:42:42,248 --> 00:42:47,108 coworking room as well. a co-working -785 +794 00:42:44,557 --> 00:42:51,367 room for anybody who is listening, who doesn't -786 +795 00:42:48,068 --> 00:42:53,527 know is a, room it's a slack channel in a room -787 +796 00:42:51,367 --> 00:42:57,248 in Virtual Coffee, Slack that, it's basically, -788 +797 00:42:53,527 --> 00:43:02,137 and always on zoom meeting. And so people can join the -789 +798 00:42:57,398 --> 00:43:02,978 meeting and work together and hang out together. -790 +799 00:43:02,978 --> 00:43:06,458 Kirk, I think, like you visit pretty often. Do you want to -791 +800 00:43:07,057 --> 00:43:07,268 come here? -792 +801 00:43:07,762 --> 00:43:09,563 Kirk: I pretty much live in the co-working room. -793 +802 00:43:09,668 --> 00:43:10,117 Dan: can you, can -794 +803 00:43:10,168 --> 00:43:10,288 Bekah: Yeah. -795 +804 00:43:10,358 --> 00:43:11,018 Dan: Can you talk about it a little bit? -796 +805 00:43:11,152 --> 00:43:13,193 Kirk: well, I mean, first I think like the important thing -797 +806 00:43:13,193 --> 00:43:16,702 is to say, shout out to Dan for making the coworking room. -798 +807 00:43:16,762 --> 00:43:18,202 it, -799 +808 00:43:18,307 --> 00:43:20,018 Dan: I don't know. We're shouting out other -800 +809 00:43:18,547 --> 00:43:20,018 people in this sector. -801 +810 00:43:20,603 --> 00:43:23,663 Kirk: I, yeah, but like from the, from the Slack side, -802 +811 00:43:23,663 --> 00:43:25,432 it looks like very simple. You hit join again. -803 +812 00:43:26,108 --> 00:43:29,228 But I know like you're doing like several magics to get -804 +813 00:43:29,228 --> 00:43:34,958 that all working smoothly. So, I mean, you were sincerely -805 +814 00:43:30,338 --> 00:43:38,617 rewarded for your efforts. I think the folks that use the -806 +815 00:43:34,958 --> 00:43:42,938 room really- really value it. for a lot of members, there -807 +816 00:43:39,307 --> 00:43:44,737 are a couple of our members. Sometimes it's difficult -808 +817 00:43:42,938 --> 00:43:47,978 for them to get to regular coffees, I've had one or two -809 +818 00:43:44,737 --> 00:43:50,047 folks say, but I know I can always jump in coworking -810 +819 00:43:47,978 --> 00:43:52,327 and there's usually someone there and sometimes that's my -811 +820 00:43:50,047 --> 00:43:54,188 Virtual Coffee for the week. so that's really good. -812 +821 00:43:55,012 --> 00:44:00,472 And, you know, it's- it's just become, it's just another -813 +822 00:44:00,563 --> 00:44:03,472 space, another platform for VC members to interact with each -814 +823 00:44:03,472 --> 00:44:08,512 other and provide support. sometimes people will -815 +824 00:44:06,052 --> 00:44:10,643 have questions and helping pairing, and they're like, -816 +825 00:44:08,512 --> 00:44:12,773 Hey, you know, if no one's in the co-working room, jump in. -817 +826 00:44:12,773 --> 00:44:14,962 Or, and then the coworking room becomes like a little watch and -818 +827 00:44:14,962 --> 00:44:17,151 learn -819 +828 00:44:17,152 --> 00:44:20,782 session where, know, everyone's just like, trying to help the -820 +829 00:44:20,782 --> 00:44:22,882 person do the problem, but also watching people kind of -821 +830 00:44:22,882 --> 00:44:24,884 pair up and go through solutions. So it's, it's got a -822 +831 00:44:24,884 --> 00:44:26,886 lot of -823 +832 00:44:24,427 --> 00:44:31,297 purposes, but it's- it's definitely I know the members -824 +833 00:44:26,887 --> 00:44:36,077 really appreciate really enjoy. shout out also to Meg, who -825 +834 00:44:31,898 --> 00:44:42,637 I think also there's a lot of work in there and, Yeah, -826 +835 00:44:36,728 --> 00:44:45,108 it's, I think it quickly rose up the ranks to become like -827 +836 00:44:42,637 --> 00:44:49,838 one of the coolest parts of VC who had coworking helping -828 +837 00:44:45,108 --> 00:44:49,838 pairing just like a, this is. -829 +838 00:44:51,253 --> 00:44:55,092 Dan: Yeah, the and I feel like they kind of are almost, -830 +839 00:44:55,782 --> 00:44:57,282 you had to work together, right? Help and pairing. -831 +840 00:44:57,742 --> 00:45:00,402 have a help and pairing channel, you know, Just -832 +841 00:45:00,402 --> 00:45:02,922 very often, see somebody asks a question and somebody -833 +842 00:45:02,922 --> 00:45:05,563 answered, Hey, I have a minute. Let's jump into -834 +843 00:45:03,882 --> 00:45:07,333 the coworking room. which is amazing. -835 +844 00:45:07,873 --> 00:45:13,092 I, we were going to add our, like the, to our newsletter. -836 +845 00:45:13,092 --> 00:45:16,422 We're going to add the longest meeting of the month or longest, -837 +846 00:45:16,422 --> 00:45:18,402 and not meeting with the longest, coworking session. -838 +847 00:45:18,402 --> 00:45:21,313 Right. So can last, you know, somebody starts a session. -839 +848 00:45:21,313 --> 00:45:23,143 The session lasts until the last person leaves. Right. -840 +849 00:45:23,143 --> 00:45:24,913 So it doesn't necessarily have to be that person -841 +850 00:45:24,913 --> 00:45:27,103 staying on the whole time. Right. And so. -842 +851 00:45:27,898 --> 00:45:30,628 Subscribe to your newsletter if you want to see it the -843 +852 00:45:30,688 --> 00:45:34,197 longest in August, but I, that made me want to look it up what -844 +853 00:45:34,197 --> 00:45:40,677 the historical longest one. And so it was, 789 -845 +854 00:45:35,157 --> 00:45:41,967 minutes, on- on the, at the, end of July- July 24th. -846 +855 00:45:42,447 --> 00:45:46,728 So that, you know, I mean, that's, whatever -847 +856 00:45:46,728 --> 00:45:47,628 it is, I did this -848 +857 00:45:47,777 --> 00:45:49,307 Kirk: No, don't convert it to hours. -849 +858 00:45:49,338 --> 00:45:52,338 It doesn't sound as cool. Okay. So it sounds pretty cool. -850 +859 00:45:52,422 --> 00:45:57,132 Dan: 13 hours over 13 hours, yeah- Yeah. That's, it's, -851 +860 00:45:54,793 --> 00:46:00,163 it, it's pretty cool. And it's just cool that -852 +861 00:45:57,132 --> 00:46:01,753 somebody, like some of our friends were just -853 +862 00:46:00,163 --> 00:46:02,382 hanging out for that long. You know what I mean? -854 +863 00:46:02,532 --> 00:46:06,432 I love it. We, we have, I don't know, -855 +864 00:46:03,643 --> 00:46:07,693 almost 350 sessions have happened since we started it. -856 +865 00:46:09,268 --> 00:46:11,097 February, maybe they're at the beginning of the year. -857 +866 00:46:11,128 --> 00:46:16,197 And, it's been cool. So if you are a member and -858 +867 00:46:13,498 --> 00:46:16,947 haven't checked it out, go ahead and check it out. -859 +868 00:46:17,038 --> 00:46:19,588 And, if you aren't a Virtual Coffee member, -860 +869 00:46:19,588 --> 00:46:22,438 this is just one of the many things you're missing. -861 +870 00:46:25,077 --> 00:46:28,000 The, what else? We got podcast as -862 +871 00:46:28,077 --> 00:46:29,608 Bekah: We got sponsorships -863 +872 00:46:33,288 --> 00:46:34,000 sponsorships. Bekah, do you wanna tell -864 +873 00:46:34,188 --> 00:46:34,657 us about sponsorships? -865 +874 00:46:34,938 --> 00:46:35,588 Bekah: Sure. I'll tell you about sponsorships. -866 +875 00:46:36,097 --> 00:46:40,027 So you can sponsor Virtual Coffee, help us keep the -867 +876 00:46:40,027 --> 00:46:45,668 coffee brewing, on GitHub. I'll have a link in the show -868 +877 00:46:42,338 --> 00:46:50,128 notes for that, but if you just go to GitHub.com/Virtual-Coffee. -869 +878 00:46:50,487 --> 00:46:52,887 There'll be a little heart sponsor button and there's -870 +879 00:46:52,887 --> 00:46:57,268 different tiers there for different ways that you can, -871 +880 00:46:57,327 --> 00:47:02,697 Contribute, to Virtual Coffee, to make sure that we -872 +881 00:47:02,697 --> 00:47:06,358 can cover some of the costs that are, that, that are -873 +882 00:47:06,358 --> 00:47:10,677 incurred to run Virtual Coffee. And I think maybe we'll. -874 +883 00:47:11,458 --> 00:47:14,697 Put something up there. We'll be talking -875 +884 00:47:12,898 --> 00:47:16,168 more about having a Hacktoberfest sponsor too. -876 +885 00:47:16,168 --> 00:47:19,228 So if you're listening to this and you know, somebody who'd be -877 +886 00:47:19,228 --> 00:47:26,458 interested and sponsoring all of our fun, please just reach out -878 +887 00:47:26,458 --> 00:47:28,788 to us at hello@virtualcoffee.io. -879 +888 00:47:30,597 --> 00:47:34,137 Dan: Yep. we have, we have on our home on a, on like -880 +889 00:47:34,137 --> 00:47:38,668 on our website website. we have a section -881 +890 00:47:36,407 --> 00:47:42,327 of our sponsors too. So you can see who has supported -882 +891 00:47:38,668 --> 00:47:45,818 us so far that we have like 26- 26 sponsors, and I want -883 +892 00:47:42,327 --> 00:47:47,047 to say thank you to everybody who has sponsored us so far. -884 +893 00:47:48,128 --> 00:47:51,608 Well, yeah. So is there anything else -885 +894 00:47:49,027 --> 00:47:52,597 we wanted to, we wanted to cover before we wrap up. -886 +895 00:47:53,202 --> 00:47:55,393 Bekah: I just want to say thank you to everybody that has -887 +896 00:47:55,393 --> 00:48:00,672 donated their time and their effort, resources to making -888 +897 00:48:00,672 --> 00:48:03,733 sure that everybody has been supported over the last year -889 +898 00:48:03,733 --> 00:48:09,943 that we've been doing this. You know, it's still an amazing -890 +899 00:48:05,172 --> 00:48:15,583 thing in my mind that here we are a year later, closer and -891 +900 00:48:09,943 --> 00:48:17,503 together and grown so much. And we're able to do this again. -892 +901 00:48:17,503 --> 00:48:21,043 So you for everyone for making sure that that -893 +902 00:48:21,043 --> 00:48:21,702 got to happen, again. -894 +903 00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:30,041 Kirk: Yeah. I think, I just want to -895 +904 00:48:23,170 --> 00:48:31,905 say I- I- I still get a lot of. I don't know. -896 +905 00:48:31,905 --> 00:48:34,706 I still, a lot of people ask me like, Hey, you know, what -897 +906 00:48:34,706 --> 00:48:38,275 happens when VC gets too big? Or what are we going to -898 +907 00:48:36,326 --> 00:48:41,996 do when VC gets super big? And I'm like, well, I mean, -899 +908 00:48:38,275 --> 00:48:48,206 you know, every community has growing pains, I think what -900 +909 00:48:41,996 --> 00:48:53,755 makes me feel really happy and, really positive is no, -901 +910 00:48:48,266 --> 00:48:58,615 every- every time I come into VC, I still see people being -902 +911 00:48:53,755 --> 00:49:01,346 really, warm and caring. I still see people -903 +912 00:48:59,576 --> 00:49:02,246 supporting each other and the heavy channel. -904 +913 00:49:02,666 --> 00:49:05,275 I still see people supporting each other and helping pairing. -905 +914 00:49:05,786 --> 00:49:07,976 And I think the cool thing is there's a lot of -906 +915 00:49:07,976 --> 00:49:11,525 folks who have been here since last Hacktoberfest. -907 +916 00:49:11,545 --> 00:49:14,306 You know, you have folks who have been here for -908 +917 00:49:12,146 --> 00:49:17,666 over a year with us, and that's amazing, but we also have a lot -909 +918 00:49:14,306 --> 00:49:22,045 of new folks, know, folks with been here a month, two months, -910 +919 00:49:17,666 --> 00:49:26,501 three months, and they are. Enjoying it, loving it and -911 +920 00:49:23,291 --> 00:49:29,411 then making new friendships and supporting other people and -912 +921 00:49:26,561 --> 00:49:33,460 being supportive themselves. And I don't know that just, -913 +922 00:49:30,010 --> 00:49:35,650 it just always makes me- me feel really good every time -914 +923 00:49:33,460 --> 00:49:39,380 I see someone who hasn't been here that long, but when we -915 +924 00:49:35,650 --> 00:49:41,920 do our Friday gratitude or Wednesday shout outs, like, -916 +925 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:45,460 Hey, I really liked this space. And I really liked the people -917 +926 00:49:41,951 --> 00:49:47,530 here and I want to help out. And, that makes me -918 +927 00:49:45,641 --> 00:49:48,400 think that, you know, they're still doing that. -919 +928 00:49:49,447 --> 00:49:52,777 Dan: Yeah, I would, I- I would just echo both -920 +929 00:49:53,137 --> 00:49:58,358 what you've all said. You know, this community is -921 +930 00:49:54,188 --> 00:49:59,257 amazing and I'm very glad and proud to be part of it. -922 +931 00:49:59,858 --> 00:50:03,547 And the members. What makes you know, -923 +932 00:50:01,628 --> 00:50:05,047 what make it amazing. And, I don't know. -924 +933 00:50:05,047 --> 00:50:05,978 I'm looking forward to another year. -925 +934 00:50:05,978 --> 00:50:08,947 I- I am very, very pumped about Hacktoberfest this year. -926 +935 00:50:09,007 --> 00:50:11,197 I'm very pumped about the things we have going on. -927 +936 00:50:11,588 --> 00:50:16,268 The people that are going to be involved I've yet -928 +937 00:50:16,268 --> 00:50:19,478 to brew up exactly how I'm going to, you know, try to. -929 +938 00:50:20,273 --> 00:50:23,842 Murder myself at the end of the month, trying to redo -930 +939 00:50:23,842 --> 00:50:25,132 something, but I'm sure I'll think of something. -931 +940 00:50:25,463 --> 00:50:27,532 And I'm pumped about that too honestly, because there -932 +941 00:50:27,532 --> 00:50:32,092 was a lot of fun last year. so yeah, I guess, I -933 +942 00:50:28,913 --> 00:50:35,123 guess that's pretty much it. if you want to keep up to -934 +943 00:50:32,483 --> 00:50:38,273 date with us, you know, subscribe to our newsletter, -935 +944 00:50:35,123 --> 00:50:42,563 follow us on Twitter at, Virtual Coffee -936 +945 00:50:38,393 --> 00:50:42,563 IO, follow us somewhere. -937 +946 00:50:43,132 --> 00:50:45,322 Bekah: To check out our site. We've got lots of -938 +947 00:50:43,882 --> 00:50:45,322 good stuff on there. -939 +948 00:50:45,713 --> 00:50:46,972 Dan: Yeah, we have a dope website. -940 +949 00:50:47,003 --> 00:50:52,253 It's at Virtual Coffee.io. subscribe on your podcast. -941 +950 00:50:52,552 --> 00:50:56,302 Software of choice. If you have not done that yet, -942 +951 00:50:53,813 --> 00:50:58,132 what are you supposed to say? Hit that something about, -943 +952 00:50:58,182 --> 00:51:01,592 Bekah: hit like, no, as for YouTube, you can -944 +953 00:51:01,612 --> 00:51:01,913 Dan: oh -945 +954 00:51:02,012 --> 00:51:03,753 Bekah: our YouTube channel too. Cause we've got one -946 +955 00:51:03,853 --> 00:51:05,382 Dan: Oh yeah. We have a YouTube channel. -947 +956 00:51:05,742 --> 00:51:07,932 We have a YouTube channel. So subscribe to that. -948 +957 00:51:08,282 --> 00:51:09,932 Bekah: on the podcast and leave us a message. -949 +958 00:51:09,932 --> 00:51:13,532 It's always so great. When we get messages or -950 +959 00:51:10,833 --> 00:51:14,282 reviews about our podcasts, when they're nice. -951 +960 00:51:14,282 --> 00:51:17,432 We never got a mean one. So don't leave a mean -952 +961 00:51:15,213 --> 00:51:17,432 one, but ones are good. -953 +962 00:51:18,023 --> 00:51:21,862 Dan: Nice. All five stars only as Jason Concepcion would -954 +963 00:51:21,862 --> 00:51:25,972 say on his podcast. yes, we would -955 +964 00:51:23,123 --> 00:51:29,963 love to hear from you. if you have suggestions or, -956 +965 00:51:26,032 --> 00:51:31,612 Questions, comments hit us up on Twitter, Slack, anything. -957 +966 00:51:31,672 --> 00:51:35,873 And yeah, I guess we will see you next season. -958 +967 00:51:36,233 --> 00:51:38,452 Next season will drop, beginning of October. -959 +968 00:51:38,452 --> 00:51:40,313 So we're going to take you to take a month off podcast -960 +969 00:51:40,313 --> 00:51:44,378 -and we will be back a season four in -October. +and we will be back a season +four in October. -961 +970 00:51:44,597 --> 00:51:46,217 Kirk: Bye for me, Definitely Bekah. -962 +971 00:51:48,471 --> 00:51:49,280 Dan: All right. Bye everyone. -963 +972 00:51:49,420 --> 00:51:55,878 Bekah: Bye. Thank you for listening -964 +973 00:51:53,929 --> 00:51:57,349 to this episode of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. -965 +974 00:51:57,619 --> 00:52:00,929 This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot -966 +975 00:52:00,949 --> 00:52:06,139 Weigel and edited by Dan Ott. If you have questions or -967 +976 00:52:03,768 --> 00:52:10,568 comments, you can hit us up on Twitter at VirtualCoffeeIO, -968 +977 00:52:06,139 --> 00:52:12,679 or you can email us at podcast@virtualcoffee.io. -969 +978 00:52:13,398 --> 00:52:15,978 You can find the show notes, plus you can sign up for our -970 +979 00:52:15,978 --> 00:52:19,068 newsletter to find out what Virtual Coffee's been up to on -971 +980 00:52:19,068 --> 00:52:22,059 our website at virtualcoffee.io. -972 +981 00:52:22,773 --> 00:52:25,023 Dan: Please subscribe to our podcast and be sure -973 +982 00:52:25,023 --> 00:52:27,454 to leave us a review. Thanks for listening. -974 +983 00:52:27,454 --> 00:52:28,684 And we'll see you next week. \ No newline at end of file From cff38be8737970950541c462a665fe6ba0d2758a Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Chris Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 16:00:46 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 08/13] returning S4 ep2 to original version, was add to brach by mistake --- episodes/4_2.srt | 2684 ++++++++++++++++++++++------------------------ 1 file changed, 1298 insertions(+), 1386 deletions(-) diff --git a/episodes/4_2.srt b/episodes/4_2.srt index 6e1da5b..f6314be 100644 --- a/episodes/4_2.srt +++ b/episodes/4_2.srt @@ -1,4268 +1,4180 @@ 1 -00:00:05,203 --> 00:00:07,213 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Hello, and -welcome to Season 4, Episode 2 +00:00:05,203 --> 00:00:09,223 +Bekah: Hello, and welcome to +season four, episode two of the 2 -00:00:07,213 --> 00:00:09,223 -two of the - -3 00:00:09,223 --> 00:00:11,342 Virtual Coffee Podcast. I'm Bekah. And this is a podcast -4 +3 00:00:11,342 --> 00:00:13,461 that -5 +4 00:00:13,461 --> 00:00:17,452 features members of the Virtual Coffee community. Virtual Coffee -6 +5 00:00:17,452 --> 00:00:18,876 is an intimate group of developers at all stages of -7 +6 00:00:18,876 --> 00:00:20,300 their -8 +7 00:00:20,301 --> 00:00:23,271 coding journey. And they're here on this podcast, sharing their -9 +8 00:00:23,271 --> 00:00:24,891 stories and what they've learned. And we're here to share -10 +9 00:00:24,891 --> 00:00:26,511 it with -11 +10 00:00:26,512 --> 00:00:29,692 you here with me. Today is my cohost Dan. -12 -00:00:30,754 --> 00:00:32,539 -Dan Ott: Thanks Bekah. Today -we're joined by Todd Libby. Todd - -13 -00:00:32,539 --> 00:00:34,324 -is a +11 +00:00:30,754 --> 00:00:34,325 +Dan: Thanks Bekah. Today we're +joined by Todd Libby. Todd is a -14 +12 00:00:34,325 --> 00:00:37,804 web developer designer and accessibility advocate. And he's -15 +13 00:00:37,984 --> 00:00:41,104 been doing it for over 20 years. He's currently an accessibility -16 +14 00:00:41,104 --> 00:00:44,225 engineer at WebstaurantStore. And he's also a member of the -17 +15 00:00:44,225 --> 00:00:46,624 -Worldwide Web Consortium. Also +worldwide web consortium. Also known as W3C, doing work -18 +16 00:00:46,624 --> 00:00:49,023 updating -19 +17 00:00:49,024 --> 00:00:53,104 their web content accessibility guidelines. Todd also hosts a -20 +18 00:00:53,104 --> 00:00:55,804 -podcast called Front End +podcast called the Front End Nerdery, so once you're done -21 +19 00:00:55,804 --> 00:00:58,125 listening to this episode, head over there and give that one a -22 +20 00:00:58,145 --> 00:01:01,445 listen. We had a great time talking with Todd and hearing -23 +21 00:01:01,445 --> 00:01:02,839 about his long journey in tech, how and why he developed a -24 +22 00:01:02,839 --> 00:01:04,233 career -25 +23 00:01:04,234 --> 00:01:07,685 focusing on accessibility and shared with us about what -26 +24 00:01:07,775 --> 00:01:10,685 accessibility means to him and what kinds of things all -27 +25 00:01:10,685 --> 00:01:12,814 developers can do to ensure their work is accessible by -28 +26 00:01:12,814 --> 00:01:14,943 everyone. I -29 +27 00:01:14,944 --> 00:01:15,905 know you're going to enjoy it. -30 +28 00:01:24,066 --> 00:01:26,676 Bekah: We start every episode of the podcast. Like we start every -31 +29 00:01:26,676 --> 00:01:30,605 Virtual Coffee. We introduce ourselves with our name, where -32 +30 00:01:30,605 --> 00:01:32,700 we're from, what we do and a random check-in question. -33 +31 00:01:32,700 --> 00:01:34,795 Today's -34 +32 00:01:34,816 --> 00:01:40,215 question is what famous artist, dead or alive, or you want to -35 +33 00:01:40,215 --> 00:01:45,813 paint your portrait. We hope you enjoy this episode. name is -36 +34 00:01:45,813 --> 00:01:49,575 Bekah. I am a front end developer from a small town in -37 +35 00:01:49,575 --> 00:01:53,337 Ohio, and if -38 +36 00:01:53,399 --> 00:01:57,509 I could have one person paint my portrait, I, when I was in -39 +37 00:01:57,599 --> 00:01:59,684 college, Georgia, there was like big Georgia O'Keeffe paintings -40 +38 00:01:59,684 --> 00:02:01,769 or -41 +39 00:02:02,489 --> 00:02:06,478 replicas in the hallways of my department. And I always loved -42 +40 00:02:06,478 --> 00:02:09,143 -them. I know that's not what, -she doesn't paint people, but I +them. I know that's not what she +doesn't paint people, but I -43 +41 00:02:09,143 --> 00:02:11,808 think -44 +42 00:02:11,808 --> 00:02:16,038 it would be cool to see how I would be represented by her. So -45 +43 00:02:16,188 --> 00:02:17,329 I'm going to go with Georgia -O'Keeffe. +O'Keeffe -46 +44 00:02:19,144 --> 00:02:21,573 -Dan: Hi, I'm Dan I'm a front end -developer in Cleveland, +Dan: Um, hi, I'm Dan I'm a front +end developer in Cleveland, -47 +45 00:02:21,573 --> 00:02:24,002 Ohio, -48 +46 00:02:24,093 --> 00:02:27,693 -and, does it have to be famous -person? +and, um, does it have to be +famous person? -49 +47 00:02:27,693 --> 00:02:28,463 Bekah: Did I say famous? -50 +48 00:02:28,463 --> 00:02:29,403 Dan: I, it said famous in the question. -51 +49 00:02:29,433 --> 00:02:30,968 Bekah: I did. but now like just take it out. -52 +50 00:02:31,354 --> 00:02:33,393 -Dan: I mean, Kate, one of my +Dan: I mean, uh, Kate, one of my good friends at Kate Brideau -53 +51 00:02:33,393 --> 00:02:35,432 from -54 +52 00:02:35,433 --> 00:02:39,033 -college, I would say that would -be the person. That'd +college, um, I would say that +would be the person. Um, that'd -55 +53 00:02:39,033 --> 00:02:42,213 be famous. I don't, I don't really know a lot of famous -56 -00:02:42,943 --> 00:02:43,623 -painter names. I mean, except -for like the really famous ones, - -57 -00:02:43,623 --> 00:02:44,303 -you +54 +00:02:42,943 --> 00:02:44,303 +names. I mean, except for like +the really famous ones, you -58 +55 00:02:44,303 --> 00:02:45,663 know, -59 +56 00:02:45,693 --> 00:02:50,503 and that seems like a boring -answer. Maybe have Raphael, +answer. Um, maybe have Raphael, -60 +57 00:02:50,524 --> 00:02:52,743 -but not the, not the artist the +but not the, not the artist that ninja turtle. -61 +58 00:02:53,614 --> 00:02:54,204 -Bekah: Or my son +Bekah: Or my -62 +59 00:02:55,324 --> 00:02:58,644 Dan: Yeah. Well it's well, sure. There's there's that too. Yeah. -63 -00:02:58,683 --> 00:02:59,563 +60 +00:02:58,683 --> 00:03:00,443 Any Raphael really? I'll take, -take any version. - -64 -00:02:59,563 --> 00:03:00,443 -Bekah: Sounds +uh, take any version. Sounds -65 +61 00:03:00,443 --> 00:03:02,203 like -66 +62 00:03:02,204 --> 00:03:02,743 a good choice. -67 +63 00:03:05,588 --> 00:03:09,818 -Todd Libby: And I'm Todd Libby. -I am a front end developer and +Todd: And I'm Todd Libby. I am a +front end developer and -68 +64 00:03:09,818 --> 00:03:15,968 accessibility engineer currently in Phoenix, Arizona. And I guess -69 +65 00:03:16,959 --> 00:03:25,429 my artist would be, I dunno, he was really unique. So I guess I -70 +66 00:03:25,429 --> 00:03:27,868 would say Salvador Dali. -71 +67 00:03:28,899 --> 00:03:29,519 Bekah: That's cool. -72 +68 00:03:29,718 --> 00:03:30,258 Dan: That'd be a good one. -73 +69 00:03:31,449 --> 00:03:32,853 -Bekah: There's anytime somebody -is from Phoenix, I +Bekah: There's um, anytime +somebody is from Phoenix, I -74 +70 00:03:32,853 --> 00:03:34,257 think -75 +71 00:03:34,258 --> 00:03:36,268 of a short story that I read -from Sherman Alexie. "This Is +from Sherman Alexie. This is -76 +72 00:03:36,268 --> 00:03:38,278 -What It +what it -77 +73 00:03:38,278 --> 00:03:41,998 -Means To Say Phoenix, Arizona." +means to say Phoenix, Arizona. And I remember nothing about the -78 +74 00:03:41,998 --> 00:03:43,618 short story except for the title. And it's just -79 +75 00:03:43,618 --> 00:03:45,238 automatically, -80 -00:03:45,239 --> 00:03:47,459 -that what comes into my mind. So -if you haven't, read it, check - -81 -00:03:47,459 --> 00:03:49,679 -it out +76 +00:03:45,239 --> 00:03:49,679 +that's my mind. So if you +haven't, read it, check it out -82 +77 00:03:49,679 --> 00:03:51,179 and then remind me what it was about. -83 +78 00:03:51,609 --> 00:03:55,028 Todd: I haven't, but I will look that up. Definitely. I'm -84 +79 00:03:55,028 --> 00:03:58,688 originally from Portland Maine. So of course everybody knows me -85 +80 00:03:58,688 --> 00:04:00,549 because of the lobster roll thing. So. -86 +81 00:04:01,554 --> 00:04:05,514 Bekah: Yes, Todd is all about the lobsters and in our Virtual -87 +82 00:04:05,514 --> 00:04:10,883 Coffee Slack, he always uses the lobster emoji to respond to -88 +83 00:04:10,883 --> 00:04:12,608 people. And so we just automatically recognize that -89 +84 00:04:12,608 --> 00:04:14,333 it's -90 +85 00:04:14,334 --> 00:04:18,444 -Todd. So it's like he- he has +Todd. So it's like he, he has claimed that emoji and it's one -91 +86 00:04:18,444 --> 00:04:19,553 of the greatest things ever. -92 +87 00:04:20,303 --> 00:04:22,803 Dan: It's really cool. And it's just like, you see the lobster -93 +88 00:04:22,803 --> 00:04:24,394 emoji pop up. You're like, oh, cool. Todd's here. -94 +89 00:04:26,093 --> 00:04:28,255 -Bekah: I just think it's- it's -funny, like when- when new +Bekah: I just think it's it's +funny, like when, when new -95 +90 00:04:28,255 --> 00:04:30,417 people -96 +91 00:04:30,418 --> 00:04:33,538 come into Virtual Coffee and then they also click the lobster -97 +92 00:04:33,538 --> 00:04:34,069 emoji. So. -98 +93 00:04:34,069 --> 00:04:36,749 Dan: I mean I always click it. I mean, I don't first, you know -99 +94 00:04:36,749 --> 00:04:37,963 -what I mean? But like, it's, -it's like high fiving Todd, +what I mean? But like, um, it's, +it's like high five and Todd, -100 +95 00:04:37,963 --> 00:04:39,177 you -101 +96 00:04:39,178 --> 00:04:43,559 know, it's like celebrating the Toddness of it. -102 +97 00:04:44,363 --> 00:04:46,343 -Todd: the virtual-virtual high +Todd: the virtual virtual high five, -103 +98 00:04:46,798 --> 00:04:47,459 Dan: That's right. -104 +99 00:04:47,848 --> 00:04:48,983 Bekah: Right. And it can be about all sorts of different -105 +100 00:04:48,983 --> 00:04:50,118 things. -106 +101 00:04:50,119 --> 00:04:51,874 Like somebody could post a question that they have, and -107 +102 00:04:51,874 --> 00:04:53,629 then -108 +103 00:04:53,629 --> 00:04:56,869 like, there's a lobster emoji. It's not about lobster. Although -109 +104 00:04:56,959 --> 00:04:59,059 if I had a question about lobster, I would definitely ask -110 +105 00:04:59,059 --> 00:04:59,658 Todd first. -111 +106 00:05:02,963 --> 00:05:04,494 Todd: I've got a million no one answers. -112 +107 00:05:05,838 --> 00:05:08,048 Bekah: I feel like that's a separate podcast episode. -113 +108 00:05:08,048 --> 00:05:08,168 Todd: Yes. -114 +109 00:05:08,209 --> 00:05:09,189 Dan: Does it have to be though? -115 +110 00:05:09,548 --> 00:05:13,968 Bekah: Thank you so much for being here with us. Todd, we -116 +111 00:05:14,358 --> 00:05:18,559 always like to start with the origin story. How did you get to -117 +112 00:05:18,588 --> 00:05:20,403 where you are today? So if you. want to take us through that -118 +113 00:05:20,403 --> 00:05:22,218 path -119 +114 00:05:22,309 --> 00:05:22,488 -would be awesome. +would be. -120 +115 00:05:23,423 --> 00:05:27,173 Todd: Yeah. Oh boy. That's a -long one. I'll give you the +long one. Um, I'll give you the -121 +116 00:05:27,173 --> 00:05:32,824 abridged version. I'm nine years old. I started on a Commodore -122 +117 00:05:32,824 --> 00:05:38,463 -PET. In school and then +PET. Um, in school and then gradually worked my way up to a -123 -00:05:38,463 --> 00:05:40,848 +118 +00:05:38,463 --> 00:05:43,233 Commodore 64, where I learned -BASIC, a lot of different - -124 -00:05:40,848 --> 00:05:43,233 -flavors +BASIC a lot of different flavors -125 +119 00:05:43,233 --> 00:05:50,343 -of BASIC, and was just, you +of BASIC, um, and was just, you know, it was just a hobby of -126 +120 00:05:50,343 --> 00:05:55,803 -course at that point. But, what -was it about 1999? I +course at that point. But, um, +what was it about 1999? Um, I -127 +121 00:05:55,803 --> 00:06:01,263 had -128 +122 00:06:01,264 --> 00:06:09,139 a. What was it? A 386 desktop, IBM computer. And I started to -129 +123 00:06:09,139 --> 00:06:12,153 learn HTML and this was before CSS. So that is the indication -130 +124 00:06:12,153 --> 00:06:15,167 of -131 +125 00:06:15,168 --> 00:06:23,178 how old I am and JavaScript was -just kicking around. I +just kicking around. Um, I -132 +126 00:06:23,178 --> 00:06:25,323 started learning how to design websites using Front Page -133 +127 00:06:25,323 --> 00:06:27,468 Express -134 +128 00:06:27,499 --> 00:06:35,103 in Internet Explorer, three and four. And just, it went from -135 +129 00:06:35,103 --> 00:06:44,733 -there. Programming was cool. I -used to do, in BASIC on a +there. Um, programming was cool. +I used to do, um, in BASIC on a -136 +130 00:06:44,733 --> 00:06:49,564 Commodore I would program. If -anybody remembers those, "Choose +anybody remembers those, choose -137 -00:06:49,564 --> 00:06:50,786 -Your Own Adventure" books from -way back in the day. I- I used - -138 -00:06:50,786 --> 00:06:52,008 -Dan: Oh yeah. +131 +00:06:49,564 --> 00:06:52,009 +your own adventure books from +way back in the day. I, I used -139 +132 00:06:52,009 --> 00:06:54,454 -Todd: To +to -140 +133 00:06:54,454 --> 00:07:01,863 -program a text-based, Pretty +program a text-based, uh, Pretty much copied and I hope no one's -141 -00:07:01,863 --> 00:07:03,400 +134 +00:07:01,863 --> 00:07:04,938 listening from that company, -[laughter] but, I- I used - -142 -00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:04,937 -to, just to +but, um, I, I used to, just to -143 +135 00:07:04,938 --> 00:07:08,013 just -144 +136 00:07:08,014 --> 00:07:13,399 practice, I would just. Code those books into a, into a -145 +137 00:07:13,399 --> 00:07:18,468 text-based game on Commodore 64. And that's really what got me -146 +138 00:07:18,468 --> 00:07:22,249 started because I was living in -a very rural area in- in New +a very rural area in, in New -147 +139 00:07:22,249 --> 00:07:28,009 -England. And, there wasn't much -to do so except for +England. And, uh, there wasn't +much to do so except for -148 +140 00:07:28,038 --> 00:07:34,488 programming at that point. So skip ahead to today, or when I -149 +141 00:07:34,488 --> 00:07:40,548 started professionally and I was -22 years ago. And I started, +22 years ago. And I started, um, -150 +142 00:07:41,538 --> 00:07:44,689 -I read Jeffrey Zeldman's book, -"Designing with Web Standards" +I read Jeffrey Zeldman his book, +Designing with Web Standards -151 +143 00:07:45,168 --> 00:07:49,788 instantly got hooked into web -standards, progressive +standards, uh, progressive -152 +144 00:07:49,788 --> 00:07:52,038 enhancement accessibility. And it just, you know, took off to -153 +145 00:07:52,038 --> 00:07:54,288 the -154 +146 00:07:54,288 --> 00:07:59,449 point where it is today, where I'm in the field that I enjoy -155 +147 00:07:59,478 --> 00:08:01,478 being in, and that's accessibility. -156 +148 00:08:04,269 --> 00:08:07,298 Dan: I think that's awesome. I, -and I- I love that book too. And - -157 -00:08:08,499 --> 00:08:11,664 -Jeffery Zeldman I have been, so -22 years ago is what, 99, +and I, I love that book too. And -158 -00:08:11,664 --> 00:08:14,829 -2000 +149 +00:08:08,499 --> 00:08:14,829 +Zeldman I have been, um, so 22 +years ago what, 99, 2000 -159 +150 00:08:14,829 --> 00:08:19,478 something like that, know? And I think I got into, I mean, I was -160 +151 00:08:19,478 --> 00:08:21,748 starting to make something around then and really. Got a -161 +152 00:08:21,748 --> 00:08:24,018 lot more -162 +153 00:08:24,019 --> 00:08:27,588 into it a couple of years later. -But was with the web +Um, but was with the web -163 +154 00:08:27,588 --> 00:08:28,713 standards, you know, movement and everything like that. And -164 +155 00:08:28,713 --> 00:08:29,838 I've -165 +156 00:08:29,838 --> 00:08:31,953 -been, you know, and similarly -front-end focused for +been, uh, you know, and +similarly front-end focused for -166 +157 00:08:31,953 --> 00:08:34,068 a long -167 +158 00:08:34,068 --> 00:08:35,463 -time. And, one of us was just -one of the reasons I was +time. And, um, one of us was +just one of the reasons I was -168 +159 00:08:35,463 --> 00:08:36,858 very -169 -00:08:36,859 --> 00:08:37,901 -excited to have you on this -podcast and to kind of get to - -170 -00:08:37,901 --> 00:08:38,943 -get to hang +160 +00:08:36,859 --> 00:08:38,943 +excited to have you podcast and +to kind of get to get to hang -171 +161 00:08:38,943 --> 00:08:41,027 out -172 +162 00:08:41,028 --> 00:08:42,288 -with a little bit more. +with a little bit more. Um, -173 +163 00:08:42,318 --> 00:08:42,438 Todd: Yeah. -174 +164 00:08:43,879 --> 00:08:49,428 -Dan: It's so, know, on front end -and focusing on +Dan: It's uh, so, know, on front +end and focusing on -175 +165 00:08:49,428 --> 00:08:54,303 -accessibility, things like that. -I mean, what career +accessibility, um, things like +that. I mean, what career -176 +166 00:08:54,303 --> 00:08:56,313 opportunities has that like presented you from, you know, -177 +167 00:08:56,313 --> 00:08:59,073 starting, you don't need to like list every single one or -178 +168 00:08:59,073 --> 00:09:01,433 -whatever, but like run- run us +whatever, but like run, run us through a little bit of how -179 -00:09:01,443 --> 00:09:02,665 -that's been being like, front -end and especially - -180 -00:09:02,665 --> 00:09:03,887 -accessibility, you +169 +00:09:01,443 --> 00:09:03,888 +that's been being like, uh, +front end and accessibility, you -181 +170 00:09:03,888 --> 00:09:06,333 know, -182 +171 00:09:06,364 --> 00:09:08,734 -a specialist, for whatever that -means for you- You +a specialist, um, for whatever +that means for you. Uh, you -183 +172 00:09:08,734 --> 00:09:11,104 know, -184 +173 00:09:11,124 --> 00:09:12,163 run it through a little bit, -like how that's been finding- +like how that's been finding, -185 +174 00:09:12,163 --> 00:09:13,202 finding -186 +175 00:09:13,744 --> 00:09:14,973 work and finding people that care about that sort of thing. -187 +176 +00:09:14,973 --> 00:09:16,202 +Um, + +177 00:09:16,869 --> 00:09:18,564 Bekah: Can I just jump into, if you can just provide some -188 +178 00:09:18,564 --> 00:09:20,259 context -189 +179 00:09:20,259 --> 00:09:22,764 -for what- what does +for what, what does accessibility mean and how does -190 +180 00:09:22,764 --> 00:09:25,269 that work as -191 +181 00:09:25,269 --> 00:09:26,048 part of a job? -192 +182 00:09:27,379 --> 00:09:30,244 -Todd: Okay. To address what it's -accessibility mean, +Todd: Okay. Um, to address what +it's accessibility mean, uh, -193 +183 00:09:30,244 --> 00:09:33,109 I'll -194 +184 00:09:33,109 --> 00:09:38,708 address that first and that is making the web equal and -195 +185 00:09:38,708 --> 00:09:42,634 -accessible for everybody. It +accessible for everybody. Um, it just doesn't have to be a -196 +186 00:09:42,634 --> 00:09:44,989 disability. It can be, you know, -somebody in, I'll use this +somebody in I'll use this -197 +187 00:09:44,989 --> 00:09:47,344 example -198 +188 00:09:47,673 --> 00:09:50,763 in a very rural area who has a -3G phone. And, you know, it's +3g phone. And, you know, it's -199 +189 00:09:50,763 --> 00:09:53,853 not a -200 +190 00:09:53,854 --> 00:09:57,484 very fast connection is to, you know, what we have these days -201 +191 00:09:57,484 --> 00:10:04,714 with our shiny new iPhones and -stuff like that and then +stuff like that. Um, and then -202 +192 00:10:04,714 --> 00:10:10,188 accessibility. Somebody in accessibility would basically, -203 +193 00:10:10,278 --> 00:10:16,038 -not only advocate, but don't in -my daily routine of doing +um, not only advocate, but don't +in my daily routine of doing -204 +194 00:10:16,068 --> 00:10:19,353 auditing on websites. It's just -checking to see if, Sites +checking to see if, uh, Sites -205 +195 00:10:19,353 --> 00:10:22,638 are -206 +196 00:10:22,639 --> 00:10:27,619 accessible if they're, you know, -if they should be failing, +if they should be failing, um, -207 +197 00:10:27,918 --> 00:10:32,239 web content, accessibility guidelines WCAG is how I -208 +198 00:10:32,298 --> 00:10:33,843 pronounce it. There's many different pronunciations to -209 +199 00:10:33,843 --> 00:10:35,388 that, -210 +200 00:10:35,389 --> 00:10:46,489 -but, the, you know, and you -know, there's different, +but, um, um, the, um, you know, +and you know, there's different, -211 +201 00:10:46,489 --> 00:10:50,619 I guess. Levels of how people will do an audit. Like, you -212 +202 00:10:50,619 --> 00:10:54,749 know, -213 +203 00:10:55,558 --> 00:10:58,048 -you can do, you know, A and AA +you can do, you know, a and AA as far as the levels. So there's -214 +204 00:10:58,048 --> 00:11:00,538 -A, +a -215 +205 00:11:00,568 --> 00:11:06,058 -AA, and AAA, a lot of people I +AA and AAA, a lot of people I find don't do AAA, because it's -216 +206 00:11:06,058 --> 00:11:08,593 too stringent and it's also, you don't have to go that far in -217 +207 00:11:08,593 --> 00:11:11,128 most -218 +208 00:11:11,129 --> 00:11:17,224 -cases. but. It's just auditing, -making sure sites are +cases. Um, but. It's just +auditing, making sure sites are -219 +209 00:11:17,224 --> 00:11:22,984 -accessible in, creating a report -for a client and then +accessible in, um, creating a +report for a client and then -220 +210 00:11:23,043 --> 00:11:25,098 telling them here's what's wrong. Here's how you need to -221 +211 00:11:25,098 --> 00:11:27,153 fix it. -222 +212 00:11:27,214 --> 00:11:32,553 This doesn't, you know, adhere -to the guidelines and, +to the guidelines and, um, -223 +213 00:11:32,583 --> 00:11:37,803 recommendations for best -practices as well. And, You +practices as well. And, um, You -224 +214 00:11:37,803 --> 00:11:40,953 know, looking at code and, you know, always looking at HTML and -225 +215 00:11:40,953 --> 00:11:46,594 CSS because CSS too has a strong -effect on accessibility and, +effect on accessibility and, uh, -226 +216 00:11:47,043 --> 00:11:51,464 -that's what the job entails. and -Dan, what was your question? +that's what the job entails. Um, +and Dan, what was your question? -227 +217 00:11:52,369 --> 00:11:53,463 Dan: Alright, I guess my -question was, you know, +question was, um, you know, -228 +218 00:11:53,463 --> 00:11:54,557 -it's- it's a +it's, it's a -229 +219 00:11:54,558 --> 00:11:57,568 sort of. I don't know if non-traditional is the right -230 +220 00:11:57,568 --> 00:12:01,019 word, but, you know, being a specialist really in any regard, -231 +221 00:12:01,078 --> 00:12:03,163 -is- is a choice, you know, and -can limit your +um, is, uh, is a choice, you +know, and can limit your -232 +222 00:12:03,163 --> 00:12:05,248 options, -233 +223 00:12:05,249 --> 00:12:09,208 but like also what you want to -do. Right. and so I, my +do. Right. Um, and so I, my -234 +224 00:12:09,208 --> 00:12:13,048 question was more like, how has -it been, on your career +it been, uh, on your career -235 +225 00:12:13,048 --> 00:12:15,568 journey? You know, being a specialist, especially in the -236 +226 00:12:15,568 --> 00:12:16,948 accessibility world, -237 +227 00:12:17,803 --> 00:12:22,543 -Todd: Right. it's been a +Todd: Right. Um, it's been a challenge lately in, I would say -238 +228 00:12:22,543 --> 00:12:30,793 the past. Five, maybe 10 years. -because not a lot of people, +Um, because not a lot of people, -239 +229 00:12:30,793 --> 00:12:33,464 not a lot of companies were looking for accessibility -240 +230 00:12:33,464 --> 00:12:39,764 -specialists. not until I've +specialists. Um, not until I've pretty much noticed this year. A -241 +231 00:12:39,764 --> 00:12:43,333 lot of companies are now looking for accessibility specialists -242 +232 00:12:43,333 --> 00:12:47,668 because companies are getting sued. And they don't want to get -243 +233 00:12:47,668 --> 00:12:53,908 sued. That's that's the bottom line. So my professional journey -244 +234 00:12:53,908 --> 00:13:00,239 -had been, I worked, I started, I -did a website for +had been, I worked, uh, I +started, I did a website for -245 +235 00:13:00,239 --> 00:13:07,769 -somebody I knew back in, new -England, Maine. And, it was +somebody I knew back in, uh, new +England, Maine. And, um, it was -246 +236 00:13:07,769 --> 00:13:10,288 -just a site. And then from +just a small. And then from there I got, you know, a few -247 +237 00:13:10,288 --> 00:13:12,807 different -248 +238 00:13:13,019 --> 00:13:16,859 jobs doing websites. And then from there I was like, well, you -249 +239 00:13:16,859 --> 00:13:18,794 know, this thing's taken off. I'm going to do the I'm going to -250 +240 00:13:18,794 --> 00:13:20,729 go -251 +241 00:13:20,739 --> 00:13:26,321 the freelance route. So that's what I did. And. Up until 2015, -252 +242 00:13:26,321 --> 00:13:31,903 I -253 +243 00:13:31,903 --> 00:13:36,644 -was a freelance, developer, I -guess you could say I got into +was a freelance, uh, developer, +I guess you could say I got into -254 +244 00:13:36,644 --> 00:13:42,313 -WordPress, PHP development. And -then, I was hired by a +WordPress, uh, PHP development. +And then, um, I was hired by a -255 +245 00:13:42,313 --> 00:13:51,403 company to do their website and -their SASS, their SASS, +their SAS, um, their SAS, uh, -256 +246 00:13:52,663 --> 00:14:01,124 site, I guess. It was a, a thing where you log in and it wasn't a -257 +247 00:14:01,124 --> 00:14:06,583 -public facing site. And, from -there it would be- been +public facing site. And, um, +from there it would be been -258 +248 00:14:06,583 --> 00:14:12,042 about, I -259 +249 00:14:12,043 --> 00:14:14,368 don't know. I think I counted over 2000 resumes that I had -260 +250 00:14:14,368 --> 00:14:16,693 sent -261 +251 00:14:16,693 --> 00:14:23,323 out to companies in 20 years in. One company hired me. And that -262 +252 00:14:23,323 --> 00:14:28,994 was that company that I worked -for in 2015 to, just, +for in 2015 to, uh, just, uh, -263 +253 00:14:29,024 --> 00:14:34,033 last year as a matter of fact. And then finally somebody took a -264 +254 00:14:34,033 --> 00:14:36,823 chance on me that would have been Nobility. I was hired by -265 +255 00:14:36,823 --> 00:14:43,903 -Nobility, in March and March or -April. Geez, it's been over +Nobility, uh, in March and March +or April. Geez, it's been over -266 +256 00:14:43,903 --> 00:14:46,033 -six months, but, +six months, but, um, -267 +257 00:14:46,889 --> 00:14:47,818 -Dan: What is time anyway? +Dan: What is time anyway. -268 -00:14:48,418 --> 00:14:49,888 +258 +00:14:48,418 --> 00:14:51,359 Todd: well, I don't even know -[laughter] anymore. I'm in a - -269 -00:14:49,888 --> 00:14:51,358 -different time +anymore. I'm in a different time -270 +259 00:14:51,359 --> 00:14:57,928 zone now, so that's messed me up -too. but Nobility gave me +too. Uh, but no ability gave me -271 +260 00:14:57,928 --> 00:15:02,458 a, you know, an opportunity and very grateful for that -272 +261 00:15:02,458 --> 00:15:09,178 -opportunity with them and, a lot -of great people in Nobility +opportunity with them and, um, a +lot of great people in Nobility -273 +262 00:15:09,208 --> 00:15:12,238 -that work for the company. +that work for the company. Um, everybody is a matter of fact -274 +263 00:15:12,238 --> 00:15:15,268 and -275 +264 00:15:15,298 --> 00:15:17,578 they do some really good stuff as far as accessibility goes. -276 +265 00:15:17,578 --> 00:15:19,858 And, -277 +266 00:15:19,918 --> 00:15:24,127 -as of October 1st, I will be, on -the, +um, as of October 1st, I will +be, um, on the, uh, -278 +267 00:15:24,127 --> 00:15:28,336 WebstaurantStore -279 +268 00:15:28,466 --> 00:15:32,677 team as an accessibility -engineer. So I look forward +engineer. Uh, so I look forward -280 -00:15:32,677 --> 00:15:34,000 +269 +00:15:32,677 --> 00:15:34,366 to that. Yeah. -281 -00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:34,366 -Dan: Honestly - -282 +270 00:15:34,866 --> 00:15:37,506 Bekah: Can you talk a little bit about what you'll be doing in -283 +271 00:15:37,506 --> 00:15:39,756 that role there? Maybe dive into -a little bit of details. +a little bit of detail. -284 +272 00:15:41,871 --> 00:15:46,251 -Todd: for right now, all I know -is it's basically doing the +Todd: Um, for right now, all I +know is it's basically doing the -285 +273 00:15:46,251 --> 00:15:52,192 same thing I do now and that's -auditing, their product for +auditing, um, their product for -286 +274 00:15:52,192 --> 00:16:04,251 -their, website. I know they use, -they use React and I think +their, uh, website. I know they +use, they use react and I think -287 +275 00:16:04,282 --> 00:16:10,042 -it was .Net. So that I'll be in -that, environment. +it was .net. So that I'll be in +that, um, environment. -288 +276 00:16:10,782 --> 00:16:13,182 Bekah: So like when you do an audit, where do you start with -289 +277 00:16:13,182 --> 00:16:13,272 that? -290 +278 00:16:14,961 --> 00:16:18,216 Todd: So when I do an audit, I -do automated, checks and +do automated, uh, checks and -291 +279 00:16:18,216 --> 00:16:21,471 scans -292 +280 00:16:21,471 --> 00:16:27,772 first. So I use stuff like the -WAVE extension, The Axe, I +WAVE extension, um, the axe, I -293 +281 00:16:28,131 --> 00:16:32,601 now wait until the end to use -the Axe-Core extension in the +the axe-core extension in the -294 +282 00:16:32,601 --> 00:16:40,297 -browser. Things like, there's a -command line called +browser. Um, Things like, uh, +there's a command line called -295 +283 00:16:40,297 --> 00:16:48,726 -Pa11y. So it's PA one, one Y, -there's that I use, does +Pa11y. So it's PA one, one Y uh, +there's that I use, um, does -296 +284 00:16:48,756 --> 00:16:55,057 Bookmarklets from Ian Lloyd and Paul J. Adam that I use to also -297 +285 00:16:55,326 --> 00:17:01,206 -do checks. Let's see what else? -There's Microsoft +do checks. Um, Let's see what +else? There's Microsoft -298 +286 00:17:01,236 --> 00:17:07,267 Accessibility Insights, which is -a great tool to use. what +a great tool to use. Um, what -299 +287 00:17:07,267 --> 00:17:15,517 -else? And I said, Axe, color, -contrast checks. I use, the +else? And I said, axe, color, +contrast checks. I use, um, the -300 +288 00:17:15,517 --> 00:17:19,626 Firefox accessibility dev tools, the accessibility panels and -301 +289 00:17:19,626 --> 00:17:22,911 those, and then I move on to, -manual testing. So. mouse +um, manual testing. So. mouse -302 +290 00:17:22,911 --> 00:17:26,196 only, -303 +291 00:17:26,961 --> 00:17:33,112 -keyboard only I will do it, +um, keyboard only I will do it, which goes back to color -304 +292 00:17:33,112 --> 00:17:35,842 contrast. I'll do the squint test. So I'll just look at the -305 +293 00:17:35,842 --> 00:17:39,352 site while I'm squinting at it and see if, you know, I can make -306 +294 00:17:39,352 --> 00:17:45,951 -out anything cause, that I was -taught not too long ago. So, - -307 -00:17:46,551 --> 00:17:49,626 -Dan: I like that - -308 -00:17:46,551 --> 00:17:49,000 -Todd: And screen readers, I -will use +out anything cause that I was +taught not too long ago. So, um, -309 -00:17:49,626 --> 00:17:52,000 -screen readers. So for Mac +295 +00:17:46,551 --> 00:17:52,701 +and uh, screen readers, I will +use screen readers. So for Mac -310 +296 00:17:52,701 --> 00:17:58,192 there's Voiceover. And it's best to use Voiceover in Safari -311 +297 00:17:58,221 --> 00:18:01,686 because the native, you know, -Mac app and everything, and +Mac app and everything, um, and -312 +298 00:18:01,686 --> 00:18:05,151 -NVDA +VDA -313 +299 00:18:05,332 --> 00:18:10,071 -and Jaws on a Windows. And, if, -and it's very, very rare, +and Jaws on a Windows. And, um, +if, and it's very, very rare, -314 +300 00:18:10,071 --> 00:18:14,810 but -315 +301 00:18:14,811 --> 00:18:21,067 if somebody says, oh, you know, we have Linux users. So I will -316 -00:18:21,067 --> 00:18:22,761 -test on what and it's called -Orca for Linux and, yeah, - -317 -00:18:22,761 --> 00:18:24,455 -those +302 +00:18:21,067 --> 00:18:24,456 +test on what it's called Orca +for Linux and, um, yeah, those -318 +303 00:18:24,456 --> 00:18:27,845 are -319 +304 00:18:27,846 --> 00:18:31,041 -pretty much, if I remember them -all correctly, those +pretty much, uh, if I remember +them all correctly, um, those -320 +305 00:18:31,041 --> 00:18:34,236 are -321 +306 00:18:34,237 --> 00:18:35,317 -the tools I use. Ha Ha. +the tools I use. -322 +307 00:18:36,207 --> 00:18:38,366 Dan: That's. Yeah, that's awesome. It's very extensive. I -323 +308 00:18:38,366 --> 00:18:39,926 was just writing all them down so that -324 +309 00:18:39,997 --> 00:18:42,176 Bekah: So as I well, the link to those show notes. -325 +310 00:18:42,471 --> 00:18:44,136 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And so, so like day to day, I mean, I -326 +311 00:18:44,136 --> 00:18:45,801 know -327 +312 00:18:45,801 --> 00:18:47,661 you haven't started yet, but like in your, in your role, will -328 +313 00:18:47,661 --> 00:18:49,521 it be -329 +314 00:18:49,882 --> 00:18:53,541 mostly doing audits after the fact? Or like, will you be -330 +315 00:18:53,541 --> 00:18:54,876 interfacing with, you know, I'm not sure what they do, what -331 +316 00:18:54,876 --> 00:18:56,211 they, -332 +317 00:18:56,241 --> 00:18:59,092 -what- what they make or anything +what, what they make or anything like that, but you know, like -333 +318 00:18:59,092 --> 00:19:03,142 -where in the process are you- -are you, doing like +where in the process are you, +are you, uh, doing like -334 +319 00:19:03,142 --> 00:19:06,336 -accessibility? you know, helping -the team with, with this +accessibility? Uh, you know, +helping the team with, with this -335 +320 00:19:06,336 --> 00:19:10,446 stuff, like, know, audits for me imply, and I know this isn't -336 +321 00:19:10,446 --> 00:19:13,537 always true, but when I think of it as something, oh, something's -337 -00:19:13,537 --> 00:19:15,172 +322 +00:19:13,537 --> 00:19:16,807 done, now we do an audit on it. -You know what I mean? +You know what I mean? but I was -338 -00:19:15,172 --> 00:19:16,807 -Dan: but I was - -339 +323 00:19:16,807 --> 00:19:18,936 wondering if, and I'm sure that's an important part. I was -340 +324 00:19:18,936 --> 00:19:21,066 -wondering if there's, places +wondering if there's, um, places earlier in the process where, -341 +325 +00:19:21,066 --> 00:19:23,196 +um, + +326 00:19:23,886 --> 00:19:28,386 where, you know, you're able to interface and like, you know, -342 +327 00:19:28,866 --> 00:19:31,747 make suggestions before it, you know, as opposed to like fixing -343 +328 00:19:31,747 --> 00:19:34,576 things, but like help build something you know, the first -344 +329 00:19:34,576 --> 00:19:34,666 time. -345 +330 00:19:34,666 --> 00:19:34,997 Todd: Right. Yeah, -346 +331 00:19:35,017 --> 00:19:35,696 Dan: Does that make sense? -347 +332 00:19:36,277 --> 00:19:42,946 -Todd: yeah- yeah. I'm, I'm sure -it's going to be probably a +Todd: yeah, yeah. Um, I'm, I'm +sure it's going to be probably a -348 +333 00:19:42,946 --> 00:19:49,096 -lot of both. maybe there's -existing things on the site, +lot of both. Um, maybe there's +existing things on the site, uh, -349 +334 00:19:49,636 --> 00:19:56,416 -that need to be checked, +that need to be checked, um, components that may be being -350 +335 00:19:56,416 --> 00:20:00,561 worked on. We'll have to be checked. I mean, it's that way, -351 +336 00:20:00,561 --> 00:20:02,646 pretty much with any kind of audit. So I've had companies -352 +337 00:20:02,646 --> 00:20:04,731 come -353 +338 00:20:04,741 --> 00:20:07,946 to me and say, you know, we we've got somebody who emailed -354 +339 00:20:07,946 --> 00:20:11,151 us and -355 +340 00:20:11,152 --> 00:20:13,806 said, this isn't accessible, so we need a, an audit done and -356 +341 00:20:13,806 --> 00:20:16,460 I'll -357 +342 00:20:16,461 --> 00:20:20,287 go through the site and say, okay, I found all this. Here's -358 +343 00:20:20,287 --> 00:20:24,757 what you need to do to fix it. They'll fix it. That'll be after -359 +344 00:20:24,757 --> 00:20:28,146 the fact of course, I've had companies come in and ask me to -360 +345 00:20:28,146 --> 00:20:31,386 do consulting with their teams before the project starts to -361 +346 00:20:31,386 --> 00:20:34,626 make -362 +347 00:20:34,626 --> 00:20:37,567 sure that it gets done beforehand. Because when you do -363 +348 00:20:37,567 --> 00:20:40,836 an accessibility, when you, when you bring in accessibility from -364 +349 00:20:40,836 --> 00:20:45,146 the start of a project, it's so much easier and there's less, a -365 +350 00:20:45,146 --> 00:20:50,416 lot less stress, doing it from the very beginning, because when -366 +351 00:20:50,416 --> 00:20:53,957 you get to the end and you've got, everything is as accessible -367 +352 00:20:53,957 --> 00:20:58,336 as you can. And I'll add that nothing's a hundred percent -368 +353 00:20:58,336 --> 00:21:05,537 -accessible. it's- it's a lot +accessible. Um, it's, it's a lot easier on your teams. You know, -369 +354 00:21:05,567 --> 00:21:06,812 like I said, there's a lot less stress. You don't have to go -370 +355 00:21:06,812 --> 00:21:08,057 back -371 +356 00:21:08,057 --> 00:21:13,237 and scatter around trying to fix this, that, and the other thing -372 +357 00:21:13,656 --> 00:21:17,826 -after the fact. So, and that's -also where my advocacy +after the fact. So, um, and +that's also where my advocacy -373 +358 00:21:17,826 --> 00:21:22,086 comes in is saying, okay, if you get this done from the start, -374 +359 00:21:22,866 --> 00:21:24,741 you're going to be, it's going to be so much easier and it's -375 +360 00:21:24,741 --> 00:21:26,616 going -376 -00:21:26,616 --> 00:21:27,741 +361 +00:21:26,616 --> 00:21:28,866 to cost less money because -you're not going back. It's +you're not going to. It's going -377 -00:21:27,741 --> 00:21:28,866 -going - -378 +362 00:21:28,866 --> 00:21:31,116 to cause -379 +363 00:21:31,446 --> 00:21:33,426 a lot less stress again. And, -those are the two main +uh, those are the two main -380 +364 00:21:33,426 --> 00:21:35,406 things. -381 +365 00:21:35,767 --> 00:21:39,126 -but to answer the question, it's -going to be a little bit of +Um, but to answer the question, +it's going to be a little bit of -382 +366 00:21:39,126 --> 00:21:40,746 both. I would think, because like I said, it's usually that -383 +367 00:21:40,746 --> 00:21:42,366 way at -384 +368 00:21:42,366 --> 00:21:45,906 -the beginning, you know? +the beginning, you know? Um, -385 +369 00:21:45,906 --> 00:21:47,346 Dan: Get something to a baseline first. -386 +370 00:21:47,366 --> 00:21:51,807 -Todd: Yeah. Yeah. And- and- and +Todd: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and it's still really early in the -387 +371 00:21:51,807 --> 00:21:54,687 process, so I'm not too sure, but I know that there'll be a -388 +372 00:21:54,687 --> 00:21:57,567 lot of, -389 +373 00:21:57,626 --> 00:22:00,746 you know, checking to make sure everything's good. On the end -390 +374 00:22:00,746 --> 00:22:03,866 of, -391 +375 00:22:04,346 --> 00:22:07,047 you know, before we put this out, we need to make sure it's -392 +376 00:22:07,047 --> 00:22:09,416 accessible. So. yeah. -393 +377 00:22:10,311 --> 00:22:12,051 Bekah: As you've been working through this industry, do you -394 +378 00:22:12,051 --> 00:22:18,307 think. Is there one problem that you keep encountering over and -395 +379 00:22:18,307 --> 00:22:22,356 over, like stand out issues, things that people can just -396 +380 00:22:22,356 --> 00:22:25,656 really look at and say, all right, let's start here. -397 -00:22:26,352 --> 00:22:30,431 +381 +00:22:26,352 --> 00:22:34,511 Todd: Well, where do I begin? -It's- it's a lot, but mainly - -398 -00:22:30,431 --> 00:22:34,510 -it's +It's it's a lot, but mainly it's -399 +382 00:22:34,511 --> 00:22:42,311 -color contrast. Okay. that's the -biggest one. and, +color contrast. Okay. Um, that's +the biggest one. Um, and, uh, -400 -00:22:43,846 --> 00:22:45,256 +383 +00:22:43,846 --> 00:22:46,666 Keyboard accessibility is -another and I'll throw in a - -401 -00:22:45,256 --> 00:22:46,666 -third +another and throwing a third -402 +384 00:22:46,666 --> 00:22:49,486 one. And -403 +385 00:22:49,487 --> 00:22:52,352 -that being, ALT text on images, -the alternative text, +that being, uh, alt text on +images, the alternative text, -404 +386 +00:22:52,352 --> 00:22:55,217 +um, + +387 00:22:56,537 --> 00:23:07,217 -I've had, you know, a lot of ALT -text can be a tricky, a +I've had, you know, a lot of alt +text can be a tricky, um, uh, a -405 +388 00:23:07,217 --> 00:23:11,747 tricky thing because people think, well, I have this image. -406 +389 00:23:12,817 --> 00:23:19,477 And I need to really go into detail what that image is -407 +390 00:23:19,477 --> 00:23:21,711 conveying. If it's an informative image and you really -408 +391 00:23:21,711 --> 00:23:23,945 don't just a -409 +392 00:23:23,946 --> 00:23:31,146 short, you know, it's a purple -flower in a field, is fine. +flower in a field, um, is fine. -410 +393 00:23:31,146 --> 00:23:33,546 You don't have to go into, I've seen on Twitter because they -411 +394 00:23:33,546 --> 00:23:35,946 give -412 +395 00:23:35,946 --> 00:23:38,218 you a thousand characters for -ALT text. And I've seen this. +alt text. And I've seen this. -413 +396 00:23:38,218 --> 00:23:40,490 I've -414 +397 00:23:40,491 --> 00:23:41,892 -seen ALT text that long before. +seen alt text that long before. -415 +398 00:23:42,031 --> 00:23:43,771 -Bekah: I always wonder, like, I- +Bekah: I always wonder, like, I, I don't think I've written -416 +399 00:23:43,771 --> 00:23:45,511 enough -417 +400 00:23:45,541 --> 00:23:47,311 because I'm not even close to the 1000 and I have a thousand -418 +401 00:23:47,311 --> 00:23:49,081 to -419 +402 00:23:49,082 --> 00:23:49,531 write. -420 -00:23:49,696 --> 00:23:50,731 +403 +00:23:49,696 --> 00:23:51,766 Dan: Yeah. I always try to just -like- like, just say the joke. +like, like, just say the joker. -421 -00:23:50,731 --> 00:23:51,766 -or whateve - -422 +404 00:23:51,766 --> 00:23:53,836 I -423 +405 00:23:53,836 --> 00:23:54,961 mean, usually if I'm posting an image, it's a joke, you know, -424 +406 00:23:54,961 --> 00:23:56,086 but -425 +407 00:23:56,086 --> 00:24:00,136 like the shortest version of the joke is, you know, so I like -426 +408 00:24:00,136 --> 00:24:03,287 posted one today and it was just like guys saying thumbs up or -427 +409 00:24:03,287 --> 00:24:05,267 -something like that- that, you +something like that, that, you know, you know what I mean? like -428 +410 00:24:05,416 --> 00:24:07,111 that seems that at least seems like usually enough. I don't -429 +411 00:24:07,111 --> 00:24:08,806 need -430 +412 00:24:08,807 --> 00:24:09,436 to give the whole, -431 +413 00:24:09,557 --> 00:24:11,656 Bekah: Sometimes I just don't post because I don't know how to -432 +414 00:24:11,656 --> 00:24:15,856 describe it. Like, well, I'm not really sure that I know how to -433 +415 00:24:15,856 --> 00:24:19,336 say capture what this is doing, so we'll go, we'll go for -434 +416 00:24:19,336 --> 00:24:19,936 something else. -435 +417 00:24:20,767 --> 00:24:24,297 Todd: There's a lot of debate around how long should it be? It -436 +418 00:24:24,297 --> 00:24:27,116 shouldn't be 180 characters. Should it be a certain amount of -437 +419 00:24:27,116 --> 00:24:31,646 words, but just as long as it conveys in a short succinct, -438 +420 00:24:32,636 --> 00:24:39,086 Sentence, I guess that's fine. -and of course you have some +Um, and of course you have some -439 +421 00:24:39,176 --> 00:24:43,287 images decorative that, ya know, -it needs an empty ALT text. And +it needs an empty all text. And -440 +422 00:24:43,287 --> 00:24:47,876 that's a big one because I was just doing an audit and they had -441 +423 00:24:47,876 --> 00:24:53,547 -decorative images, but no, ALT, -no empty ALT text, which is +decorative images, but no, alt, +no empty alt text, um, which is -442 +424 00:24:53,547 --> 00:24:57,326 -just the ALT equals, you know, +just the alt equals, you know, quotes and it's, the quotes are -443 +425 00:24:57,326 --> 00:24:58,346 empty in between, -444 +426 00:24:58,961 --> 00:25:01,781 Bekah: Can you explain that? Cause that I had just recently -445 +427 00:25:01,781 --> 00:25:06,892 learned about that, but. Don't quite understand why that's the -446 +428 00:25:06,892 --> 00:25:07,471 standard. -447 +429 00:25:08,172 --> 00:25:11,757 Todd: So there's a, it tells a screen reader. There's an image -448 +430 00:25:11,757 --> 00:25:14,081 there, but it doesn't, it doesn't need it's decorative -449 +431 00:25:14,081 --> 00:25:16,405 basically. -450 +432 00:25:16,406 --> 00:25:19,237 So it just there's, there's no -need to, describe +need to, to -451 +433 00:25:19,636 --> 00:25:22,426 -Dan: ha what happens in a screen -reader? If it runs into an +Dan: ha what happens in a +screenwriter? If it runs into an -452 +434 00:25:22,426 --> 00:25:24,257 -image with no ALT attribute at +image with no alt attribute at all? -453 +435 00:25:25,297 --> 00:25:29,797 -Todd: it skips over it. So -you're loo the- the user is +Todd: Uh, it skips over it. So +you're loo the, the user is -454 +436 00:25:29,797 --> 00:25:31,326 losing information. So if there's something you're trying -455 +437 00:25:31,326 --> 00:25:32,855 to -456 +438 00:25:32,856 --> 00:25:37,567 -convey, like let's use the, +convey, like let's use the, um, like, an infographic, for -457 +439 00:25:37,656 --> 00:25:40,491 -example, and there's no ALT text +example, and there's no alt text on it. That user that's using -458 +440 00:25:40,491 --> 00:25:43,326 the -459 +441 00:25:43,326 --> 00:25:47,356 screen reader is not gonna know that it's there. -460 +442 00:25:47,997 --> 00:25:52,836 -Dan: Totally- Totally. And so in +Dan: Totally. Totally. And so in the case of a decorative image -461 +443 00:25:52,866 --> 00:25:56,317 where we don't need. It's okay. If his screen, you know, if it's -462 +444 00:25:56,317 --> 00:25:59,227 okay, if anybody skips over it, what do you know, what is the -463 +445 00:25:59,227 --> 00:26:01,446 tactical difference for a screen reader for a user on a screen -464 +446 00:26:01,446 --> 00:26:07,326 reader between empty, an image -with an like with a ALT property +with an like with a alt property -465 +447 00:26:07,326 --> 00:26:12,727 and just an empty string and an -image with ALT you know, defined +image with alt you know, defined -466 +448 00:26:12,727 --> 00:26:13,086 at all. -467 -00:26:15,707 --> 00:26:20,286 -Todd: So. if it's okay. Let's -use a logo. As an example, if - -468 -00:26:20,286 --> 00:26:24,865 -you have +449 +00:26:15,707 --> 00:26:24,866 +Todd: So. it's okay. Let's use a +logo. As an example, if you have -469 +450 00:26:25,287 --> 00:26:31,257 -empty ALT text on your logo, and +empty alt text on your logo, and it's also linked, the screen -470 +451 00:26:31,257 --> 00:26:39,116 reader will read that link and you don't want that to read it. -471 +452 00:26:39,326 --> 00:26:45,382 You don't want it to. It doesn't really need to, I mean, there's -472 +453 00:26:45,382 --> 00:26:51,352 cases where somebody may say, yeah, I want the person to know -473 +454 00:26:51,352 --> 00:26:53,901 what the logo looks like, but if -it's not really necessary, +it's not really necessary, um, -474 +455 00:26:53,901 --> 00:26:56,450 no -475 +456 00:26:56,451 --> 00:27:04,342 -ALT text, you know, it's the +alt text, you know, it's the screen reader. Won't read -476 +457 00:27:04,342 --> 00:27:07,994 anything and. As far as I know. And I'll be the first to say, -477 +458 00:27:07,994 --> 00:27:11,646 I'm -478 +459 00:27:11,646 --> 00:27:13,986 not an expert by any means with screen readers, because this is -479 +460 00:27:13,986 --> 00:27:16,326 a -480 +461 00:27:16,326 --> 00:27:19,836 lot of different stuff. I've been learning lately, but to -481 +462 00:27:19,836 --> 00:27:23,346 mine, to -482 +463 00:27:23,346 --> 00:27:30,096 my recollection, anyways, an empty. So the end. So no alt -483 +464 00:27:30,096 --> 00:27:35,872 texts. Let me get this straight. -No, ALT text, the URL will be +No, alt text, the URL will be -484 +465 00:27:35,872 --> 00:27:37,311 read to the image. -485 +466 00:27:39,307 --> 00:27:40,507 Dan: Okay. Yeah. That's the big difference. All right. That's -486 +467 00:27:40,507 --> 00:27:41,707 the -487 +468 00:27:41,707 --> 00:27:42,126 -part, I didn't know +part, I didn't -488 +469 00:27:42,422 --> 00:27:43,321 Todd: Yes. Yup. -489 -00:27:43,356 --> 00:27:48,000 -Dan: No ALT text at all, like -no, ALT property defined. When a +470 +00:27:43,356 --> 00:27:48,547 +Dan: no alt text at all, like +no, alt property defined. When a -490 +471 00:27:48,547 --> 00:27:50,797 screen reader is reading it, it'll come through normal texts -491 +472 00:27:50,826 --> 00:27:52,506 and then it'll just read like, -blah- blah- blah dot JPEG. +blah, blah, blah dot JPEG. -492 +473 00:27:52,506 --> 00:27:54,186 -Todd: Yes +Right. -493 +474 00:27:54,707 --> 00:27:55,686 -Dan: Right Okay. That's it +Okay. That's -494 +475 00:27:55,721 --> 00:27:59,892 Todd: And then the, the empty -ALT is silent. So that's. +alt is silent. So that's. -495 +476 00:27:59,961 --> 00:28:01,191 -Dan: It'll that tells it to skip +Dan: it'll that tells it to skip right over it, which is you -496 +477 00:28:01,191 --> 00:28:02,421 want. -497 +478 00:28:02,422 --> 00:28:04,432 Sometimes like, sometimes that is the preferred thing or like -498 +479 00:28:04,432 --> 00:28:06,442 the -499 +480 00:28:06,442 --> 00:28:09,652 decorative image where it's a background image or something -500 +481 00:28:09,652 --> 00:28:12,832 like that, or, background, but like, you know, sometimes it's -501 +482 00:28:12,832 --> 00:28:14,872 just used for decoration. Doesn't need to convey actually -502 +483 00:28:14,872 --> 00:28:17,352 information. and so in those cases, putting an empty, alt -503 +484 00:28:17,352 --> 00:28:19,832 like -504 +485 00:28:19,832 --> 00:28:24,862 -ALT equals, you know, empty +alt equals, you know, empty string. Is is actually very good -505 +486 00:28:24,862 --> 00:28:28,521 and much like very good for accessibility because otherwise -506 +487 00:28:28,521 --> 00:28:32,632 they're going to see probably a very long URL with dot JPEG, -507 +488 00:28:32,991 --> 00:28:34,311 which means nothing to them. Right. -508 +489 00:28:34,382 --> 00:28:35,491 Todd: Yes. Exactly. -509 +490 00:28:35,721 --> 00:28:38,211 -Dan: Oh, that's great. that's -one of those things that. +Dan: Oh, that's great. Um, +that's one of those things that. -510 +491 00:28:38,211 --> 00:28:40,701 And -511 +492 00:28:40,701 --> 00:28:44,541 I've seen a lot of people. This is a separate topic, like that, -512 +493 00:28:44,541 --> 00:28:48,711 that little, like, pick that -little bit, just- just even just +little bit, just, just even just -513 +494 00:28:48,711 --> 00:28:52,642 -ALT getting like your head +Alt getting like your head wrapped around how to deal with -514 +495 00:28:52,682 --> 00:28:56,932 -ALT- ALT texts. like you said, -makes can make a huge +alt, alt texts. Um, like you +said, mix can make a huge -515 +496 00:28:56,932 --> 00:29:00,501 difference for accessibility making a for your users. oh, -516 +497 00:29:00,501 --> 00:29:01,132 that's really cool. -517 +498 00:29:02,376 --> 00:29:03,636 Bekah: And you were talking about one of the big problems -518 +499 00:29:03,636 --> 00:29:04,896 being -519 +500 00:29:04,896 --> 00:29:09,727 color contrast. And that seems like something that could be -520 +501 00:29:09,727 --> 00:29:15,636 pretty simple to identify with a -Lighthouse audit. Can you +Lighthouse audit. Um, can you -521 +502 00:29:15,636 --> 00:29:18,606 explain what a Lighthouse audit is? And if you're like, that's -522 +503 00:29:18,606 --> 00:29:21,787 not the way to go. This other -method is better. I would +method is better. Um, I would -523 +504 00:29:21,787 --> 00:29:22,207 -love to hear as well. +love to hear that. -524 +505 00:29:23,862 --> 00:29:26,786 Todd: So, I mean, I've used Lighthouse before. I don't -525 +506 00:29:26,786 --> 00:29:29,710 really -526 +507 00:29:29,711 --> 00:29:32,186 rely on lighthouse. Lighthouse -runs off of Axe-core and which +runs off of axe-core and which -527 +508 00:29:32,186 --> 00:29:34,661 is -528 +509 00:29:34,662 --> 00:29:42,132 great, but I don't think it really gets to the root of every -529 +510 00:29:42,521 --> 00:29:49,301 -issue. And it really can't. plus -you have false positives, +issue. And it really can't. Uh, +plus you have false positives, -530 +511 00:29:49,301 --> 00:29:52,692 which is, you know, something, it, for example, I was just -531 +512 00:29:52,692 --> 00:29:55,932 talking about this on the, in -the, in the Slack, Virtual +the, in the Slack, uh, Virtual -532 +513 00:29:55,932 --> 00:29:58,699 Coffee Slack. False positives for color contrast, you know, -533 +514 00:29:58,699 --> 00:30:01,466 I've -534 +515 00:30:01,467 --> 00:30:04,737 come across instances where it will flag color, contrast -535 +516 00:30:04,737 --> 00:30:08,007 errors, -536 +517 00:30:08,007 --> 00:30:13,676 but the color contrast is far exceeds the 4.5 to one ratio. So -537 +518 00:30:14,126 --> 00:30:16,767 I don't really rely on Lighthouse. I mean, it's a good -538 +519 00:30:16,767 --> 00:30:18,701 tool. Don't get me wrong because there's that performance piece -539 +520 00:30:18,701 --> 00:30:20,635 to -540 +521 00:30:20,636 --> 00:30:25,693 -it that I really- really like, -using and, As far as, +it that I really, really like, +uh, using and, um, As far as, -541 +522 00:30:25,693 --> 00:30:30,750 you -542 +523 00:30:30,751 --> 00:30:34,301 know, it's a good tool, don't get me wrong, but I use, and I -543 +524 00:30:34,301 --> 00:30:37,851 used -544 +525 00:30:37,852 --> 00:30:40,432 to use it. I used to use it myself. I mean, I used it on my -545 +526 00:30:40,432 --> 00:30:42,801 site and was like, yeah, one hundreds. I got one hundreds -546 +527 00:30:42,801 --> 00:30:46,342 across the board and you know, -that- that virtual confetti +that, that virtual confetti -547 +528 00:30:46,342 --> 00:30:53,471 -flying everywhere. But, the -tools that I use would be, +flying everywhere. But, um, the +tools that I use would be, um, -548 +529 00:30:56,067 --> 00:30:59,711 It's a contrast hyphen ratio.com, which is Lea Verou, -549 +530 00:30:59,711 --> 00:31:03,355 -color +uh, color -550 +531 00:31:03,356 --> 00:31:06,716 -contrast site. I also use, the, -let me look, I have it on +contrast site. I also use, um, +the, let me look, I have it on -551 +532 00:31:06,716 --> 00:31:10,076 my -552 +533 00:31:10,076 --> 00:31:12,836 other machine here, the color contrast analyzer. And that is -553 +534 00:31:12,836 --> 00:31:15,596 by -554 +535 00:31:15,747 --> 00:31:18,926 The Paciello Group. So Steven Faulkner has based on the -555 +536 00:31:18,926 --> 00:31:22,105 Windows -556 +537 00:31:22,106 --> 00:31:24,131 version, the Mac iOS version was -developed by somebody else. +developed by somebody else. Uh, -557 +538 00:31:24,131 --> 00:31:26,156 I -558 +539 00:31:26,156 --> 00:31:33,926 -use that- that tool as well. and -I will provide, the link +use that, that tool as well. Um, +and I will provide, uh, the link -559 +540 00:31:33,926 --> 00:31:34,497 to that. -560 +541 00:31:35,414 --> 00:31:37,419 Bekah: This great, I'm like really looking forward, it could -561 +542 00:31:37,419 --> 00:31:40,598 diving into a lot of these resources that you are dropping -562 +543 00:31:40,598 --> 00:31:43,043 right now. Cause I think sometimes it's hard to know -563 +544 00:31:43,043 --> 00:31:45,488 where -564 +545 00:31:45,489 --> 00:31:51,068 to start. And, I think that's just a problem with teaching -565 +546 00:31:51,429 --> 00:31:54,413 developers in general. There's -not a focus on it- It's not +not a focus on it. It's not -566 +547 00:31:54,413 --> 00:31:57,397 built -567 +548 00:31:57,429 --> 00:32:07,118 -into most curriculums and, at -all. And so there's a lack of +into most curriculums and, um, +at all. And so there's a lack of -568 +549 00:32:07,118 --> 00:32:11,773 focus, I think, as a result of that. And then not knowing where -569 +550 00:32:11,773 --> 00:32:16,114 to start, or if you're with a company that doesn't look at -570 +551 00:32:16,114 --> 00:32:18,668 those things, then I think it can be, you can find yourself a -571 +552 00:32:18,668 --> 00:32:21,222 while -572 +553 00:32:21,223 --> 00:32:27,223 down the path and and not know what you should be identifying, -573 +554 00:32:27,223 --> 00:32:30,374 how you should be approaching this. And so the more that we -574 +555 00:32:30,374 --> 00:32:35,084 talk about it, I think the -better, where do you think +better, um, where do you think -575 +556 00:32:35,534 --> 00:32:39,044 people could get started if they want to learn more about -576 +557 00:32:39,044 --> 00:32:39,403 -accessiblity? +accessible? -577 +558 00:32:40,094 --> 00:32:44,378 -Todd: So the W three C has a -great, intro to +Todd: So the w three C has a +great, um, intro to -578 +559 00:32:44,378 --> 00:32:48,662 accessibility -579 +560 00:32:48,692 --> 00:32:52,982 class, which I believe is still free. And yeah, it's an -580 +561 00:32:53,042 --> 00:32:55,947 Introduction to Web Accessibility on edex.org. And, -581 +562 00:32:55,947 --> 00:32:58,852 -I took that +uh, I took that -582 +563 00:32:58,853 --> 00:33:01,450 -class even. and it was it's -great. you can pace +class even. Um, and it was it's +great. Uh, you can pace -583 +564 00:33:01,450 --> 00:33:04,047 yourself. -584 +565 00:33:04,528 --> 00:33:07,092 Doesn't have to be real fast is no, you know, there's no due -585 +566 00:33:07,092 --> 00:33:09,656 date -586 +567 00:33:09,657 --> 00:33:11,907 or anything. There's a free version. If you want a -587 +568 00:33:11,907 --> 00:33:17,877 certificate, you got to pay a -certain amount. it's like if +certain amount. Um, it's like if -588 +569 00:33:17,877 --> 00:33:21,238 you put in four to five hours a week, it's like for four weeks -589 +570 00:33:21,238 --> 00:33:27,373 -long, to do. It gives a good +long, uh, to do. It gives a good overview of, excuse me, -590 +571 00:33:27,373 --> 00:33:30,868 accessibility, and you know, some of the guidelines there's, -591 +572 00:33:30,868 --> 00:33:34,363 -a +um, a -592 +573 00:33:34,363 --> 00:33:40,542 lot of good information on the -web, and, even have to +web, uh, and, uh, even have to -593 +574 00:33:40,542 --> 00:33:44,532 pitch Nobility's website and their blog. They go over some of -594 +575 00:33:44,532 --> 00:33:50,337 -the, WCAG guidelines and +the, uh, WCAG guidelines and accessibility is also, I want to -595 -00:33:50,337 --> 00:33:52,707 -make this clear, accessibility -is more than just WCAG - -596 -00:33:52,707 --> 00:33:55,077 -guidelines. +576 +00:33:50,337 --> 00:33:55,077 +make this clear accessibility is +more than just WCAG guidelines. -597 +577 00:33:55,438 --> 00:34:01,647 -It's also about inclusive design -as well. Making sure, +Um, it's also about inclusive +design as well. Um, making sure, -598 +578 00:34:01,917 --> 00:34:07,048 you know, certain demographics aren't, you know, kept out that, -599 +579 00:34:07,048 --> 00:34:12,117 -that everybody's included, hence -the name inclusive design. +that everybody's included, um, +hence the name inclusive design. -600 +580 00:34:12,447 --> 00:34:21,768 -But, Some other, let's see. -That's a good +Um, but, um, Some other, um, +let's see. That's a good -601 +581 00:34:21,768 --> 00:34:24,797 question. Cause there's so much, I mean, I guess, you know, a -602 +582 00:34:24,797 --> 00:34:31,728 search would come up with a lot of different things. WebAIM.org -603 +583 00:34:31,797 --> 00:34:36,027 has some good stuff. As far as accessibility, learning -604 +584 00:34:36,027 --> 00:34:43,018 -accessibility, level access -does, let's see who else. +accessibility, um, level access +does, uh, let's see who else. -605 +585 00:34:44,327 --> 00:34:47,310 TPGI has good stuff. So there's, there's a lot out there that, -606 +586 00:34:47,310 --> 00:34:50,293 you -607 +587 00:34:50,293 --> 00:34:54,913 know, people can find on, you know, even there's even like -608 +588 00:34:54,913 --> 00:35:00,943 courses on, I guess Udemy and platforms like that as well. -609 +589 00:35:03,853 --> 00:35:06,613 -Bekah: So ki- this has kind of -been your focus the entire time +Bekah: So, this has kind of been +your focus the entire time -610 +590 00:35:06,613 --> 00:35:09,373 you've -611 +591 00:35:09,373 --> 00:35:15,373 been working in tech. Was there a reason that you went down this -612 +592 00:35:15,373 --> 00:35:17,877 -path or- or something that kind +path or, or something that kind of inspired this journey? Or -613 +593 00:35:17,877 --> 00:35:20,381 have -614 +594 00:35:20,382 --> 00:35:22,463 you just always been interested in it? -615 +595 00:35:24,333 --> 00:35:30,722 -Todd: It started when a couple -of family members, I have +Todd: Uh, it started when a +couple of family members, I have -616 +596 00:35:30,722 --> 00:35:36,603 like three family members that -have disabilities, two have +have disabilities, um, to have -617 +597 00:35:36,603 --> 00:35:45,012 motor skill disabilities, one visual and. Seeing the looks of -618 +598 00:35:45,012 --> 00:35:48,342 frustration on their faces when they're trying to access -619 +599 00:35:48,342 --> 00:35:52,842 something that's inaccessible on the web really got me motivated -620 +600 00:35:52,842 --> 00:36:01,362 in the beginning and carries me -to this day. Really. I kind +to this day. Really. Um, I kind -621 +601 00:36:01,362 --> 00:36:08,916 of towards like 2018, 2019 was kind of like. I guess slacking -622 +602 00:36:08,916 --> 00:36:11,631 off a little bit with my accessibility, but I get -623 +603 00:36:11,631 --> 00:36:14,346 together -624 +604 00:36:14,347 --> 00:36:17,197 with our friend, Chris DeMars in Burlington, Vermont. There was -625 +605 00:36:17,197 --> 00:36:20,047 a, -626 +606 00:36:20,106 --> 00:36:27,811 there was a conference and. You know, he gave a great talk and -627 +607 00:36:27,992 --> 00:36:32,972 that really lit the fire again. So there's been a really, it's -628 +608 00:36:32,972 --> 00:36:38,911 been like laser, like focus for me as far as, since then. And, -629 +609 00:36:38,942 --> 00:36:41,896 -just the looks of frustration on -faces of people +um, just the looks of +frustration on faces of people -630 +610 00:36:41,896 --> 00:36:44,850 that I've -631 +611 00:36:44,851 --> 00:36:49,831 seen, trying to access something that's inaccessible on the web. -632 +612 00:36:50,461 --> 00:36:58,416 -Yeah. It's just, it's very, the -word I'm looking for here, +Yeah. It's just, it's very, um, +the word I'm looking for here, -633 +613 00:36:58,956 --> 00:37:04,086 -very, it hits home. It really, -you know, being that I +very, uh, it hits home. It +really, you know, being that I -634 +614 00:37:04,086 --> 00:37:12,186 try to advocate for people that -don't have a voice. And, I +don't have a voice. And, um, I -635 +615 00:37:12,186 --> 00:37:17,452 -think as- as accessibility, +think as, as accessibility, professional, We all, do we try -636 +616 00:37:17,452 --> 00:37:20,992 to advocate for those people? -Especially lately with +Um, especially lately with -637 +617 00:37:20,992 --> 00:37:24,532 certain, I -638 +618 00:37:24,532 --> 00:37:28,641 will use it in quotes, accessibility, overlays, for -639 +619 00:37:28,641 --> 00:37:35,331 -instance, but, yeah, that's +instance, but, um, yeah, that's basically where it all started -640 +620 00:37:35,331 --> 00:37:37,956 was just those family members and friends and just seeing -641 +621 00:37:37,956 --> 00:37:40,581 people, -642 +622 00:37:40,731 --> 00:37:45,711 -yeah. Th- the frustration and +uh, yeah. Th the frustration and the point where they're ready to -643 +623 00:37:45,711 --> 00:37:46,282 give up. -644 +624 00:37:47,967 --> 00:37:53,067 Bekah: Yeah, I, was just with -Chris last week. He spoke at +Chris last week. Um, he spoke at -645 +625 00:37:53,336 --> 00:37:58,117 -KCDC. He along with Cass Ferris -and they did an accessibility +KC DC. He along with Cass Ferris +and they did anaccessibility -646 +626 00:37:58,137 --> 00:38:00,777 talk. That was the first time I got to see him speak in person. -647 +627 00:38:01,422 --> 00:38:05,052 It was really great because they both come at it with a lot of -648 +628 00:38:05,052 --> 00:38:07,316 passion and examples. And I think for so many of us, we have -649 +629 00:38:07,316 --> 00:38:09,580 a -650 +630 00:38:09,581 --> 00:38:13,001 general sense of what accessibility is, but we don't -651 +631 00:38:13,001 --> 00:38:18,876 -have that broader sense of, you -know, it might be. there +have that broader sense of, uh, +you know, it might be. Um, there -652 +632 00:38:18,876 --> 00:38:23,257 might be a disability that you can't see, or it might be a -653 +633 00:38:23,257 --> 00:38:25,132 temporary disability or a mental health challenge that somebody -654 +634 00:38:25,132 --> 00:38:27,007 is -655 +635 00:38:27,007 --> 00:38:30,126 going through and all of those things can impact what -656 +636 00:38:30,126 --> 00:38:34,177 accessibility looks like. And if you really look at the people -657 +637 00:38:34,177 --> 00:38:39,681 -around you- you for sure know +around you, you for sure know someone that has one of those -658 +638 00:38:39,681 --> 00:38:43,492 -challenges or- or you have one +challenges or, or you have one yourself. And so, you know, -659 +639 00:38:43,521 --> 00:38:46,192 opening up the conversations about this, you know, like you -660 +640 00:38:46,192 --> 00:38:50,751 -have in- in like Chris and Cass +have in, in like Chris and Cass have, I think is so important to -661 +641 00:38:50,961 --> 00:38:53,902 -really making change in- in tech +really making change in, in tech overall. -662 +642 00:38:55,661 --> 00:38:58,871 Todd: Yeah, I, you, know, you you brought up invisible. -663 +643 00:39:01,766 --> 00:39:06,297 Disabilities. I have migraine -headaches. I get them when +headaches. Uh, I get them when -664 +644 00:39:06,297 --> 00:39:11,306 something sets off, if there's a website, I visit that as, you -665 +645 00:39:11,306 --> 00:39:17,306 know, animation or motion that really it's too much. And it's -666 +646 00:39:17,336 --> 00:39:20,757 triggers a migraine. I mean, there's all that stuff that you -667 +647 00:39:20,757 --> 00:39:26,541 mentioned and. Yeah. It's, you -know, Chris is great. You +know, uh, Chris is great. You -668 +648 00:39:26,541 --> 00:39:33,231 -know, I- I I've seen him talk, +know, I, I I've seen him talk, you know, virtually and then -669 +649 00:39:33,831 --> 00:39:37,132 before the pandemic and everything, and we've gotten to -670 +650 00:39:37,132 --> 00:39:39,306 know each other and he, you know, he does a great job -671 +651 00:39:39,306 --> 00:39:41,480 advocating. -672 +652 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,369 Bekah: yeah. I think, you know, even so a couple of years ago I -673 +653 00:39:44,369 --> 00:39:48,090 was diagnosed with ADHD and it's interesting how much I didn't -674 +654 00:39:48,090 --> 00:39:50,370 realize that impacts the things that I interact with and the -675 +655 00:39:50,370 --> 00:39:52,650 ways -676 +656 00:39:52,650 --> 00:39:56,965 that I interact with things. Maybe this is just a personal -677 +657 00:39:56,965 --> 00:39:59,905 problem, but this is the conversation between Discord and -678 +658 00:39:59,905 --> 00:40:04,135 Slack. For me, like I walk into Discord, I don't walk in there. -679 +659 00:40:04,494 --> 00:40:06,684 -I open up Discord and it's +Um, I open up Discord and it's immediately just overwhelming -680 +660 00:40:06,684 --> 00:40:08,874 and -681 +661 00:40:08,875 --> 00:40:11,514 I don't know where to go from there. And then I just like -682 +662 00:40:11,844 --> 00:40:15,655 slowly back out the door, right? Like there's too much going on -683 +663 00:40:15,655 --> 00:40:16,135 for me. -684 +664 00:40:16,356 --> 00:40:19,657 Todd: Yeah. That information overload happens to me as well. -685 +665 00:40:19,717 --> 00:40:28,811 -It's like Slack and, Discord -and. There's yeah, I was +Um, it's like Slack and, uh, +Discord and. There's yeah, I was -686 +666 00:40:28,811 --> 00:40:32,171 -on, I was watching a, Twitch +on, I was watching a, uh, Twitch stream yesterday and the chat -687 +667 00:40:32,171 --> 00:40:35,531 was -688 +668 00:40:35,532 --> 00:40:39,882 going off and I was just like, I just, I can't, I want to be able -689 +669 00:40:39,882 --> 00:40:44,112 to kind of read the chat and I can't because you know it, yeah. -690 +670 00:40:44,121 --> 00:40:46,481 The information overload is a big thing too. -691 +671 00:40:47,889 --> 00:40:52,929 Bekah: So I, you know, I think, -Your background, you talked +um, Your background, you talked -692 +672 00:40:52,929 --> 00:40:57,400 about your journey through this and it seems like you've been -693 +673 00:40:57,429 --> 00:40:59,679 mostly self-taught then, is that right? -694 +674 00:41:00,586 --> 00:41:03,248 -Todd: Yeah. I started, when I -picked up that Commodore 64 +Todd: Yeah. Um, I started, when +I picked up that Commodore 64 -695 +675 00:41:03,248 --> 00:41:05,910 user -696 +676 00:41:05,911 --> 00:41:09,841 manual. And just, I love to read -and I read that. I had purchased +and I read that I had purchased -697 +677 00:41:09,841 --> 00:41:13,771 a -698 +678 00:41:13,771 --> 00:41:17,821 book. It was a Learn HTML in 21 days. And it was like a big, -699 +679 00:41:17,821 --> 00:41:21,871 huge -700 +680 00:41:21,902 --> 00:41:26,851 thick phone book, like manual. And I read through that. That's -701 +681 00:41:26,851 --> 00:41:33,242 how I actually made my first -website. Not that I put it +website. Uh, not that I put it -702 +682 00:41:33,242 --> 00:41:39,632 out on the web or anything, but -then I- I graduated from +then I. Um, I graduated from -703 +683 00:41:39,632 --> 00:41:41,761 there on, I went to Geo Cities and Angel Fire and Tripod and -704 +684 00:41:41,761 --> 00:41:43,890 all -705 +685 00:41:43,891 --> 00:41:46,922 those websites, if you remember those websites -706 +686 00:41:46,942 --> 00:41:47,612 -Dan: Oh. Yeah. +Dan: here. Yeah. -707 +687 00:41:47,972 --> 00:41:52,411 Todd: and all the great, you know, lime green and pastel and, -708 +688 00:41:52,742 --> 00:41:56,559 you know, fluorescent colors. -and then, you know, It's +Um, and then, you know, It's -709 +689 00:41:56,559 --> 00:42:00,376 been a -710 +690 00:42:00,376 --> 00:42:04,847 learning process the entire time and I love to learn. So it's one -711 +691 00:42:04,847 --> 00:42:07,456 of those things where if I can pick up something in a Slack -712 +692 00:42:07,876 --> 00:42:13,427 group or on a Discord channel, that's great. I've, you know, I -713 +693 00:42:13,427 --> 00:42:19,947 keep learning every day and, you know, learning. Lately it's been -714 +694 00:42:19,947 --> 00:42:23,936 learning the intricacies of the WCAG guidelines because there's -715 +695 00:42:23,936 --> 00:42:26,756 -so much there. and being able -to, and I'm grateful for +so much there. Um, and being +able to, and I'm grateful for -716 +696 00:42:26,756 --> 00:42:29,576 this -717 +697 00:42:29,606 --> 00:42:36,177 being able to work on the next, I guess, version, which is 3.0, -718 +698 00:42:36,987 --> 00:42:41,097 which is a few years down the road has been a learning process -719 +699 00:42:41,097 --> 00:42:43,091 as well. And being a member of -the W3C is too, and being in +the W3C is to, and being in -720 +700 00:42:43,091 --> 00:42:45,085 those -721 +701 00:42:45,086 --> 00:42:49,902 meetings and. We're learning so much from a great group of -722 +702 00:42:49,902 --> 00:42:50,322 people. -723 +703 00:42:50,942 --> 00:42:52,547 Bekah: Yeah, that's awesome. I love that idea of just -724 +704 00:42:52,547 --> 00:42:54,152 consistent -725 +705 00:42:54,152 --> 00:42:55,636 learning and being open to learning all of the time, -726 +706 00:42:55,636 --> 00:42:57,120 because -727 +707 00:42:57,121 --> 00:43:02,161 I think no matter what part of -tech or- or any industry really +tech or, or any industry really -728 +708 00:43:02,161 --> 00:43:05,612 that you're in the being open to learning new things and talking -729 +709 00:43:05,612 --> 00:43:07,697 through things with other people. and understanding is, -730 +710 00:43:07,697 --> 00:43:09,782 you know, -731 +711 00:43:09,782 --> 00:43:14,251 -that- that's what growing is +that that's what growing is about. That's what is important -732 +712 00:43:14,251 --> 00:43:14,882 to what you're doing. -733 +713 00:43:18,112 --> 00:43:23,001 Todd: Yeah. It's, you know, even I've, you know, learned, I -734 +714 00:43:23,001 --> 00:43:26,722 learned on Twitter as well, you know, I see something, a link to -735 +715 00:43:26,722 --> 00:43:30,262 an article or something and I check it out and it's like, oh, -736 +716 00:43:30,291 --> 00:43:37,981 well, you know, Today I learned, you know, and you know, I it's -737 +717 00:43:38,041 --> 00:43:40,591 it's, you know, there was a quote and I'll try to find that -738 +718 00:43:40,591 --> 00:43:43,141 quote -739 +719 00:43:43,172 --> 00:43:49,532 -because I love the quote. It had -something to do with, +because I love the quote. Um, it +had something to do with, uh, -740 +720 00:43:49,652 --> 00:43:57,601 doing something. Yeah, right -there. "There are three +there. Um, there are three -741 +721 00:43:57,601 --> 00:44:03,976 things. Everyone should do every day. Number one is laugh. Number -742 +722 00:44:03,976 --> 00:44:09,407 two is think, spend some time in thought number three, you should -743 +723 00:44:09,407 --> 00:44:11,221 have your emotions, you to tears. If you laugh, think and -744 +724 00:44:11,221 --> 00:44:13,035 cry, -745 -00:44:13,036 --> 00:44:15,256 -that's a heck of a day." And -that was just like the best - -746 -00:44:15,256 --> 00:44:17,476 -quote. I +725 +00:44:13,036 --> 00:44:17,476 +that's a heck of a day. And that +was just like the best quote. I -747 +726 00:44:17,476 --> 00:44:21,916 think I've seen it in a long, long time. I even add to that -748 +727 00:44:21,916 --> 00:44:23,137 learning one thing a day. -749 +728 00:44:23,873 --> 00:44:27,838 Bekah: Yeah. I love that so much. I didn't think, you know, -750 +729 00:44:27,869 --> 00:44:30,133 learning things on Twitter for me has been really big as well. -751 +730 00:44:30,133 --> 00:44:32,397 Even -752 +731 00:44:32,398 --> 00:44:36,239 when somebody just has a small portion of a tweet at, for some -753 +732 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,329 reason, it sticks in my mind better than if I read a whole -754 +733 00:44:39,329 --> 00:44:42,418 article on that thing. And I think maybe because there's some -755 +734 00:44:42,418 --> 00:44:44,278 type of personal connection there. Oh, I remember that -756 +735 00:44:44,278 --> 00:44:46,138 person -757 +736 00:44:46,139 --> 00:44:48,929 said this one thing and it, you know, it might be some type of -758 +737 00:44:49,199 --> 00:44:53,338 coding tip or whatever, but I think that just be just sharing -759 +738 00:44:53,338 --> 00:44:57,568 -that knowledge or- or it's Hey, +that knowledge or, or it's Hey, I know that I could ask that -760 +739 00:44:57,568 --> 00:45:02,849 person. That question can be really helpful in finding the -761 +740 00:45:02,849 --> 00:45:07,768 answers to things or having more -confidence in- in being, being +confidence in, in being, being -762 +741 00:45:07,798 --> 00:45:09,298 able to ask questions. -763 -00:45:10,208 --> 00:45:13,928 -Todd: Yeah. It's- it's, you -know, I use Twitter as a tool to - -764 -00:45:13,928 --> 00:45:17,648 -say, +742 +00:45:10,208 --> 00:45:17,648 +Todd: Yeah. It's it's, you know, +I use Twitter as a tool to say, -765 +743 00:45:18,699 --> 00:45:22,358 -you know, oh, you- you mentioned +you know, oh, you, you mentioned something about the new, you -766 +744 00:45:22,358 --> 00:45:25,388 -know, whatever coming- coming -down the line. I've got a +know, um, whatever coming, +coming down the line. I've got a -767 +745 00:45:25,388 --> 00:45:28,418 couple -768 +746 00:45:28,418 --> 00:45:33,349 -of questions for you. You know, -Hey, can I, you know, DM +of questions for you. Um, you +know, Hey, can I, you know, DM -769 +747 00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:36,998 you, I got a question I need to ask and it reaching out to -770 +748 00:45:36,998 --> 00:45:40,869 somebody to, or to the person that, you know, had that tweet -771 +749 00:45:41,259 --> 00:45:44,243 -it's, and, and Most you know, I -don't think I've ever had +it's, uh, and, and Mo you know, +I don't think I've ever had -772 +750 00:45:44,243 --> 00:45:47,227 anybody -773 +751 00:45:47,228 --> 00:45:48,743 go no I don't want to tell you the answer or anything like -774 +752 00:45:48,743 --> 00:45:50,258 that. -775 +753 00:45:50,438 --> 00:45:55,418 -So, yeah, it's- it's always -been, you know, Hey, you +So, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's +always been, you know, Hey, you -776 +754 00:45:55,418 --> 00:46:00,074 know, I've got this question. People are more than, you know, -777 +755 00:46:00,943 --> 00:46:04,304 more than welcome to, to answer those questions. -778 +756 00:46:05,634 --> 00:46:07,943 Bekah: Yeah. And I think that's so big, especially when we're -779 +757 00:46:07,943 --> 00:46:11,244 talking about this topic. If you don't know it is okay to ask -780 +758 00:46:11,244 --> 00:46:13,208 somebody, Or ask someone just to -direct you- you know, I'm +direct you, you know, I'm -781 +759 00:46:13,208 --> 00:46:15,172 getting -782 +760 00:46:15,173 --> 00:46:17,003 started in this. It's not been a -focus. How- how do I get +focus. How, how do I get -783 +761 00:46:17,003 --> 00:46:18,833 started? -784 +762 00:46:18,833 --> 00:46:20,798 What do I do? And dropped a lot of great resources here, but, -785 +763 00:46:20,798 --> 00:46:22,763 you -786 +764 00:46:22,764 --> 00:46:26,333 -know, I think in- in every place +know, I think in, in every place and space we should, we should -787 +765 00:46:26,333 --> 00:46:27,893 know that it is okay to ask about these things. And it's -788 +766 00:46:27,893 --> 00:46:29,453 good to do -789 +767 00:46:29,454 --> 00:46:29,813 that. -790 +768 00:46:30,429 --> 00:46:32,393 Todd: Yeah, definitely. You know, I tell people, you know, -791 +769 00:46:32,393 --> 00:46:34,357 if you -792 +770 00:46:34,358 --> 00:46:35,738 have a question about accessibility, I'll do my best -793 +771 00:46:35,738 --> 00:46:37,118 to -794 +772 00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:38,903 answer. If I can't answer it, I will find somebody that can, or -795 +773 00:46:38,903 --> 00:46:40,687 I -796 +774 00:46:40,688 --> 00:46:42,103 will look it up and see if I can get you the answer, because -797 +775 00:46:42,103 --> 00:46:43,518 it's, -798 +776 00:46:43,518 --> 00:46:45,490 -it's- it's that little, you +it's, it's that little, you know, it's that being helpful? -799 +777 00:46:45,490 --> 00:46:47,462 And -800 +778 00:46:47,463 --> 00:46:50,364 again, making, you know, making sure that person has that -801 +779 00:46:50,364 --> 00:46:54,594 information for me anyways, is, is big. And, you know, just -802 +780 00:46:54,594 --> 00:46:57,684 saying, you know, feeling good about being able to help people. -803 +781 00:46:59,293 --> 00:47:01,364 Bekah: Yeah, for sure. That's so important. -804 +782 00:47:01,364 --> 00:47:02,224 Dan: I love it. -805 -00:47:03,773 --> 00:47:05,295 -Bekah: Todd we have about one, a -time for one more question. And, - -806 -00:47:05,295 --> 00:47:06,817 -and +783 +00:47:03,773 --> 00:47:06,818 +Bekah: we have about one a time +for one more question. And, and -807 +784 00:47:06,818 --> 00:47:07,958 I'd love to hear what you have to say about this. Cause I know -808 +785 00:47:07,958 --> 00:47:09,098 that -809 +786 00:47:09,099 --> 00:47:12,699 there still are companies out -there that are, have some +there that are, um, have some -810 +787 00:47:12,699 --> 00:47:18,398 pushback about paying for making things accessible, or they say -811 +788 00:47:18,398 --> 00:47:20,588 like, well, that's not our focus right now because we don't have -812 +789 00:47:20,588 --> 00:47:22,628 the time or the money to do that. How would you that -813 +790 00:47:22,628 --> 00:47:24,668 situation? Or, -814 +791 00:47:24,818 --> 00:47:26,228 you know, maybe if you were a developer consulting on that, -815 +792 00:47:26,228 --> 00:47:27,638 you -816 +793 00:47:27,639 --> 00:47:30,398 know, how would you kind of -convince them that this- this +convince them that this, this -817 +794 00:47:30,398 --> 00:47:31,179 should be a priority? -818 +795 00:47:31,643 --> 00:47:36,463 Todd: Okay. Funny. You mentioned that. Cause I wrote a article, -819 +796 00:47:36,824 --> 00:47:42,164 -about that and it's on smashing -magazine. So I'll get +uh, about that and it's on +smashing magazine. So I'll get -820 +797 00:47:42,164 --> 00:47:46,981 that. Link to you as well. It's a very tricky slope sometimes. -821 +798 +00:47:46,981 --> 00:47:51,798 +Um, + +799 00:47:51,858 --> 00:47:55,608 you know, I've heard people for instance say, well, you don't -822 +800 00:47:55,608 --> 00:48:00,534 want to get sued. And that kind of. Perks up stakeholders ears -823 +801 00:48:00,534 --> 00:48:03,353 and says, oh, you know, well, I guess we're going to have to do -824 +802 00:48:03,353 --> 00:48:14,934 -this. Me. I use real world +this me. I use real world examples of, for instance, I ran -825 +803 00:48:14,934 --> 00:48:21,083 -into a stakeholder on a project. +into a stakeholder on a project and I said, we've got to make -826 +804 00:48:21,083 --> 00:48:24,054 sure accessibility is done from the very beginning of the -827 +805 00:48:24,054 --> 00:48:27,773 project. He turned to me and said, we don't have disabled -828 +806 00:48:27,773 --> 00:48:30,503 users. I in turn said to him, you're wearing eyeglasses, -829 +807 00:48:30,503 --> 00:48:33,233 that's -830 +808 00:48:33,233 --> 00:48:38,454 an assistive technology and he kind of perked up, but I'd, -831 +809 00:48:38,454 --> 00:48:40,928 hadn't convinced him. So the, you know, there's some people -832 +810 00:48:40,928 --> 00:48:43,402 that -833 +811 00:48:43,403 --> 00:48:47,934 can be very stubborn. So I went as far as to say, you know, -834 +812 00:48:48,534 --> 00:48:50,754 somebody's working. You know, using your product, they can -835 +813 00:48:50,754 --> 00:48:52,974 have -836 +814 00:48:52,974 --> 00:48:55,554 a broken arm, it could be a situational disability. They -837 +815 00:48:55,563 --> 00:48:58,224 could have a broken arm. They could be at home working with a -838 +816 00:48:58,224 --> 00:49:02,094 child on their lap. That's very fussy. I've been there a long -839 +817 00:49:02,094 --> 00:49:05,403 time ago. I know that feeling and I, you know, I know Bekah, -840 +818 00:49:05,403 --> 00:49:08,712 you're -841 +819 00:49:08,713 --> 00:49:10,753 a parent. I don't know if you're a parent, Dan, but. -842 +820 00:49:10,853 --> 00:49:11,253 -Dan: Hell yeah. +Dan: yeah. -843 +821 00:49:11,753 --> 00:49:15,264 -Todd: Yeah- Yeah. So you both +Todd: Yeah. Yeah. So you both know that, you know, you have a -844 +822 00:49:15,264 --> 00:49:18,563 child on your lap and they're fussy, you know, and you're -845 +823 00:49:18,563 --> 00:49:22,164 trying to answer an email or something. It's very difficult. -846 +824 00:49:22,164 --> 00:49:26,408 So, you know, getting teams on board is another thing too, -847 +825 00:49:26,408 --> 00:49:30,652 where -848 +826 00:49:30,684 --> 00:49:35,918 getting somebody. A person dedicated to doing accessibility -849 +827 00:49:35,918 --> 00:49:39,338 on the design side, on the development side, on the -850 +828 00:49:39,338 --> 00:49:45,009 marketing side. That helps too. But the main thing is getting -851 +829 00:49:45,009 --> 00:49:47,604 stakeholders on board. If you can get a stakeholder on board, -852 +830 00:49:47,604 --> 00:49:50,199 then -853 +831 00:49:50,318 --> 00:49:52,703 -it should be much- much easier +it should be much, much easier to get the entire organization -854 +832 00:49:52,703 --> 00:49:55,088 on -855 +833 00:49:55,088 --> 00:49:55,498 board. -856 +834 00:49:57,268 --> 00:49:58,433 Bekah: Yeah, that's great. I love that. You know, it all -857 +835 00:49:58,433 --> 00:49:59,598 comes down -858 +836 00:49:59,599 --> 00:50:03,228 to listening and being open-minded right. If we work -859 +837 00:50:03,228 --> 00:50:05,238 towards understanding each other, then we can all do a -860 +838 00:50:05,238 --> 00:50:07,248 whole lot -861 +839 00:50:07,248 --> 00:50:09,139 more to improve things for everyone. -862 +840 00:50:10,478 --> 00:50:15,188 Todd: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yep. I've heard it, -863 +841 00:50:15,998 --> 00:50:19,268 I've heard it before. We don't have the budget, you know, we'll -864 +842 00:50:19,268 --> 00:50:26,418 get to it after launch. Well, that brings me back to. Yep. If -865 +843 00:50:26,418 --> 00:50:28,998 you do everything from the beginning, you will have the -866 +844 00:50:28,998 --> 00:50:33,108 money for it and you know, it will be less stressed, so, yeah. -867 +845 00:50:33,148 --> 00:50:35,188 Dan: don't need to pay for it. Find the budget to pay for a -868 +846 00:50:35,188 --> 00:50:38,454 whole round of. You know, auditing and stuff. -869 +847 00:50:39,208 --> 00:50:45,298 Todd: Right. Yeah. And auditing. So I'll use an example of a -870 +848 00:50:45,298 --> 00:50:53,664 company that got sued and what they could have. What they could -871 +849 00:50:53,664 --> 00:50:55,643 have spent just with, you know, doing it from the beginning, -872 +850 00:50:55,643 --> 00:50:57,622 they -873 +851 00:50:57,623 --> 00:51:00,713 ended up paying seven figures for an audit. So that should -874 +852 00:51:00,713 --> 00:51:03,803 tell you -875 +853 00:51:03,804 --> 00:51:05,634 something about that process. -876 +854 00:51:06,099 --> 00:51:07,149 Bekah: Right. And it shouldn't ever have to come to that. -877 +855 00:51:07,149 --> 00:51:08,199 That's -878 +856 00:51:08,648 --> 00:51:10,989 -know, absolutely ridiculous. +know, absolutely ridiculous, -879 +857 00:51:11,494 --> 00:51:11,793 -Todd: Yeah. +Todd: yeah. -880 +858 00:51:12,728 --> 00:51:14,768 Bekah: But I'm so glad that you were here today to talk us -881 +859 00:51:14,768 --> 00:51:17,228 through this and drop all of these great resources. And I -882 +860 00:51:17,228 --> 00:51:19,283 really hope that, you know, it helps people who are listening -883 +861 00:51:19,283 --> 00:51:21,338 to -884 +862 00:51:22,059 --> 00:51:24,878 work through the stuff. And to know that it's okay to ask -885 +863 00:51:24,878 --> 00:51:30,233 questions. And to Grow and learn -more all the time. So we'll +more all the time. Um, so we'll -886 +864 00:51:30,233 --> 00:51:33,563 make sure that we drop all those links in the show notes. And -887 +865 00:51:33,713 --> 00:51:35,634 thanks so much for being here with us today. Todd -888 +866 00:51:36,474 --> 00:51:37,134 Todd: Well, thank you. -889 +867 00:51:37,173 --> 00:51:38,074 Dan: Really appreciate it too. -890 +868 00:51:38,483 --> 00:51:39,804 Todd: Yeah. Thank you both for having me -891 +869 00:51:40,844 --> 00:51:41,483 Bekah: Bye. -892 +870 00:51:41,824 --> 00:51:44,023 -Dan: Alright, bye Todd. +Dan: alright, bye Todd. -893 +871 00:51:44,684 --> 00:51:44,873 Todd: Bye -894 +872 00:51:46,646 --> 00:51:48,956 Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual -895 +873 00:51:48,956 --> 00:51:52,476 Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah -896 +874 00:51:52,496 --> 00:51:55,657 Hawrot Weigel, and was edited by Andy Bonjour at GoodDay -897 +875 00:51:55,677 --> 00:51:58,467 Communications. If you have questions or comments, you can -898 +876 00:51:58,467 --> 00:52:01,706 hit us up on Twitter at VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at -899 +877 00:52:01,706 --> 00:52:04,136 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up -900 +878 00:52:04,136 --> 00:52:06,566 for -901 +879 00:52:06,567 --> 00:52:08,907 our newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our -902 +880 00:52:08,907 --> 00:52:11,141 website at virtualcoffee.io. And of course join us for our -903 +881 00:52:11,141 --> 00:52:13,375 Virtual -904 +882 00:52:13,376 --> 00:52:16,226 Coffee Chats every Tuesday at 9 -AM Eastern and Thursday at +am Eastern and Thursday at -905 +883 00:52:16,226 --> 00:52:18,024 -12 PM Eastern Please subscribe +12 pm Eastern Please subscribe to our podcast and be -906 +884 00:52:18,024 --> 00:52:19,822 sure to -907 +885 00:52:19,822 --> 00:52:22,882 leave us a review. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next -908 +886 00:52:22,882 --> 00:52:23,213 week! \ No newline at end of file From 90a1d8484d49a7880480f0f9cb3ed693ecd72490 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Chris Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 14:20:29 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 09/13] working on epi 4/7 --- episodes/4_7.srt | 160 +++++++++++++++++++++++++---------------------- 1 file changed, 84 insertions(+), 76 deletions(-) diff --git a/episodes/4_7.srt b/episodes/4_7.srt index 65504c6..f15173d 100644 --- a/episodes/4_7.srt +++ b/episodes/4_7.srt @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ 1 00:00:05,758 --> 00:00:07,452 -Bekah: Hello and welcome to +Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Hello and welcome to season four, episode seven of 2 @@ -51,7 +51,7 @@ cohost Dan. 12 00:00:31,096 --> 00:00:33,795 -Dan: Thanks Bekah. Today, we had +Dan Ott: Thanks Bekah. Today, we had a great time hanging out with 13 @@ -61,7 +61,7 @@ self-taught developer and staff 14 00:00:37,426 --> 00:00:39,345 -author for the freeCodeCamp news +author for the FreeCodeCamp news publication. Jessica talked 15 @@ -90,37 +90,37 @@ your tech writing by eliminating 20 00:00:53,746 --> 00:00:57,886 assumptions about your audience. -And avoiding terms. Uh, like +And avoiding terms, like 21 00:00:58,305 --> 00:01:01,786 "it's so easy" and "just do -this." Uh, she gave some tips, +this." she gave some tips, 22 00:01:01,786 --> 00:01:04,695 like adding a prerequisites to -your posts or, uh, other +your posts or, other 23 00:01:04,725 --> 00:01:10,635 -resources. Um, Basically, um, +resources. Basically, Outlined her entire process for 24 00:01:10,665 --> 00:01:13,846 all of her tech writing that she -does. And, uh, she does a lot of +does. And, she does a lot of 25 00:01:13,846 --> 00:01:16,995 it and it's all pretty awesome. -Um it was a really great +it was a really great 26 00:01:17,025 --> 00:01:19,906 conversation and i know you were -going to enjoy it +going to enjoy it. 27 00:01:20,287 --> 00:01:22,867 @@ -143,7 +143,7 @@ hope 31 00:01:29,677 --> 00:01:40,533 -you enjoy this episode. My name +you enjoy this episode. [music] My name is Bekah. I am a front end 32 @@ -163,7 +163,7 @@ name is Dan. I am a front end 35 00:01:51,343 --> 00:01:56,143 developer from Cleveland, Ohio. -And, um, yeah, my, my favorite +And, yeah, my, my favorite 36 00:01:56,143 --> 00:01:59,173 @@ -173,7 +173,7 @@ if I had to pick one, it would, 37 00:01:59,352 --> 00:02:02,352 it would be Return of the Jedi. -Um, yeah. As, as a child, I +yeah. As, as a child, I 38 00:02:02,362 --> 00:02:06,692 @@ -182,11 +182,11 @@ So it's easy choice for me. 39 00:02:06,798 --> 00:02:07,668 -Bekah: The solid choice. +Bekah: It's a solid choice. 40 00:02:08,897 --> 00:02:13,638 -Jessica: Sounds pretty good. Hi, +Jessica Wilkins: Sounds pretty good. Hi, I am Jessica Wilkins and I am a 41 @@ -196,7 +196,7 @@ am also a technical writer for 42 00:02:17,418 --> 00:02:21,948 -freeCodeCamp News. my favorite +FreeCodeCamp News. my favorite movie was actually the Toy Story 43 @@ -206,11 +206,11 @@ but all four of them are 44 00:02:23,868 --> 00:02:25,788 -amazing. +amazing there. 45 00:02:26,992 --> 00:02:28,457 -Dan: Those are on big rotation +Dan: Nice, those are on big rotation at our house with, with our 46 @@ -219,8 +219,8 @@ kids. 47 00:02:29,923 --> 00:02:32,103 -Uh, we also enjoy them. They're -solid. +We also enjoy them. They're +[crosstalk] solid. 48 00:02:32,103 --> 00:02:35,818 @@ -229,7 +229,7 @@ Andy went to college, I bawled 49 00:02:35,848 --> 00:02:38,877 -like a little baby. I was like, +like a little baby. I'm like, oh my gosh, he can't leave. And 50 @@ -256,7 +256,7 @@ discourage that. That's I 55 00:02:45,897 --> 00:02:46,867 -started +Toy Story 56 00:02:46,867 --> 00:02:49,048 @@ -266,7 +266,7 @@ discourage Toy Story 3 just 57 00:02:49,048 --> 00:02:52,298 because it. It's very good. It's -about it is emotionally, uh, +about it is emotionally, 58 00:02:52,418 --> 00:02:52,867 @@ -306,7 +306,7 @@ kids. Cause like I just find 66 00:03:10,402 --> 00:03:13,223 -myself being, you know, uh, +myself being, you know, affected by this stuff in 67 @@ -326,7 +326,7 @@ novels. I read. As like a young 70 00:03:23,117 --> 00:03:29,867 adult to my kids. I, because I -always young adult fiction and I +always loved young adult fiction and I 71 00:03:29,867 --> 00:03:35,027 @@ -350,7 +350,7 @@ very different, lots of crying 75 00:03:47,867 --> 00:03:49,358 -and young adult novel reading. +and young adult novel reading too. 76 00:03:49,358 --> 00:03:53,043 @@ -369,11 +369,11 @@ identifying much more with 79 00:04:02,052 --> 00:04:02,962 -parents. +the parents. Anyway, 80 00:04:03,872 --> 00:04:05,372 -Bekah: Um, welcome. Jessica is +Bekah: Welcome. Jessica it's so great to have you here with 81 @@ -445,7 +445,7 @@ blogging challenge and our goal 95 00:04:51,017 --> 00:04:55,757 was hit 50,000 words. That's -what, uh, as a community, that's +what, as a community, that's 96 00:04:55,757 --> 00:04:57,062 @@ -458,12 +458,12 @@ it, 98 00:04:58,968 --> 00:05:03,348 -this year the, today is Tuesday, +but this year in, today is Tuesday, November 9th. We have already 99 00:05:03,918 --> 00:05:06,408 -have we, where are we at? We're +have we? where are we at? We're past halfway. 100 @@ -483,7 +483,7 @@ Dan: Yep. Over well, over 103 00:05:15,577 --> 00:05:16,208 -Jessica: Oh, cool. +Jessica: Oh, cool. cool. 104 00:05:17,148 --> 00:05:18,857 @@ -507,7 +507,7 @@ awesome one. So tell us a little 108 00:05:28,487 --> 00:05:32,517 bit about how you got to this -point your career. +point in your career. 109 00:05:33,127 --> 00:05:36,603 @@ -534,8 +534,8 @@ And, 114 00:05:44,793 --> 00:05:47,297 -uh, grew up with a single mom -who was a teacher. And so. Uh, I +grew up with a single mom +who was a teacher. And so. I 115 00:05:47,297 --> 00:05:49,801 @@ -553,7 +553,7 @@ early on, I decided I'm going to 118 00:05:56,822 --> 00:06:00,632 -be a professional musician. Uh, +be a professional musician. and so I started with piano and 119 @@ -572,7 +572,7 @@ didn't really like it. Cause I 122 00:06:08,642 --> 00:06:09,752 -didn't sound that good at it, +didn't sound that good at it, [chuckles] 123 00:06:10,577 --> 00:06:10,757 @@ -609,7 +609,7 @@ that 130 00:06:23,762 --> 00:06:27,273 route and be a classical -professional musician. so, uh, +professional musician. and so, 131 00:06:27,273 --> 00:06:31,142 @@ -619,7 +619,7 @@ from high school, I went on to 132 00:06:31,353 --> 00:06:33,348 Eastman School of Music, which -is in Rochester, New York, uh, +is in Rochester, New York, 133 00:06:33,348 --> 00:06:35,343 @@ -674,12 +674,12 @@ run 144 00:07:03,048 --> 00:07:08,362 -that. And then also, uh, perform -and freelance and so. Uh, from +that. And then also, perform +and freelance and so. from 145 00:07:08,362 --> 00:07:14,723 -2015 to 2020, uh, all I did was +2015 to 2020, all I did was perform and record and run my 146 @@ -694,7 +694,7 @@ all that fun stuff. And then 148 00:07:21,068 --> 00:07:23,723 -changed. +[chuckles] changed. 149 00:07:23,723 --> 00:07:28,642 @@ -722,7 +722,7 @@ then 154 00:07:40,668 --> 00:07:45,617 -in June of 2020, um, you know, +in June of 2020, you know, US was going through a lot with 155 @@ -751,7 +751,7 @@ huge 160 00:08:00,182 --> 00:08:02,282 -diversity problem, with, uh, +diversity problem, with, with black representation, 161 @@ -833,12 +833,12 @@ I'm at now. 178 00:08:41,633 --> 00:08:44,023 -Bekah: awesome. Does that site +Bekah: That's so awesome. Does that site still exist out there? 179 00:08:44,842 --> 00:08:46,987 -Jessica: So I created, um, +Jessica: Yes, so I created, version one about six months 180 @@ -858,7 +858,7 @@ and Vanilla JavaScript. and then 183 00:08:58,222 --> 00:09:02,898 I revisited it a few months ago, -um, over the summer of 2021 +over the summer of 2021 184 00:09:03,768 --> 00:09:07,067 @@ -872,7 +872,7 @@ more games and all of this fun 186 00:09:11,597 --> 00:09:15,378 -stuff. yeah, so this was always +stuff. and yeah, so this was always like a passion project. And so I 187 @@ -896,10 +896,18 @@ happened. I wildly miss, understood how COVID works. I 191 -00:09:29,957 --> 00:09:32,388 +00:09:29,957 --> 00:09:31,000 totally thought this was just going to be like a couple of +191 +00:09:31,001 --> 00:09:31,005 +Bekah: same + +191 +00:09:31,957 --> 00:09:32,388 +Dan: everyone did. + 192 00:09:32,388 --> 00:09:36,918 months and I was completely @@ -908,7 +916,7 @@ wrong. So, but, and then I ended 193 00:09:36,918 --> 00:09:40,727 up starting to get developer -work, uh, and that was kinda +work, and that was kinda 194 00:09:40,758 --> 00:09:44,238 @@ -931,7 +939,7 @@ there. So yeah. 198 00:09:49,648 --> 00:09:55,148 Bekah: That is so awesome. So, -um, that project is an open +that project is an open 199 00:09:55,148 --> 00:09:56,018 @@ -949,7 +957,7 @@ source. It's a, anybody could 202 00:10:03,148 --> 00:10:05,698 -like in there and if they want +like dive in there and if they want to contribute there, I'm pretty 203 @@ -968,7 +976,7 @@ awesome. And again, those links 206 00:10:12,847 --> 00:10:21,243 will be in the show notes I just -think seem like. Uh, so driven +think seem like. So driven 207 00:10:21,243 --> 00:10:25,773 @@ -991,7 +999,7 @@ and that's not an easy thing. So 211 00:10:34,743 --> 00:10:38,192 -you have this, um, I don't know, +you have this, I don't know, Tenacity or, or something. How 212 @@ -1016,7 +1024,7 @@ were single parents. And so one 216 00:10:54,302 --> 00:10:56,522 -was by choice. my mom, uh, +was by choice. my mom, worked as a teacher for many 217 @@ -1030,7 +1038,7 @@ she wanted to adopt and have a 219 00:11:01,442 --> 00:11:04,712 -child. Um, and so, uh, she had +child. and so, she had me when she was like 44 or 45. 220 @@ -1039,7 +1047,7 @@ And 221 00:11:07,982 --> 00:11:12,452 -then with my grandmother, uh, +then with my grandmother, she was married, but it was 222 @@ -1055,7 +1063,7 @@ kids by herself and was also a 224 00:11:19,263 --> 00:11:22,052 teacher. but then went on to, -um, you know, own land in +you know, own land in 225 00:11:22,052 --> 00:11:24,841 @@ -1064,7 +1072,7 @@ certain 226 00:11:24,842 --> 00:11:29,373 parts of California and just be -fiercely independent. so I just +fiercely independent. and so I just 227 00:11:29,373 --> 00:11:31,952 @@ -1120,7 +1128,7 @@ in to. The conservatory I was, 238 00:11:56,943 --> 00:11:59,253 -it +but it 239 00:11:59,253 --> 00:12:04,173 @@ -1139,7 +1147,7 @@ my 242 00:12:08,903 --> 00:12:11,673 dream schools. So at first I was -like, well maybe I'll just start +like, well maybe I'm just not 243 00:12:11,673 --> 00:12:15,423 @@ -1149,7 +1157,7 @@ rejections from other schools. 244 00:12:15,663 --> 00:12:19,232 But then at the very end I was -accepted, uh, to Eastman. And +accepted, to Eastman. And 245 00:12:19,232 --> 00:12:21,423 @@ -1167,16 +1175,16 @@ So that worked out. 248 00:12:26,368 --> 00:12:28,318 -Dan: awesome. Oh, um, the oboe +Dan: awesome. Oh, the oboe is an interesting choice. What, 249 00:12:28,318 --> 00:12:30,268 -uh, + 250 00:12:30,298 --> 00:12:33,057 -w w do you have any reason why, +w- w- do you have any reason why, like, what made you like lean 251 @@ -1195,8 +1203,8 @@ that. 254 00:12:38,538 --> 00:12:40,638 -Jessica: so I didn't actually -choose it. Um, +Jessica: yeah so I didn't actually +choose it. 255 00:12:41,177 --> 00:12:41,388 @@ -1205,7 +1213,7 @@ Dan: Sure. 256 00:12:42,347 --> 00:12:44,282 Jessica: I didn't choose it. -Yeah. um, I was learning piano +Yeah. I was learning piano 257 00:12:44,282 --> 00:12:46,217 @@ -1214,7 +1222,7 @@ in 258 00:12:46,217 --> 00:12:50,052 elementary school, and then I -tried to pick up trumpet. That +tried to pick up trumpet. But That 259 00:12:50,143 --> 00:12:52,993 @@ -1229,7 +1237,7 @@ to be in band because all my 261 00:12:56,562 --> 00:13:00,913 friends were in band and I loved -music. so I asked the, uh, band +music. so I asked the, band 262 00:13:00,913 --> 00:13:03,102 @@ -1263,7 +1271,7 @@ You 268 00:13:18,567 --> 00:13:21,658 know, blow and just how you make -an abasured. And I did that and +an embouchure. And I did that and 269 00:13:21,658 --> 00:13:23,998 @@ -1357,7 +1365,7 @@ like fight it there, so. 288 00:14:10,113 --> 00:14:12,932 -Bekah: Oldest is learning their +Bekah: My oldest is learning the trombone because someone gave us 289 @@ -1394,7 +1402,7 @@ your 296 00:14:27,312 --> 00:14:31,602 you've had this history of -teaching in your family, it +teaching in your family, and it 297 00:14:31,602 --> 00:14:35,052 @@ -1431,7 +1439,7 @@ you've learned from your mom and 304 00:14:51,557 --> 00:14:56,447 -your grandmother, um, or is it +your grandmother, or is it something that you thought you 305 @@ -1441,7 +1449,7 @@ acquire that skill? 306 00:14:59,993 --> 00:15:02,647 -Jessica: Yeah, I you know what I +Jessica: Yeah, I, I you really know when I was teaching beginners, there's 307 From e57b6883a8435ed10f0c06a03d8b1159ced13d37 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Chris Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 14:03:31 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 10/13] updating transscription --- episodes/4_7.srt | 305 ++++++++++++++++++++++++----------------------- 1 file changed, 153 insertions(+), 152 deletions(-) diff --git a/episodes/4_7.srt b/episodes/4_7.srt index f15173d..0a3d254 100644 --- a/episodes/4_7.srt +++ b/episodes/4_7.srt @@ -167,7 +167,7 @@ And, yeah, my, my favorite 36 00:01:56,143 --> 00:01:59,173 -movie is Star Wars. Um, I think +movie is Star Wars. I think if I had to pick one, it would, 37 @@ -1469,7 +1469,7 @@ oboist, because it's like a 310 00:15:12,273 --> 00:15:15,748 really weird instrument and -there's not a little. Unnatural +there's not a lot- Unnatural 311 00:15:15,748 --> 00:15:18,807 @@ -1507,8 +1507,8 @@ of 318 00:15:37,607 --> 00:15:41,807 -writers just skip over stuff and -they'll skip like 20 steps where +writers just skip over stuff [chuckles] and +they'll skip like 20 steps when 319 00:15:41,807 --> 00:15:44,118 @@ -1546,7 +1546,7 @@ that 326 00:15:59,477 --> 00:16:02,055 -goes into my writing. Um, cause +goes into my writing. Cause I just want to help people as 327 @@ -1579,7 +1579,7 @@ about 333 00:16:24,077 --> 00:16:26,402 the people who are reading them. -I can't tell you how many times +Because I can't tell you how many times 334 00:16:26,402 --> 00:16:28,727 @@ -1606,7 +1606,7 @@ And that can be really hard to 339 00:16:41,863 --> 00:16:45,582 -navigate through, especially +navigate through, especially if you're self-taught or you don't 340 @@ -1641,7 +1641,7 @@ oh, 346 00:17:04,307 --> 00:17:06,527 it's so easy. You just do this. -You can't say that. Like a lot +You can't say that. [Chuckles] Like a lot 347 00:17:06,527 --> 00:17:08,747 @@ -1650,7 +1650,7 @@ of 348 00:17:08,748 --> 00:17:10,788 people do this when they're -setting up, like get hub for the +setting up, like gitHub for the 349 00:17:10,788 --> 00:17:14,242 @@ -1716,7 +1716,7 @@ very confusing. So. 362 00:17:40,833 --> 00:17:43,623 -Bekah: Yeah, I'll never forget. +Bekah: Yeah, I'll never forget. [crosstalk] It's one of the first times I 363 @@ -1736,12 +1736,12 @@ because I didn't know. And at 366 00:17:51,542 --> 00:17:56,012 that point I hadn't really been -using. Uh, VS Code or, or +using. VS Code or, or 367 00:17:56,012 --> 00:18:01,952 anything like that. And so okay, -um, can you open up a text +can you open up a text 368 00:18:01,952 --> 00:18:06,843 @@ -1751,7 +1751,7 @@ that word meant. And so I opened 369 00:18:06,843 --> 00:18:09,152 up Google docs and, they like, -of went with it. And then +kind of went with it. And then 370 00:18:09,152 --> 00:18:11,461 @@ -1764,7 +1764,7 @@ something like VS Code or Atom. 372 00:18:16,232 --> 00:18:22,548 -oh, a text editor. like, Things +oh, that's a text editor. like, Things like that, you know, I didn't 373 @@ -1783,7 +1783,7 @@ before and I was using built-in, 376 00:18:28,907 --> 00:18:32,657 things with the lessons that I -was learning. I remember just +was learning. And I remember just 377 00:18:32,657 --> 00:18:37,278 @@ -1823,7 +1823,7 @@ an important skill. I think 384 00:19:00,363 --> 00:19:04,712 everybody should write and work -on writing. And I think there's +on writing. And, and I think there's 385 00:19:04,712 --> 00:19:07,353 @@ -1847,7 +1847,7 @@ stuff and then I get to talk 389 00:19:15,722 --> 00:19:17,867 -about, some weird stories I have +about, some yo weird stories I have some fun articles coming up 390 @@ -1871,7 +1871,7 @@ you 394 00:19:29,798 --> 00:19:34,448 know, not making assumptions -about your audience and, um, but +about your audience and, but 395 00:19:34,448 --> 00:19:35,618 @@ -1895,7 +1895,7 @@ there anything. If somebody was 399 00:19:44,387 --> 00:19:46,727 starting a technical article, -you know, I mean, w what advice +you know, I mean, w- what advice 400 00:19:46,727 --> 00:19:49,067 @@ -1913,7 +1913,7 @@ or 403 00:19:52,728 --> 00:19:56,657 that I wanted to, you know, -teach, uh, required to GitHub, +teach, had required to GitHub, 404 00:19:56,657 --> 00:19:59,117 @@ -1943,7 +1943,7 @@ would you would you suggest? 409 00:20:13,538 --> 00:20:17,438 Jessica: Yeah. So I think it's -fine if they're. Uh, if you want +fine if there's. if you want 410 00:20:17,438 --> 00:20:20,327 @@ -1957,8 +1957,8 @@ prerequisites must be familiar 412 00:20:23,778 --> 00:20:27,768 -with and GitHub. Um, I mean, I -just wrote an article about, uh, +with and GitHub. I mean, I +just wrote an article about, 413 00:20:27,798 --> 00:20:31,067 @@ -1983,7 +1983,7 @@ behind nodes. So we can dive 417 00:20:40,538 --> 00:20:42,623 straight into this. And there -was one section there's a +was one section where there's a 418 00:20:42,623 --> 00:20:44,708 @@ -2022,7 +2022,7 @@ think that's completely fine. 425 00:21:03,067 --> 00:21:06,893 There were, if you feel like you -could write through. Um, all of +could write through. All of 426 00:21:06,893 --> 00:21:09,952 @@ -2031,7 +2031,7 @@ think either approach works 427 00:21:09,952 --> 00:21:12,563 -there. Um, but I, I think it's +there. But I, I think it's healthy to have like a 428 @@ -2070,7 +2070,7 @@ you have, 435 00:21:33,478 --> 00:21:36,807 -uh, that basic knowledge. And so +that basic knowledge. And so they'll come to the forum and 436 @@ -2128,7 +2128,7 @@ that's completely fine there. 447 00:22:04,992 --> 00:22:08,413 -Dan: Ah, I love that, that, um, +Dan: Ah, I love that, that, prerequisites, you know, is, I 448 @@ -2151,7 +2151,7 @@ three 452 00:22:13,663 --> 00:22:16,342 -paragraphs in and. Um, assuming +paragraphs in and become totally lost Assuming you read prerequisites, you 453 @@ -2161,11 +2161,11 @@ know? 454 00:22:19,048 --> 00:22:22,288 Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I try to -make it obviously, you know? a +make it obvious, you know? a 455 00:22:22,288 --> 00:22:23,488 -headache, like here you go. +heading, like here you go. 456 00:22:23,823 --> 00:22:24,262 @@ -2197,7 +2197,7 @@ almost a really good convention 462 00:22:37,127 --> 00:22:39,887 to build into something so I -could see, um, Like software +could see, Like software 463 00:22:39,887 --> 00:22:42,647 @@ -2205,7 +2205,7 @@ that 464 00:22:42,647 --> 00:22:47,928 -hosts tech blogging, like, uh, +hosts tech blogging, like, tech blogging platforms. be 465 @@ -2225,7 +2225,7 @@ you can add the thing then that 468 00:22:56,508 --> 00:22:59,327 way it already, everybody knows -where they should look Okay. +where they should look for Okay. 469 00:22:59,327 --> 00:23:02,146 @@ -2252,7 +2252,7 @@ deliberate decision to recognize 474 00:23:15,657 --> 00:23:20,667 -who their audience is what they +who their audience is and what they should already know coming into 475 @@ -2436,7 +2436,7 @@ could 513 00:24:58,772 --> 00:25:00,972 -forget, um, you know, the, what +forget, you know, the, what it feels like to be a beginner 514 @@ -2463,7 +2463,7 @@ becomes, 519 00:25:09,823 --> 00:25:11,392 -easier. but, um, yeah, it's, +easier. but, yeah, it's, it's hard to, it's hard 520 @@ -2481,7 +2481,7 @@ career, 523 00:25:16,903 --> 00:25:20,863 -uh, to put yourself back into +to put yourself back into spot, you know, the like total 524 @@ -2494,7 +2494,7 @@ Jessica: Right. Exactly. 526 00:25:23,532 --> 00:25:26,053 -Dan: like, I, I can remember it, +Dan: like, I, I can't remember it, you know, if I, if I make my, 527 @@ -2523,7 +2523,7 @@ time. Like I 532 00:25:33,702 --> 00:25:35,370 was like learning it all at the -same time and understand how +same time and tottally didn't understand how 533 00:25:35,370 --> 00:25:37,038 @@ -2559,7 +2559,7 @@ it 540 00:25:48,798 --> 00:25:53,147 -it's, uh, yeah, it can be a, a +it's, yeah, it can be a, a hard thing to, to remember, but 541 @@ -2601,7 +2601,7 @@ that. Yeah. 549 00:26:12,452 --> 00:26:14,372 -Bekah: accomplishment. So I +Bekah: That's a major accomplishment. So I don't want to lose that. so tell 550 @@ -2642,7 +2642,7 @@ of bounce 558 00:26:32,452 --> 00:26:34,312 -around different. Uh, resources, +around different. Resources, and then you try to find one 559 @@ -2686,7 +2686,7 @@ beginners that be kind of cool. 567 00:26:54,518 --> 00:26:57,788 And some other developers just -talk with them. As I originally, +talk with them. And so I originally, 568 00:26:57,788 --> 00:26:59,917 @@ -2740,7 +2740,7 @@ moderator team and start writing 578 00:27:32,057 --> 00:27:35,988 -for freeCodeCamp is a volunteer. +for freeCodeCamp as a volunteer. Okay. I don't know what to write 579 @@ -2769,13 +2769,13 @@ one was about what I enjoyed 584 00:27:49,607 --> 00:27:53,057 -about being a beginner. I wrote +about being a beginner. And I wrote one article about the parallels 585 00:27:53,057 --> 00:27:58,008 -between music and. Uh, uh, -blending code and programming. +between music and. +learning code and programming. 586 00:27:58,188 --> 00:28:02,327 @@ -2827,7 +2827,7 @@ and says, 596 00:28:22,087 --> 00:28:24,817 well, I've got another -proposition for you. Um, do you +proposition for you. do you 597 00:28:24,817 --> 00:28:27,938 @@ -2895,7 +2895,7 @@ could pick articles you feel 610 00:29:03,327 --> 00:29:06,958 comfortable with. And so he had -this whole Trello board uh, +this whole Trello board, 611 00:29:06,988 --> 00:29:10,498 @@ -2905,11 +2905,11 @@ which ones I felt comfortable 612 00:29:10,498 --> 00:29:13,377 with. So I picked all the HTML, -CSS, wines, I think maybe a +CSS, ones, I think maybe a 613 00:29:13,377 --> 00:29:17,127 -couple of JavaScript ones, um, +couple of JavaScript ones, and just started from there. And 614 @@ -2919,8 +2919,8 @@ and getting paid per article on 615 00:29:20,488 --> 00:29:26,137 -my own schedule and, uh, around -July. Uh, it was interesting +my own schedule and, around +July. It was interesting 616 00:29:26,167 --> 00:29:29,887 @@ -2930,7 +2930,7 @@ actually wanted this to be a 617 00:29:29,887 --> 00:29:33,728 full-time career or not. And, -um, an opportunity came up with +an opportunity came up with 618 00:29:33,728 --> 00:29:38,428 @@ -2952,7 +2952,7 @@ other story in of itself, which 622 00:29:44,347 --> 00:29:46,077 -we could cover. But, uh, but +we could cover. But, but yeah, so then I was like, okay, 623 @@ -2972,7 +2972,7 @@ said, Hey, I've got a job for 626 00:29:54,087 --> 00:29:58,337 you. I want you to join my team -officially you know, be, uh, +officially you know, be, 627 00:29:58,397 --> 00:29:59,807 @@ -2994,7 +2994,7 @@ opens 631 00:30:05,448 --> 00:30:09,988 -around. Uh, I started officially +around. I started officially in August of 2021. Writing 632 @@ -3023,7 +3023,7 @@ send us like 10 or 12 different 637 00:30:22,647 --> 00:30:25,252 -headlines a time. And then. we +headlines at a time. And then. we just write. basically we 638 @@ -3032,7 +3032,7 @@ research 639 00:30:27,857 --> 00:30:31,127 -and write. Uh, so right now I +and write. So right now I have a whole bunch of SQL 640 @@ -3051,13 +3051,13 @@ more JavaScript articles that I 643 00:30:38,837 --> 00:30:41,798 -have leftover that you get to +have leftover that I need to write about. But Yeah. that's, 644 00:30:41,798 --> 00:30:45,468 that's kinda my story. How I, -weird story, how I wound up at +my weird story, how I wound up at 645 00:30:45,468 --> 00:30:46,288 @@ -3071,7 +3071,7 @@ you actually answered it at the 647 00:30:48,692 --> 00:30:51,032 end of a question I was going to -ask was, um, you know, how to +ask was, you know, how to 648 00:30:51,032 --> 00:30:54,393 @@ -3080,7 +3080,7 @@ writing is, you know, your main 649 00:30:54,452 --> 00:30:56,913 -job, um, how to balance actually +job, how to balance actually learning, you know, whilst 650 @@ -3150,7 +3150,7 @@ articles. Another one was asked 664 00:31:26,502 --> 00:31:30,492 -to write C, uh, C++, and learn +to write C, C++, and learn that. we're all down for just 665 @@ -3168,7 +3168,7 @@ Bekah: I love that much. 668 00:31:37,103 --> 00:31:37,333 -Dan: That's +Dan: That's Awesome 669 00:31:38,018 --> 00:31:38,678 @@ -3322,12 +3322,12 @@ forum. He's like, Hey, I'm 701 00:33:04,712 --> 00:33:07,798 -looking for a junior. Yeah. Uh, -junior and what, +looking for a junior. Yeah. +A junior in what? 702 00:33:08,942 --> 00:33:09,123 -Dan: Um, + 703 00:33:09,208 --> 00:33:12,597 @@ -3361,7 +3361,7 @@ brain is split in two different 709 00:33:27,489 --> 00:33:29,693 directions of where to go here. -Um, I'm a, Dan is you want to +I'm a, Dan is you want to 710 00:33:29,693 --> 00:33:31,897 @@ -3380,7 +3380,7 @@ left one. 713 00:33:37,513 --> 00:33:41,473 Bekah: The left one. Okay. My -left one was, um, thinking about +left one was, thinking about 714 00:33:41,473 --> 00:33:45,973 @@ -3413,7 +3413,7 @@ coding or, or find yourself 720 00:33:57,344 --> 00:34:01,423 somewhere in the middle or just -see this as of a tangent of your +see this as part of a tangent of your 721 00:34:01,493 --> 00:34:01,953 @@ -3441,7 +3441,7 @@ still 726 00:34:12,829 --> 00:34:16,369 be involved, especially with -freeCodeCamp, it's still write +freeCodeCamp, and still write 727 00:34:16,369 --> 00:34:18,093 @@ -3472,7 +3472,7 @@ ideas 733 00:34:29,273 --> 00:34:31,658 -for music related, uh, tech that +for music related, tech that I want to build. And some of 734 @@ -3495,7 +3495,7 @@ Bekah: are my favorite. 738 00:34:39,153 --> 00:34:40,453 Jessica: I guess That's the -entrepreneurship maybe where +entrepreneurship in me where 739 00:34:40,453 --> 00:34:41,753 @@ -3554,7 +3554,7 @@ idea for a monthly challenge, I 751 00:35:07,463 --> 00:35:09,728 think we have a big energy -channel in slack. And a lot of +channel in Slack. And a lot of 752 00:35:09,728 --> 00:35:11,993 @@ -3562,7 +3562,7 @@ it 753 00:35:11,994 --> 00:35:19,494 -is just GIF's, um, to bring us +is just GIF's, to bring us big energy. But I really think 754 @@ -3691,7 +3691,7 @@ have this sheet music business 780 00:36:24,353 --> 00:36:28,204 that he just got started and she -was. Y I'm like, oh, okay. Well, +was. Why I'm like, oh, okay. Well, 781 00:36:29,403 --> 00:36:33,333 @@ -3703,9 +3703,6 @@ little taken aback. I was like, okay, great. Well, this conversation won't last long, -783 -00:36:35,448 --> 00:36:37,563 -uh, 784 00:36:37,623 --> 00:36:40,324 @@ -3793,7 +3790,7 @@ and where is Anaheim and Well, 802 00:37:16,409 --> 00:37:17,429 -people were wrong then. +people were wrong there. 803 00:37:20,003 --> 00:37:21,844 @@ -3845,7 +3842,7 @@ things cause it's like, Yeah, it 813 00:37:44,818 --> 00:37:47,588 -either works out or it does it. +either works out or it doesn't it. And if it doesn't work out, I 814 @@ -3869,7 +3866,7 @@ it. You can't really play safe 818 00:37:57,789 --> 00:38:00,438 -and, and um, you know what to do +and, and, you know what to do too risky. You don't want to go 819 @@ -3903,7 +3900,7 @@ me think of a Structured YOLO. 825 00:38:16,989 --> 00:38:20,528 -Uh, Nick Taylor, um, which is a +Nick Taylor, which is a phrase he, he coined, you know, 826 @@ -3917,7 +3914,7 @@ mean, 828 00:38:25,059 --> 00:38:27,998 -don't want to do YOLO, right. +don't want to go full YOLO, right. But the 829 @@ -4008,7 +4005,7 @@ that? You know, but the 848 00:39:03,039 --> 00:39:04,988 -willingness to, um, jump into +willingness to, jump into it, you know, and, and push 849 @@ -4017,7 +4014,7 @@ through, 850 00:39:06,969 --> 00:39:09,278 -I think is, uh, a, know, a +I think is, a, know, a valuable, valuable trait to 851 @@ -4027,11 +4024,11 @@ have, 852 00:39:11,588 --> 00:39:13,498 you know, and obviously it's -served use or do. +served you, served you really well. 853 00:39:16,043 --> 00:39:22,224 -Bekah: So sometimes, um, it can +Bekah: So sometimes, it can be really challenging to write. 854 @@ -4047,7 +4044,7 @@ editor or somebody who has 856 00:39:33,628 --> 00:39:42,369 commented on your posts in a way -that is not, um, kind So how do +that is not, kind So how do 857 00:39:42,369 --> 00:39:45,838 @@ -4090,17 +4087,17 @@ separate them between actual, 865 00:40:02,824 --> 00:40:06,893 constructive feedback versus. -this is not helpful. I'm just +ok this is not helpful. I'm just 866 00:40:06,893 --> 00:40:09,983 going to move on. And so I've -had, uh, some constructive +had, some constructive 867 00:40:09,983 --> 00:40:13,643 feedback, like, oh, this is -really good. could you like, uh, +really good. could you like, 868 00:40:13,793 --> 00:40:17,213 @@ -4134,7 +4131,7 @@ comments I'm like, okay, well 874 00:40:27,983 --> 00:40:32,003 you're an obviously not helpful. -And so I just learned that, uh, +And so I just learned that, 875 00:40:32,003 --> 00:40:33,558 @@ -4162,12 +4159,12 @@ had too many just absolutely 880 00:40:46,003 --> 00:40:49,063 -horrific things. Uh, at least +horrific things. at least with my programming writing, 881 00:40:49,094 --> 00:40:52,514 -there was only one incident, um, +there was only one incident, that I had when I was running my 882 @@ -4196,7 +4193,7 @@ keep creating new accounts of 887 00:41:06,793 --> 00:41:08,723 -like, you're that threatened +like, you're that threatened by what I'm doing, that you have to 888 @@ -4224,7 +4221,7 @@ it's a it's, it's okay to be 893 00:41:22,474 --> 00:41:24,343 -human. Yeah. Uh, you know, feel +human. Yeah. you know, feel that and go, well, come on. 894 @@ -4252,7 +4249,7 @@ just 899 00:41:32,454 --> 00:41:34,673 trying to block them and move -on? Um, and, and just focus on +on? and, and just focus on 900 00:41:34,673 --> 00:41:36,892 @@ -4274,7 +4271,7 @@ track, you're doing the right 904 00:41:42,623 --> 00:41:42,744 -thing. +thing there. 905 00:41:44,963 --> 00:41:46,313 @@ -4330,7 +4327,7 @@ two 916 00:42:12,969 --> 00:42:17,119 people like it versus the thing -that I, I YOLO'd on a Saturday +that I, I YOLO'ed on a Saturday 917 00:42:17,139 --> 00:42:20,378 @@ -4339,7 +4336,7 @@ these hits and like, what, what 918 00:42:20,378 --> 00:42:21,248 -is this. +is this? 919 00:42:22,059 --> 00:42:24,998 @@ -4368,7 +4365,7 @@ like 924 00:42:34,293 --> 00:42:38,134 nothing. I'm like, okay, wildly -misjudge that. And then I'll +misjudged that. And then I'll 925 00:42:38,134 --> 00:42:40,773 @@ -4398,7 +4395,7 @@ Replit articles, because I 930 00:42:53,253 --> 00:42:54,903 decided to write those because -free cookie up uses both of +freeCodeCamp up uses both of 931 00:42:54,903 --> 00:42:56,553 @@ -4406,7 +4403,7 @@ those 932 00:42:56,554 --> 00:42:59,998 -tools, um, in their +tools, in their certifications. There really 933 @@ -4440,7 +4437,7 @@ cool. 939 00:43:17,081 --> 00:43:21,608 -Dan: Do you ever um, like doing +Dan: Do you ever, like doing tech support comments, you know, 940 @@ -4494,11 +4491,11 @@ that up, that you should be good 950 00:43:43,739 --> 00:43:47,829 to go. It's a. Sometimes just -kind of, uh, or actually this +kind of, or actually this 951 00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:50,679 -just happened to, with, uh, the +just happened to, with, the NodeMailer article where they're 952 @@ -4523,7 +4520,7 @@ without 956 00:43:59,858 --> 00:44:03,548 thinking, like people would want -to study it and uh, you know, +to study it and, you know, 957 00:44:03,548 --> 00:44:06,068 @@ -4533,7 +4530,7 @@ I was like, oh yeah, we should 958 00:44:06,068 --> 00:44:10,088 probably do that. So I created a -GitHub repository and then, uh, +GitHub repository and then, 959 00:44:10,119 --> 00:44:11,768 @@ -4543,11 +4540,11 @@ sometimes I'll kind of 960 00:44:11,768 --> 00:44:14,018 troubleshoot with them as best -as possible. My questions are +as possible. but sometimes 961 00:44:14,018 --> 00:44:16,268 -vague. +their questions are vague. 962 00:44:16,298 --> 00:44:19,719 @@ -4570,23 +4567,23 @@ Well, I think. 966 00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:33,518 -Dan: Uh, what about, so you +Dan: What about, so you mentioned like code stuff like 967 00:44:33,518 --> 00:44:38,409 -that. kind of, um, I dunno +that. kind of, I dunno process, or I guess I'm looking 968 00:44:38,409 --> 00:44:43,313 for advice generally. if, you if -if your, uh,article Involves a +if your, article Involves a 969 00:44:43,313 --> 00:44:45,473 lot of code and stuff like that. -Do you try to, um, like things +Do you try to, like things 970 00:44:45,473 --> 00:44:47,633 @@ -4599,12 +4596,12 @@ to Like, you know, like you 972 00:44:51,204 --> 00:44:53,574 -mentioned, uh, what, what kind +mentioned, what, what kind of, of approaches do you take 973 00:44:53,574 --> 00:44:56,213 -with, uh, w with technical +with, w with technical articles and with 974 @@ -4618,17 +4615,17 @@ small, 976 00:45:00,143 --> 00:45:04,494 -like I just wrote one about, um, +like I just wrote one about, JavaScript contains or includes 977 00:45:04,494 --> 00:45:07,704 -method. Um, and so those were -like really, really small, um, +method. and so those were +like really, really small, 978 00:45:07,824 --> 00:45:09,443 -uh, code examples in there. But +code examples in there. But then one of my other articles 979 @@ -4667,12 +4664,12 @@ it? So it ended up working where 986 00:45:29,449 --> 00:45:33,384 I said, okay, it's fine. If they -do. Work with that particular +don't. Work with that particular 987 00:45:33,384 --> 00:45:35,543 stack that I was working with -and I was working with the burn +and I was working with the MERN 988 00:45:35,543 --> 00:45:38,664 @@ -4767,7 +4764,7 @@ types 1007 00:46:23,489 --> 00:46:25,784 of like free courses you could -take. but, uh, yeah, I try to +take. but, yeah, I try to 1008 00:46:25,784 --> 00:46:28,079 @@ -4799,7 +4796,7 @@ that. 1014 00:46:43,403 --> 00:46:44,828 -Dan: Oh, a good note. I mean, +Dan: Oh, that's a good note. I mean, and that's also an interesting 1015 @@ -4808,7 +4805,7 @@ thing 1016 00:46:46,253 --> 00:46:52,539 -to like of, you know, um, +to like of, you know, writing, you. If you could feel 1017 @@ -4859,7 +4856,7 @@ and then just hadn't used it for 1027 00:47:16,184 --> 00:47:19,643 awhile then, like rejoined, I -guess. uh, for the NodeMailer +guess. for the NodeMailer 1028 00:47:19,664 --> 00:47:22,833 @@ -4868,8 +4865,8 @@ have these ideas about how to 1029 00:47:22,833 --> 00:47:24,888 -style the emails and how to, uh, -actually, uh, you know, deploy +style the emails and how to, +actually, you know, deploy 1030 00:47:24,888 --> 00:47:26,943 @@ -4887,7 +4884,7 @@ be 1033 00:47:29,193 --> 00:47:30,933 a separate article. And I like -how in-depth too, you can link +how in DEV.to, you can link 1034 00:47:30,933 --> 00:47:32,673 @@ -4934,7 +4931,7 @@ with videos. I think some of the 1043 00:47:54,349 --> 00:47:58,099 -videos are super long and some +videos are super long on some of these channels 1044 @@ -5002,7 +4999,7 @@ of hearing myself talk, like, I 1057 00:48:35,998 --> 00:48:38,159 can't imagine how everybody else -was feeling. You +was feeling. You know 1058 00:48:38,219 --> 00:48:38,789 @@ -5059,7 +5056,7 @@ then there's still like hundreds 1069 00:49:08,148 --> 00:49:12,079 of people and I'm just like, -wow, that's kudos to him then. +wow, that's kudos to him there. 1070 00:49:14,429 --> 00:49:15,659 @@ -5091,7 +5088,7 @@ know 1076 00:49:30,324 --> 00:49:35,773 -a teacher who was taking classes +a teacher who was taking voice classes for that reason, because they 1077 @@ -5168,7 +5165,7 @@ the meat of the article and kind 1092 00:50:15,003 --> 00:50:19,023 -of flesh it out. Um, and then +of flesh it out. and then once I clean up the actual main 1093 @@ -5183,7 +5180,7 @@ conclusion there I try to focus 1095 00:50:25,384 --> 00:50:29,824 -all my intention, uh, you know, +all my intention, you know, just writing the main parts. And 1096 @@ -5268,7 +5265,7 @@ go, what is this? 1113 00:51:08,463 --> 00:51:10,864 Dan: There's one of the benefits -of the medium, right? Is do you +of the writing medium, right? Is do you 1114 00:51:10,864 --> 00:51:14,733 @@ -5303,11 +5300,11 @@ streaming, so 1121 00:51:23,474 --> 00:51:23,914 -Dan: for sure. +Dan: no, for sure. 1122 00:51:24,974 --> 00:51:29,300 -Bekah: acceptable thing. Um, I +Bekah: acceptable thing. I can't remember what to say. Oh, 1123 @@ -5316,7 +5313,7 @@ I 1124 00:51:33,626 --> 00:51:36,539 -know what I was gonna say. Um, +know what I was gonna say. Rough drafts are so important. 1125 @@ -5349,12 +5346,12 @@ process and it does take time. 1131 00:51:55,097 --> 00:51:59,206 -You know, just listening to you +But You know, just listening to you talk about tech, Jessica, you 1132 00:51:59,237 --> 00:52:04,967 -communicate it so well. it's +communicate it so wellthat it's really, I feel like I learned a 1133 @@ -5375,7 +5372,7 @@ about things. And I imagine it, 1136 00:52:16,936 --> 00:52:18,991 that goes into interviewing and -stuff like that. Because you +stuff like that. Because if you 1137 00:52:18,991 --> 00:52:21,046 @@ -5384,7 +5381,7 @@ talk 1138 00:52:21,047 --> 00:52:22,797 with credibility, then people -are more likely to. Um, see you +are more likely to. see you 1139 00:52:22,797 --> 00:52:24,547 @@ -5466,7 +5463,7 @@ started with writing? 1156 00:53:04,967 --> 00:53:09,737 -Jessica: Um, I think just the +Jessica: I think just the best tip is just, get started. I 1157 @@ -5505,11 +5502,11 @@ how 1164 00:53:22,876 --> 00:53:27,496 it really works it yet, or it -needs some help, but, uh, don't +needs some help, but, don't 1165 00:53:27,496 --> 00:53:31,211 -wait for the perfect. To get +wait for the perfect momnet. To get started writing? to just start 1166 @@ -5528,12 +5525,12 @@ it and edit it down from there. 1169 00:53:39,271 --> 00:53:41,221 -Bekah: Awesome. you so much for +Bekah: Awesome. thank you so much for being here with us today. This 1170 00:53:41,221 --> 00:53:43,171 -is +is really great 1171 00:53:43,257 --> 00:53:43,617 @@ -5568,9 +5565,13 @@ appreciate it. Bekah: Okay, bye. 1178 -00:53:56,851 --> 00:53:57,211 +00:53:56,851 --> 00:53:57,000 Jessica: Bye. +1178 +00:53:57,010 --> 00:53:57,211 +Dan: Bye. + 1179 00:54:01,023 --> 00:54:03,333 Dan: Thank you for listening to From e5e4f2d325f9b6b94eb71e167981acf2b93d08f1 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Chris Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 00:39:34 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 11/13] updating transcript, fixed blank timestamp. --- episodes/4_7.srt | 3022 ++++++++++++++++++++++++---------------------- 1 file changed, 1581 insertions(+), 1441 deletions(-) diff --git a/episodes/4_7.srt b/episodes/4_7.srt index 0a3d254..55db7d5 100644 --- a/episodes/4_7.srt +++ b/episodes/4_7.srt @@ -1,5644 +1,5784 @@ 1 -00:00:05,758 --> 00:00:07,452 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Hello and welcome to -season four, episode seven of +00:00:05,758 --> 00:00:06,605 +Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Hello and +welcome to season four, episode 2 +00:00:06,605 --> 00:00:07,452 +seven of + +3 00:00:07,452 --> 00:00:09,146 the -3 +4 00:00:09,147 --> 00:00:11,537 Virtual Coffee podcast. I'm Bekah. And this is a podcast -4 +5 00:00:11,537 --> 00:00:13,927 that -5 +6 00:00:13,928 --> 00:00:17,437 features members of the Virtual Coffee community. Virtual Coffee -6 +7 00:00:17,437 --> 00:00:18,757 is an intimate group of developers at all stages of -7 +8 00:00:18,757 --> 00:00:20,077 their -8 +9 00:00:20,077 --> 00:00:22,987 coding journey. And they're here on this podcast, sharing their -9 +10 00:00:22,987 --> 00:00:24,502 stories and what they've learned. And we're here to share -10 +11 00:00:24,502 --> 00:00:26,017 it with -11 +12 00:00:26,018 --> 00:00:29,047 you here with me today, is my cohost Dan. -12 -00:00:31,096 --> 00:00:33,795 -Dan Ott: Thanks Bekah. Today, we had -a great time hanging out with - 13 +00:00:31,096 --> 00:00:32,445 +Dan Ott: Thanks Bekah. Today, we +had a great time hanging out + +14 +00:00:32,445 --> 00:00:33,794 +with + +15 00:00:33,795 --> 00:00:37,426 Jessica Wilkins. Jessica is a self-taught developer and staff -14 +16 00:00:37,426 --> 00:00:39,345 author for the FreeCodeCamp news publication. Jessica talked -15 +17 00:00:39,345 --> 00:00:41,264 about -16 +18 00:00:41,295 --> 00:00:44,115 how to get started with tech writing, how to differentiate -17 +19 00:00:44,115 --> 00:00:46,635 between constructive criticism and negative feedback. And how -18 +20 00:00:46,635 --> 00:00:49,155 to -19 +21 00:00:49,155 --> 00:00:53,716 avoid things like gatekeeping in your tech writing by eliminating -20 +22 00:00:53,746 --> 00:00:57,886 assumptions about your audience. And avoiding terms, like -21 +23 00:00:58,305 --> 00:01:01,786 "it's so easy" and "just do this." she gave some tips, -22 +24 00:01:01,786 --> 00:01:04,695 like adding a prerequisites to your posts or, other -23 +25 00:01:04,725 --> 00:01:10,635 -resources. Basically, -Outlined her entire process for +resources. Basically, Outlined +her entire process for -24 +26 00:01:10,665 --> 00:01:13,846 all of her tech writing that she does. And, she does a lot of -25 +27 00:01:13,846 --> 00:01:16,995 it and it's all pretty awesome. it was a really great -26 +28 00:01:17,025 --> 00:01:19,906 -conversation and i know you were +conversation and I know you were going to enjoy it. -27 +29 00:01:20,287 --> 00:01:22,867 Bekah: We start every episode of the podcast. Like we start every -28 +30 00:01:22,867 --> 00:01:25,987 Virtual Coffee. We introduce ourselves with our name, where -29 +31 00:01:25,987 --> 00:01:27,832 we're from, what we do and a random check-in question. We -30 +32 00:01:27,832 --> 00:01:29,677 hope -31 -00:01:29,677 --> 00:01:40,533 -you enjoy this episode. [music] My name -is Bekah. I am a front end +33 +00:01:29,677 --> 00:01:35,105 +you enjoy this episode. [music] +My name is Bekah. I am a front -32 +34 +00:01:35,105 --> 00:01:40,533 +end + +35 00:01:40,533 --> 00:01:44,222 developer from a small town in Ohio, and my favorite childhood -33 +36 00:01:44,222 --> 00:01:45,722 movie was Beauty and the Beast. -34 +37 00:01:47,322 --> 00:01:51,343 Dan: That's a good one. Hi, my name is Dan. I am a front end -35 +38 00:01:51,343 --> 00:01:56,143 developer from Cleveland, Ohio. And, yeah, my, my favorite -36 +39 00:01:56,143 --> 00:01:59,173 -movie is Star Wars. I think -if I had to pick one, it would, +movie is Star Wars. I think if I +had to pick one, it would, -37 +40 00:01:59,352 --> 00:02:02,352 it would be Return of the Jedi. yeah. As, as a child, I -38 +41 00:02:02,362 --> 00:02:06,692 watched that. just, just a lot. So it's easy choice for me. -39 +42 00:02:06,798 --> 00:02:07,668 Bekah: It's a solid choice. -40 -00:02:08,897 --> 00:02:13,638 -Jessica Wilkins: Sounds pretty good. Hi, -I am Jessica Wilkins and I am a +43 +00:02:08,897 --> 00:02:11,267 +Jessica Wilkins: Sounds pretty +good. Hi, I am Jessica Wilkins -41 +44 +00:02:11,267 --> 00:02:13,637 +and I am a + +45 00:02:13,638 --> 00:02:17,418 musician learning how to code. I am also a technical writer for -42 +46 00:02:17,418 --> 00:02:21,948 FreeCodeCamp News. my favorite movie was actually the Toy Story -43 +47 00:02:21,948 --> 00:02:23,868 movies. And so the original one, but all four of them are -44 +48 00:02:23,868 --> 00:02:25,788 amazing there. -45 -00:02:26,992 --> 00:02:28,457 -Dan: Nice, those are on big rotation -at our house with, with our +49 +00:02:26,992 --> 00:02:27,724 +Dan: Nice, those are on big +rotation at our house with, with -46 +50 +00:02:27,724 --> 00:02:28,456 +our + +51 00:02:28,457 --> 00:02:29,922 kids. -47 +52 00:02:29,923 --> 00:02:32,103 We also enjoy them. They're [crosstalk] solid. -48 +53 00:02:32,103 --> 00:02:35,818 Jessica: I totally cried. When Andy went to college, I bawled -49 +54 00:02:35,848 --> 00:02:38,877 -like a little baby. I'm like, -oh my gosh, he can't leave. And +like a little baby. I'm like, oh +my gosh, he can't leave. And -50 +55 00:02:38,877 --> 00:02:42,568 then he was giving his toys to the little girl. I'm like, I -51 +56 00:02:42,568 --> 00:02:43,728 mean, teary-eyed now. -52 +57 00:02:43,728 --> 00:02:43,948 Dan: Yes. -53 +58 00:02:44,207 --> 00:02:44,518 Jessica: ya know? -54 +59 00:02:44,927 --> 00:02:45,897 Dan: I actually tried to discourage that. That's I -55 +60 00:02:45,897 --> 00:02:46,867 Toy Story -56 +61 00:02:46,867 --> 00:02:49,048 three. I tried to actually discourage Toy Story 3 just -57 +62 00:02:49,048 --> 00:02:52,298 because it. It's very good. It's about it is emotionally, -58 +63 00:02:52,418 --> 00:02:52,867 affecting -59 +64 00:02:53,568 --> 00:02:53,747 Jessica: Right, -60 +65 00:02:53,798 --> 00:02:54,397 Dan: absolutely. -61 +66 00:02:54,812 --> 00:02:57,752 Bekah: my oldest is 12 and he'll look at me and be like, are you -62 +67 00:02:57,752 --> 00:03:00,272 crying? yes. -63 +68 00:03:00,782 --> 00:03:02,902 Jessica: It's very sad. We grew up with Andy. -64 +69 00:03:04,133 --> 00:03:07,492 Dan: Dude, I entertainment. Like it takes on a whole new slant -65 +70 00:03:07,492 --> 00:03:10,402 when, especially when you have kids. Cause like I just find -66 +71 00:03:10,402 --> 00:03:13,223 -myself being, you know, -affected by this stuff in +myself being, you know, affected +by this stuff in -67 +72 00:03:13,223 --> 00:03:16,342 different ways, you know? And it's like, I don't it's matter. -68 +73 00:03:16,372 --> 00:03:16,733 It's cool. -69 +74 00:03:17,772 --> 00:03:23,117 Bekah: It's been wild rereading novels. I read. As like a young -70 -00:03:23,117 --> 00:03:29,867 +75 +00:03:23,117 --> 00:03:26,492 adult to my kids. I, because I -always loved young adult fiction and I +always loved young adult fiction -71 +76 +00:03:26,492 --> 00:03:29,867 +and I + +77 00:03:29,867 --> 00:03:35,027 always loved the young adult character. Right. And now as a -72 +78 00:03:35,027 --> 00:03:40,068 parent, when I read it, I with the parents and the novels and -73 +79 00:03:40,068 --> 00:03:42,707 I'm like, oh, they don't understand what they're doing to -74 +80 00:03:42,707 --> 00:03:47,867 their parents. So, yeah, it's very different, lots of crying -75 +81 00:03:47,867 --> 00:03:49,358 -and young adult novel reading too. +and young adult novel reading +too. -76 +82 00:03:49,358 --> 00:03:53,043 Dan: Yeah. at some point I realized it with Calvin and -77 +83 00:03:53,043 --> 00:03:56,342 Hobbes. I was a big Calvin and Hobbes fan Growing up and found -78 +84 00:03:56,342 --> 00:03:59,492 myself recently, you know, identifying much more with -79 +85 00:04:02,052 --> 00:04:02,962 the parents. Anyway, -80 +86 00:04:03,872 --> 00:04:05,372 -Bekah: Welcome. Jessica it's -so great to have you here with +Bekah: Welcome. Jessica it's so +great to have you here with -81 +87 00:04:05,372 --> 00:04:06,872 us -82 +88 00:04:06,872 --> 00:04:09,437 today, because we did a lunch and learn recently with Jessica -83 +89 00:04:09,437 --> 00:04:12,002 and -84 +90 00:04:12,002 --> 00:04:13,412 we'll put the link to that in the show notes. And she did such -85 +91 00:04:13,412 --> 00:04:14,822 a -86 +92 00:04:14,823 --> 00:04:17,298 good job about talking us through writing and writing -87 +93 00:04:17,298 --> 00:04:19,773 career. And -88 +94 00:04:19,802 --> 00:04:23,072 it is our monthly challenge this month, every month we hold a -89 +95 00:04:23,072 --> 00:04:26,492 monthly challenge, in the community is welcome to do it. -90 +96 00:04:26,492 --> 00:04:30,468 And this is. The one-year anniversary of when we started -91 +97 00:04:30,468 --> 00:04:34,098 monthly challenges. And so it's one of my favorites. It's the -92 +98 00:04:34,098 --> 00:04:38,148 blog writing challenge and it's based off of NaNoWriMo national -93 +99 00:04:38,148 --> 00:04:44,867 novel writing month. And so Jessica is just an amazing -94 +100 00:04:44,927 --> 00:04:51,017 writer. And we kicked off the blogging challenge and our goal -95 +101 00:04:51,017 --> 00:04:55,757 was hit 50,000 words. That's what, as a community, that's -96 +102 00:04:55,757 --> 00:04:57,062 what it was last year. We didn't quite make it. We almost made -97 +103 00:04:57,062 --> 00:04:58,367 it, -98 -00:04:58,968 --> 00:05:03,348 -but this year in, today is Tuesday, -November 9th. We have already +104 +00:04:58,968 --> 00:05:01,158 +but this year in, today is +Tuesday, November 9th. We have -99 +105 +00:05:01,158 --> 00:05:03,348 +already + +106 00:05:03,918 --> 00:05:06,408 have we? where are we at? We're past halfway. -100 +107 00:05:06,947 --> 00:05:10,367 Jessica: I think we're at 27,000, I think. Yeah. -101 +108 00:05:10,908 --> 00:05:13,307 Bekah: and largely in part due to Jessica -102 +109 00:05:13,408 --> 00:05:15,452 Dan: Yep. Over well, over 28,000. Yeah. -103 +110 00:05:15,577 --> 00:05:16,208 Jessica: Oh, cool. cool. -104 +111 00:05:17,148 --> 00:05:18,857 Bekah: So extra happy to have you here to talk about this -105 +112 00:05:18,857 --> 00:05:20,566 challenge -106 +113 00:05:20,567 --> 00:05:24,197 with us. But before we jump into that, we always like to get your -107 +114 00:05:24,197 --> 00:05:28,487 origin story and you have a awesome one. So tell us a little -108 +115 00:05:28,487 --> 00:05:32,517 bit about how you got to this point in your career. -109 +116 00:05:33,127 --> 00:05:36,603 Jessica: Yeah. it's definitely unique there. So I grew up in -110 +117 00:05:36,603 --> 00:05:38,147 Southern California. I grew up in a town called Palm Springs, -111 +118 00:05:38,147 --> 00:05:39,691 which -112 +119 00:05:39,692 --> 00:05:42,212 is like two hours south of Los Angeles in California there. -113 +120 00:05:42,212 --> 00:05:44,732 And, -114 +121 00:05:44,793 --> 00:05:47,297 -grew up with a single mom -who was a teacher. And so. I +grew up with a single mom who +was a teacher. And so. I -115 +122 00:05:47,297 --> 00:05:49,801 got -116 +123 00:05:49,802 --> 00:05:54,213 into a music pretty early at seven, and then just kind of -117 +124 00:05:54,213 --> 00:05:56,822 stuck with it. And it pretty early on, I decided I'm going to -118 +125 00:05:56,822 --> 00:06:00,632 -be a professional musician. -and so I started with piano and +be a professional musician. and +so I started with piano and -119 +126 00:06:00,632 --> 00:06:02,597 then I at 11 started learning the oboe, which is like a -120 +127 00:06:02,597 --> 00:06:04,562 woodwind -121 +128 00:06:04,562 --> 00:06:08,642 instrument. And I. At first didn't really like it. Cause I -122 +129 00:06:08,642 --> 00:06:09,752 -didn't sound that good at it, [chuckles] +didn't sound that good at it, +[chuckles] -123 +130 00:06:10,577 --> 00:06:10,757 Dan: Yeah. -124 +131 00:06:10,923 --> 00:06:12,182 Jessica: then I started to kind of get into it. I was like, -125 +132 00:06:12,182 --> 00:06:13,441 okay, -126 +133 00:06:13,442 --> 00:06:15,723 cool. So then I started doing like festivals and private -127 +134 00:06:15,723 --> 00:06:19,202 lessons and all that fun stuff. And I decided like 15, I'm going -128 +135 00:06:19,202 --> 00:06:21,482 to go, try to go to music school or conservatory. And go down -129 +136 00:06:21,482 --> 00:06:23,762 that -130 +137 00:06:23,762 --> 00:06:27,273 route and be a classical professional musician. and so, -131 +138 00:06:27,273 --> 00:06:31,142 when I graduated from college or from high school, I went on to -132 +139 00:06:31,353 --> 00:06:33,348 Eastman School of Music, which is in Rochester, New York, -133 +140 00:06:33,348 --> 00:06:35,343 and -134 +141 00:06:35,343 --> 00:06:39,002 study there for four years on oboe performance. And then I -135 +142 00:06:39,033 --> 00:06:42,093 graduated and went on to a Master's at University of -136 +143 00:06:42,093 --> 00:06:44,683 Michigan, which is in Ann Arbor. and then after that, I decided -137 +144 00:06:44,683 --> 00:06:47,273 to -138 +145 00:06:47,312 --> 00:06:50,478 Southern California because the cold was just not agreeing with -139 +146 00:06:50,478 --> 00:06:52,353 me. So after six years of really cold weather, I was like, no -140 +147 00:06:52,353 --> 00:06:54,228 hard -141 +148 00:06:54,228 --> 00:06:58,517 pass. Let's go back to Southern California. So I came back and -142 +149 00:06:58,608 --> 00:07:00,828 decided that I wanted to start my own sheet music company and -143 +150 00:07:00,828 --> 00:07:03,048 run -144 +151 00:07:03,048 --> 00:07:08,362 -that. And then also, perform -and freelance and so. from +that. And then also, perform and +freelance and so. from -145 +152 00:07:08,362 --> 00:07:14,723 2015 to 2020, all I did was perform and record and run my -146 +153 00:07:14,723 --> 00:07:18,413 sheet music company and teach. And so I was kind of busy with -147 +154 00:07:18,413 --> 00:07:21,068 all that fun stuff. And then 2020 happened and everything -148 +155 00:07:21,068 --> 00:07:23,723 [chuckles] changed. -149 +156 00:07:23,723 --> 00:07:28,642 So for everybody, but me, it was just okay, go home. And there's -150 +157 00:07:28,642 --> 00:07:32,028 no work for you. and I'm like Great. So what am I supposed to -151 +158 00:07:32,028 --> 00:07:36,317 do now? So I just worked on the business and try to keep that -152 +159 00:07:36,557 --> 00:07:38,612 going and afloat and changing there, for a few months. But -153 +160 00:07:38,612 --> 00:07:40,667 then -154 +161 00:07:40,668 --> 00:07:45,617 -in June of 2020, you know, -US was going through a lot with +in June of 2020, you know, US +was going through a lot with -155 +162 00:07:45,648 --> 00:07:50,377 COVID and then race relations with the George Floyd murder And -156 +163 00:07:50,403 --> 00:07:54,093 so a lot of people were talking about diversity issues within -157 +164 00:07:54,093 --> 00:07:56,913 many industries, including myself, right? My industry with -158 +165 00:07:56,913 --> 00:07:58,547 the classical world of operas and orchestras, cause there's a -159 +166 00:07:58,547 --> 00:08:00,181 huge -160 +167 00:08:00,182 --> 00:08:02,282 -diversity problem, with, -with black representation, +diversity problem, with, with +black representation, -161 +168 00:08:02,282 --> 00:08:04,382 especially. -162 +169 00:08:04,382 --> 00:08:06,427 And so people were asking me. Yeah. Can you give me -163 +170 00:08:06,427 --> 00:08:08,472 information -164 +171 00:08:08,473 --> 00:08:10,797 about composers I can learn about so we can start to change. -165 +172 00:08:10,797 --> 00:08:13,121 And I -166 +173 00:08:13,122 --> 00:08:15,103 decided there should be a website. Like there should just -167 +174 00:08:15,103 --> 00:08:18,673 be one place where people can find all this stuff. I, I was -168 +175 00:08:18,673 --> 00:08:20,443 like, well, maybe could build it. I've never built anything. -169 +176 00:08:20,443 --> 00:08:22,213 I've -170 +177 00:08:22,213 --> 00:08:23,878 never coded before, but Hey, we've got all this time, so -171 +178 00:08:23,878 --> 00:08:25,543 maybe -172 +179 00:08:25,543 --> 00:08:27,717 we'll learn and see what happens. So that's how I got -173 +180 00:08:27,717 --> 00:08:29,891 into -174 +181 00:08:30,043 --> 00:08:33,942 programming and been doing this for about a year and a half now. -175 +182 00:08:34,543 --> 00:08:37,137 Yeah, so that's kind of my origin story and how I got into, -176 +183 00:08:37,137 --> 00:08:39,731 where -177 +184 00:08:39,732 --> 00:08:40,182 I'm at now. -178 +185 00:08:41,633 --> 00:08:44,023 -Bekah: That's so awesome. Does that site -still exist out there? +Bekah: That's so awesome. Does +that site still exist out there? -179 +186 00:08:44,842 --> 00:08:46,987 Jessica: Yes, so I created, version one about six months -180 +187 00:08:46,987 --> 00:08:49,132 into -181 +188 00:08:49,133 --> 00:08:52,432 my learning and it's called the Black Excellence Music Project. -182 +189 00:08:52,913 --> 00:08:58,222 And I built that with HTML, CSS, and Vanilla JavaScript. and then -183 +190 00:08:58,222 --> 00:09:02,898 I revisited it a few months ago, over the summer of 2021 -184 +191 00:09:03,768 --> 00:09:07,067 create a version two, which was built with React and Tailwind -185 +192 00:09:07,067 --> 00:09:11,597 CSS, and has more artists and more games and all of this fun -186 -00:09:11,597 --> 00:09:15,378 -stuff. and yeah, so this was always -like a passion project. And so I +193 +00:09:11,597 --> 00:09:13,487 +stuff. and yeah, so this was +always like a passion project. -187 +194 +00:09:13,487 --> 00:09:15,377 +And so I + +195 00:09:15,378 --> 00:09:19,508 got into tech I wanted to switch careers. I thought initially in -188 +196 00:09:19,508 --> 00:09:22,187 June I was like, oh, this thing will just blow over eventually. -189 +197 00:09:22,187 --> 00:09:25,158 And I go back to my old life and yeah. Obviously not what -190 +198 00:09:25,158 --> 00:09:29,957 happened. I wildly miss, understood how COVID works. I -191 -00:09:29,957 --> 00:09:31,000 -totally thought this was just -going to be like a couple of - -191 -00:09:31,001 --> 00:09:31,005 +199 Bekah: same -191 -00:09:31,957 --> 00:09:32,388 +200 +00:09:31,005 --> 00:09:32,388 Dan: everyone did. -192 -00:09:32,388 --> 00:09:36,918 +201 +totally thought this was just +going to be like a couple of + +202 +00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,918 months and I was completely wrong. So, but, and then I ended -193 +203 00:09:36,918 --> 00:09:40,727 up starting to get developer work, and that was kinda -194 +204 00:09:40,758 --> 00:09:44,238 cool. And then I started writing -for freeCodeCamp, which was also +for FreeCodeCamp, which was also -195 +205 00:09:44,238 --> 00:09:45,828 kind of cool. and I was like, well, maybe I could have a -196 +206 00:09:45,828 --> 00:09:47,418 career -197 +207 00:09:47,418 --> 00:09:49,128 there. So yeah. -198 +208 00:09:49,648 --> 00:09:55,148 Bekah: That is so awesome. So, that project is an open -199 +209 00:09:55,148 --> 00:09:56,018 source project, right? -200 +210 00:09:56,548 --> 00:10:00,268 Jessica: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's available on my personal -201 +211 00:10:00,268 --> 00:10:03,148 GitHub, but it's completely open source. It's a, anybody could -202 -00:10:03,148 --> 00:10:05,698 -like dive in there and if they want -to contribute there, I'm pretty +212 +00:10:03,148 --> 00:10:04,423 +like dive in there and if they +want to contribute there, I'm -203 +213 +00:10:04,423 --> 00:10:05,698 +pretty + +214 00:10:05,698 --> 00:10:08,248 open -204 +215 00:10:08,248 --> 00:10:09,957 to that. So, yeah. -205 +216 00:10:10,327 --> 00:10:12,847 Bekah: Right. It is really awesome. And again, those links -206 +217 00:10:12,847 --> 00:10:21,243 will be in the show notes I just think seem like. So driven -207 +218 00:10:21,243 --> 00:10:25,773 and motivated from everything that you've talked about your -208 +219 00:10:25,982 --> 00:10:27,902 career as a musician, you know, at 15 years old, you decided -209 +220 00:10:27,902 --> 00:10:29,822 that -210 +221 00:10:29,822 --> 00:10:34,743 you were going to do this thing, and that's not an easy thing. So -211 +222 00:10:34,743 --> 00:10:38,192 you have this, I don't know, Tenacity or, or something. How -212 +223 00:10:38,192 --> 00:10:42,722 would you kind of describe that, that that's allowed you to go -213 +224 00:10:42,722 --> 00:10:45,373 through these different things and accomplish so much. -214 +225 00:10:45,913 --> 00:10:50,253 Jessica: I think that's in large part to both my mom and my -215 +226 00:10:50,253 --> 00:10:54,302 grandmother. And so both of them were single parents. And so one -216 +227 00:10:54,302 --> 00:10:56,522 -was by choice. my mom, -worked as a teacher for many +was by choice. my mom, worked as +a teacher for many -217 +228 00:10:56,522 --> 00:10:58,742 years and -218 +229 00:10:58,743 --> 00:11:01,442 then in her forties decided that she wanted to adopt and have a -219 +230 00:11:01,442 --> 00:11:04,712 -child. and so, she had -me when she was like 44 or 45. +child. and so, she had me when +she was like 44 or 45. -220 +231 00:11:04,712 --> 00:11:07,982 And -221 +232 00:11:07,982 --> 00:11:12,452 -then with my grandmother, -she was married, but it was +then with my grandmother, she +was married, but it was -222 +233 00:11:12,452 --> 00:11:15,332 unfortunately an abusive situation. So she had to get out -223 +234 00:11:15,332 --> 00:11:19,263 and get to safety and raise two kids by herself and was also a -224 +235 00:11:19,263 --> 00:11:22,052 teacher. but then went on to, you know, own land in -225 +236 00:11:22,052 --> 00:11:24,841 certain -226 -00:11:24,842 --> 00:11:29,373 +237 +00:11:24,842 --> 00:11:27,107 parts of California and just be -fiercely independent. and so I just +fiercely independent. and so I -227 +238 +00:11:27,107 --> 00:11:29,372 +just + +239 00:11:29,373 --> 00:11:31,952 kind of picked up on that, where if they decided they were going -228 +240 00:11:31,952 --> 00:11:33,902 to do something, they just went for it. Growing up with that -229 +241 00:11:33,902 --> 00:11:35,852 type -230 +242 00:11:35,852 --> 00:11:37,307 of mindset and energy, it's like, well, I guess That's just -231 +243 00:11:37,307 --> 00:11:38,762 what we -232 +244 00:11:38,763 --> 00:11:42,312 do here. If you just want to go do something. so when I -233 +245 00:11:42,513 --> 00:11:46,863 discovered my love for operas and orchestra and this weird, -234 +246 00:11:46,863 --> 00:11:48,438 beautiful instrument of the oboe, I was like, I want to go -235 +247 00:11:48,438 --> 00:11:50,013 do that -236 +248 00:11:50,552 --> 00:11:54,633 I want to go achieve that. And so I just went for it definitely -237 +249 00:11:54,633 --> 00:11:56,943 didn't think I was going to get in to. The conservatory I was, -238 +250 00:11:56,943 --> 00:11:59,253 but it -239 +251 00:11:59,253 --> 00:12:04,173 ended up working out thankfully, but leading up to it cause I got -240 +252 00:12:04,383 --> 00:12:06,643 four rejections and then the last one was an exception into -241 +253 00:12:06,643 --> 00:12:08,903 my -242 +254 00:12:08,903 --> 00:12:11,673 dream schools. So at first I was like, well maybe I'm just not -243 +255 00:12:11,673 --> 00:12:15,423 going to college. I have four rejections from other schools. -244 +256 00:12:15,663 --> 00:12:19,232 But then at the very end I was accepted, to Eastman. And -245 +257 00:12:19,232 --> 00:12:21,423 that was the last school I heard back from. And I was like, okay, -246 +258 00:12:21,423 --> 00:12:23,702 cool. I guess we're going. And we're going to my dream school. -247 +259 00:12:23,702 --> 00:12:24,633 So that worked out. -248 +260 00:12:26,368 --> 00:12:28,318 -Dan: awesome. Oh, the oboe -is an interesting choice. What, - -249 -00:12:28,318 --> 00:12:30,268 - +Dan: awesome. Oh, the oboe is an +interesting choice. What, -250 -00:12:30,298 --> 00:12:33,057 +261 w- w- do you have any reason why, like, what made you like lean -251 +262 00:12:33,057 --> 00:12:35,427 towards the oboe, I know from, you know, I, I know it's very -252 +263 00:12:35,427 --> 00:12:37,587 hard to learn and all of that stuff. I was just curious about -253 +264 00:12:37,587 --> 00:12:37,768 that. -254 +265 00:12:38,538 --> 00:12:40,638 -Jessica: yeah so I didn't actually -choose it. +Jessica: yeah so I didn't +actually choose it. -255 +266 00:12:41,177 --> 00:12:41,388 Dan: Sure. -256 +267 00:12:42,347 --> 00:12:44,282 Jessica: I didn't choose it. Yeah. I was learning piano -257 +268 00:12:44,282 --> 00:12:46,217 in -258 -00:12:46,217 --> 00:12:50,052 +269 +00:12:46,217 --> 00:12:48,134 elementary school, and then I -tried to pick up trumpet. But That +tried to pick up trumpet. But -259 +270 +00:12:48,134 --> 00:12:50,051 +That + +271 00:12:50,143 --> 00:12:52,993 definitely was not the right fit for me. I couldn't really make -260 +272 00:12:52,993 --> 00:12:56,562 any type of sounds, but I wanted to be in band because all my -261 +273 00:12:56,562 --> 00:13:00,913 friends were in band and I loved music. so I asked the, band -262 +274 00:13:00,913 --> 00:13:03,102 director at the middle school and I told him, I said, Hey, I'm -263 +275 00:13:03,102 --> 00:13:06,263 really passionate. I want to learn something. his answer was, -264 +276 00:13:06,283 --> 00:13:10,182 you should learn the oboe. And I'm like, Okay. what is that? He -265 +277 00:13:10,182 --> 00:13:13,383 was like here. And so he got out and oboe and he got out of reed -266 +278 00:13:14,143 --> 00:13:16,355 he put it together for me and put it, he said, okay, this is. -267 +279 00:13:16,355 --> 00:13:18,567 You -268 -00:13:18,567 --> 00:13:21,658 +280 +00:13:18,567 --> 00:13:20,112 know, blow and just how you make -an embouchure. And I did that and +an embouchure. And I did that -269 +281 +00:13:20,112 --> 00:13:21,657 +and + +282 00:13:21,658 --> 00:13:23,998 it squeaked, he's like perfect. You should be our new oboe -270 +283 00:13:23,998 --> 00:13:28,158 player. I was like, Okay, cool. And I'm like 11 years old, so -271 +284 00:13:28,158 --> 00:13:30,242 I've just game for anything. And he probably totally planned -272 +285 00:13:30,242 --> 00:13:32,326 that. -273 +286 00:13:32,327 --> 00:13:35,878 Like, yes, we got another one because oboe's so rare in -274 +287 00:13:35,927 --> 00:13:41,057 schools, along with like basoon. So that's when he heard that I -275 +288 00:13:41,057 --> 00:13:43,427 was, I just wanted to join and he's like, cool. Let's just talk -276 +289 00:13:43,427 --> 00:13:47,408 her into playing this thing. And we're all taken care of, but I -277 +290 00:13:47,418 --> 00:13:49,998 guess I have to thank him for it because I ended up falling in -278 +291 00:13:49,998 --> 00:13:50,957 love with it. So. -279 +292 00:13:51,727 --> 00:13:52,867 Dan: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I imagine there was, there was -280 +293 00:13:52,867 --> 00:13:54,007 no -281 +294 00:13:54,008 --> 00:13:55,508 oboe player, you know, before he started. -282 +295 00:13:56,107 --> 00:13:57,832 Jessica: Yeah, there was actually just one, but then he -283 +296 00:13:57,832 --> 00:13:59,557 was like, -284 +297 00:13:59,557 --> 00:14:02,242 we really need one other one. And so it was easy to talk at 11 -285 +298 00:14:02,242 --> 00:14:04,927 year -286 +299 00:14:04,927 --> 00:14:07,148 old, because at that age, you're just like, I just want to do -287 +300 00:14:07,148 --> 00:14:09,908 anything and you're not going to like fight it there, so. -288 +301 00:14:10,113 --> 00:14:12,932 Bekah: My oldest is learning the trombone because someone gave us -289 +302 00:14:12,932 --> 00:14:13,773 a free trombone. -290 +303 00:14:14,337 --> 00:14:15,477 Jessica: see, there you go. Yeah, exactly. That's how, like -291 +304 00:14:15,477 --> 00:14:16,617 most -292 +305 00:14:16,618 --> 00:14:18,717 kids fall into it. They're like, I don't know. Just give me an -293 +306 00:14:18,717 --> 00:14:20,187 instrument. I'll figure it out. -294 +307 00:14:21,913 --> 00:14:24,567 Bekah: Yeah, that is awesome. And so it's great to hear to -295 +308 00:14:24,567 --> 00:14:27,221 your -296 +309 00:14:27,312 --> 00:14:31,602 you've had this history of teaching in your family, and it -297 +310 00:14:31,602 --> 00:14:35,052 sounds like you also taught music, but you're also teaching -298 +311 00:14:35,052 --> 00:14:37,393 now through what you're doing. You know, you did the lunch and -299 +312 00:14:37,393 --> 00:14:39,523 learn for us and taught us all about writing, but also as -300 +313 00:14:39,523 --> 00:14:41,653 you're -301 +314 00:14:41,653 --> 00:14:43,977 writing, you're teaching. So, how much of that do you think -302 +315 00:14:43,977 --> 00:14:46,301 that, -303 +316 00:14:47,173 --> 00:14:51,557 you're able to lean on. What you've learned from your mom and -304 +317 00:14:51,557 --> 00:14:56,447 your grandmother, or is it something that you thought you -305 +318 00:14:56,447 --> 00:14:59,238 really had to work hard to acquire that skill? -306 -00:14:59,993 --> 00:15:02,647 -Jessica: Yeah, I, I you really know when I -was teaching beginners, there's +319 +00:14:59,993 --> 00:15:01,320 +Jessica: Yeah, I, I you really +know when I was teaching -307 +320 +00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:02,647 +beginners, there's + +321 00:15:02,647 --> 00:15:05,301 a -308 +322 00:15:05,302 --> 00:15:09,113 lot of patience required when you're teaching beginner -309 +323 00:15:09,113 --> 00:15:12,232 students, especially beginner oboist, because it's like a -310 +324 00:15:12,273 --> 00:15:15,748 really weird instrument and there's not a lot- Unnatural -311 +325 00:15:15,748 --> 00:15:18,807 things with it. And so it requires a lot of patience and -312 +326 00:15:18,807 --> 00:15:21,658 just saying, okay, let's just take it one step at a time. And -313 +327 00:15:21,658 --> 00:15:25,498 so I think that translates a lot into the articles I write. Now I -314 +328 00:15:25,498 --> 00:15:29,697 write a lot of beginner articles on HTML and CSS and JavaScript -315 +329 00:15:29,697 --> 00:15:34,018 and tutorials and all that fun stuff. And so I know what it's -316 +330 00:15:34,018 --> 00:15:35,812 like. First start out in programming. And I think a lot -317 +331 00:15:35,812 --> 00:15:37,606 of -318 -00:15:37,607 --> 00:15:41,807 -writers just skip over stuff [chuckles] and -they'll skip like 20 steps when +332 +00:15:37,607 --> 00:15:39,707 +writers just skip over stuff +[chuckles] and they'll skip like -319 +333 +00:15:39,707 --> 00:15:41,807 +20 steps when + +334 00:15:41,807 --> 00:15:44,118 they're writing about something and they'll go, oh yeah, first -320 +335 00:15:44,118 --> 00:15:47,057 you do this. And then when you log in, just take care of this -321 +336 00:15:47,057 --> 00:15:49,008 and then go over here and I'm like, wait, wait, wait a minute. -322 +337 00:15:49,008 --> 00:15:52,638 Like, how is a beginner supposed to kind of fill in those gaps? -323 +338 00:15:52,638 --> 00:15:55,248 And so I really try to be conscious about explaining -324 +339 00:15:55,248 --> 00:15:57,362 things, not assuming anything, being patient there, I think -325 +340 00:15:57,362 --> 00:15:59,476 that -326 +341 00:15:59,477 --> 00:16:02,055 -goes into my writing. Cause -I just want to help people as +goes into my writing. Cause I +just want to help people as -327 +342 00:16:02,055 --> 00:16:04,633 best -328 +343 00:16:04,633 --> 00:16:05,293 as I can. -329 +344 00:16:07,102 --> 00:16:12,077 Bekah: That's so important because the, it. It really helps -330 +345 00:16:12,077 --> 00:16:17,658 to create a more welcoming and inclusive space in tech to have. -331 +346 00:16:19,067 --> 00:16:21,572 Tutorials or guides or articles that don't make assumptions -332 +347 00:16:21,572 --> 00:16:24,077 about -333 -00:16:24,077 --> 00:16:26,402 +348 +00:16:24,077 --> 00:16:25,239 the people who are reading them. -Because I can't tell you how many times +Because I can't tell you how -334 +349 +00:16:25,239 --> 00:16:26,401 +many times + +350 00:16:26,402 --> 00:16:28,727 I -335 +351 00:16:28,727 --> 00:16:31,007 started reading something and got very frustrated because I -336 +352 00:16:31,007 --> 00:16:33,287 was -337 +353 00:16:33,288 --> 00:16:37,812 following the steps. But it wasn't working and I didn't know -338 +354 00:16:37,812 --> 00:16:41,863 what to do or what to look for. And that can be really hard to -339 +355 00:16:41,863 --> 00:16:45,582 navigate through, especially if you're self-taught or you don't -340 +356 00:16:45,582 --> 00:16:50,173 have a good support system. So I really appreciate hearing you -341 +357 00:16:50,173 --> 00:16:53,592 talk about making sure that that's part of your process. -342 +358 00:16:54,753 --> 00:16:58,038 Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's just like the person came to -343 +359 00:16:58,038 --> 00:17:01,727 learn. And so when you're just skipping steps or saying, oh, -344 +360 00:17:01,758 --> 00:17:03,032 what are the things too? That's a pet peeve is when people say, -345 +361 00:17:03,032 --> 00:17:04,306 oh, -346 -00:17:04,307 --> 00:17:06,527 +362 +00:17:04,307 --> 00:17:05,417 it's so easy. You just do this. -You can't say that. [Chuckles] Like a lot +You can't say that. [Chuckles] -347 +363 +00:17:05,417 --> 00:17:06,527 +Like a lot + +364 00:17:06,527 --> 00:17:08,747 of -348 +365 00:17:08,748 --> 00:17:10,788 people do this when they're setting up, like gitHub for the -349 +366 00:17:10,788 --> 00:17:14,242 first time and they'll say, oh yeah, This up and you just run -350 +367 00:17:14,242 --> 00:17:16,403 these commands, just open up your, your. terminal. It's -351 +368 00:17:16,403 --> 00:17:19,252 totally fine. And, and there you go. And it's like, no, it's not -352 +369 00:17:19,252 --> 00:17:22,583 totally fine. This is brand new for a lot of people. So you've -353 +370 00:17:22,583 --> 00:17:25,643 got to walk through those steps and throw in some screenshots -354 +371 00:17:26,303 --> 00:17:27,997 make sure that people can follow along. Cause it might be easy -355 +372 00:17:27,997 --> 00:17:29,691 for -356 +373 00:17:29,692 --> 00:17:30,877 somebody that's been doing it for many, many years, but when -357 +374 00:17:30,877 --> 00:17:32,062 you're -358 +375 00:17:32,063 --> 00:17:34,613 first learning it, you're going, wait, where's my terminal. -359 +376 00:17:34,613 --> 00:17:36,307 Where's my command prompt. How do I type, do I type this in -360 +377 00:17:36,307 --> 00:17:38,001 first -361 +378 00:17:38,002 --> 00:17:40,313 and then do this? Or this is very confusing. So. -362 -00:17:40,833 --> 00:17:43,623 -Bekah: Yeah, I'll never forget. [crosstalk] -It's one of the first times I +379 +00:17:40,833 --> 00:17:42,228 +Bekah: Yeah, I'll never forget. +[crosstalk] It's one of the -363 +380 +00:17:42,228 --> 00:17:43,623 +first times I + +381 00:17:43,623 --> 00:17:45,662 paired with somebody is somebody that I really like admired in -364 +382 00:17:45,662 --> 00:17:47,701 the -365 +383 00:17:47,702 --> 00:17:51,542 industry. And I was terrified because I didn't know. And at -366 +384 00:17:51,542 --> 00:17:56,012 that point I hadn't really been using. VS Code or, or -367 +385 00:17:56,012 --> 00:18:01,952 anything like that. And so okay, can you open up a text -368 +386 00:18:01,952 --> 00:18:06,843 editor? And I had no idea what that word meant. And so I opened -369 +387 00:18:06,843 --> 00:18:09,152 up Google docs and, they like, kind of went with it. And then -370 +388 00:18:09,152 --> 00:18:11,461 eventually -371 +389 00:18:11,462 --> 00:18:15,313 they were like, do you have something like VS Code or Atom. -372 -00:18:16,232 --> 00:18:22,548 -oh, that's a text editor. like, Things -like that, you know, I didn't +390 +00:18:16,232 --> 00:18:19,390 +oh, that's a text editor. like, +Things like that, you know, I -373 +391 +00:18:19,390 --> 00:18:22,548 +didn't + +392 00:18:22,577 --> 00:18:22,718 know. -374 +393 00:18:22,718 --> 00:18:22,807 Jessica: Right. -375 +394 00:18:22,877 --> 00:18:27,528 Bekah: I hadn't seen it written before and I was using built-in, -376 -00:18:28,907 --> 00:18:32,657 +395 +00:18:28,907 --> 00:18:30,782 things with the lessons that I -was learning. And I remember just +was learning. And I remember -377 +396 +00:18:30,782 --> 00:18:32,657 +just + +397 00:18:32,657 --> 00:18:37,278 that sense of shame that didn't belong there. Right. I shouldn't -378 +398 00:18:37,278 --> 00:18:41,357 be ashamed in that moment, but when you feel like there are -379 +399 00:18:41,373 --> 00:18:45,633 assumptions like, oh, I should have known that. And it's not -380 +400 00:18:45,633 --> 00:18:49,623 true. So to have people breaking things down to avoid, that makes -381 +401 00:18:49,623 --> 00:18:52,472 it much easier for people to keep learning. -382 +402 00:18:53,673 --> 00:18:57,442 Jessica: Yeah, exactly. Cause I mean, people want to learn and, -383 +403 00:18:57,442 --> 00:19:00,363 and I think writing is just such an important skill. I think -384 -00:19:00,363 --> 00:19:04,712 +404 +00:19:00,363 --> 00:19:02,537 everybody should write and work -on writing. And, and I think there's +on writing. And, and I think -385 +405 +00:19:02,537 --> 00:19:04,711 +there's + +406 00:19:04,712 --> 00:19:07,353 just two levels. There's writing technical articles and then -386 +407 00:19:07,353 --> 00:19:10,113 there's also writing about your personal story. And so the cool -387 +408 00:19:10,113 --> 00:19:13,113 thing about this monthly challenge is I get to do both is -388 +409 00:19:13,113 --> 00:19:15,722 I get to focus on some technical stuff and then I get to talk -389 +410 00:19:15,722 --> 00:19:17,867 -about, some yo weird stories I have -some fun articles coming up +about, some yo weird stories I +have some fun articles coming up -390 +411 00:19:17,867 --> 00:19:20,012 there -391 +412 00:19:20,012 --> 00:19:21,782 and just kind of sharing my story there. -392 +413 00:19:24,083 --> 00:19:26,940 Dan: Yeah, I think that's awesome. That balance of, of, -393 +414 00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:29,797 you -394 +415 00:19:29,798 --> 00:19:34,448 know, not making assumptions about your audience and, but -395 +416 00:19:34,448 --> 00:19:35,618 also still kind of getting your point across for the thing -396 +417 00:19:35,618 --> 00:19:36,788 you're -397 +418 00:19:36,788 --> 00:19:40,278 trying to learn is, is a, is a hard balance to strike and I -398 +419 00:19:40,278 --> 00:19:44,387 think you do it well. there, is there anything. If somebody was -399 +420 00:19:44,387 --> 00:19:46,727 starting a technical article, you know, I mean, w- what advice -400 +421 00:19:46,727 --> 00:19:49,067 would -401 +422 00:19:49,067 --> 00:19:50,897 you give? Like, you know, say the thing that I wanted to learn -402 +423 00:19:50,897 --> 00:19:52,727 or -403 +424 00:19:52,728 --> 00:19:56,657 that I wanted to, you know, teach, had required to GitHub, -404 +425 00:19:56,657 --> 00:19:59,117 you know, required you to check out a repository and all of that -405 +426 00:19:59,117 --> 00:20:03,887 stuff. you say, like, would you suggest putting all that stuff -406 +427 00:20:03,887 --> 00:20:09,093 step-by-step in or linking to. Articles about, you know, about -407 +428 00:20:09,093 --> 00:20:10,982 how to do that and that kind of thing. Like what, what kind of -408 +429 00:20:10,982 --> 00:20:13,202 approach, you know, generally would you would you suggest? -409 +430 00:20:13,538 --> 00:20:17,438 Jessica: Yeah. So I think it's fine if there's. if you want -410 +431 00:20:17,438 --> 00:20:20,327 to Link an article, or if you want to have a right at the very -411 +432 00:20:20,327 --> 00:20:23,778 top of your articles, just say, prerequisites must be familiar -412 +433 00:20:23,778 --> 00:20:27,768 -with and GitHub. I mean, I -just wrote an article about, +with and GitHub. I mean, I just +wrote an article about, -413 +434 00:20:27,798 --> 00:20:31,067 how to work with Node and NodeMailer for emails. And so I -414 +435 00:20:31,067 --> 00:20:33,857 had a prerequisite say, okay, I'm not going to cover basic -415 +436 00:20:33,857 --> 00:20:37,688 JavaScript. So it's important. That you understand some of the -416 +437 00:20:37,688 --> 00:20:40,538 basic concepts and the basics behind nodes. So we can dive -417 +438 00:20:40,538 --> 00:20:42,623 straight into this. And there was one section where there's a -418 +439 00:20:42,623 --> 00:20:44,708 different -419 +440 00:20:44,708 --> 00:20:48,847 setup with how to do Google with NodeMailer and set up all the, -420 +441 00:20:49,688 --> 00:20:52,448 off the authentication there. And so I did link to another -421 +442 00:20:52,448 --> 00:20:54,938 -freeCodeCamp article and say, +FreeCodeCamp article and say, okay, here's a detailed -422 +443 00:20:54,968 --> 00:20:57,518 step-by-step process. If you're going to use google with -423 +444 00:20:57,518 --> 00:21:00,428 NodeMailer, otherwise you could walk through the steps that I'm -424 +445 00:21:00,428 --> 00:21:02,768 going to show you here. So I think that's completely fine. -425 +446 00:21:03,067 --> 00:21:06,893 There were, if you feel like you could write through. All of -426 +447 00:21:06,893 --> 00:21:09,952 those steps in the article, I think either approach works -427 +448 00:21:09,952 --> 00:21:12,563 there. But I, I think it's healthy to have like a -428 +449 00:21:12,563 --> 00:21:16,222 prerequisites if necessary, just to let everybody know, Hey, if -429 +450 00:21:16,252 --> 00:21:19,192 you don't have these prerequisites, that is going to -430 +451 00:21:19,192 --> 00:21:22,432 be kind of hard to follow, especially for some of the -431 +452 00:21:22,432 --> 00:21:25,853 tutorials, because I see a lot -of people have freeCodeCamp, go +of people have FreeCodeCamp, go -432 +453 00:21:25,853 --> 00:21:29,482 through a lot of our Python tutorials, which assume you have -433 +454 00:21:29,482 --> 00:21:31,434 some basic knowledge, but they're not acknowledging that -434 +455 00:21:31,434 --> 00:21:33,386 you have, -435 +456 00:21:33,478 --> 00:21:36,807 that basic knowledge. And so they'll come to the forum and -436 +457 00:21:36,807 --> 00:21:39,057 they'll go, how do I do this? Or why does it say I have an -437 +458 00:21:39,057 --> 00:21:41,518 indentation error? And so we'll tell them, like, you're doing -438 +459 00:21:41,518 --> 00:21:42,613 crazy things with your indentation. You can't do that -439 +460 00:21:42,613 --> 00:21:43,708 in -440 +461 00:21:43,708 --> 00:21:46,948 Python, but they won't know that because they just started coding -441 +462 00:21:46,978 --> 00:21:50,278 Python like two days ago. And they're trying to build like a -442 +463 00:21:50,278 --> 00:21:54,143 Discord bot. And so just a properly communicating. Like, -443 +464 00:21:54,143 --> 00:21:58,613 this is not necessarily a beginner or if it is like, some -444 +465 00:21:58,613 --> 00:22:00,098 walkthrough steps that you can go through. Here's a great -445 +466 00:22:00,098 --> 00:22:01,583 article -446 +467 00:22:01,583 --> 00:22:04,853 that lays it out. so I, I think that's completely fine there. -447 +468 00:22:04,992 --> 00:22:08,413 Dan: Ah, I love that, that, prerequisites, you know, is, I -448 +469 00:22:08,413 --> 00:22:09,763 think that's a great, a great way to set expectations for the, -449 +470 00:22:09,763 --> 00:22:11,113 you -450 +471 00:22:11,113 --> 00:22:12,388 know, for the article. Right. And then you don't get down -451 +472 00:22:12,388 --> 00:22:13,663 three -452 -00:22:13,663 --> 00:22:16,342 -paragraphs in and become totally lost Assuming -you read prerequisites, you +473 +00:22:13,663 --> 00:22:15,002 +paragraphs in and become totally +lost Assuming you read -453 +474 +00:22:15,002 --> 00:22:16,341 +prerequisites, you + +475 00:22:16,342 --> 00:22:19,021 know? -454 +476 00:22:19,048 --> 00:22:22,288 Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I try to make it obvious, you know? a -455 +477 00:22:22,288 --> 00:22:23,488 heading, like here you go. -456 +478 00:22:23,823 --> 00:22:24,262 Dan: Right, right. -457 +479 00:22:25,198 --> 00:22:26,682 Jessica: So if someone misses it, it's like, okay, well, I did -458 +480 00:22:26,682 --> 00:22:28,166 try -459 +481 00:22:28,167 --> 00:22:28,557 to warn you. -460 +482 00:22:28,962 --> 00:22:31,373 Dan: Yeah, exactly. I think that's great advice. Yeah. -461 +483 00:22:33,587 --> 00:22:37,097 Bekah: Yeah, I think too, it's almost a really good convention -462 +484 00:22:37,127 --> 00:22:39,887 to build into something so I could see, Like software -463 +485 00:22:39,887 --> 00:22:42,647 that -464 +486 00:22:42,647 --> 00:22:47,928 -hosts tech blogging, like, -tech blogging platforms. be +hosts tech blogging, like, tech +blogging platforms. be -465 +487 00:22:47,928 --> 00:22:50,433 really nice if that was built in. what are the prerequisites? -466 +488 00:22:50,433 --> 00:22:52,938 And -467 +489 00:22:52,938 --> 00:22:56,508 then you can click the thing or you can add the thing then that -468 +490 00:22:56,508 --> 00:22:59,327 way it already, everybody knows where they should look for Okay. -469 +491 00:22:59,327 --> 00:23:02,146 This -470 +492 00:23:02,147 --> 00:23:05,238 is what I need to know. I don't know those things. And it also -471 +493 00:23:05,238 --> 00:23:07,562 puts it in the writer's mind that it makes it obvious to them -472 +494 00:23:07,562 --> 00:23:09,886 to -473 +495 00:23:09,887 --> 00:23:15,657 think about. It makes it a deliberate decision to recognize -474 -00:23:15,657 --> 00:23:20,667 -who their audience is and what they -should already know coming into +496 +00:23:15,657 --> 00:23:18,162 +who their audience is and what +they should already know coming -475 +497 +00:23:18,162 --> 00:23:20,667 +into + +498 00:23:20,667 --> 00:23:24,178 this. So I think like from both perspectives, it would be really -476 +499 00:23:24,178 --> 00:23:29,127 useful in helping us to have these conversations about, what -477 +500 00:23:29,127 --> 00:23:32,577 content is usable, usable for different audiences. -478 +501 00:23:33,762 --> 00:23:35,457 Jessica: Right. And then there's some tutorials where people -479 +502 00:23:35,457 --> 00:23:37,152 label -480 +503 00:23:37,153 --> 00:23:39,613 it beginner, but it's clearly isn't beginner. I'm like, I -481 +504 00:23:39,613 --> 00:23:42,073 don't -482 +505 00:23:42,073 --> 00:23:44,188 think beginners or I wasn't doing that. I was first starting -483 +506 00:23:44,188 --> 00:23:46,303 out. -484 +507 00:23:46,932 --> 00:23:50,952 And so sometimes people really mislabel, which hurts beginners, -485 +508 00:23:50,982 --> 00:23:53,143 and then they're going through it. They're like, well, how do I -486 +509 00:23:53,143 --> 00:23:55,553 do this? I was like, well, maybe we start off with something a -487 +510 00:23:55,553 --> 00:23:58,330 little bit easier if that's okay. So yeah, so sometimes -488 +511 00:23:58,330 --> 00:24:01,107 people, I -489 +512 00:24:01,147 --> 00:24:02,887 think a lot of it has to do with, they forget what it's like -490 +513 00:24:02,887 --> 00:24:04,627 to be -491 +514 00:24:04,627 --> 00:24:05,198 a beginner -492 +515 00:24:05,198 --> 00:24:05,288 Dan: Yes. -493 +516 00:24:05,288 --> 00:24:07,597 Jessica: or they rewrite history and they're like, oh, I was -494 +517 00:24:07,597 --> 00:24:09,262 totally doing this when I was first learning in six months or -495 +518 00:24:09,262 --> 00:24:10,927 a -496 +519 00:24:10,928 --> 00:24:15,008 year. And it's like, no, you probably weren't. You probably -497 +520 00:24:15,008 --> 00:24:18,248 just forgot you weren't doing those types of things. Cause I -498 +521 00:24:18,248 --> 00:24:19,940 think the first few months. -Going through a freeCodeCamp and +Going through a FreeCodeCamp and -499 +522 00:24:19,940 --> 00:24:21,632 going -500 +523 00:24:21,643 --> 00:24:25,323 through the certifications, but I didn't understand how HTML CSS -501 +524 00:24:25,323 --> 00:24:27,782 and JavaScript work together. I was just like, okay, there's -502 +525 00:24:27,782 --> 00:24:30,992 these things like arrays and objects, but how do I make a -503 +526 00:24:30,992 --> 00:24:33,452 webpage? So I just didn't understand how everything -504 +527 00:24:33,452 --> 00:24:38,643 connected. and so beginners, it's, it's a lot of information -505 +528 00:24:38,643 --> 00:24:40,457 and it's just like fire hose. And so you just have to make -506 +529 00:24:40,457 --> 00:24:42,271 sure -507 +530 00:24:42,272 --> 00:24:45,242 that you're not making assumptions going, oh yeah, you -508 +531 00:24:45,242 --> 00:24:48,212 could totally do this with your beginner. And it's like, no. you -509 +532 00:24:48,212 --> 00:24:51,528 gotta break that down there. That's definitely not a beginner -510 +533 00:24:51,528 --> 00:24:54,468 tutorial. Let's label it intermediate at best there. -511 +534 00:24:55,512 --> 00:24:57,142 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, to your point. People -512 +535 00:24:57,142 --> 00:24:58,772 could -513 +536 00:24:58,772 --> 00:25:00,972 -forget, you know, the, what -it feels like to be a beginner +forget, you know, the, what it +feels like to be a beginner -514 +537 00:25:00,972 --> 00:25:03,172 at -515 +538 00:25:03,173 --> 00:25:04,648 it from experience. It's very easy to forget that, you know, -516 +539 00:25:04,648 --> 00:25:06,123 it -517 +540 00:25:06,123 --> 00:25:07,753 takes effort to that in practice. I'm sure. You know, it -518 +541 00:25:07,753 --> 00:25:09,383 becomes, -519 +542 00:25:09,823 --> 00:25:11,392 -easier. but, yeah, it's, -it's hard to, it's hard +easier. but, yeah, it's, it's +hard to, it's hard -520 +543 00:25:11,392 --> 00:25:12,961 sometimes to -521 +544 00:25:12,962 --> 00:25:14,752 put yourself back in. know, once you're a few years into a -522 +545 00:25:14,752 --> 00:25:16,542 career, -523 +546 00:25:16,903 --> 00:25:20,863 -to put yourself back into -spot, you know, the like total +to put yourself back into spot, +you know, the like total -524 +547 00:25:20,863 --> 00:25:21,792 utter confusion, -525 +548 00:25:22,188 --> 00:25:23,238 Jessica: Right. Exactly. -526 -00:25:23,532 --> 00:25:26,053 -Dan: like, I, I can't remember it, -you know, if I, if I make my, +549 +00:25:23,532 --> 00:25:24,792 +Dan: like, I, I can't remember +it, you know, if I, if I make -527 +550 +00:25:24,792 --> 00:25:26,052 +my, + +551 00:25:26,173 --> 00:25:29,053 like, if I think about it, I can remember it, you know? And I was -528 +552 00:25:29,053 --> 00:25:29,922 at the same boat. I'm like, well, I'm writing, you see him -529 +553 00:25:29,922 --> 00:25:30,791 out -530 +554 00:25:30,792 --> 00:25:32,247 here. I'm like, and I was writing like PHP at the same -531 +555 00:25:32,247 --> 00:25:33,702 time. Like I -532 -00:25:33,702 --> 00:25:35,370 +556 +00:25:33,702 --> 00:25:34,536 was like learning it all at the -same time and tottally didn't understand how +same time and tottally didn't -533 +557 +00:25:34,536 --> 00:25:35,370 +understand how + +558 00:25:35,370 --> 00:25:37,038 they -534 +559 00:25:37,038 --> 00:25:38,253 all connected. And, you know, somebody sent me a CSS file. -535 +560 00:25:38,253 --> 00:25:39,468 He's -536 +561 00:25:39,468 --> 00:25:42,798 like instead of using whatever use this. And I'm like, well, -537 +562 00:25:42,807 --> 00:25:44,928 here's a bunch of black magic. I'm just going to drop into my -538 +563 00:25:44,928 --> 00:25:46,622 like... into my program. apparently it works, you know, -539 +564 00:25:46,622 --> 00:25:48,316 it -540 +565 00:25:48,798 --> 00:25:53,147 -it's, yeah, it can be a, a -hard thing to, to remember, but +it's, yeah, it can be a, a hard +thing to, to remember, but -541 +566 00:25:53,208 --> 00:25:54,498 an important thing for sure. -542 +567 00:25:55,863 --> 00:25:57,272 Bekah: So I want to back up a little bit because I feel like -543 +568 00:25:57,272 --> 00:25:58,681 we -544 +569 00:25:58,682 --> 00:26:01,442 miss this very impart important part of the story of. You -545 +570 00:26:01,442 --> 00:26:04,202 started -546 +571 00:26:04,202 --> 00:26:07,482 learning to code and suddenly -you're writing for freeCodeCamp. +you're writing for FreeCodeCamp. -547 +572 00:26:07,502 --> 00:26:10,113 Like that's not something little right. -548 +573 00:26:10,163 --> 00:26:11,573 Jessica: totally glossed over that. Yeah. -549 -00:26:12,452 --> 00:26:14,372 -Bekah: That's a major accomplishment. So I -don't want to lose that. so tell +574 +00:26:12,452 --> 00:26:13,412 +Bekah: That's a major +accomplishment. So I don't want -550 +575 +00:26:13,412 --> 00:26:14,372 +to lose that. so tell + +576 00:26:14,372 --> 00:26:16,292 us, -551 +577 00:26:16,482 --> 00:26:17,853 how did that happen? -552 +578 00:26:18,323 --> 00:26:20,182 Jessica: Yes, it's a crazy story, but that's kind of my -553 +579 00:26:20,182 --> 00:26:22,041 life. But -554 +580 00:26:22,042 --> 00:26:25,942 what ends up happening is around October of 2020, or actually -555 +581 00:26:25,942 --> 00:26:29,663 September of 2020, I decided to -join the freeCodeCamp forum +join the FreeCodeCamp forum -556 +582 00:26:29,663 --> 00:26:31,057 because like a lot of self-taught developers, you kind -557 +583 00:26:31,057 --> 00:26:32,451 of bounce -558 +584 00:26:32,452 --> 00:26:34,312 -around different. Resources, -and then you try to find one +around different. Resources, and +then you try to find one -559 +585 00:26:34,312 --> 00:26:36,172 that -560 +586 00:26:36,173 --> 00:26:38,393 works. And so I did a few different things before -561 +587 00:26:38,393 --> 00:26:41,482 -freeCodeCamp, but then I landed -on freeCodeCamp. I was like, I +FreeCodeCamp, but then I landed +on FreeCodeCamp. I was like, I -562 +588 00:26:41,482 --> 00:26:43,147 kinda like this. Okay, cool. So I started going through, the -563 +589 00:26:43,147 --> 00:26:44,812 first -564 +590 00:26:44,813 --> 00:26:48,232 certification, which is on HTML and CSS and responsive design. -565 +591 00:26:48,728 --> 00:26:51,847 And so I decided to just sign up for the forum. I was like, maybe -566 +592 00:26:51,847 --> 00:26:54,407 I could connect with some beginners that be kind of cool. -567 -00:26:54,518 --> 00:26:57,788 +593 +00:26:54,518 --> 00:26:56,153 And some other developers just -talk with them. And so I originally, +talk with them. And so I -568 +594 +00:26:56,153 --> 00:26:57,788 +originally, + +595 00:26:57,788 --> 00:26:59,917 I just thought I would just kind of hang in the background and -569 +596 00:26:59,917 --> 00:27:03,488 maybe jump in once in a while, but I ended up jumping in a lot -570 +597 00:27:03,488 --> 00:27:06,938 more and answering questions or just giving my perspective and -571 +598 00:27:06,938 --> 00:27:09,817 sharing my story. And so after about a month of being on the -572 +599 00:27:09,817 --> 00:27:13,667 forum, Quincy reached out to me and he was like, Hey, you're -573 +600 00:27:13,667 --> 00:27:17,448 super active and what's your story? Let's talk. And so we set -574 +601 00:27:17,448 --> 00:27:20,718 up a Google Meet we talked for about like 45 minutes, and we -575 +602 00:27:20,718 --> 00:27:23,897 just talked about his background coming from a teacher into tech -576 +603 00:27:23,897 --> 00:27:27,617 and then my background with music. And he decided, he said, -577 +604 00:27:27,708 --> 00:27:32,057 well, you should join our forum moderator team and start writing -578 +605 00:27:32,057 --> 00:27:35,988 -for freeCodeCamp as a volunteer. +for FreeCodeCamp as a volunteer. Okay. I don't know what to write -579 +606 00:27:35,988 --> 00:27:37,998 about. Cause I've just been doing this for like two seconds -580 +607 00:27:37,998 --> 00:27:40,008 and he -581 +608 00:27:40,008 --> 00:27:43,307 said, just share your story. And I'm like, oh, I could do that. -582 +609 00:27:43,307 --> 00:27:46,607 That sounds fun. So I decided to just write a few posts about my -583 +610 00:27:46,607 --> 00:27:49,607 story so I wrote one, my first one was about what I enjoyed -584 -00:27:49,607 --> 00:27:53,057 -about being a beginner. And I wrote -one article about the parallels +611 +00:27:49,607 --> 00:27:51,332 +about being a beginner. And I +wrote one article about the -585 +612 +00:27:51,332 --> 00:27:53,057 +parallels + +613 00:27:53,057 --> 00:27:58,008 -between music and. -learning code and programming. +between music and. learning code +and programming. -586 +614 00:27:58,188 --> 00:28:02,327 And then that was noticed by Gatsby and they were like, Hey, -587 +615 00:28:02,327 --> 00:28:03,932 we have this blog and do you want to write it? We'll pay you. -588 +616 00:28:03,932 --> 00:28:05,537 I was -589 +617 00:28:05,538 --> 00:28:08,597 like, yeah, that sounds fun to me. So that I wrote about -590 +618 00:28:08,597 --> 00:28:10,157 imposter syndrome and how I dealt with it as a musician and -591 +619 00:28:10,157 --> 00:28:11,717 how. -592 +620 00:28:12,188 --> 00:28:14,798 Yeah, it goes in with programming. so now all of a -593 +621 00:28:14,798 --> 00:28:19,057 sudden I start writing articles and just sharing my story. And -594 +622 00:28:19,057 --> 00:28:20,452 after a few months of doing that, Quincy comes back to me -595 +623 00:28:20,452 --> 00:28:21,847 and says, -596 +624 00:28:22,087 --> 00:28:24,817 well, I've got another proposition for you. do you -597 +625 00:28:24,817 --> 00:28:27,938 want to start writing technical articles and we'll pay you per -598 +626 00:28:27,938 --> 00:28:32,538 article? And I was like, ah, I don't think I could do that. So -599 +627 00:28:32,538 --> 00:28:36,048 originally I actually said no very politely, because I just -600 +628 00:28:36,048 --> 00:28:37,038 didn't think I could do that. Cause at this point this was -601 +629 00:28:37,038 --> 00:28:38,028 like -602 +630 00:28:38,028 --> 00:28:42,468 six months in and we're at the same time I had started my first -603 +631 00:28:42,468 --> 00:28:45,258 developer job, but I was still kind of overwhelmed with that. I -604 +632 00:28:45,258 --> 00:28:46,577 was working part-time at this small company. And so I was -605 +633 00:28:46,577 --> 00:28:47,896 like, -606 +634 00:28:47,968 --> 00:28:51,637 I don't know if I'm qualified to write technical articles, like -607 +635 00:28:51,647 --> 00:28:55,488 who is going to believe me. I, I don't know what I'm doing. And. -608 +636 00:28:55,978 --> 00:28:58,768 He said, well, I, I think you can, I think you really good at -609 +637 00:28:58,768 --> 00:29:03,327 just breaking down concepts and could pick articles you feel -610 +638 00:29:03,327 --> 00:29:06,958 comfortable with. And so he had this whole Trello board, -611 +639 00:29:06,988 --> 00:29:10,498 topics and I could just choose which ones I felt comfortable -612 +640 00:29:10,498 --> 00:29:13,377 with. So I picked all the HTML, CSS, ones, I think maybe a -613 +641 00:29:13,377 --> 00:29:17,127 -couple of JavaScript ones, -and just started from there. And +couple of JavaScript ones, and +just started from there. And -614 +642 00:29:17,127 --> 00:29:20,488 so a few months of just writing and getting paid per article on -615 +643 00:29:20,488 --> 00:29:26,137 my own schedule and, around July. It was interesting -616 +644 00:29:26,167 --> 00:29:29,887 because I was deciding if I actually wanted this to be a -617 +645 00:29:29,887 --> 00:29:33,728 -full-time career or not. And, -an opportunity came up with +full-time career or not. And, an +opportunity came up with -618 +646 00:29:33,728 --> 00:29:38,428 Disney for a music job, but I ended up turning that down to -619 +647 00:29:38,428 --> 00:29:39,458 pursue software -620 +648 00:29:40,278 --> 00:29:40,617 Dan: Wow. -621 +649 00:29:40,907 --> 00:29:44,347 Jessica: Yeah. Which is a whole other story in of itself, which -622 +650 00:29:44,347 --> 00:29:46,077 -we could cover. But, but -yeah, so then I was like, okay, +we could cover. But, but yeah, +so then I was like, okay, -623 +651 00:29:46,077 --> 00:29:47,807 I -624 +652 00:29:47,807 --> 00:29:51,518 guess we're going into software now I turned down that job and -625 +653 00:29:51,518 --> 00:29:54,087 then Quincy reached out again, said, Hey, I've got a job for -626 +654 00:29:54,087 --> 00:29:58,337 you. I want you to join my team officially you know, be, -627 +655 00:29:58,397 --> 00:29:59,807 writing all the time. I was like, okay, cool. So it's funny -628 +656 00:29:59,807 --> 00:30:01,217 how -629 +657 00:30:01,218 --> 00:30:03,333 life works out, where one door closes and then another one -630 +658 00:30:03,333 --> 00:30:05,448 opens -631 +659 00:30:05,448 --> 00:30:09,988 -around. I started officially -in August of 2021. Writing +around. I started officially in +August of 2021. Writing -632 +660 00:30:09,988 --> 00:30:13,057 articles and being part of the author team. And so there's a -633 +661 00:30:13,057 --> 00:30:16,077 total of four of us. And we all come from very diverse -634 +662 00:30:16,077 --> 00:30:17,862 backgrounds and we're located all around the world. but he'll -635 +663 00:30:17,862 --> 00:30:19,647 now -636 +664 00:30:19,647 --> 00:30:22,647 assign us articles. And so he'll send us like 10 or 12 different -637 +665 00:30:22,647 --> 00:30:25,252 -headlines at a time. And then. we -just write. basically we +headlines at a time. And then. +we just write. basically we -638 +666 00:30:25,252 --> 00:30:27,857 research -639 +667 00:30:27,857 --> 00:30:31,127 -and write. So right now I -have a whole bunch of SQL +and write. So right now I have a +whole bunch of SQL -640 +668 00:30:31,127 --> 00:30:32,912 articles and I've been learning about that and just writing -641 +669 00:30:32,912 --> 00:30:34,697 about -642 +670 00:30:35,387 --> 00:30:38,837 SQL basically as Well, as a few more JavaScript articles that I -643 +671 00:30:38,837 --> 00:30:41,798 have leftover that I need to write about. But Yeah. that's, -644 +672 00:30:41,798 --> 00:30:45,468 -that's kinda my story. How I, -my weird story, how I wound up at +that's kinda my story. How I, my +weird story, how I wound up at -645 +673 00:30:45,468 --> 00:30:46,288 -freeCodeCamp. +FreeCodeCamp. -646 +674 00:30:46,303 --> 00:30:48,692 Dan: Oh, Thats great. Yeah. And you actually answered it at the -647 +675 00:30:48,692 --> 00:30:51,032 end of a question I was going to ask was, you know, how to -648 +676 00:30:51,032 --> 00:30:54,393 balance, like, if you're, if writing is, you know, your main -649 +677 00:30:54,452 --> 00:30:56,913 job, how to balance actually learning, you know, whilst -650 +678 00:30:56,913 --> 00:30:59,462 writing, but it sounds like kind of built into the job, right? -651 +679 00:30:59,788 --> 00:31:00,387 Jessica: Exactly. -652 +680 00:31:00,522 --> 00:31:01,262 Dan: very cool. -653 +681 00:31:01,357 --> 00:31:03,557 Jessica: Cause there's times where I'll get assigned articles -654 +682 00:31:03,557 --> 00:31:03,617 Dan: Yeah. -655 +683 00:31:03,617 --> 00:31:05,548 Jessica: and I'm like, okay, I feel comfortable about this. And -656 +684 00:31:05,548 --> 00:31:08,488 then there's times where I'm like, I've never really worked -657 +685 00:31:08,488 --> 00:31:13,107 with this. So I guess I'll have to learn it because I have to -658 +686 00:31:13,107 --> 00:31:16,048 write about it and convince people that I know what I'm -659 +687 00:31:16,048 --> 00:31:17,562 talking about there, but it's really great because I get to, -660 +688 00:31:17,562 --> 00:31:19,076 we -661 +689 00:31:19,077 --> 00:31:21,215 all have that, where we are. One of the authors was asked to -662 +690 00:31:21,215 --> 00:31:23,353 learn -663 +691 00:31:23,593 --> 00:31:26,502 some PHP and writes a PHP articles. Another one was asked -664 +692 00:31:26,502 --> 00:31:30,492 -to write C, C++, and learn -that. we're all down for just +to write C, C++, and learn that. +we're all down for just -665 +693 00:31:30,492 --> 00:31:32,427 learning, whatever we need to learn and get the job done -666 +694 00:31:32,427 --> 00:31:34,362 there. -667 +695 00:31:35,962 --> 00:31:36,893 Bekah: I love that much. -668 +696 00:31:37,103 --> 00:31:37,333 Dan: That's Awesome -669 +697 00:31:38,018 --> 00:31:38,678 Bekah: Sorry, go ahead. -670 +698 00:31:39,538 --> 00:31:41,847 Dan: That was my whole thing. That was awesome. That sounds -671 +699 00:31:41,847 --> 00:31:42,208 awesome. -672 +700 00:31:43,538 --> 00:31:45,293 Bekah: I just kind of want to sum up your whole timeline here -673 +701 00:31:45,293 --> 00:31:47,048 of -674 +702 00:31:47,048 --> 00:31:48,995 everything that's happened before. I think that for a lot -675 +703 00:31:48,995 --> 00:31:50,942 of -676 +704 00:31:50,942 --> 00:31:54,962 people that we talked to, especially people who are trying -677 +705 00:31:54,962 --> 00:31:57,617 to transition into a tech career, it's where to get start. -678 +706 00:31:57,617 --> 00:32:00,272 And -679 +707 00:32:00,303 --> 00:32:02,373 first of all, like get comfortable with being -680 +708 00:32:02,373 --> 00:32:07,952 uncomfortable, but also. You finding that spot, you had this -681 +709 00:32:07,952 --> 00:32:11,173 opportunity because you -participated on freeCodeCamp +participated on FreeCodeCamp -682 +710 00:32:11,192 --> 00:32:14,313 because they reached out to you because they saw like, look, -683 +711 00:32:14,343 --> 00:32:16,713 Jessica is awesome and she's here and she's contributing. -684 +712 00:32:16,713 --> 00:32:19,083 that just -685 +713 00:32:19,083 --> 00:32:21,407 progressively led to more and bigger and better things. And -686 +714 00:32:21,407 --> 00:32:23,731 so, -687 +715 00:32:23,883 --> 00:32:26,223 you know, start with telling your story and, writing those -688 +716 00:32:26,223 --> 00:32:28,563 words -689 +717 00:32:28,563 --> 00:32:31,792 and this. You know, that's largely been my blogging -690 +718 00:32:31,792 --> 00:32:36,442 experience. I rarely write very technical things because just -691 +719 00:32:36,442 --> 00:32:41,093 want to get the words out on paper, or it's not on paper, but -692 +720 00:32:41,333 --> 00:32:46,063 put, put it out there into the world and that's a good place to -693 +721 00:32:46,182 --> 00:32:46,603 start. -694 +722 00:32:47,222 --> 00:32:50,012 Jessica: Yeah. I mean, there's, everybody has a story and -695 +723 00:32:50,012 --> 00:32:53,192 everybody has something to talk about and share. And so just, -696 +724 00:32:53,192 --> 00:32:56,163 just share with people and you'd be surprised who reaches out. I -697 +725 00:32:56,163 --> 00:32:57,783 mean, that's how I got my first developer job is I wasn't -698 +726 00:32:57,783 --> 00:32:59,403 looking -699 +727 00:32:59,403 --> 00:33:02,282 for a job. I didn't think I was anywhere close to being ready, -700 +728 00:33:02,492 --> 00:33:04,712 but this guy found me on the forum. He's like, Hey, I'm -701 +729 00:33:04,712 --> 00:33:07,798 -looking for a junior. Yeah. -A junior in what? - -702 -00:33:08,942 --> 00:33:09,123 - +looking for a junior. Yeah. A +junior in what? -703 +730 00:33:09,208 --> 00:33:12,597 Jessica: you want me to write code for you? And so he's like, -704 +731 00:33:12,597 --> 00:33:16,738 yeah. And, I still work with him to this day and it's been an -705 +732 00:33:16,738 --> 00:33:20,367 incredible learning experience, but that came out of just being -706 +733 00:33:20,367 --> 00:33:23,548 active on the forum and just, know, writing and talking about -707 +734 00:33:23,548 --> 00:33:24,298 my story there. -708 +735 00:33:24,729 --> 00:33:27,489 Bekah: Sorry. I was like, my brain is split in two different -709 +736 00:33:27,489 --> 00:33:29,693 directions of where to go here. I'm a, Dan is you want to -710 +737 00:33:29,693 --> 00:33:31,897 add -711 +738 00:33:31,898 --> 00:33:34,298 something before I take us off on a tangent? -712 +739 00:33:34,743 --> 00:33:37,023 Dan: Nope. I would say pick the left one. -713 +740 00:33:37,513 --> 00:33:41,473 Bekah: The left one. Okay. My left one was, thinking about -714 +741 00:33:41,473 --> 00:33:45,973 your, and literally in my mind, it was, it was on the left. your -715 +742 00:33:45,973 --> 00:33:47,398 career goals. I don't know if you have career goals, but does, -716 +743 00:33:47,398 --> 00:33:48,823 is -717 +744 00:33:48,824 --> 00:33:50,309 writing something that you want to continue to do? Do you want -718 +745 00:33:50,309 --> 00:33:51,794 to -719 +746 00:33:51,794 --> 00:33:57,344 pursue, the writing aspect of coding or, or find yourself -720 -00:33:57,344 --> 00:34:01,423 +747 +00:33:57,344 --> 00:33:59,383 somewhere in the middle or just -see this as part of a tangent of your +see this as part of a tangent of -721 +748 +00:33:59,383 --> 00:34:01,422 +your + +749 00:34:01,493 --> 00:34:01,953 journey? -722 +750 00:34:02,538 --> 00:34:06,949 Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I would like to have at one point a, a -723 +751 00:34:06,949 --> 00:34:10,128 traditional, like full-time developer job, but I definitely -724 +752 00:34:10,128 --> 00:34:11,478 still want to keep writing. And so if there's any way I can -725 +753 00:34:11,478 --> 00:34:12,828 still -726 +754 00:34:12,829 --> 00:34:16,369 be involved, especially with -freeCodeCamp, and still write +FreeCodeCamp, and still write -727 +755 00:34:16,369 --> 00:34:18,093 articles for them in some sort of capacity. Cause I just, I, I -728 +756 00:34:18,093 --> 00:34:19,817 love -729 +757 00:34:19,818 --> 00:34:23,031 to write it. I love. Teach people and help out wherever I -730 +758 00:34:23,031 --> 00:34:26,244 can. but -731 +759 00:34:26,244 --> 00:34:27,758 they think the bigger career goal too, is I have all these -732 +760 00:34:27,758 --> 00:34:29,272 ideas -733 +761 00:34:29,273 --> 00:34:31,658 -for music related, tech that -I want to build. And some of +for music related, tech that I +want to build. And some of -734 +762 00:34:31,658 --> 00:34:34,043 them -735 +763 00:34:34,043 --> 00:34:35,928 are crazy ideas. And I mean, I guess all my ideas are crazy, -736 +764 00:34:35,928 --> 00:34:37,813 but -737 +765 00:34:38,054 --> 00:34:39,083 Bekah: are my favorite. -738 +766 00:34:39,153 --> 00:34:40,453 Jessica: I guess That's the entrepreneurship in me where -739 +767 00:34:40,453 --> 00:34:41,753 it's -740 +768 00:34:41,753 --> 00:34:43,378 like, oh, my ideas are insane, but I just don't want to let -741 +769 00:34:43,378 --> 00:34:45,003 them -742 +770 00:34:45,003 --> 00:34:45,443 go. -743 +771 00:34:45,503 --> 00:34:45,824 Dan: Those are -744 +772 00:34:45,824 --> 00:34:47,508 Jessica: the best ones And so. Exactly. So, yeah, so that's -745 +773 00:34:47,508 --> 00:34:49,192 like -746 +774 00:34:49,193 --> 00:34:52,943 the long-term goal is to start slowly tackling some of these -747 +775 00:34:52,943 --> 00:34:57,623 ideas and just kind of go from there and work a regular -748 +776 00:34:57,623 --> 00:34:59,498 developer job, but then also keep writing and have fun with -749 +777 00:34:59,498 --> 00:35:01,373 it. -750 +778 00:35:02,753 --> 00:35:07,463 Bekah: Yeah, that gives me an idea for a monthly challenge, I -751 +779 00:35:07,463 --> 00:35:09,728 think we have a big energy channel in Slack. And a lot of -752 +780 00:35:09,728 --> 00:35:11,993 it -753 +781 00:35:11,994 --> 00:35:19,494 -is just GIF's, to bring us -big energy. But I really think +is just GIF's, to bring us big +energy. But I really think -754 +782 00:35:19,494 --> 00:35:22,434 that so many of us have these big ideas that we think are -755 +783 00:35:22,434 --> 00:35:24,038 unattainable, or this is too big, or this is too out there. -756 +784 00:35:24,038 --> 00:35:25,642 Right. -757 +785 00:35:25,884 --> 00:35:31,494 Or there's just too many of them like on one. if there was a big -758 +786 00:35:31,494 --> 00:35:34,943 idea month, right? Like we all write down all of our big ideas -759 +787 00:35:34,943 --> 00:35:37,148 that we want to share. And work together to kind of give -760 +788 00:35:37,148 --> 00:35:39,353 feedback -761 +789 00:35:39,353 --> 00:35:40,868 on those big ideas and figure out like where to focus or how -762 +790 00:35:40,868 --> 00:35:42,383 to -763 +791 00:35:42,384 --> 00:35:44,048 break things down. And then, you know, that way, like together, -764 +792 00:35:44,048 --> 00:35:45,712 we -765 +793 00:35:45,713 --> 00:35:48,893 have that support, but we're, we're making progress on the -766 +794 00:35:48,893 --> 00:35:51,143 things that we really enjoy doing it. -767 +795 00:35:52,153 --> 00:35:53,728 Jessica: Exactly. I mean, I think ideas are fun and playing -768 +796 00:35:53,728 --> 00:35:55,303 around -769 +797 00:35:55,304 --> 00:35:58,184 with them and then trying to implement them. And sometimes -770 +798 00:35:58,184 --> 00:36:00,103 people will call you crazy. I mean, people thought I was nuts -771 +799 00:36:00,344 --> 00:36:03,764 to try to do a publishing company. I remember I went to an -772 +800 00:36:03,764 --> 00:36:07,523 alumni event. And I was just started with the business and I, -773 +801 00:36:07,523 --> 00:36:10,344 you know, you go around and does events and you talk to small -774 +802 00:36:10,344 --> 00:36:11,649 groups of people, and it was some sort of administrator with -775 +803 00:36:11,649 --> 00:36:12,954 the -776 +804 00:36:12,954 --> 00:36:17,304 university of Rochester. And she was asking me what my next plans -777 +805 00:36:17,304 --> 00:36:19,268 were. I said, well, you know, I just moved here to LA and -778 +806 00:36:19,268 --> 00:36:21,232 looking -779 +807 00:36:21,233 --> 00:36:24,353 for freelance work, but I also have this sheet music business -780 -00:36:24,353 --> 00:36:28,204 +808 +00:36:24,353 --> 00:36:26,278 that he just got started and she -was. Why I'm like, oh, okay. Well, +was. Why I'm like, oh, okay. -781 +809 +00:36:26,278 --> 00:36:28,203 +Well, + +810 00:36:29,403 --> 00:36:33,333 let me tell you why that was a little taken aback. I was like, -782 +811 00:36:33,333 --> 00:36:35,448 okay, great. Well, this -conversation won't last long, +812 +00:36:35,448 --> 00:36:37,563 +conversation won't last long, -784 -00:36:37,623 --> 00:36:40,324 +813 +00:36:37,563 --> 00:36:40,324 so I had a few people. They're just like, why would you, why -785 +814 00:36:40,324 --> 00:36:42,401 would you do that? But I just had a very specific. Vision of -786 +815 00:36:42,401 --> 00:36:44,478 what I -787 +816 00:36:44,478 --> 00:36:46,548 wanted with my sheet music business. And then people were -788 +817 00:36:46,548 --> 00:36:47,913 surprised that it actually turned into a business. I'm -789 +818 00:36:47,913 --> 00:36:49,278 like, well, -790 +819 00:36:49,309 --> 00:36:52,639 yeah, I told her I was going to do that. You didn't believe me. -791 +820 00:36:53,628 --> 00:36:56,748 And so, yeah, I think sometimes people will just reject it and -792 +821 00:36:56,748 --> 00:36:58,458 then once they see it come true and they're like, oh, okay. I -793 +822 00:36:58,458 --> 00:37:00,168 see -794 +823 00:37:00,168 --> 00:37:02,778 it there. I mean, the same thing happened with, with Disney where -795 +824 00:37:02,778 --> 00:37:04,233 people thought he was nuts to build a park in Anaheim where -796 +825 00:37:04,233 --> 00:37:05,688 all -797 +826 00:37:05,688 --> 00:37:07,553 these orange trees were and then. Obviously that worked out -798 +827 00:37:07,553 --> 00:37:09,418 for -799 +828 00:37:09,418 --> 00:37:11,113 him, but initially people thought he was just completely -800 +829 00:37:11,113 --> 00:37:12,808 nuts. Like -801 +830 00:37:12,809 --> 00:37:16,378 who's going to go to this park and where is Anaheim and Well, -802 +831 00:37:16,409 --> 00:37:17,429 people were wrong there. -803 +832 00:37:20,003 --> 00:37:21,844 Bekah: Well, I love that confidence that you talk It with -804 +833 00:37:21,864 --> 00:37:23,199 too. You're like, yeah, I'm going to do this thing because I -805 +834 00:37:23,199 --> 00:37:24,534 want -806 +835 00:37:24,534 --> 00:37:28,043 to do it. And it's a good idea. And at some point, people start -807 +836 00:37:28,043 --> 00:37:32,003 to buy into that idea because of how you present it and the -808 +837 00:37:32,003 --> 00:37:33,803 confidence that you use. And, oh, you're just like, love how -809 +838 00:37:33,803 --> 00:37:35,603 chill -810 +839 00:37:35,603 --> 00:37:37,664 you are when you talk about things. I'm like, oh yeah, yeah. -811 +840 00:37:37,673 --> 00:37:40,824 I would definitely work with Jessica on that, you know? -812 +841 00:37:42,068 --> 00:37:44,818 Jessica: I just like going for things cause it's like, Yeah, it -813 -00:37:44,818 --> 00:37:47,588 -either works out or it doesn't it. -And if it doesn't work out, I +842 +00:37:44,818 --> 00:37:46,203 +either works out or it doesn't +it. And if it doesn't work out, -814 +843 +00:37:46,203 --> 00:37:47,588 +I + +844 00:37:47,588 --> 00:37:50,318 learned something. I had plenty of things that didn't work out, -815 +845 00:37:50,708 --> 00:37:52,628 I'm glad I tried it. So I could at least learn along the way, -816 +846 00:37:52,628 --> 00:37:54,548 but -817 +847 00:37:54,639 --> 00:37:57,759 sometimes you just gotta go for it. You can't really play safe -818 +848 00:37:57,789 --> 00:38:00,438 and, and, you know what to do too risky. You don't want to go -819 +849 00:38:00,438 --> 00:38:01,963 like bankrupt or anything crazy, but like, you know, you just -820 +850 00:38:01,963 --> 00:38:03,488 want -821 +851 00:38:03,489 --> 00:38:07,583 to. If you have an idea and you feel really confident about it, -822 +852 00:38:07,583 --> 00:38:09,954 just, just go for it and take it one step at a time. There. -823 +853 00:38:10,929 --> 00:38:13,748 Dan: Yeah, it's a theme. That's come up a few times on the -824 +854 00:38:13,748 --> 00:38:16,889 podcast that, you know, it makes me think of a Structured YOLO. -825 +855 00:38:16,989 --> 00:38:20,528 -Nick Taylor, which is a -phrase he, he coined, you know, +Nick Taylor, which is a phrase +he, he coined, you know, -826 +856 00:38:20,528 --> 00:38:22,073 but it's the same sort of idea, right? It's is. You know, I -827 +857 00:38:22,073 --> 00:38:23,618 mean, -828 +858 00:38:25,059 --> 00:38:27,998 -don't want to go full YOLO, right. -But the +don't want to go full YOLO, +right. But the -829 +859 00:38:28,074 --> 00:38:28,614 Jessica: Exactly. -830 +860 00:38:28,778 --> 00:38:29,659 Dan: structured YOLO. Yeah, -831 +861 00:38:29,693 --> 00:38:30,563 Jessica: the way out there. I -832 +862 00:38:30,708 --> 00:38:30,918 Dan: yeah, -833 +863 00:38:31,103 --> 00:38:31,224 Jessica: my -834 +864 00:38:31,228 --> 00:38:32,139 Bekah: little bit of YOLO. -835 +865 00:38:32,588 --> 00:38:32,918 Dan: yeah, -836 +866 00:38:32,934 --> 00:38:35,213 Jessica: my business, I wasn't like, okay, cool. Let's just -837 +867 00:38:35,213 --> 00:38:37,224 raise all this money. No, that would have been crazy. Cause I -838 +868 00:38:37,224 --> 00:38:38,423 was like young, 20 something year old had didn't know what -839 +869 00:38:38,423 --> 00:38:39,622 they -840 +870 00:38:39,623 --> 00:38:41,138 were doing. Excited to take small little steps to get there. -841 +871 00:38:41,138 --> 00:38:42,653 I -842 +872 00:38:42,653 --> 00:38:46,673 couldn't go that big and do some crazy fundraising goal or -843 +873 00:38:46,673 --> 00:38:49,284 whatever when I had no clue what I was doing. So. -844 +874 00:38:49,559 --> 00:38:54,219 Dan: Absolutely. But the, know, the willingness to have an idea -845 +875 00:38:54,219 --> 00:38:59,048 that is not what a normal, I guess, whenever, you know, idea -846 +876 00:38:59,048 --> 00:39:01,028 that you might run into that conversation with somebody like, -847 +877 00:39:01,059 --> 00:39:03,039 well, why, why are you doing that? You know, but the -848 +878 00:39:03,039 --> 00:39:04,988 -willingness to, jump into -it, you know, and, and push +willingness to, jump into it, +you know, and, and push -849 +879 00:39:04,988 --> 00:39:06,937 through, -850 +880 00:39:06,969 --> 00:39:09,278 -I think is, a, know, a -valuable, valuable trait to +I think is, a, know, a valuable, +valuable trait to -851 +881 00:39:09,278 --> 00:39:11,587 have, -852 -00:39:11,588 --> 00:39:13,498 +882 +00:39:11,588 --> 00:39:12,543 you know, and obviously it's -served you, served you really well. +served you, served you really -853 +883 +00:39:12,543 --> 00:39:13,498 +well. + +884 00:39:16,043 --> 00:39:22,224 -Bekah: So sometimes, it can -be really challenging to write. +Bekah: So sometimes, it can be +really challenging to write. -854 +885 00:39:22,989 --> 00:39:29,289 Blog posts to get started and to receive feedback on blog posts. -855 +886 00:39:29,318 --> 00:39:33,239 You know, whether that's from an editor or somebody who has -856 +887 00:39:33,628 --> 00:39:42,369 commented on your posts in a way that is not, kind So how do -857 +888 00:39:42,369 --> 00:39:45,838 you navigate those challenging situations while you're writing? -858 +889 00:39:46,489 --> 00:39:48,431 Jessica: Yeah, It's feedback is always interesting, especially -859 +890 00:39:48,431 --> 00:39:50,373 in -860 +891 00:39:50,373 --> 00:39:51,768 the world of the internet because people can just hide -861 +892 00:39:51,768 --> 00:39:53,163 behind their -862 +893 00:39:53,164 --> 00:39:56,043 computers and save virtually anything to you that they -863 +894 00:39:56,043 --> 00:39:58,923 probably wouldn't say if you guys, if you were face-to-face -864 +895 00:39:58,923 --> 00:40:02,824 with them, but I try to just separate them between actual, -865 +896 00:40:02,824 --> 00:40:06,893 -constructive feedback versus. -ok this is not helpful. I'm just +constructive feedback versus. ok +this is not helpful. I'm just -866 +897 00:40:06,893 --> 00:40:09,983 going to move on. And so I've had, some constructive -867 +898 00:40:09,983 --> 00:40:13,643 feedback, like, oh, this is really good. could you like, -868 +899 00:40:13,793 --> 00:40:17,213 you know, expand on this part or could you talk more about this? -869 +900 00:40:17,213 --> 00:40:18,983 And I'm like, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And then there's -870 +901 00:40:18,983 --> 00:40:20,588 been times where it's like, well, I think it would be better -871 +902 00:40:20,588 --> 00:40:22,193 if you -872 +903 00:40:22,193 --> 00:40:25,014 went into this. I mean, that's what real developers do or -873 +904 00:40:25,014 --> 00:40:27,983 whatever. So I've got like those comments I'm like, okay, well -874 +905 00:40:27,983 --> 00:40:32,003 you're an obviously not helpful. And so I just learned that, -875 +906 00:40:32,003 --> 00:40:33,558 when I was running my business, There's just those comments -876 +907 00:40:33,558 --> 00:40:35,113 that, -877 +908 00:40:35,123 --> 00:40:38,923 that people just have to, you know, just write things and -878 +909 00:40:38,923 --> 00:40:41,864 you're just like, okay, I'm just not going to waste my energy on -879 +910 00:40:41,864 --> 00:40:46,003 that. It's a, luckily I haven't had too many just absolutely -880 +911 00:40:46,003 --> 00:40:49,063 -horrific things. at least -with my programming writing, +horrific things. at least with +my programming writing, -881 +912 00:40:49,094 --> 00:40:52,514 there was only one incident, that I had when I was running my -882 +913 00:40:52,574 --> 00:40:54,254 sheet music company, where there was this guy that went out of -883 +914 00:40:54,254 --> 00:40:55,934 his -884 +915 00:40:55,934 --> 00:41:01,054 way. To make accounts and post race, racist memes and stuff on -885 +916 00:41:01,054 --> 00:41:04,324 my page and on my YouTube channel. And I, of course I had -886 +917 00:41:04,324 --> 00:41:06,784 to block all that, but he would keep creating new accounts of -887 +918 00:41:06,793 --> 00:41:08,723 like, you're that threatened by what I'm doing, that you have to -888 +919 00:41:08,723 --> 00:41:10,653 spend -889 +920 00:41:10,653 --> 00:41:12,918 time. And so there are people out there that just are that -890 +921 00:41:12,918 --> 00:41:15,183 hateful -891 +922 00:41:15,813 --> 00:41:19,563 that you just exist because of your race or your gender. And -892 +923 00:41:19,653 --> 00:41:22,474 it's just like, okay, you know, it's a it's, it's okay to be -893 +924 00:41:22,474 --> 00:41:24,343 -human. Yeah. you know, feel -that and go, well, come on. +human. Yeah. you know, feel that +and go, well, come on. -894 +925 00:41:24,343 --> 00:41:26,212 Yeah. -895 +926 00:41:26,244 --> 00:41:27,433 But at the end of the day, you just have to remember like -896 +927 00:41:27,433 --> 00:41:28,622 that's -897 +928 00:41:28,643 --> 00:41:30,548 their issue, right. They they're just a hateful person. Is he -898 +929 00:41:30,548 --> 00:41:32,453 just -899 +930 00:41:32,454 --> 00:41:34,673 trying to block them and move on? and, and just focus on -900 +931 00:41:34,673 --> 00:41:36,892 the -901 +932 00:41:37,063 --> 00:41:38,658 helpful, constructive feedback as well as the positive feedback -902 +933 00:41:38,658 --> 00:41:40,253 to, -903 +934 00:41:40,403 --> 00:41:42,623 to know that you're on the right track, you're doing the right -904 +935 00:41:42,623 --> 00:41:42,744 thing there. -905 +936 00:41:44,963 --> 00:41:46,313 Bekah: Yeah, I really liked that. And that's for a long -906 +937 00:41:46,313 --> 00:41:47,663 time, I -907 +938 00:41:47,693 --> 00:41:52,134 stayed away from blogging on any platform except my own blog, -908 +939 00:41:52,164 --> 00:41:55,929 because I didn't have comments enabled. I couldn't see how many -909 +940 00:41:55,929 --> 00:41:57,923 people liked it, And I still frequently think about going -910 +941 00:41:57,923 --> 00:41:59,917 back -911 +942 00:41:59,918 --> 00:42:02,408 to that rather than cross posting other places that, that -912 +943 00:42:02,408 --> 00:42:04,898 have -913 +944 00:42:05,349 --> 00:42:08,469 those built-in things, because sometimes it can just, it can be -914 +945 00:42:08,469 --> 00:42:10,719 hard or you put a lot of time and effort into something maybe -915 +946 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,969 two -916 +947 00:42:12,969 --> 00:42:17,119 people like it versus the thing that I, I YOLO'ed on a Saturday -917 +948 00:42:17,139 --> 00:42:20,378 night. And then there's all of these hits and like, what, what -918 +949 00:42:20,378 --> 00:42:21,248 is this? -919 +950 00:42:22,059 --> 00:42:24,998 Jessica: Yeah. I I've been there so many times both with like -920 +951 00:42:24,998 --> 00:42:28,179 writing technical articles then with sheet music where I'll -921 +952 00:42:28,179 --> 00:42:31,239 release a new product I'll be like, oh, this is good. Totally -922 +953 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:32,766 sell through. This is gonna be a hit. And then. The sales are -923 +954 00:42:32,766 --> 00:42:34,293 like -924 +955 00:42:34,293 --> 00:42:38,134 nothing. I'm like, okay, wildly misjudged that. And then I'll -925 +956 00:42:38,134 --> 00:42:40,773 release another product then like, okay, this will do okay. -926 +957 00:42:40,773 --> 00:42:42,963 And then it ends up being a breakout. I'm like, what -927 +958 00:42:42,963 --> 00:42:47,193 happened? What did I misjudged? That it's the same thing with -928 +959 00:42:47,193 --> 00:42:49,594 writing where there'll be some articles. Actually, this just -929 +960 00:42:49,594 --> 00:42:53,253 happened with the CodePen and Replit articles, because I -930 +961 00:42:53,253 --> 00:42:54,903 decided to write those because -freeCodeCamp up uses both of +FreeCodeCamp up uses both of -931 +962 00:42:54,903 --> 00:42:56,553 those -932 +963 00:42:56,554 --> 00:42:59,998 -tools, in their -certifications. There really +tools, in their certifications. +There really -933 +964 00:42:59,998 --> 00:43:04,048 should be a guide to help them since it's based on the course. -934 +965 00:43:04,048 --> 00:43:05,398 And I just thought, okay, well, few people write these. -935 +966 00:43:05,398 --> 00:43:06,748 Hopefully -936 +967 00:43:06,748 --> 00:43:09,449 they'll just refer to them. But then both of them were retweeted -937 +968 00:43:09,478 --> 00:43:13,829 by the co-founders and the CEO. And I'm like, okay, that was -938 +969 00:43:13,858 --> 00:43:15,659 unexpected, but that's kind of cool. -939 +970 00:43:17,081 --> 00:43:21,608 Dan: Do you ever, like doing tech support comments, you know, -940 +971 00:43:21,608 --> 00:43:24,409 sections when you're writing technical articles, -941 +972 00:43:24,409 --> 00:43:27,568 Jessica: I do. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes someone's like, oh, I -942 +973 00:43:27,568 --> 00:43:31,259 tried this example from your article. It's not working. And -943 +974 00:43:31,259 --> 00:43:32,308 I'm like, oh, could you write the code? It's sometimes it's -944 +975 00:43:32,308 --> 00:43:33,357 hard. -945 +976 00:43:33,358 --> 00:43:36,329 Cause like Twitter and stuff, it's not really good for writing -946 +977 00:43:36,329 --> 00:43:37,319 code, but I'm like, I don't know, just try your best or take -947 +978 00:43:37,319 --> 00:43:38,309 a -948 +979 00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:41,429 picture or something. then I'll say, oh, you have this syntax -949 +980 00:43:41,429 --> 00:43:43,739 error right here. If you clean that up, that you should be good -950 +981 00:43:43,739 --> 00:43:47,829 to go. It's a. Sometimes just kind of, or actually this -951 +982 00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:50,679 just happened to, with, the NodeMailer article where they're -952 +983 00:43:50,679 --> 00:43:53,588 like, oh, could you put this up on, GitHub repos so we could -953 +984 00:43:53,588 --> 00:43:55,688 study it? And I was like, oh yeah, I should totally do that. -954 +985 00:43:55,688 --> 00:43:57,773 Cause I had just posted the final code in the article. and -955 +986 00:43:57,773 --> 00:43:59,858 without -956 +987 00:43:59,858 --> 00:44:03,548 thinking, like people would want to study it and, you know, -957 +988 00:44:03,548 --> 00:44:06,068 fork it and all this fun stuff. I was like, oh yeah, we should -958 +989 00:44:06,068 --> 00:44:10,088 probably do that. So I created a GitHub repository and then, -959 +990 00:44:10,119 --> 00:44:11,768 just shared it with that. But sometimes I'll kind of -960 +991 00:44:11,768 --> 00:44:14,018 troubleshoot with them as best as possible. but sometimes -961 +992 00:44:14,018 --> 00:44:16,268 their questions are vague. -962 +993 00:44:16,298 --> 00:44:19,719 I'm like, I'm not really sure what you're working with unless -963 +994 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,838 we like together on some sort of zoom meet, but I don't know how -964 +995 00:44:23,079 --> 00:44:24,369 feasible that is, but -965 +996 00:44:26,273 --> 00:44:27,833 Bekah: yeah. that doesn't scale. Well, I think. -966 +997 00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:33,518 Dan: What about, so you mentioned like code stuff like -967 +998 00:44:33,518 --> 00:44:38,409 -that. kind of, I dunno -process, or I guess I'm looking +that. kind of, I dunno process, +or I guess I'm looking -968 +999 00:44:38,409 --> 00:44:43,313 for advice generally. if, you if if your, article Involves a -969 +1000 00:44:43,313 --> 00:44:45,473 lot of code and stuff like that. Do you try to, like things -970 +1001 00:44:45,473 --> 00:44:47,633 up -971 +1002 00:44:47,634 --> 00:44:51,204 into little bits or make a link to Like, you know, like you -972 +1003 00:44:51,204 --> 00:44:53,574 -mentioned, what, what kind -of, of approaches do you take +mentioned, what, what kind of, +of approaches do you take -973 +1004 00:44:53,574 --> 00:44:56,213 -with, w with technical -articles and with +with, w with technical articles +and with -974 +1005 00:44:56,994 --> 00:44:58,568 Jessica: Yeah. So for some of the examples they're really -975 +1006 00:44:58,568 --> 00:45:00,142 small, -976 +1007 00:45:00,143 --> 00:45:04,494 like I just wrote one about, JavaScript contains or includes -977 +1008 00:45:04,494 --> 00:45:07,704 -method. and so those were -like really, really small, +method. and so those were like +really, really small, -978 +1009 00:45:07,824 --> 00:45:09,443 -code examples in there. But -then one of my other articles +code examples in there. But then +one of my other articles -979 +1010 00:45:09,443 --> 00:45:11,062 was -980 +1011 00:45:11,063 --> 00:45:13,568 on the MVC pattern. And so I kind of had to struggle with how -981 +1012 00:45:13,568 --> 00:45:16,073 much -982 +1013 00:45:16,074 --> 00:45:18,864 code am I going to include in this? Cause I built an app -983 +1014 00:45:18,864 --> 00:45:22,518 specifically to talk about that pattern. But I thought, okay, is -984 +1015 00:45:22,518 --> 00:45:25,969 this going to be a full walkthrough tutorial, or am I -985 +1016 00:45:25,969 --> 00:45:29,449 just going to give out chunks of it? So it ended up working where -986 +1017 00:45:29,449 --> 00:45:33,384 I said, okay, it's fine. If they don't. Work with that particular -987 +1018 00:45:33,384 --> 00:45:35,543 stack that I was working with and I was working with the MERN -988 +1019 00:45:35,543 --> 00:45:38,664 stack, but if I could just talk about the concepts and just have -989 +1020 00:45:38,664 --> 00:45:40,268 a few snippets of code and say, this is what this code does. -990 +1021 00:45:40,268 --> 00:45:41,872 Even -991 +1022 00:45:41,873 --> 00:45:44,994 if you're not a JavaScript developer, at least they can, -992 +1023 00:45:45,023 --> 00:45:48,384 there's some context. And I had the final, project there that -993 +1024 00:45:48,384 --> 00:45:51,503 they could look at and say, oh, okay, that's what she's doing -994 +1025 00:45:51,503 --> 00:45:54,173 here. And so sometimes you'll you just want to have like these -995 +1026 00:45:54,173 --> 00:45:56,364 small little code examples sometimes it's totally fine to -996 +1027 00:45:56,364 --> 00:45:58,669 just link to a repository if it's super super long. cause -997 +1028 00:45:58,669 --> 00:46:00,974 then -998 +1029 00:46:01,034 --> 00:46:04,034 there's that battle between length and it's like, how much -999 +1030 00:46:04,034 --> 00:46:08,173 are people really gonna read? If it's super, super long, there's -1000 +1031 00:46:08,173 --> 00:46:09,718 not too many, really long -articles on freeCodeCamp. +articles on FreeCodeCamp. -1001 +1032 00:46:09,718 --> 00:46:11,263 There's -1002 +1033 00:46:11,264 --> 00:46:14,474 a few that are like at 7,000 plus words. I personally haven't -1003 +1034 00:46:14,474 --> 00:46:17,331 written any of those. but I think my longest is 20 I think -1004 +1035 00:46:17,331 --> 00:46:20,188 my -1005 +1036 00:46:20,188 --> 00:46:21,838 longest was 3000, but that ended up just listing off all the -1006 +1037 00:46:21,838 --> 00:46:23,488 types -1007 +1038 00:46:23,489 --> 00:46:25,784 of like free courses you could take. but, yeah, I try to -1008 +1039 00:46:25,784 --> 00:46:28,079 hit -1009 +1040 00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:32,789 that magic mark of like 1500, a thousand words or less. I mean, -1010 +1041 00:46:32,789 --> 00:46:35,009 if there's only so much, you could write about some of these -1011 +1042 00:46:35,009 --> 00:46:38,849 methods where it's like, I can't write 1500 words on the includes -1012 +1043 00:46:38,849 --> 00:46:41,248 method for JavaScript. There's only so much you could do there -1013 +1044 00:46:42,208 --> 00:46:42,449 that. -1014 -00:46:43,403 --> 00:46:44,828 -Dan: Oh, that's a good note. I mean, -and that's also an interesting +1045 +00:46:43,403 --> 00:46:44,115 +Dan: Oh, that's a good note. I +mean, and that's also an -1015 +1046 +00:46:44,115 --> 00:46:44,827 +interesting + +1047 00:46:44,828 --> 00:46:46,253 thing -1016 +1048 00:46:46,253 --> 00:46:52,539 -to like of, you know, -writing, you. If you could feel +to like of, you know, writing, +you. If you could feel -1017 +1049 00:46:52,539 --> 00:46:55,329 yourself getting like too long, you know, it, do you try to cut -1018 +1050 00:46:55,329 --> 00:46:57,309 down or do you about splitting it up, but, you I suppose it -1019 +1051 00:46:57,309 --> 00:46:59,289 depends -1020 +1052 00:46:59,289 --> 00:47:03,668 on what platform you're on or Code Camp or not, or, you know, -1021 +1053 00:47:03,668 --> 00:47:05,268 but generally -1022 +1054 00:47:05,548 --> 00:47:05,728 Jessica: right. Cause -1023 +1055 00:47:05,798 --> 00:47:06,159 Dan: you know, -1024 +1056 00:47:06,344 --> 00:47:08,953 Jessica: I just joined dev.to, week ago and, or I think I -1025 +1057 00:47:08,953 --> 00:47:11,562 joined -1026 +1058 00:47:11,563 --> 00:47:16,184 a while for Nick's VS Code tips, and then just hadn't used it for -1027 +1059 00:47:16,184 --> 00:47:19,643 awhile then, like rejoined, I guess. for the NodeMailer -1028 +1060 00:47:19,664 --> 00:47:22,833 article, I was like, oh, Well, I have these ideas about how to -1029 +1061 00:47:22,833 --> 00:47:24,888 style the emails and how to, actually, you know, deploy -1030 +1062 00:47:24,888 --> 00:47:26,943 it -1031 +1063 00:47:26,943 --> 00:47:28,068 to Heroku. But maybe we could just break that up. That could -1032 +1064 00:47:28,068 --> 00:47:29,193 be -1033 +1065 00:47:29,193 --> 00:47:30,933 a separate article. And I like how in DEV.to, you can link -1034 +1066 00:47:30,933 --> 00:47:32,673 to -1035 +1067 00:47:32,673 --> 00:47:35,014 like, create your own little series and it will link all the -1036 +1068 00:47:35,014 --> 00:47:38,224 articles together. so sometimes when you're writing something, -1037 +1069 00:47:38,224 --> 00:47:41,284 you're like, huh, I have these other ideas. Maybe it could be -1038 +1070 00:47:41,284 --> 00:47:42,889 like, this is part one. And then this is part two and stick -1039 +1071 00:47:42,889 --> 00:47:44,494 around -1040 +1072 00:47:44,494 --> 00:47:47,253 for part three or something. think that's totally fine. Just -1041 +1073 00:47:47,253 --> 00:47:50,164 so it doesn't become this monster article. It's like, ah, -1042 +1074 00:47:50,699 --> 00:47:54,349 Everybody. It's the same thing with videos. I think some of the -1043 +1075 00:47:54,349 --> 00:47:58,099 -videos are super long on some -of these channels +videos are super long on some of +these channels -1044 +1076 00:47:58,224 --> 00:47:58,344 Dan: Yeah. -1045 +1077 00:47:58,759 --> 00:48:00,438 Jessica: where like, if somebody's going to sit through -1046 +1078 00:48:00,438 --> 00:48:03,679 17 hours or is that one of those things where you just got to -1047 +1079 00:48:03,679 --> 00:48:08,119 break it up into smaller bite size videos. but I guess -1048 +1080 00:48:08,119 --> 00:48:10,518 everybody has their own learning methods. So maybe there are -1049 +1081 00:48:10,518 --> 00:48:15,318 people that will go through a 17 hour video or, you know, 7,000. -1050 +1082 00:48:15,318 --> 00:48:17,594 Bekah: My husband used to -livestream for freeCodeCamp. And +livestream for FreeCodeCamp. And -1051 +1083 00:48:17,903 --> 00:48:21,673 sometimes he would do it for hours and people would stay the -1052 +1084 00:48:21,673 --> 00:48:22,233 whole time. -1053 +1085 00:48:22,273 --> 00:48:24,748 Jessica: Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's some like, yeah. I'm just like, -1054 +1086 00:48:24,869 --> 00:48:26,099 wow, how -1055 +1087 00:48:26,159 --> 00:48:30,028 Bekah: I just live stream for an hour for the first time ever, -1056 +1088 00:48:30,028 --> 00:48:35,998 probably by myself. I was tired of hearing myself talk, like, I -1057 +1089 00:48:35,998 --> 00:48:38,159 can't imagine how everybody else was feeling. You know -1058 +1090 00:48:38,219 --> 00:48:38,789 Jessica: right. -1059 +1091 00:48:39,028 --> 00:48:44,199 Bekah: my attention span to die. And then I, then I start YOLOing -1060 +1092 00:48:44,248 --> 00:48:47,849 things and it's, it's not, not the place I want to be -1061 +1093 00:48:48,179 --> 00:48:50,384 Jessica: Right. Right. You know, actually that reminds me, Danny -1062 +1094 00:48:50,384 --> 00:48:52,169 Thompson is one where he has these really long Twitter -1063 +1095 00:48:52,169 --> 00:48:53,954 spaces, -1064 +1096 00:48:53,983 --> 00:48:57,134 but they're really good. So that's why he kind of is able to -1065 +1097 00:48:57,134 --> 00:48:59,011 get away with it because for most people. They would kind of -1066 +1098 00:48:59,011 --> 00:49:00,888 die -1067 +1099 00:49:00,889 --> 00:49:05,389 off after like at 45 minutes or an hour, sometimes he'll go for -1068 +1100 00:49:05,389 --> 00:49:08,148 like three hours or longer. And then there's still like hundreds -1069 +1101 00:49:08,148 --> 00:49:12,079 of people and I'm just like, wow, that's kudos to him there. -1070 +1102 00:49:14,429 --> 00:49:15,659 Bekah: I feel like you need voice training for some or -1071 +1103 00:49:15,659 --> 00:49:16,889 something, -1072 +1104 00:49:16,918 --> 00:49:19,378 you know, like even talking, even when I used to teach night -1073 +1105 00:49:19,378 --> 00:49:24,208 classes, like three hours of having conversation and by the -1074 +1106 00:49:24,208 --> 00:49:27,266 end, My throat hurts, you know, and like I am done, I, I did -1075 +1107 00:49:27,266 --> 00:49:30,324 know -1076 -00:49:30,324 --> 00:49:35,773 -a teacher who was taking voice classes -for that reason, because they +1108 +00:49:30,324 --> 00:49:33,048 +a teacher who was taking voice +classes for that reason, because -1077 +1109 +00:49:33,048 --> 00:49:35,772 +they + +1110 00:49:35,784 --> 00:49:38,213 were saying, it's, it's how you're using your voice and you -1078 +1111 00:49:38,213 --> 00:49:39,503 have to do it in this different way. And then you'll be fine. -1079 +1112 00:49:39,503 --> 00:49:40,793 And -1080 +1113 00:49:40,793 --> 00:49:47,949 exercise your muscle. Like, ah, I know that's a lot. I mean, I -1081 +1114 00:49:47,949 --> 00:49:50,619 think it's the same thing for writing too. It's it's a muscle -1082 +1115 00:49:50,619 --> 00:49:53,679 that you have to exercise. So I imagine, I mean, you're writing -1083 +1116 00:49:53,679 --> 00:49:55,598 on a lot of new topics all the time and learning things, but -1084 +1117 00:49:55,598 --> 00:49:57,517 has -1085 +1118 00:49:57,518 --> 00:49:59,498 the writing process gotten easier? -1086 +1119 00:50:00,063 --> 00:50:03,543 Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I now have more of like a game plan on how -1087 +1120 00:50:03,543 --> 00:50:05,058 I'm going to enter into an article. And so I usually like -1088 +1121 00:50:05,058 --> 00:50:06,573 to -1089 +1122 00:50:06,574 --> 00:50:09,213 start off with just a little introductory paragraph, knowing -1090 +1123 00:50:09,213 --> 00:50:11,914 I'm probably going to edit it later on, but I just throw -1091 +1124 00:50:11,914 --> 00:50:15,003 something up and then I get into the meat of the article and kind -1092 +1125 00:50:15,003 --> 00:50:19,023 -of flesh it out. and then -once I clean up the actual main +of flesh it out. and then once I +clean up the actual main -1093 +1126 00:50:19,023 --> 00:50:21,994 part, then I can go through and come up with a really good -1094 +1127 00:50:22,023 --> 00:50:25,384 introductory paragraph and a conclusion there I try to focus -1095 +1128 00:50:25,384 --> 00:50:29,824 -all my intention, you know, -just writing the main parts. And +all my intention, you know, just +writing the main parts. And -1096 +1129 00:50:29,824 --> 00:50:33,139 sometimes I just do like a free write. Throw words on the page -1097 +1130 00:50:33,139 --> 00:50:35,089 and of them make it some of them, I cut out sections. I'm -1098 +1131 00:50:35,089 --> 00:50:37,039 like, I -1099 +1132 00:50:37,039 --> 00:50:38,748 don't know what this was. I mean, that just happened with -1100 +1133 00:50:38,748 --> 00:50:40,457 the -1101 +1134 00:50:40,458 --> 00:50:42,168 article a few weeks ago on how to create tables and SQL. And -1102 +1135 00:50:42,168 --> 00:50:43,878 some -1103 +1136 00:50:43,878 --> 00:50:47,208 of those sections of like, why this doesn't make any sense. I -1104 +1137 00:50:47,208 --> 00:50:48,948 don't know why this, I thought this was relevant, but I was -1105 +1138 00:50:48,948 --> 00:50:50,688 just -1106 +1139 00:50:50,688 --> 00:50:53,028 throwing words on the page. I'm like, oh, I should talk about -1107 +1140 00:50:53,028 --> 00:50:54,950 this. And then I read it back. No, I shouldn't have talked -1108 +1141 00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:56,872 about -1109 +1142 00:50:56,873 --> 00:50:59,784 that, but that's an easier? for us to kind of cut things out -1110 +1143 00:50:59,784 --> 00:51:02,844 there and then just reshape it into something acceptable that I -1111 +1144 00:51:02,844 --> 00:51:05,693 could send to the editor. she doesn't have to look at it and -1112 +1145 00:51:05,693 --> 00:51:06,773 go, what is this? -1113 -00:51:08,463 --> 00:51:10,864 +1146 +00:51:08,463 --> 00:51:09,663 Dan: There's one of the benefits -of the writing medium, right? Is do you +of the writing medium, right? Is -1114 +1147 +00:51:09,663 --> 00:51:10,863 +do you + +1148 00:51:10,864 --> 00:51:14,733 have the, it easier to go back and things out that don't make -1115 +1149 00:51:14,733 --> 00:51:14,974 sense, -1116 +1150 00:51:15,364 --> 00:51:16,324 Jessica: Exactly. Yeah. -1117 +1151 00:51:16,384 --> 00:51:18,439 Dan: as opposed to maybe a live streamer, something things to -1118 +1152 00:51:18,439 --> 00:51:20,494 get -1119 +1153 00:51:20,494 --> 00:51:20,914 out there? -1120 +1154 00:51:20,983 --> 00:51:23,143 Bekah: the expectation of live streaming, so -1121 +1155 00:51:23,474 --> 00:51:23,914 Dan: no, for sure. -1122 +1156 00:51:24,974 --> 00:51:29,300 -Bekah: acceptable thing. I -can't remember what to say. Oh, +Bekah: acceptable thing. I can't +remember what to say. Oh, -1123 +1157 00:51:29,300 --> 00:51:33,626 I -1124 +1158 00:51:33,626 --> 00:51:36,539 -know what I was gonna say. -Rough drafts are so important. +know what I was gonna say. Rough +drafts are so important. -1125 +1159 00:51:36,539 --> 00:51:39,452 I, -1126 +1160 00:51:39,452 --> 00:51:41,641 and I think that it's worth it to point out that there's a -1127 +1161 00:51:41,641 --> 00:51:43,830 process -1128 +1162 00:51:43,862 --> 00:51:46,081 that you get better at that process. And you have a rough -1129 +1163 00:51:46,081 --> 00:51:50,132 draft. No, nobody puts out a perfect rough draft, a perfect -1130 +1164 00:51:50,132 --> 00:51:54,141 draft. The first time it is a process and it does take time. -1131 -00:51:55,097 --> 00:51:59,206 -But You know, just listening to you -talk about tech, Jessica, you +1165 +00:51:55,097 --> 00:51:57,151 +But You know, just listening to +you talk about tech, Jessica, -1132 +1166 +00:51:57,151 --> 00:51:59,205 +you + +1167 00:51:59,237 --> 00:52:04,967 communicate it so wellthat it's really, I feel like I learned a -1133 +1168 00:52:04,967 --> 00:52:08,757 lot just hearing you talk about these things. And so you can -1134 +1169 00:52:08,757 --> 00:52:12,286 really appreciate that process of learning and then, and how it -1135 +1170 00:52:12,286 --> 00:52:16,916 impacts the way that you talk about things. And I imagine it, -1136 +1171 00:52:16,936 --> 00:52:18,991 that goes into interviewing and stuff like that. Because if you -1137 +1172 00:52:18,991 --> 00:52:21,046 talk -1138 +1173 00:52:21,047 --> 00:52:22,797 with credibility, then people are more likely to. see you -1139 +1174 00:52:22,797 --> 00:52:24,547 as a -1140 +1175 00:52:24,547 --> 00:52:25,536 credible person. -1141 +1176 00:52:26,356 --> 00:52:29,297 Jessica: Yeah, Yeah. And that's the thing is that want to come -1142 +1177 00:52:29,297 --> 00:52:31,187 across as, how can I add value to the company or organization -1143 +1178 00:52:31,187 --> 00:52:33,077 if -1144 +1179 00:52:33,077 --> 00:52:36,166 you come across as I just really need a job? Well, the company's -1145 +1180 00:52:36,166 --> 00:52:37,546 not really hiring you because you need a job. Like they're -1146 +1181 00:52:37,546 --> 00:52:38,926 hiring -1147 +1182 00:52:38,927 --> 00:52:40,727 you because they need people to join their team and add value. -1148 +1183 00:52:40,727 --> 00:52:42,527 if -1149 +1184 00:52:42,527 --> 00:52:45,376 you come in and say, here's how I can add value to you, then -1150 +1185 00:52:45,376 --> 00:52:48,347 they'll listen. And I think that's just coming in with a -1151 +1186 00:52:48,347 --> 00:52:51,291 little bit of confidence. Will go a long way there. -1152 +1187 00:52:53,206 --> 00:52:55,111 Bekah: Yeah, absolutely. So we're at about time here, but -1153 +1188 00:52:55,111 --> 00:52:57,016 are there -1154 +1189 00:52:57,016 --> 00:53:02,297 any last tips that you have for our listeners about getting, -1155 +1190 00:53:02,297 --> 00:53:04,007 started with writing? -1156 +1191 00:53:04,967 --> 00:53:09,737 -Jessica: I think just the -best tip is just, get started. I +Jessica: I think just the best +tip is just, get started. I -1157 +1192 00:53:09,737 --> 00:53:12,106 think a lot of people procrastinate because they're -1158 +1193 00:53:12,106 --> 00:53:13,006 like, I don't know what to write about. I don't know what to do. -1159 +1194 00:53:13,006 --> 00:53:13,906 I -1160 +1195 00:53:13,907 --> 00:53:17,416 don't know how to get started. get started and just start -1161 +1196 00:53:17,416 --> 00:53:19,936 working from there. And you can always ask for feedback within -1162 +1197 00:53:19,936 --> 00:53:21,406 your community and say, Hey, I'm writing this article. I dunno -1163 +1198 00:53:21,406 --> 00:53:22,876 how -1164 +1199 00:53:22,876 --> 00:53:27,496 it really works it yet, or it needs some help, but, don't -1165 -00:53:27,496 --> 00:53:31,211 -wait for the perfect momnet. To get -started writing? to just start +1200 +00:53:27,496 --> 00:53:29,353 +wait for the perfect momnet. To +get started writing? to just -1166 +1201 +00:53:29,353 --> 00:53:31,210 +start + +1202 00:53:31,211 --> 00:53:32,666 writing, to start throwing some words on the page, start -1167 +1203 00:53:32,666 --> 00:53:34,121 creating -1168 +1204 00:53:34,121 --> 00:53:37,961 an outline, then you can shape it and edit it down from there. -1169 -00:53:39,271 --> 00:53:41,221 -Bekah: Awesome. thank you so much for -being here with us today. This +1205 +00:53:39,271 --> 00:53:40,246 +Bekah: Awesome. thank you so +much for being here with us -1170 +1206 +00:53:40,246 --> 00:53:41,221 +today. This + +1207 00:53:41,221 --> 00:53:43,171 is really great -1171 +1208 00:53:43,257 --> 00:53:43,617 Dan: Yeah. -1172 +1209 00:53:43,652 --> 00:53:46,771 Bekah: to hear you talk about this and your journey. You have -1173 +1210 00:53:46,771 --> 00:53:49,592 so many fascinating things, and I'm really glad that we got to -1174 +1211 00:53:49,592 --> 00:53:50,311 hear them today. -1175 +1212 00:53:50,621 --> 00:53:52,181 Jessica: Yeah. Well, Thank you, so much for having me. -1176 +1213 00:53:52,516 --> 00:53:54,617 Dan: Yeah. Thank you, Jessica. I appreciate it. -1177 +1214 00:53:55,411 --> 00:53:56,132 Bekah: Okay, bye. -1178 +1215 00:53:56,851 --> 00:53:57,000 Jessica: Bye. -1178 -00:53:57,010 --> 00:53:57,211 +1216 Dan: Bye. -1179 +1217 00:54:01,023 --> 00:54:03,333 Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual -1180 +1218 00:54:03,333 --> 00:54:06,853 Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah -1181 +1219 00:54:06,873 --> 00:54:10,034 Hawrot Weigel, and was edited by Andy Bonjour at GoodDay -1182 +1220 00:54:10,054 --> 00:54:12,844 Communications. If you have questions or comments, you can -1183 +1221 00:54:12,844 --> 00:54:16,083 hit us up on Twitter at VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at -1184 +1222 00:54:16,083 --> 00:54:18,513 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up -1185 +1223 00:54:18,513 --> 00:54:20,943 for -1186 +1224 00:54:20,943 --> 00:54:23,284 our newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our -1187 +1225 00:54:23,284 --> 00:54:25,518 website at virtualcoffee.io. And of course join us for our -1188 +1226 00:54:25,518 --> 00:54:27,752 Virtual -1189 +1227 00:54:27,753 --> 00:54:30,603 Coffee Chats every Tuesday at 9 am Eastern and Thursday at -1190 +1228 00:54:30,603 --> 00:54:32,401 12 pm Eastern Please subscribe to our podcast and be -1191 +1229 00:54:32,401 --> 00:54:34,199 sure to -1192 +1230 00:54:34,199 --> 00:54:37,260 leave us a review. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next -1193 +1231 00:54:37,260 --> 00:54:37,590 week! \ No newline at end of file From adc8f31711d309e6f2289d1d36f3ebd8d032c140 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Chris Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 13:51:20 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 12/13] improved transcript, ran str check --- episodes/4_7.srt | 2596 ++++++++++++++++++++++++---------------------- 1 file changed, 1334 insertions(+), 1262 deletions(-) diff --git a/episodes/4_7.srt b/episodes/4_7.srt index 55db7d5..c0a6524 100644 --- a/episodes/4_7.srt +++ b/episodes/4_7.srt @@ -211,5574 +211,5646 @@ musician learning how to code. I am also a technical writer for 46 -00:02:17,418 --> 00:02:21,948 -FreeCodeCamp News. my favorite -movie was actually the Toy Story +00:02:17,418 --> 00:02:19,683 +FreeCodeCamp News and my +favorite movie was actually the 47 +00:02:19,683 --> 00:02:21,948 +Toy Story + +48 00:02:21,948 --> 00:02:23,868 movies. And so the original one, but all four of them are -48 +49 00:02:23,868 --> 00:02:25,788 amazing there. -49 +50 00:02:26,992 --> 00:02:27,724 Dan: Nice, those are on big rotation at our house with, with -50 +51 00:02:27,724 --> 00:02:28,456 our -51 +52 00:02:28,457 --> 00:02:29,922 kids. -52 +53 00:02:29,923 --> 00:02:32,103 We also enjoy them. They're [crosstalk] solid. -53 +54 00:02:32,103 --> 00:02:35,818 Jessica: I totally cried. When Andy went to college, I bawled -54 +55 00:02:35,848 --> 00:02:38,877 like a little baby. I'm like, oh my gosh, he can't leave. And -55 +56 00:02:38,877 --> 00:02:42,568 then he was giving his toys to the little girl. I'm like, I -56 +57 00:02:42,568 --> 00:02:43,728 mean, teary-eyed now. -57 +58 00:02:43,728 --> 00:02:43,948 Dan: Yes. -58 +59 00:02:44,207 --> 00:02:44,518 Jessica: ya know? -59 +60 00:02:44,927 --> 00:02:45,897 Dan: I actually tried to discourage that. That's I -60 +61 00:02:45,897 --> 00:02:46,867 Toy Story -61 +62 00:02:46,867 --> 00:02:49,048 three. I tried to actually discourage Toy Story 3 just -62 +63 00:02:49,048 --> 00:02:52,298 because it. It's very good. It's about it is emotionally, -63 +64 00:02:52,418 --> 00:02:52,867 affecting -64 +65 00:02:53,568 --> 00:02:53,747 Jessica: Right, -65 +66 00:02:53,798 --> 00:02:54,397 Dan: absolutely. -66 +67 00:02:54,812 --> 00:02:57,752 Bekah: my oldest is 12 and he'll look at me and be like, are you -67 +68 00:02:57,752 --> 00:03:00,272 crying? yes. -68 +69 00:03:00,782 --> 00:03:02,902 Jessica: It's very sad. We grew up with Andy. -69 +70 00:03:04,133 --> 00:03:07,492 Dan: Dude, I entertainment. Like it takes on a whole new slant -70 +71 00:03:07,492 --> 00:03:10,402 when, especially when you have kids. Cause like I just find -71 +72 00:03:10,402 --> 00:03:13,223 myself being, you know, affected by this stuff in -72 +73 00:03:13,223 --> 00:03:16,342 different ways, you know? And it's like, I don't it's matter. -73 +74 00:03:16,372 --> 00:03:16,733 -It's cool. +It's cool. it's good stuff. -74 +75 00:03:17,772 --> 00:03:23,117 Bekah: It's been wild rereading novels. I read. As like a young -75 +76 00:03:23,117 --> 00:03:26,492 adult to my kids. I, because I always loved young adult fiction -76 +77 00:03:26,492 --> 00:03:29,867 and I -77 +78 00:03:29,867 --> 00:03:35,027 always loved the young adult -character. Right. And now as a +character. Right? And now as a -78 +79 00:03:35,027 --> 00:03:40,068 parent, when I read it, I with the parents and the novels and -79 +80 00:03:40,068 --> 00:03:42,707 I'm like, oh, they don't understand what they're doing to -80 +81 00:03:42,707 --> 00:03:47,867 their parents. So, yeah, it's very different, lots of crying -81 +82 00:03:47,867 --> 00:03:49,358 and young adult novel reading too. -82 +83 00:03:49,358 --> 00:03:53,043 Dan: Yeah. at some point I realized it with Calvin and -83 +84 00:03:53,043 --> 00:03:56,342 Hobbes. I was a big Calvin and Hobbes fan Growing up and found -84 +85 00:03:56,342 --> 00:03:59,492 myself recently, you know, identifying much more with -85 +86 00:04:02,052 --> 00:04:02,962 -the parents. Anyway, +the parents. [chuckes] Anyway, -86 +87 00:04:03,872 --> 00:04:05,372 Bekah: Welcome. Jessica it's so great to have you here with -87 +88 00:04:05,372 --> 00:04:06,872 us -88 -00:04:06,872 --> 00:04:09,437 -today, because we did a lunch -and learn recently with Jessica - 89 +00:04:06,872 --> 00:04:08,154 +today, especially because we did +a lunch and learn recently with + +90 +00:04:08,154 --> 00:04:09,436 +Jessica + +91 00:04:09,437 --> 00:04:12,002 and -90 +92 00:04:12,002 --> 00:04:13,412 we'll put the link to that in the show notes. And she did such -91 +93 00:04:13,412 --> 00:04:14,822 a -92 +94 00:04:14,823 --> 00:04:17,298 good job about talking us through writing and writing -93 +95 00:04:17,298 --> 00:04:19,773 career. And -94 +96 00:04:19,802 --> 00:04:23,072 it is our monthly challenge this month, every month we hold a -95 +97 00:04:23,072 --> 00:04:26,492 monthly challenge, in the community is welcome to do it. -96 +98 00:04:26,492 --> 00:04:30,468 And this is. The one-year anniversary of when we started -97 +99 00:04:30,468 --> 00:04:34,098 monthly challenges. And so it's one of my favorites. It's the -98 +100 00:04:34,098 --> 00:04:38,148 blog writing challenge and it's based off of NaNoWriMo national -99 +101 00:04:38,148 --> 00:04:44,867 novel writing month. And so Jessica is just an amazing -100 +102 00:04:44,927 --> 00:04:51,017 writer. And we kicked off the blogging challenge and our goal -101 +103 00:04:51,017 --> 00:04:55,757 was hit 50,000 words. That's what, as a community, that's -102 +104 00:04:55,757 --> 00:04:57,062 what it was last year. We didn't quite make it. We almost made -103 +105 00:04:57,062 --> 00:04:58,367 it, -104 +106 00:04:58,968 --> 00:05:01,158 but this year in, today is Tuesday, November 9th. We have -105 +107 00:05:01,158 --> 00:05:03,348 already -106 +108 00:05:03,918 --> 00:05:06,408 have we? where are we at? We're past halfway. -107 +109 00:05:06,947 --> 00:05:10,367 Jessica: I think we're at 27,000, I think. Yeah. -108 +110 00:05:10,908 --> 00:05:13,307 Bekah: and largely in part due to Jessica -109 +111 00:05:13,408 --> 00:05:15,452 Dan: Yep. Over well, over 28,000. Yeah. -110 +112 00:05:15,577 --> 00:05:16,208 Jessica: Oh, cool. cool. -111 +113 00:05:17,148 --> 00:05:18,857 Bekah: So extra happy to have you here to talk about this -112 +114 00:05:18,857 --> 00:05:20,566 challenge -113 +115 00:05:20,567 --> 00:05:24,197 with us. But before we jump into that, we always like to get your -114 +116 00:05:24,197 --> 00:05:28,487 origin story and you have a awesome one. So tell us a little -115 +117 00:05:28,487 --> 00:05:32,517 bit about how you got to this point in your career. -116 +118 00:05:33,127 --> 00:05:36,603 Jessica: Yeah. it's definitely unique there. So I grew up in -117 +119 00:05:36,603 --> 00:05:38,147 Southern California. I grew up in a town called Palm Springs, -118 +120 00:05:38,147 --> 00:05:39,691 which -119 +121 00:05:39,692 --> 00:05:42,212 is like two hours south of Los Angeles in California there. -120 +122 00:05:42,212 --> 00:05:44,732 And, -121 +123 00:05:44,793 --> 00:05:47,297 grew up with a single mom who was a teacher. And so. I -122 +124 00:05:47,297 --> 00:05:49,801 got -123 +125 00:05:49,802 --> 00:05:54,213 into a music pretty early at seven, and then just kind of -124 +126 00:05:54,213 --> 00:05:56,822 stuck with it. And it pretty early on, I decided I'm going to -125 +127 00:05:56,822 --> 00:06:00,632 be a professional musician. and so I started with piano and -126 +128 00:06:00,632 --> 00:06:02,597 then I at 11 started learning the oboe, which is like a -127 +129 00:06:02,597 --> 00:06:04,562 woodwind -128 +130 00:06:04,562 --> 00:06:08,642 instrument. And I. At first didn't really like it. Cause I -129 +131 00:06:08,642 --> 00:06:09,752 didn't sound that good at it, [chuckles] -130 +132 00:06:10,577 --> 00:06:10,757 Dan: Yeah. -131 +133 00:06:10,923 --> 00:06:12,182 Jessica: then I started to kind of get into it. I was like, -132 +134 00:06:12,182 --> 00:06:13,441 okay, -133 +135 00:06:13,442 --> 00:06:15,723 cool. So then I started doing like festivals and private -134 +136 00:06:15,723 --> 00:06:19,202 lessons and all that fun stuff. And I decided like 15, I'm going -135 +137 00:06:19,202 --> 00:06:21,482 to go, try to go to music school or conservatory. And go down -136 +138 00:06:21,482 --> 00:06:23,762 that -137 +139 00:06:23,762 --> 00:06:27,273 route and be a classical professional musician. and so, -138 +140 00:06:27,273 --> 00:06:31,142 when I graduated from college or from high school, I went on to -139 +141 00:06:31,353 --> 00:06:33,348 Eastman School of Music, which is in Rochester, New York, -140 +142 00:06:33,348 --> 00:06:35,343 and -141 +143 00:06:35,343 --> 00:06:39,002 study there for four years on oboe performance. And then I -142 +144 00:06:39,033 --> 00:06:42,093 graduated and went on to a Master's at University of -143 +145 00:06:42,093 --> 00:06:44,683 Michigan, which is in Ann Arbor. and then after that, I decided -144 +146 00:06:44,683 --> 00:06:47,273 to -145 +147 00:06:47,312 --> 00:06:50,478 Southern California because the cold was just not agreeing with -146 +148 00:06:50,478 --> 00:06:52,353 me. So after six years of really cold weather, I was like, no -147 +149 00:06:52,353 --> 00:06:54,228 hard -148 +150 00:06:54,228 --> 00:06:58,517 pass. Let's go back to Southern California. So I came back and -149 +151 00:06:58,608 --> 00:07:00,828 decided that I wanted to start my own sheet music company and -150 +152 00:07:00,828 --> 00:07:03,048 -run +run that. -151 -00:07:03,048 --> 00:07:08,362 -that. And then also, perform and +153 +Dan: That's cool. + +154 +00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:08,362 +And then also, perform and freelance and so. from -152 +155 00:07:08,362 --> 00:07:14,723 2015 to 2020, all I did was perform and record and run my -153 +156 00:07:14,723 --> 00:07:18,413 sheet music company and teach. And so I was kind of busy with -154 +157 00:07:18,413 --> 00:07:21,068 all that fun stuff. And then 2020 happened and everything -155 +158 00:07:21,068 --> 00:07:23,723 [chuckles] changed. -156 +159 00:07:23,723 --> 00:07:28,642 So for everybody, but me, it was just okay, go home. And there's -157 +160 00:07:28,642 --> 00:07:32,028 no work for you. and I'm like Great. So what am I supposed to -158 +161 00:07:32,028 --> 00:07:36,317 do now? So I just worked on the business and try to keep that -159 +162 00:07:36,557 --> 00:07:38,612 going and afloat and changing there, for a few months. But -160 +163 00:07:38,612 --> 00:07:40,667 then -161 +164 00:07:40,668 --> 00:07:45,617 in June of 2020, you know, US was going through a lot with -162 +165 00:07:45,648 --> 00:07:50,377 COVID and then race relations with the George Floyd murder And -163 +166 00:07:50,403 --> 00:07:54,093 so a lot of people were talking about diversity issues within -164 +167 00:07:54,093 --> 00:07:56,913 many industries, including myself, right? My industry with -165 +168 00:07:56,913 --> 00:07:58,547 the classical world of operas and orchestras, cause there's a -166 +169 00:07:58,547 --> 00:08:00,181 huge -167 +170 00:08:00,182 --> 00:08:02,282 -diversity problem, with, with -black representation, +diversity problem, with, black +representation, -168 +171 00:08:02,282 --> 00:08:04,382 especially. -169 +172 00:08:04,382 --> 00:08:06,427 And so people were asking me. Yeah. Can you give me -170 +173 00:08:06,427 --> 00:08:08,472 information -171 +174 00:08:08,473 --> 00:08:10,797 about composers I can learn about so we can start to change. -172 +175 00:08:10,797 --> 00:08:13,121 And I -173 +176 00:08:13,122 --> 00:08:15,103 decided there should be a website. Like there should just -174 -00:08:15,103 --> 00:08:18,673 +177 +00:08:15,103 --> 00:08:16,888 be one place where people can -find all this stuff. I, I was +find all this stuff. and I, I -175 +178 +00:08:16,888 --> 00:08:18,673 +was + +179 00:08:18,673 --> 00:08:20,443 like, well, maybe could build it. I've never built anything. -176 +180 00:08:20,443 --> 00:08:22,213 I've -177 +181 00:08:22,213 --> 00:08:23,878 never coded before, but Hey, we've got all this time, so -178 +182 00:08:23,878 --> 00:08:25,543 maybe -179 +183 00:08:25,543 --> 00:08:27,717 we'll learn and see what happens. So that's how I got -180 +184 00:08:27,717 --> 00:08:29,891 into -181 +185 00:08:30,043 --> 00:08:33,942 programming and been doing this for about a year and a half now. -182 +186 00:08:34,543 --> 00:08:37,137 Yeah, so that's kind of my origin story and how I got into, -183 +187 00:08:37,137 --> 00:08:39,731 where -184 +188 00:08:39,732 --> 00:08:40,182 I'm at now. -185 +189 00:08:41,633 --> 00:08:44,023 Bekah: That's so awesome. Does that site still exist out there? -186 +190 00:08:44,842 --> 00:08:46,987 Jessica: Yes, so I created, version one about six months -187 +191 00:08:46,987 --> 00:08:49,132 into -188 +192 00:08:49,133 --> 00:08:52,432 my learning and it's called the Black Excellence Music Project. -189 +193 00:08:52,913 --> 00:08:58,222 And I built that with HTML, CSS, and Vanilla JavaScript. and then -190 +194 00:08:58,222 --> 00:09:02,898 I revisited it a few months ago, over the summer of 2021 -191 +195 00:09:03,768 --> 00:09:07,067 -create a version two, which was +created version two, which was built with React and Tailwind -192 +196 00:09:07,067 --> 00:09:11,597 CSS, and has more artists and more games and all of this fun -193 +197 00:09:11,597 --> 00:09:13,487 stuff. and yeah, so this was always like a passion project. -194 +198 00:09:13,487 --> 00:09:15,377 And so I -195 -00:09:15,378 --> 00:09:19,508 -got into tech I wanted to switch -careers. I thought initially in +199 +00:09:15,378 --> 00:09:17,443 +got into tech not because I +wanted to switch careers. I -196 +200 +00:09:17,443 --> 00:09:19,508 +thought initially in + +201 00:09:19,508 --> 00:09:22,187 June I was like, oh, this thing will just blow over eventually. -197 +202 00:09:22,187 --> 00:09:25,158 And I go back to my old life and yeah. Obviously not what -198 +203 00:09:25,158 --> 00:09:29,957 -happened. I wildly miss, -understood how COVID works. I +happened. I wildly misunderstood +how COVID works. I -199 +204 Bekah: same -200 +205 00:09:31,005 --> 00:09:32,388 Dan: everyone did. -201 +206 totally thought this was just going to be like a couple of -202 +207 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,918 months and I was completely wrong. So, but, and then I ended -203 +208 00:09:36,918 --> 00:09:40,727 up starting to get developer work, and that was kinda -204 +209 00:09:40,758 --> 00:09:44,238 cool. And then I started writing for FreeCodeCamp, which was also -205 +210 00:09:44,238 --> 00:09:45,828 kind of cool. and I was like, well, maybe I could have a -206 +211 00:09:45,828 --> 00:09:47,418 career -207 +212 00:09:47,418 --> 00:09:49,128 there. So yeah. -208 +213 00:09:49,648 --> 00:09:55,148 Bekah: That is so awesome. So, that project is an open -209 +214 00:09:55,148 --> 00:09:56,018 source project, right? -210 +215 00:09:56,548 --> 00:10:00,268 Jessica: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's available on my personal -211 +216 00:10:00,268 --> 00:10:03,148 GitHub, but it's completely open source. It's a, anybody could -212 +217 00:10:03,148 --> 00:10:04,423 like dive in there and if they want to contribute there, I'm -213 +218 00:10:04,423 --> 00:10:05,698 pretty -214 +219 00:10:05,698 --> 00:10:08,248 open -215 +220 00:10:08,248 --> 00:10:09,957 to that. So, yeah. -216 +221 00:10:10,327 --> 00:10:12,847 Bekah: Right. It is really awesome. And again, those links -217 +222 00:10:12,847 --> 00:10:21,243 will be in the show notes I just -think seem like. So driven +think you seem like. So driven -218 +223 00:10:21,243 --> 00:10:25,773 and motivated from everything that you've talked about your -219 +224 00:10:25,982 --> 00:10:27,902 career as a musician, you know, at 15 years old, you decided -220 +225 00:10:27,902 --> 00:10:29,822 that -221 +226 00:10:29,822 --> 00:10:34,743 you were going to do this thing, and that's not an easy thing. So -222 +227 00:10:34,743 --> 00:10:38,192 you have this, I don't know, Tenacity or, or something. How -223 -00:10:38,192 --> 00:10:42,722 +228 +00:10:38,192 --> 00:10:40,457 would you kind of describe that, -that that's allowed you to go +that driviness that's allowed -224 +229 +00:10:40,457 --> 00:10:42,722 +you to go + +230 00:10:42,722 --> 00:10:45,373 through these different things and accomplish so much. -225 +231 00:10:45,913 --> 00:10:50,253 Jessica: I think that's in large part to both my mom and my -226 +232 00:10:50,253 --> 00:10:54,302 grandmother. And so both of them were single parents. And so one -227 +233 00:10:54,302 --> 00:10:56,522 was by choice. my mom, worked as a teacher for many -228 +234 00:10:56,522 --> 00:10:58,742 years and -229 +235 00:10:58,743 --> 00:11:01,442 then in her forties decided that she wanted to adopt and have a -230 +236 00:11:01,442 --> 00:11:04,712 child. and so, she had me when she was like 44 or 45. -231 +237 00:11:04,712 --> 00:11:07,982 And -232 +238 00:11:07,982 --> 00:11:12,452 then with my grandmother, she was married, but it was -233 +239 00:11:12,452 --> 00:11:15,332 unfortunately an abusive situation. So she had to get out -234 +240 00:11:15,332 --> 00:11:19,263 and get to safety and raise two kids by herself and was also a -235 +241 00:11:19,263 --> 00:11:22,052 teacher. but then went on to, you know, own land in -236 +242 00:11:22,052 --> 00:11:24,841 certain -237 +243 00:11:24,842 --> 00:11:27,107 parts of California and just be fiercely independent. and so I -238 +244 00:11:27,107 --> 00:11:29,372 just -239 +245 00:11:29,373 --> 00:11:31,952 kind of picked up on that, where if they decided they were going -240 -00:11:31,952 --> 00:11:33,902 +246 +00:11:31,952 --> 00:11:32,927 to do something, they just went -for it. Growing up with that +for it. so I, Growing up with -241 +247 +00:11:32,927 --> 00:11:33,902 +that + +248 00:11:33,902 --> 00:11:35,852 type -242 +249 00:11:35,852 --> 00:11:37,307 of mindset and energy, it's like, well, I guess That's just -243 +250 00:11:37,307 --> 00:11:38,762 what we -244 +251 00:11:38,763 --> 00:11:42,312 do here. If you just want to go do something. so when I -245 +252 00:11:42,513 --> 00:11:46,863 discovered my love for operas and orchestra and this weird, -246 +253 00:11:46,863 --> 00:11:48,438 beautiful instrument of the oboe, I was like, I want to go -247 +254 00:11:48,438 --> 00:11:50,013 do that -248 +255 00:11:50,552 --> 00:11:54,633 I want to go achieve that. And so I just went for it definitely -249 +256 00:11:54,633 --> 00:11:56,943 didn't think I was going to get in to. The conservatory I was, -250 +257 00:11:56,943 --> 00:11:59,253 but it -251 +258 00:11:59,253 --> 00:12:04,173 ended up working out thankfully, but leading up to it cause I got -252 +259 00:12:04,383 --> 00:12:06,643 four rejections and then the -last one was an exception into +last one was an acception into -253 +260 00:12:06,643 --> 00:12:08,903 my -254 +261 00:12:08,903 --> 00:12:11,673 dream schools. So at first I was like, well maybe I'm just not -255 +262 00:12:11,673 --> 00:12:15,423 going to college. I have four rejections from other schools. -256 +263 00:12:15,663 --> 00:12:19,232 But then at the very end I was accepted, to Eastman. And -257 +264 00:12:19,232 --> 00:12:21,423 that was the last school I heard back from. And I was like, okay, -258 +265 00:12:21,423 --> 00:12:23,702 cool. I guess we're going. And we're going to my dream school. -259 +266 00:12:23,702 --> 00:12:24,633 So that worked out. -260 +267 00:12:26,368 --> 00:12:28,318 Dan: awesome. Oh, the oboe is an interesting choice. What, -261 +268 w- w- do you have any reason why, like, what made you like lean -262 +269 00:12:33,057 --> 00:12:35,427 towards the oboe, I know from, you know, I, I know it's very -263 +270 00:12:35,427 --> 00:12:37,587 hard to learn and all of that stuff. I was just curious about -264 +271 00:12:37,587 --> 00:12:37,768 that. -265 +272 00:12:38,538 --> 00:12:40,638 Jessica: yeah so I didn't actually choose it. -266 +273 00:12:41,177 --> 00:12:41,388 -Dan: Sure. +Dan: Sure. [crosstalk] -267 +274 00:12:42,347 --> 00:12:44,282 Jessica: I didn't choose it. Yeah. I was learning piano -268 +275 00:12:44,282 --> 00:12:46,217 in -269 +276 00:12:46,217 --> 00:12:48,134 elementary school, and then I tried to pick up trumpet. But -270 +277 00:12:48,134 --> 00:12:50,051 That -271 +278 00:12:50,143 --> 00:12:52,993 definitely was not the right fit for me. I couldn't really make -272 +279 00:12:52,993 --> 00:12:56,562 any type of sounds, but I wanted to be in band because all my -273 +280 00:12:56,562 --> 00:13:00,913 friends were in band and I loved music. so I asked the, band -274 +281 00:13:00,913 --> 00:13:03,102 director at the middle school and I told him, I said, Hey, I'm -275 +282 00:13:03,102 --> 00:13:06,263 really passionate. I want to learn something. his answer was, -276 +283 00:13:06,283 --> 00:13:10,182 you should learn the oboe. And I'm like, Okay. what is that? He -277 +284 00:13:10,182 --> 00:13:13,383 was like here. And so he got out and oboe and he got out of reed -278 +285 00:13:14,143 --> 00:13:16,355 he put it together for me and put it, he said, okay, this is. -279 +286 00:13:16,355 --> 00:13:18,567 You -280 +287 00:13:18,567 --> 00:13:20,112 know, blow and just how you make an embouchure. And I did that -281 +288 00:13:20,112 --> 00:13:21,657 and -282 +289 00:13:21,658 --> 00:13:23,998 it squeaked, he's like perfect. You should be our new oboe -283 +290 00:13:23,998 --> 00:13:28,158 player. I was like, Okay, cool. And I'm like 11 years old, so -284 +291 00:13:28,158 --> 00:13:30,242 I've just game for anything. And he probably totally planned -285 +292 00:13:30,242 --> 00:13:32,326 that. -286 +293 00:13:32,327 --> 00:13:35,878 Like, yes, we got another one because oboe's so rare in -287 +294 00:13:35,927 --> 00:13:41,057 schools, along with like basoon. So that's when he heard that I -288 +295 00:13:41,057 --> 00:13:43,427 was, I just wanted to join and he's like, cool. Let's just talk -289 +296 00:13:43,427 --> 00:13:47,408 her into playing this thing. And we're all taken care of, but I -290 +297 00:13:47,418 --> 00:13:49,998 guess I have to thank him for it because I ended up falling in -291 +298 00:13:49,998 --> 00:13:50,957 love with it. So. -292 +299 00:13:51,727 --> 00:13:52,867 Dan: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I imagine there was, there was -293 +300 00:13:52,867 --> 00:13:54,007 no -294 +301 00:13:54,008 --> 00:13:55,508 oboe player, you know, before he started. -295 +302 00:13:56,107 --> 00:13:57,832 Jessica: Yeah, there was actually just one, but then he -296 +303 00:13:57,832 --> 00:13:59,557 was like, -297 +304 00:13:59,557 --> 00:14:02,242 we really need one other one. And so it was easy to talk at 11 -298 +305 00:14:02,242 --> 00:14:04,927 year -299 +306 00:14:04,927 --> 00:14:07,148 old, because at that age, you're just like, I just want to do -300 +307 00:14:07,148 --> 00:14:09,908 anything and you're not going to like fight it there, so. -301 +308 00:14:10,113 --> 00:14:12,932 Bekah: My oldest is learning the trombone because someone gave us -302 +309 00:14:12,932 --> 00:14:13,773 a free trombone. -303 +310 00:14:14,337 --> 00:14:15,477 Jessica: see, there you go. Yeah, exactly. That's how, like -304 +311 00:14:15,477 --> 00:14:16,617 most -305 +312 00:14:16,618 --> 00:14:18,717 kids fall into it. They're like, I don't know. Just give me an -306 +313 00:14:18,717 --> 00:14:20,187 instrument. I'll figure it out. -307 +314 00:14:21,913 --> 00:14:24,567 Bekah: Yeah, that is awesome. -And so it's great to hear to +And so it's great to hear too -308 +315 00:14:24,567 --> 00:14:27,221 your -309 +316 00:14:27,312 --> 00:14:31,602 you've had this history of teaching in your family, and it -310 +317 00:14:31,602 --> 00:14:35,052 sounds like you also taught music, but you're also teaching -311 +318 00:14:35,052 --> 00:14:37,393 now through what you're doing. You know, you did the lunch and -312 +319 00:14:37,393 --> 00:14:39,523 learn for us and taught us all about writing, but also as -313 +320 00:14:39,523 --> 00:14:41,653 you're -314 +321 00:14:41,653 --> 00:14:43,977 writing, you're teaching. So, how much of that do you think -315 +322 00:14:43,977 --> 00:14:46,301 that, -316 +323 00:14:47,173 --> 00:14:51,557 you're able to lean on. What you've learned from your mom and -317 +324 00:14:51,557 --> 00:14:56,447 your grandmother, or is it something that you thought you -318 +325 00:14:56,447 --> 00:14:59,238 really had to work hard to acquire that skill? -319 +326 00:14:59,993 --> 00:15:01,320 Jessica: Yeah, I, I you really know when I was teaching -320 +327 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:02,647 beginners, there's -321 +328 00:15:02,647 --> 00:15:05,301 a -322 +329 00:15:05,302 --> 00:15:09,113 lot of patience required when you're teaching beginner -323 +330 00:15:09,113 --> 00:15:12,232 students, especially beginner oboist, because it's like a -324 +331 00:15:12,273 --> 00:15:15,748 really weird instrument and there's not a lot- Unnatural -325 +332 00:15:15,748 --> 00:15:18,807 things with it. And so it requires a lot of patience and -326 +333 00:15:18,807 --> 00:15:21,658 just saying, okay, let's just take it one step at a time. And -327 +334 00:15:21,658 --> 00:15:25,498 so I think that translates a lot into the articles I write. Now I -328 +335 00:15:25,498 --> 00:15:29,697 write a lot of beginner articles on HTML and CSS and JavaScript -329 +336 00:15:29,697 --> 00:15:34,018 and tutorials and all that fun stuff. And so I know what it's -330 +337 00:15:34,018 --> 00:15:35,812 like. First start out in programming. And I think a lot -331 +338 00:15:35,812 --> 00:15:37,606 of -332 +339 00:15:37,607 --> 00:15:39,707 writers just skip over stuff [chuckles] and they'll skip like -333 +340 00:15:39,707 --> 00:15:41,807 20 steps when -334 +341 00:15:41,807 --> 00:15:44,118 they're writing about something and they'll go, oh yeah, first -335 +342 00:15:44,118 --> 00:15:47,057 you do this. And then when you log in, just take care of this -336 +343 00:15:47,057 --> 00:15:49,008 and then go over here and I'm like, wait, wait, wait a minute. -337 +344 00:15:49,008 --> 00:15:52,638 Like, how is a beginner supposed to kind of fill in those gaps? -338 +345 00:15:52,638 --> 00:15:55,248 And so I really try to be conscious about explaining -339 +346 00:15:55,248 --> 00:15:57,362 things, not assuming anything, being patient there, I think -340 +347 00:15:57,362 --> 00:15:59,476 that -341 +348 00:15:59,477 --> 00:16:02,055 goes into my writing. Cause I just want to help people as -342 +349 00:16:02,055 --> 00:16:04,633 best -343 +350 00:16:04,633 --> 00:16:05,293 as I can. -344 +351 00:16:07,102 --> 00:16:12,077 Bekah: That's so important because the, it. It really helps -345 +352 00:16:12,077 --> 00:16:17,658 to create a more welcoming and inclusive space in tech to have. -346 +353 00:16:19,067 --> 00:16:21,572 Tutorials or guides or articles that don't make assumptions -347 +354 00:16:21,572 --> 00:16:24,077 about -348 +355 00:16:24,077 --> 00:16:25,239 the people who are reading them. Because I can't tell you how -349 +356 00:16:25,239 --> 00:16:26,401 many times -350 +357 00:16:26,402 --> 00:16:28,727 I -351 +358 00:16:28,727 --> 00:16:31,007 started reading something and got very frustrated because I -352 +359 00:16:31,007 --> 00:16:33,287 was -353 +360 00:16:33,288 --> 00:16:37,812 following the steps. But it wasn't working and I didn't know -354 +361 00:16:37,812 --> 00:16:41,863 what to do or what to look for. And that can be really hard to -355 +362 00:16:41,863 --> 00:16:45,582 navigate through, especially if you're self-taught or you don't -356 +363 00:16:45,582 --> 00:16:50,173 have a good support system. So I really appreciate hearing you -357 +364 00:16:50,173 --> 00:16:53,592 talk about making sure that that's part of your process. -358 +365 00:16:54,753 --> 00:16:58,038 Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's just like the person came to -359 +366 00:16:58,038 --> 00:17:01,727 learn. And so when you're just skipping steps or saying, oh, -360 +367 00:17:01,758 --> 00:17:03,032 what are the things too? That's a pet peeve is when people say, -361 +368 00:17:03,032 --> 00:17:04,306 oh, -362 +369 00:17:04,307 --> 00:17:05,417 it's so easy. You just do this. You can't say that. [Chuckles] -363 +370 00:17:05,417 --> 00:17:06,527 Like a lot -364 +371 00:17:06,527 --> 00:17:08,747 of -365 +372 00:17:08,748 --> 00:17:10,788 people do this when they're setting up, like gitHub for the -366 +373 00:17:10,788 --> 00:17:14,242 first time and they'll say, oh yeah, This up and you just run -367 +374 00:17:14,242 --> 00:17:16,403 these commands, just open up your, your. terminal. It's -368 +375 00:17:16,403 --> 00:17:19,252 totally fine. And, and there you go. And it's like, no, it's not -369 +376 00:17:19,252 --> 00:17:22,583 totally fine. This is brand new for a lot of people. So you've -370 +377 00:17:22,583 --> 00:17:25,643 got to walk through those steps and throw in some screenshots -371 +378 00:17:26,303 --> 00:17:27,997 make sure that people can follow along. Cause it might be easy -372 +379 00:17:27,997 --> 00:17:29,691 for -373 +380 00:17:29,692 --> 00:17:30,877 somebody that's been doing it for many, many years, but when -374 +381 00:17:30,877 --> 00:17:32,062 you're -375 -00:17:32,063 --> 00:17:34,613 +382 +00:17:32,063 --> 00:17:32,913 first learning it, you're going, -wait, where's my terminal. +wait, where's my terminal? 376 -376 +383 +00:17:32,913 --> 00:17:33,763 00:17:34,613 --> 00:17:36,307 -Where's my command prompt. How +Where's my command prompt? How + +384 +00:17:33,763 --> 00:17:34,613 do I type, do I type this in -377 +385 00:17:36,307 --> 00:17:38,001 first -378 +386 00:17:38,002 --> 00:17:40,313 and then do this? Or this is very confusing. So. -379 +387 00:17:40,833 --> 00:17:42,228 Bekah: Yeah, I'll never forget. [crosstalk] It's one of the -380 +388 00:17:42,228 --> 00:17:43,623 first times I -381 +389 00:17:43,623 --> 00:17:45,662 paired with somebody is somebody that I really like admired in -382 +390 00:17:45,662 --> 00:17:47,701 the -383 +391 00:17:47,702 --> 00:17:51,542 industry. And I was terrified because I didn't know. And at -384 +392 00:17:51,542 --> 00:17:56,012 that point I hadn't really been using. VS Code or, or -385 -00:17:56,012 --> 00:18:01,952 -anything like that. And so okay, -can you open up a text +393 +00:17:56,012 --> 00:17:58,982 +anything like that. And so they +said "okay, can you open up a -386 +394 +00:17:58,982 --> 00:18:01,952 +text + +395 00:18:01,952 --> 00:18:06,843 -editor? And I had no idea what +editor?" And I had no idea what that word meant. And so I opened -387 +396 00:18:06,843 --> 00:18:09,152 up Google docs and, they like, kind of went with it. And then -388 +397 00:18:09,152 --> 00:18:11,461 eventually -389 +398 00:18:11,462 --> 00:18:15,313 they were like, do you have something like VS Code or Atom. -390 +399 00:18:16,232 --> 00:18:19,390 oh, that's a text editor. like, Things like that, you know, I -391 +400 00:18:19,390 --> 00:18:22,548 didn't -392 +401 00:18:22,577 --> 00:18:22,718 know. -393 +402 00:18:22,718 --> 00:18:22,807 Jessica: Right. -394 +403 00:18:22,877 --> 00:18:27,528 Bekah: I hadn't seen it written before and I was using built-in, -395 +404 00:18:28,907 --> 00:18:30,782 things with the lessons that I was learning. And I remember -396 +405 00:18:30,782 --> 00:18:32,657 just -397 +406 00:18:32,657 --> 00:18:37,278 that sense of shame that didn't belong there. Right. I shouldn't -398 +407 00:18:37,278 --> 00:18:41,357 be ashamed in that moment, but when you feel like there are -399 +408 00:18:41,373 --> 00:18:45,633 assumptions like, oh, I should have known that. And it's not -400 +409 00:18:45,633 --> 00:18:49,623 true. So to have people breaking things down to avoid, that makes -401 +410 00:18:49,623 --> 00:18:52,472 it much easier for people to keep learning. -402 +411 00:18:53,673 --> 00:18:57,442 Jessica: Yeah, exactly. Cause I mean, people want to learn and, -403 +412 00:18:57,442 --> 00:19:00,363 and I think writing is just such an important skill. I think -404 +413 00:19:00,363 --> 00:19:02,537 everybody should write and work on writing. And, and I think -405 +414 00:19:02,537 --> 00:19:04,711 there's -406 +415 00:19:04,712 --> 00:19:07,353 just two levels. There's writing technical articles and then -407 +416 00:19:07,353 --> 00:19:10,113 there's also writing about your personal story. And so the cool -408 +417 00:19:10,113 --> 00:19:13,113 thing about this monthly challenge is I get to do both is -409 +418 00:19:13,113 --> 00:19:15,722 I get to focus on some technical stuff and then I get to talk -410 +419 00:19:15,722 --> 00:19:17,867 about, some yo weird stories I have some fun articles coming up -411 +420 00:19:17,867 --> 00:19:20,012 there -412 +421 00:19:20,012 --> 00:19:21,782 and just kind of sharing my story there. -413 +422 00:19:24,083 --> 00:19:26,940 Dan: Yeah, I think that's awesome. That balance of, of, -414 +423 00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:29,797 you -415 +424 00:19:29,798 --> 00:19:34,448 know, not making assumptions about your audience and, but -416 +425 00:19:34,448 --> 00:19:35,618 also still kind of getting your point across for the thing -417 +426 00:19:35,618 --> 00:19:36,788 you're -418 +427 00:19:36,788 --> 00:19:40,278 trying to learn is, is a, is a hard balance to strike and I -419 +428 00:19:40,278 --> 00:19:44,387 think you do it well. there, is there anything. If somebody was -420 +429 00:19:44,387 --> 00:19:46,727 starting a technical article, you know, I mean, w- what advice -421 +430 00:19:46,727 --> 00:19:49,067 would -422 +431 00:19:49,067 --> 00:19:50,897 you give? Like, you know, say the thing that I wanted to learn -423 +432 00:19:50,897 --> 00:19:52,727 or -424 +433 00:19:52,728 --> 00:19:56,657 that I wanted to, you know, -teach, had required to GitHub, +teach, had required GitHub, -425 +434 00:19:56,657 --> 00:19:59,117 you know, required you to check out a repository and all of that -426 +435 00:19:59,117 --> 00:20:03,887 stuff. you say, like, would you suggest putting all that stuff -427 +436 00:20:03,887 --> 00:20:09,093 step-by-step in or linking to. Articles about, you know, about -428 +437 00:20:09,093 --> 00:20:10,982 how to do that and that kind of thing. Like what, what kind of -429 +438 00:20:10,982 --> 00:20:13,202 approach, you know, generally would you would you suggest? -430 +439 00:20:13,538 --> 00:20:17,438 Jessica: Yeah. So I think it's fine if there's. if you want -431 +440 00:20:17,438 --> 00:20:20,327 to Link an article, or if you want to have a right at the very -432 +441 00:20:20,327 --> 00:20:23,778 top of your articles, just say, prerequisites must be familiar -433 +442 00:20:23,778 --> 00:20:27,768 -with and GitHub. I mean, I just -wrote an article about, +with Git and GitHub. I mean, I +just wrote an article about, -434 +443 00:20:27,798 --> 00:20:31,067 how to work with Node and NodeMailer for emails. And so I -435 +444 00:20:31,067 --> 00:20:33,857 had a prerequisite say, okay, I'm not going to cover basic -436 +445 00:20:33,857 --> 00:20:37,688 JavaScript. So it's important. That you understand some of the -437 +446 00:20:37,688 --> 00:20:40,538 basic concepts and the basics behind nodes. So we can dive -438 +447 00:20:40,538 --> 00:20:42,623 straight into this. And there was one section where there's a -439 +448 00:20:42,623 --> 00:20:44,708 different -440 +449 00:20:44,708 --> 00:20:48,847 setup with how to do Google with NodeMailer and set up all the, -441 +450 00:20:49,688 --> 00:20:52,448 off the authentication there. And so I did link to another -442 +451 00:20:52,448 --> 00:20:54,938 FreeCodeCamp article and say, okay, here's a detailed -443 +452 00:20:54,968 --> 00:20:57,518 step-by-step process. If you're -going to use google with +going to use Google with -444 +453 00:20:57,518 --> 00:21:00,428 NodeMailer, otherwise you could walk through the steps that I'm -445 +454 00:21:00,428 --> 00:21:02,768 going to show you here. So I think that's completely fine. -446 +455 00:21:03,067 --> 00:21:06,893 There were, if you feel like you could write through. All of -447 +456 00:21:06,893 --> 00:21:09,952 those steps in the article, I think either approach works -448 +457 00:21:09,952 --> 00:21:12,563 there. But I, I think it's healthy to have like a -449 +458 00:21:12,563 --> 00:21:16,222 prerequisites if necessary, just to let everybody know, Hey, if -450 +459 00:21:16,252 --> 00:21:19,192 you don't have these prerequisites, that is going to -451 +460 00:21:19,192 --> 00:21:22,432 be kind of hard to follow, especially for some of the -452 +461 00:21:22,432 --> 00:21:25,853 tutorials, because I see a lot of people have FreeCodeCamp, go -453 +462 00:21:25,853 --> 00:21:29,482 through a lot of our Python tutorials, which assume you have -454 +463 00:21:29,482 --> 00:21:31,434 some basic knowledge, but they're not acknowledging that -455 +464 00:21:31,434 --> 00:21:33,386 you have, -456 +465 00:21:33,478 --> 00:21:36,807 that basic knowledge. And so they'll come to the forum and -457 +466 00:21:36,807 --> 00:21:39,057 they'll go, how do I do this? Or why does it say I have an -458 +467 00:21:39,057 --> 00:21:41,518 indentation error? And so we'll tell them, like, you're doing -459 +468 00:21:41,518 --> 00:21:42,613 crazy things with your indentation. You can't do that -460 +469 00:21:42,613 --> 00:21:43,708 in -461 +470 00:21:43,708 --> 00:21:46,948 Python, but they won't know that because they just started coding -462 +471 00:21:46,978 --> 00:21:50,278 Python like two days ago. And they're trying to build like a -463 +472 00:21:50,278 --> 00:21:54,143 Discord bot. And so just a properly communicating. Like, -464 +473 00:21:54,143 --> 00:21:58,613 this is not necessarily a beginner or if it is like, some -465 +474 00:21:58,613 --> 00:22:00,098 walkthrough steps that you can go through. Here's a great -466 +475 00:22:00,098 --> 00:22:01,583 article -467 +476 00:22:01,583 --> 00:22:04,853 that lays it out. so I, I think that's completely fine there. -468 +477 00:22:04,992 --> 00:22:08,413 Dan: Ah, I love that, that, prerequisites, you know, is, I -469 +478 00:22:08,413 --> 00:22:09,763 think that's a great, a great way to set expectations for the, -470 +479 00:22:09,763 --> 00:22:11,113 you -471 +480 00:22:11,113 --> 00:22:12,388 know, for the article. Right. And then you don't get down -472 +481 00:22:12,388 --> 00:22:13,663 three -473 +482 00:22:13,663 --> 00:22:15,002 paragraphs in and become totally lost Assuming you read -474 +483 00:22:15,002 --> 00:22:16,341 prerequisites, you -475 +484 00:22:16,342 --> 00:22:19,021 know? -476 +485 00:22:19,048 --> 00:22:22,288 Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I try to make it obvious, you know? a -477 +486 00:22:22,288 --> 00:22:23,488 heading, like here you go. -478 +487 00:22:23,823 --> 00:22:24,262 Dan: Right, right. -479 +488 00:22:25,198 --> 00:22:26,682 Jessica: So if someone misses it, it's like, okay, well, I did -480 +489 00:22:26,682 --> 00:22:28,166 try -481 +490 00:22:28,167 --> 00:22:28,557 -to warn you. +to warn you. [chuckles] -482 +491 00:22:28,962 --> 00:22:31,373 Dan: Yeah, exactly. I think that's great advice. Yeah. -483 +492 00:22:33,587 --> 00:22:37,097 Bekah: Yeah, I think too, it's almost a really good convention -484 +493 00:22:37,127 --> 00:22:39,887 to build into something so I could see, Like software -485 +494 00:22:39,887 --> 00:22:42,647 that -486 +495 00:22:42,647 --> 00:22:47,928 hosts tech blogging, like, tech blogging platforms. be -487 -00:22:47,928 --> 00:22:50,433 +496 +00:22:47,928 --> 00:22:49,180 really nice if that was built -in. what are the prerequisites? +in. so what are the -488 +497 +00:22:49,180 --> 00:22:50,432 +prerequisites? + +498 00:22:50,433 --> 00:22:52,938 And -489 +499 00:22:52,938 --> 00:22:56,508 then you can click the thing or you can add the thing then that -490 +500 00:22:56,508 --> 00:22:59,327 way it already, everybody knows where they should look for Okay. -491 +501 00:22:59,327 --> 00:23:02,146 This -492 +502 00:23:02,147 --> 00:23:05,238 is what I need to know. I don't know those things. And it also -493 +503 00:23:05,238 --> 00:23:07,562 puts it in the writer's mind that it makes it obvious to them -494 +504 00:23:07,562 --> 00:23:09,886 to -495 +505 00:23:09,887 --> 00:23:15,657 think about. It makes it a deliberate decision to recognize -496 +506 00:23:15,657 --> 00:23:18,162 who their audience is and what they should already know coming -497 +507 00:23:18,162 --> 00:23:20,667 into -498 +508 00:23:20,667 --> 00:23:24,178 this. So I think like from both perspectives, it would be really -499 +509 00:23:24,178 --> 00:23:29,127 useful in helping us to have these conversations about, what -500 +510 00:23:29,127 --> 00:23:32,577 content is usable, usable for different audiences. -501 +511 00:23:33,762 --> 00:23:35,457 Jessica: Right. And then there's some tutorials where people -502 +512 00:23:35,457 --> 00:23:37,152 label -503 +513 00:23:37,153 --> 00:23:39,613 it beginner, but it's clearly isn't beginner. I'm like, I -504 +514 00:23:39,613 --> 00:23:42,073 don't -505 +515 00:23:42,073 --> 00:23:44,188 think beginners or I wasn't doing that. I was first starting -506 +516 00:23:44,188 --> 00:23:46,303 out. -507 +517 00:23:46,932 --> 00:23:50,952 And so sometimes people really mislabel, which hurts beginners, -508 +518 00:23:50,982 --> 00:23:53,143 and then they're going through it. They're like, well, how do I -509 +519 00:23:53,143 --> 00:23:55,553 do this? I was like, well, maybe we start off with something a -510 +520 00:23:55,553 --> 00:23:58,330 -little bit easier if that's +little bit easier if, if that's okay. So yeah, so sometimes -511 +521 00:23:58,330 --> 00:24:01,107 people, I -512 +522 00:24:01,147 --> 00:24:02,887 think a lot of it has to do with, they forget what it's like -513 +523 00:24:02,887 --> 00:24:04,627 to be -514 +524 00:24:04,627 --> 00:24:05,198 a beginner -515 +525 00:24:05,198 --> 00:24:05,288 Dan: Yes. -516 +526 00:24:05,288 --> 00:24:07,597 Jessica: or they rewrite history and they're like, oh, I was -517 +527 00:24:07,597 --> 00:24:09,262 totally doing this when I was first learning in six months or -518 +528 00:24:09,262 --> 00:24:10,927 a -519 +529 00:24:10,928 --> 00:24:15,008 year. And it's like, no, you probably weren't. You probably -520 +530 00:24:15,008 --> 00:24:18,248 just forgot you weren't doing those types of things. Cause I -521 +531 00:24:18,248 --> 00:24:19,940 think the first few months. Going through a FreeCodeCamp and -522 +532 00:24:19,940 --> 00:24:21,632 going -523 +533 00:24:21,643 --> 00:24:25,323 through the certifications, but I didn't understand how HTML CSS -524 +534 00:24:25,323 --> 00:24:27,782 and JavaScript work together. I was just like, okay, there's -525 +535 00:24:27,782 --> 00:24:30,992 these things like arrays and objects, but how do I make a -526 +536 00:24:30,992 --> 00:24:33,452 webpage? So I just didn't understand how everything -527 +537 00:24:33,452 --> 00:24:38,643 connected. and so beginners, it's, it's a lot of information -528 +538 00:24:38,643 --> 00:24:40,457 and it's just like fire hose. And so you just have to make -529 +539 00:24:40,457 --> 00:24:42,271 sure -530 +540 00:24:42,272 --> 00:24:45,242 that you're not making assumptions going, oh yeah, you -531 +541 00:24:45,242 --> 00:24:48,212 could totally do this with your beginner. And it's like, no. you -532 +542 00:24:48,212 --> 00:24:51,528 gotta break that down there. That's definitely not a beginner -533 +543 00:24:51,528 --> 00:24:54,468 tutorial. Let's label it intermediate at best there. -534 +544 00:24:55,512 --> 00:24:57,142 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, to your point. People -535 +545 00:24:57,142 --> 00:24:58,772 could -536 +546 00:24:58,772 --> 00:25:00,972 forget, you know, the, what it feels like to be a beginner -537 +547 00:25:00,972 --> 00:25:03,172 at -538 +548 00:25:03,173 --> 00:25:04,648 it from experience. It's very easy to forget that, you know, -539 +549 00:25:04,648 --> 00:25:06,123 it -540 +550 00:25:06,123 --> 00:25:07,753 -takes effort to that in +takes effort to remember that in practice. I'm sure. You know, it -541 +551 00:25:07,753 --> 00:25:09,383 becomes, -542 +552 00:25:09,823 --> 00:25:11,392 easier. but, yeah, it's, it's hard to, it's hard -543 +553 00:25:11,392 --> 00:25:12,961 sometimes to -544 +554 00:25:12,962 --> 00:25:14,752 put yourself back in. know, once you're a few years into a -545 +555 00:25:14,752 --> 00:25:16,542 career, -546 +556 00:25:16,903 --> 00:25:20,863 to put yourself back into spot, you know, the like total -547 +557 00:25:20,863 --> 00:25:21,792 utter confusion, -548 +558 00:25:22,188 --> 00:25:23,238 Jessica: Right. Exactly. -549 +559 00:25:23,532 --> 00:25:24,792 Dan: like, I, I can't remember it, you know, if I, if I make -550 +560 00:25:24,792 --> 00:25:26,052 my, -551 +561 00:25:26,173 --> 00:25:29,053 like, if I think about it, I can remember it, you know? And I was -552 +562 00:25:29,053 --> 00:25:29,922 at the same boat. I'm like, well, I'm writing, you see him -553 +563 00:25:29,922 --> 00:25:30,791 out -554 +564 00:25:30,792 --> 00:25:32,247 here. I'm like, and I was writing like PHP at the same -555 +565 00:25:32,247 --> 00:25:33,702 time. Like I -556 +566 00:25:33,702 --> 00:25:34,536 was like learning it all at the same time and tottally didn't -557 +567 00:25:34,536 --> 00:25:35,370 understand how -558 +568 00:25:35,370 --> 00:25:37,038 they -559 +569 00:25:37,038 --> 00:25:38,253 all connected. And, you know, somebody sent me a CSS file. -560 +570 00:25:38,253 --> 00:25:39,468 He's -561 +571 00:25:39,468 --> 00:25:42,798 like instead of using whatever use this. And I'm like, well, -562 +572 00:25:42,807 --> 00:25:44,928 here's a bunch of black magic. I'm just going to drop into my -563 +573 00:25:44,928 --> 00:25:46,622 like... into my program. apparently it works, you know, -564 +574 00:25:46,622 --> 00:25:48,316 it -565 +575 00:25:48,798 --> 00:25:53,147 it's, yeah, it can be a, a hard thing to, to remember, but -566 +576 00:25:53,208 --> 00:25:54,498 an important thing for sure. -567 +577 00:25:55,863 --> 00:25:57,272 Bekah: So I want to back up a little bit because I feel like -568 +578 00:25:57,272 --> 00:25:58,681 we -569 +579 00:25:58,682 --> 00:26:01,442 miss this very impart important part of the story of. You -570 +580 00:26:01,442 --> 00:26:04,202 started -571 +581 00:26:04,202 --> 00:26:07,482 learning to code and suddenly you're writing for FreeCodeCamp. -572 +582 00:26:07,502 --> 00:26:10,113 Like that's not something little right. -573 +583 00:26:10,163 --> 00:26:11,573 Jessica: totally glossed over that. Yeah. -574 +584 00:26:12,452 --> 00:26:13,412 Bekah: That's a major accomplishment. So I don't want -575 +585 00:26:13,412 --> 00:26:14,372 to lose that. so tell -576 +586 00:26:14,372 --> 00:26:16,292 us, -577 +587 00:26:16,482 --> 00:26:17,853 how did that happen? -578 +588 00:26:18,323 --> 00:26:20,182 Jessica: Yes, it's a crazy story, but that's kind of my -579 +589 00:26:20,182 --> 00:26:22,041 life. But -580 +590 00:26:22,042 --> 00:26:25,942 what ends up happening is around October of 2020, or actually -581 +591 00:26:25,942 --> 00:26:29,663 September of 2020, I decided to join the FreeCodeCamp forum -582 +592 00:26:29,663 --> 00:26:31,057 because like a lot of self-taught developers, you kind -583 +593 00:26:31,057 --> 00:26:32,451 of bounce -584 +594 00:26:32,452 --> 00:26:34,312 around different. Resources, and then you try to find one -585 +595 00:26:34,312 --> 00:26:36,172 that -586 +596 00:26:36,173 --> 00:26:38,393 works. And so I did a few different things before -587 +597 00:26:38,393 --> 00:26:41,482 FreeCodeCamp, but then I landed on FreeCodeCamp. I was like, I -588 +598 00:26:41,482 --> 00:26:43,147 kinda like this. Okay, cool. So I started going through, the -589 +599 00:26:43,147 --> 00:26:44,812 first -590 +600 00:26:44,813 --> 00:26:48,232 certification, which is on HTML and CSS and responsive design. -591 +601 00:26:48,728 --> 00:26:51,847 And so I decided to just sign up for the forum. I was like, maybe -592 +602 00:26:51,847 --> 00:26:54,407 I could connect with some beginners that be kind of cool. -593 +603 00:26:54,518 --> 00:26:56,153 And some other developers just talk with them. And so I -594 +604 00:26:56,153 --> 00:26:57,788 originally, -595 +605 00:26:57,788 --> 00:26:59,917 I just thought I would just kind of hang in the background and -596 +606 00:26:59,917 --> 00:27:03,488 maybe jump in once in a while, but I ended up jumping in a lot -597 +607 00:27:03,488 --> 00:27:06,938 more and answering questions or just giving my perspective and -598 +608 00:27:06,938 --> 00:27:09,817 sharing my story. And so after about a month of being on the -599 +609 00:27:09,817 --> 00:27:13,667 forum, Quincy reached out to me and he was like, Hey, you're -600 +610 00:27:13,667 --> 00:27:17,448 super active and what's your story? Let's talk. And so we set -601 +611 00:27:17,448 --> 00:27:20,718 up a Google Meet we talked for about like 45 minutes, and we -602 +612 00:27:20,718 --> 00:27:23,897 just talked about his background coming from a teacher into tech -603 +613 00:27:23,897 --> 00:27:27,617 and then my background with music. And he decided, he said, -604 +614 00:27:27,708 --> 00:27:32,057 well, you should join our forum moderator team and start writing -605 +615 00:27:32,057 --> 00:27:35,988 for FreeCodeCamp as a volunteer. Okay. I don't know what to write -606 +616 00:27:35,988 --> 00:27:37,998 about. Cause I've just been doing this for like two seconds -607 +617 00:27:37,998 --> 00:27:40,008 and he -608 +618 00:27:40,008 --> 00:27:43,307 said, just share your story. And I'm like, oh, I could do that. -609 +619 00:27:43,307 --> 00:27:46,607 That sounds fun. So I decided to just write a few posts about my -610 +620 00:27:46,607 --> 00:27:49,607 story so I wrote one, my first one was about what I enjoyed -611 +621 00:27:49,607 --> 00:27:51,332 about being a beginner. And I wrote one article about the -612 +622 00:27:51,332 --> 00:27:53,057 parallels -613 +623 00:27:53,057 --> 00:27:58,008 between music and. learning code and programming. -614 +624 00:27:58,188 --> 00:28:02,327 And then that was noticed by Gatsby and they were like, Hey, -615 +625 00:28:02,327 --> 00:28:03,932 we have this blog and do you want to write it? We'll pay you. -616 +626 00:28:03,932 --> 00:28:05,537 I was -617 +627 00:28:05,538 --> 00:28:08,597 like, yeah, that sounds fun to me. So that I wrote about -618 +628 00:28:08,597 --> 00:28:10,157 imposter syndrome and how I dealt with it as a musician and -619 +629 00:28:10,157 --> 00:28:11,717 how. -620 +630 00:28:12,188 --> 00:28:14,798 Yeah, it goes in with programming. so now all of a -621 +631 00:28:14,798 --> 00:28:19,057 sudden I start writing articles and just sharing my story. And -622 +632 00:28:19,057 --> 00:28:20,452 after a few months of doing that, Quincy comes back to me -623 +633 00:28:20,452 --> 00:28:21,847 and says, -624 +634 00:28:22,087 --> 00:28:24,817 well, I've got another proposition for you. do you -625 +635 00:28:24,817 --> 00:28:27,938 want to start writing technical articles and we'll pay you per -626 +636 00:28:27,938 --> 00:28:32,538 article? And I was like, ah, I don't think I could do that. So -627 +637 00:28:32,538 --> 00:28:36,048 originally I actually said no very politely, because I just -628 +638 00:28:36,048 --> 00:28:37,038 didn't think I could do that. Cause at this point this was -629 +639 00:28:37,038 --> 00:28:38,028 like -630 +640 00:28:38,028 --> 00:28:42,468 six months in and we're at the same time I had started my first -631 +641 00:28:42,468 --> 00:28:45,258 developer job, but I was still kind of overwhelmed with that. I -632 +642 00:28:45,258 --> 00:28:46,577 was working part-time at this small company. And so I was -633 +643 00:28:46,577 --> 00:28:47,896 like, -634 +644 00:28:47,968 --> 00:28:51,637 I don't know if I'm qualified to write technical articles, like -635 +645 00:28:51,647 --> 00:28:55,488 who is going to believe me. I, I don't know what I'm doing. And. -636 +646 00:28:55,978 --> 00:28:58,768 He said, well, I, I think you can, I think you really good at -637 +647 00:28:58,768 --> 00:29:03,327 just breaking down concepts and could pick articles you feel -638 +648 00:29:03,327 --> 00:29:06,958 comfortable with. And so he had this whole Trello board, -639 +649 00:29:06,988 --> 00:29:10,498 topics and I could just choose which ones I felt comfortable -640 +650 00:29:10,498 --> 00:29:13,377 with. So I picked all the HTML, CSS, ones, I think maybe a -641 +651 00:29:13,377 --> 00:29:17,127 couple of JavaScript ones, and just started from there. And -642 +652 00:29:17,127 --> 00:29:20,488 so a few months of just writing and getting paid per article on -643 +653 00:29:20,488 --> 00:29:26,137 my own schedule and, around July. It was interesting -644 +654 00:29:26,167 --> 00:29:29,887 because I was deciding if I actually wanted this to be a -645 +655 00:29:29,887 --> 00:29:33,728 full-time career or not. And, an opportunity came up with -646 +656 00:29:33,728 --> 00:29:38,428 Disney for a music job, but I ended up turning that down to -647 +657 00:29:38,428 --> 00:29:39,458 pursue software -648 +658 00:29:40,278 --> 00:29:40,617 Dan: Wow. -649 +659 00:29:40,907 --> 00:29:44,347 Jessica: Yeah. Which is a whole other story in of itself, which -650 +660 00:29:44,347 --> 00:29:46,077 we could cover. But, but yeah, so then I was like, okay, -651 +661 00:29:46,077 --> 00:29:47,807 I -652 +662 00:29:47,807 --> 00:29:51,518 guess we're going into software now I turned down that job and -653 +663 00:29:51,518 --> 00:29:54,087 then Quincy reached out again, said, Hey, I've got a job for -654 +664 00:29:54,087 --> 00:29:58,337 you. I want you to join my team -officially you know, be, +officially you know, and be, -655 +665 00:29:58,397 --> 00:29:59,807 writing all the time. I was like, okay, cool. So it's funny -656 +666 00:29:59,807 --> 00:30:01,217 how -657 +667 00:30:01,218 --> 00:30:03,333 life works out, where one door closes and then another one -658 +668 00:30:03,333 --> 00:30:05,448 opens -659 +669 00:30:05,448 --> 00:30:09,988 around. I started officially in August of 2021. Writing -660 +670 00:30:09,988 --> 00:30:13,057 articles and being part of the author team. And so there's a -661 +671 00:30:13,057 --> 00:30:16,077 total of four of us. And we all come from very diverse -662 +672 00:30:16,077 --> 00:30:17,862 backgrounds and we're located all around the world. but he'll -663 +673 00:30:17,862 --> 00:30:19,647 now -664 +674 00:30:19,647 --> 00:30:22,647 assign us articles. And so he'll send us like 10 or 12 different -665 +675 00:30:22,647 --> 00:30:25,252 headlines at a time. And then. we just write. basically we -666 +676 00:30:25,252 --> 00:30:27,857 research -667 +677 00:30:27,857 --> 00:30:31,127 and write. So right now I have a whole bunch of SQL -668 +678 00:30:31,127 --> 00:30:32,912 articles and I've been learning about that and just writing -669 +679 00:30:32,912 --> 00:30:34,697 about -670 +680 00:30:35,387 --> 00:30:38,837 SQL basically as Well, as a few more JavaScript articles that I -671 +681 00:30:38,837 --> 00:30:41,798 have leftover that I need to write about. But Yeah. that's, -672 +682 00:30:41,798 --> 00:30:45,468 that's kinda my story. How I, my weird story, how I wound up at -673 +683 00:30:45,468 --> 00:30:46,288 FreeCodeCamp. -674 -00:30:46,303 --> 00:30:48,692 -Dan: Oh, Thats great. Yeah. And -you actually answered it at the +684 +00:30:46,303 --> 00:30:47,497 +Dan: Oh, [crosstalk] Thats +great. Yeah. And you actually -675 +685 +00:30:47,497 --> 00:30:48,691 +answered it at the + +686 00:30:48,692 --> 00:30:51,032 end of a question I was going to ask was, you know, how to -676 +687 00:30:51,032 --> 00:30:54,393 balance, like, if you're, if writing is, you know, your main -677 +688 00:30:54,452 --> 00:30:56,913 job, how to balance actually learning, you know, whilst -678 +689 00:30:56,913 --> 00:30:59,462 writing, but it sounds like kind of built into the job, right? -679 +690 00:30:59,788 --> 00:31:00,387 -Jessica: Exactly. +Jessica: Exactly. yeah. -680 +691 00:31:00,522 --> 00:31:01,262 Dan: very cool. -681 +692 00:31:01,357 --> 00:31:03,557 Jessica: Cause there's times where I'll get assigned articles -682 +693 00:31:03,557 --> 00:31:03,617 Dan: Yeah. -683 +694 00:31:03,617 --> 00:31:05,548 Jessica: and I'm like, okay, I feel comfortable about this. And -684 +695 00:31:05,548 --> 00:31:08,488 then there's times where I'm like, I've never really worked -685 +696 00:31:08,488 --> 00:31:13,107 with this. So I guess I'll have to learn it because I have to -686 +697 00:31:13,107 --> 00:31:16,048 write about it and convince people that I know what I'm -687 +698 00:31:16,048 --> 00:31:17,562 talking about there, but it's really great because I get to, -688 +699 00:31:17,562 --> 00:31:19,076 we -689 +700 00:31:19,077 --> 00:31:21,215 all have that, where we are. One of the authors was asked to -690 +701 00:31:21,215 --> 00:31:23,353 learn -691 +702 00:31:23,593 --> 00:31:26,502 some PHP and writes a PHP articles. Another one was asked -692 +703 00:31:26,502 --> 00:31:30,492 to write C, C++, and learn that. we're all down for just -693 +704 00:31:30,492 --> 00:31:32,427 learning, whatever we need to learn and get the job done -694 +705 00:31:32,427 --> 00:31:34,362 there. -695 +706 00:31:35,962 --> 00:31:36,893 -Bekah: I love that much. +Bekah: I love that so much. -696 +707 00:31:37,103 --> 00:31:37,333 Dan: That's Awesome -697 +708 00:31:38,018 --> 00:31:38,678 Bekah: Sorry, go ahead. -698 +709 00:31:39,538 --> 00:31:41,847 Dan: That was my whole thing. That was awesome. That sounds -699 +710 00:31:41,847 --> 00:31:42,208 awesome. -700 +711 00:31:43,538 --> 00:31:45,293 Bekah: I just kind of want to sum up your whole timeline here -701 +712 00:31:45,293 --> 00:31:47,048 of -702 +713 00:31:47,048 --> 00:31:48,995 everything that's happened before. I think that for a lot -703 +714 00:31:48,995 --> 00:31:50,942 of -704 +715 00:31:50,942 --> 00:31:54,962 people that we talked to, especially people who are trying -705 +716 00:31:54,962 --> 00:31:57,617 to transition into a tech career, it's where to get start. -706 +717 00:31:57,617 --> 00:32:00,272 And -707 +718 00:32:00,303 --> 00:32:02,373 first of all, like get comfortable with being -708 +719 00:32:02,373 --> 00:32:07,952 uncomfortable, but also. You finding that spot, you had this -709 +720 00:32:07,952 --> 00:32:11,173 opportunity because you participated on FreeCodeCamp -710 +721 00:32:11,192 --> 00:32:14,313 because they reached out to you because they saw like, look, -711 +722 00:32:14,343 --> 00:32:16,713 Jessica is awesome and she's here and she's contributing. -712 +723 00:32:16,713 --> 00:32:19,083 that just -713 +724 00:32:19,083 --> 00:32:21,407 progressively led to more and bigger and better things. And -714 +725 00:32:21,407 --> 00:32:23,731 so, -715 -00:32:23,883 --> 00:32:26,223 +726 +00:32:23,883 --> 00:32:25,053 you know, start with telling -your story and, writing those +your story and, and, writing -716 +727 +00:32:25,053 --> 00:32:26,223 +those + +728 00:32:26,223 --> 00:32:28,563 words -717 +729 00:32:28,563 --> 00:32:31,792 and this. You know, that's largely been my blogging -718 +730 00:32:31,792 --> 00:32:36,442 experience. I rarely write very technical things because just -719 +731 00:32:36,442 --> 00:32:41,093 want to get the words out on paper, or it's not on paper, but -720 +732 00:32:41,333 --> 00:32:46,063 put, put it out there into the world and that's a good place to -721 +733 00:32:46,182 --> 00:32:46,603 start. -722 +734 00:32:47,222 --> 00:32:50,012 Jessica: Yeah. I mean, there's, everybody has a story and -723 +735 00:32:50,012 --> 00:32:53,192 everybody has something to talk about and share. And so just, -724 +736 00:32:53,192 --> 00:32:56,163 just share with people and you'd be surprised who reaches out. I -725 +737 00:32:56,163 --> 00:32:57,783 mean, that's how I got my first developer job is I wasn't -726 +738 00:32:57,783 --> 00:32:59,403 looking -727 +739 00:32:59,403 --> 00:33:02,282 for a job. I didn't think I was anywhere close to being ready, -728 +740 00:33:02,492 --> 00:33:04,712 but this guy found me on the forum. He's like, Hey, I'm -729 +741 00:33:04,712 --> 00:33:07,798 looking for a junior. Yeah. A junior in what? -730 +742 00:33:09,208 --> 00:33:12,597 Jessica: you want me to write code for you? And so he's like, -731 +743 00:33:12,597 --> 00:33:16,738 yeah. And, I still work with him to this day and it's been an -732 +744 00:33:16,738 --> 00:33:20,367 incredible learning experience, but that came out of just being -733 +745 00:33:20,367 --> 00:33:23,548 active on the forum and just, know, writing and talking about -734 +746 00:33:23,548 --> 00:33:24,298 my story there. -735 +747 00:33:24,729 --> 00:33:27,489 Bekah: Sorry. I was like, my brain is split in two different -736 +748 00:33:27,489 --> 00:33:29,693 directions of where to go here. I'm a, Dan is you want to -737 +749 00:33:29,693 --> 00:33:31,897 add -738 +750 00:33:31,898 --> 00:33:34,298 something before I take us off on a tangent? -739 +751 00:33:34,743 --> 00:33:37,023 Dan: Nope. I would say pick the left one. -740 +752 00:33:37,513 --> 00:33:41,473 Bekah: The left one. Okay. My left one was, thinking about -741 +753 00:33:41,473 --> 00:33:45,973 your, and literally in my mind, it was, it was on the left. your -742 +754 00:33:45,973 --> 00:33:47,398 career goals. I don't know if you have career goals, but does, -743 +755 00:33:47,398 --> 00:33:48,823 is -744 +756 00:33:48,824 --> 00:33:50,309 writing something that you want to continue to do? Do you want -745 +757 00:33:50,309 --> 00:33:51,794 to -746 +758 00:33:51,794 --> 00:33:57,344 pursue, the writing aspect of coding or, or find yourself -747 +759 00:33:57,344 --> 00:33:59,383 somewhere in the middle or just see this as part of a tangent of -748 +760 00:33:59,383 --> 00:34:01,422 your -749 +761 00:34:01,493 --> 00:34:01,953 journey? -750 +762 00:34:02,538 --> 00:34:06,949 Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I would like to have at one point a, a -751 +763 00:34:06,949 --> 00:34:10,128 traditional, like full-time developer job, but I definitely -752 +764 00:34:10,128 --> 00:34:11,478 still want to keep writing. And so if there's any way I can -753 +765 00:34:11,478 --> 00:34:12,828 still -754 +766 00:34:12,829 --> 00:34:16,369 be involved, especially with FreeCodeCamp, and still write -755 +767 00:34:16,369 --> 00:34:18,093 articles for them in some sort of capacity. Cause I just, I, I -756 +768 00:34:18,093 --> 00:34:19,817 love -757 +769 00:34:19,818 --> 00:34:23,031 to write it. I love. Teach people and help out wherever I -758 +770 00:34:23,031 --> 00:34:26,244 can. but -759 +771 00:34:26,244 --> 00:34:27,758 they think the bigger career goal too, is I have all these -760 +772 00:34:27,758 --> 00:34:29,272 ideas -761 +773 00:34:29,273 --> 00:34:31,658 for music related, tech that I want to build. And some of -762 +774 00:34:31,658 --> 00:34:34,043 them -763 +775 00:34:34,043 --> 00:34:35,928 are crazy ideas. And I mean, I guess all my ideas are crazy, -764 +776 00:34:35,928 --> 00:34:37,813 but -765 +777 00:34:38,054 --> 00:34:39,083 -Bekah: are my favorite. +Bekah: those are my favorite. -766 +778 00:34:39,153 --> 00:34:40,453 Jessica: I guess That's the entrepreneurship in me where -767 +779 00:34:40,453 --> 00:34:41,753 it's -768 +780 00:34:41,753 --> 00:34:43,378 like, oh, my ideas are insane, but I just don't want to let -769 +781 00:34:43,378 --> 00:34:45,003 them -770 +782 00:34:45,003 --> 00:34:45,443 go. -771 +783 00:34:45,503 --> 00:34:45,824 Dan: Those are -772 +784 00:34:45,824 --> 00:34:47,508 Jessica: the best ones And so. Exactly. So, yeah, so that's -773 +785 00:34:47,508 --> 00:34:49,192 like -774 +786 00:34:49,193 --> 00:34:52,943 the long-term goal is to start slowly tackling some of these -775 +787 00:34:52,943 --> 00:34:57,623 ideas and just kind of go from there and work a regular -776 +788 00:34:57,623 --> 00:34:59,498 developer job, but then also keep writing and have fun with -777 +789 00:34:59,498 --> 00:35:01,373 it. -778 -00:35:02,753 --> 00:35:07,463 +790 +00:35:02,753 --> 00:35:05,108 Bekah: Yeah, that gives me an -idea for a monthly challenge, I +idea for a monthly challenge, -779 +791 +00:35:05,108 --> 00:35:07,463 +because I + +792 00:35:07,463 --> 00:35:09,728 think we have a big energy channel in Slack. And a lot of -780 +793 00:35:09,728 --> 00:35:11,993 it -781 +794 00:35:11,994 --> 00:35:19,494 is just GIF's, to bring us big energy. But I really think -782 +795 00:35:19,494 --> 00:35:22,434 that so many of us have these big ideas that we think are -783 +796 00:35:22,434 --> 00:35:24,038 unattainable, or this is too big, or this is too out there. -784 +797 00:35:24,038 --> 00:35:25,642 Right. -785 -00:35:25,884 --> 00:35:31,494 +798 +00:35:25,884 --> 00:35:28,689 Or there's just too many of them -like on one. if there was a big +to like focus on one. if there -786 +799 +00:35:28,689 --> 00:35:31,494 +was a big + +800 00:35:31,494 --> 00:35:34,943 idea month, right? Like we all write down all of our big ideas -787 +801 00:35:34,943 --> 00:35:37,148 that we want to share. And work together to kind of give -788 +802 00:35:37,148 --> 00:35:39,353 feedback -789 +803 00:35:39,353 --> 00:35:40,868 on those big ideas and figure out like where to focus or how -790 +804 00:35:40,868 --> 00:35:42,383 to -791 +805 00:35:42,384 --> 00:35:44,048 break things down. And then, you know, that way, like together, -792 +806 00:35:44,048 --> 00:35:45,712 we -793 +807 00:35:45,713 --> 00:35:48,893 have that support, but we're, we're making progress on the -794 +808 00:35:48,893 --> 00:35:51,143 things that we really enjoy doing it. -795 +809 00:35:52,153 --> 00:35:53,728 Jessica: Exactly. I mean, I think ideas are fun and playing -796 +810 00:35:53,728 --> 00:35:55,303 around -797 +811 00:35:55,304 --> 00:35:58,184 with them and then trying to implement them. And sometimes -798 +812 00:35:58,184 --> 00:36:00,103 people will call you crazy. I mean, people thought I was nuts -799 +813 00:36:00,344 --> 00:36:03,764 to try to do a publishing company. I remember I went to an -800 +814 00:36:03,764 --> 00:36:07,523 alumni event. And I was just started with the business and I, -801 +815 00:36:07,523 --> 00:36:10,344 you know, you go around and does events and you talk to small -802 +816 00:36:10,344 --> 00:36:11,649 groups of people, and it was some sort of administrator with -803 +817 00:36:11,649 --> 00:36:12,954 the -804 +818 00:36:12,954 --> 00:36:17,304 university of Rochester. And she was asking me what my next plans -805 +819 00:36:17,304 --> 00:36:19,268 were. I said, well, you know, I just moved here to LA and -806 +820 00:36:19,268 --> 00:36:21,232 looking -807 +821 00:36:21,233 --> 00:36:24,353 for freelance work, but I also have this sheet music business -808 +822 00:36:24,353 --> 00:36:26,278 that he just got started and she was. Why I'm like, oh, okay. -809 +823 00:36:26,278 --> 00:36:28,203 Well, -810 +824 00:36:29,403 --> 00:36:33,333 let me tell you why that was a little taken aback. I was like, -811 +825 00:36:33,333 --> 00:36:35,448 okay, great. Well, this -812 +826 00:36:35,448 --> 00:36:37,563 conversation won't last long, +but -813 +827 00:36:37,563 --> 00:36:40,324 so I had a few people. They're just like, why would you, why -814 +828 00:36:40,324 --> 00:36:42,401 would you do that? But I just had a very specific. Vision of -815 +829 00:36:42,401 --> 00:36:44,478 what I -816 +830 00:36:44,478 --> 00:36:46,548 wanted with my sheet music business. And then people were -817 +831 00:36:46,548 --> 00:36:47,913 surprised that it actually turned into a business. I'm -818 +832 00:36:47,913 --> 00:36:49,278 like, well, -819 +833 00:36:49,309 --> 00:36:52,639 yeah, I told her I was going to do that. You didn't believe me. -820 +834 00:36:53,628 --> 00:36:56,748 And so, yeah, I think sometimes people will just reject it and -821 +835 00:36:56,748 --> 00:36:58,458 then once they see it come true and they're like, oh, okay. I -822 +836 00:36:58,458 --> 00:37:00,168 see -823 +837 00:37:00,168 --> 00:37:02,778 it there. I mean, the same thing happened with, with Disney where -824 +838 00:37:02,778 --> 00:37:04,233 people thought he was nuts to build a park in Anaheim where -825 +839 00:37:04,233 --> 00:37:05,688 all -826 +840 00:37:05,688 --> 00:37:07,553 these orange trees were and then. Obviously that worked out -827 +841 00:37:07,553 --> 00:37:09,418 for -828 +842 00:37:09,418 --> 00:37:11,113 him, but initially people thought he was just completely -829 +843 00:37:11,113 --> 00:37:12,808 nuts. Like -830 +844 00:37:12,809 --> 00:37:16,378 who's going to go to this park and where is Anaheim and Well, -831 +845 00:37:16,409 --> 00:37:17,429 people were wrong there. -832 +846 00:37:20,003 --> 00:37:21,844 Bekah: Well, I love that confidence that you talk It with -833 +847 00:37:21,864 --> 00:37:23,199 too. You're like, yeah, I'm going to do this thing because I -834 +848 00:37:23,199 --> 00:37:24,534 want -835 +849 00:37:24,534 --> 00:37:28,043 to do it. And it's a good idea. And at some point, people start -836 +850 00:37:28,043 --> 00:37:32,003 to buy into that idea because of how you present it and the -837 +851 00:37:32,003 --> 00:37:33,803 confidence that you use. And, oh, you're just like, love how -838 +852 00:37:33,803 --> 00:37:35,603 chill -839 +853 00:37:35,603 --> 00:37:37,664 you are when you talk about things. I'm like, oh yeah, yeah. -840 +854 00:37:37,673 --> 00:37:40,824 I would definitely work with Jessica on that, you know? -841 +855 00:37:42,068 --> 00:37:44,818 Jessica: I just like going for things cause it's like, Yeah, it -842 +856 00:37:44,818 --> 00:37:46,203 either works out or it doesn't it. And if it doesn't work out, -843 +857 00:37:46,203 --> 00:37:47,588 I -844 +858 00:37:47,588 --> 00:37:50,318 learned something. I had plenty of things that didn't work out, -845 +859 00:37:50,708 --> 00:37:52,628 I'm glad I tried it. So I could at least learn along the way, -846 +860 00:37:52,628 --> 00:37:54,548 but -847 +861 00:37:54,639 --> 00:37:57,759 sometimes you just gotta go for it. You can't really play safe -848 +862 00:37:57,789 --> 00:38:00,438 and, and, you know what to do too risky. You don't want to go -849 +863 00:38:00,438 --> 00:38:01,963 like bankrupt or anything crazy, but like, you know, you just -850 +864 00:38:01,963 --> 00:38:03,488 want -851 +865 00:38:03,489 --> 00:38:07,583 to. If you have an idea and you feel really confident about it, -852 +866 00:38:07,583 --> 00:38:09,954 just, just go for it and take it one step at a time. There. -853 +867 00:38:10,929 --> 00:38:13,748 Dan: Yeah, it's a theme. That's come up a few times on the -854 +868 00:38:13,748 --> 00:38:16,889 podcast that, you know, it makes me think of a Structured YOLO. -855 +869 00:38:16,989 --> 00:38:20,528 Nick Taylor, which is a phrase he, he coined, you know, -856 +870 00:38:20,528 --> 00:38:22,073 but it's the same sort of idea, right? It's is. You know, I -857 +871 00:38:22,073 --> 00:38:23,618 mean, -858 +872 00:38:25,059 --> 00:38:27,998 don't want to go full YOLO, right. But the -859 +873 00:38:28,074 --> 00:38:28,614 Jessica: Exactly. -860 +874 00:38:28,778 --> 00:38:29,659 Dan: structured YOLO. Yeah, -861 +875 00:38:29,693 --> 00:38:30,563 Jessica: the way out there. I -862 +876 00:38:30,708 --> 00:38:30,918 Dan: yeah, -863 +877 00:38:31,103 --> 00:38:31,224 Jessica: my -864 +878 00:38:31,228 --> 00:38:32,139 Bekah: little bit of YOLO. -865 +879 00:38:32,588 --> 00:38:32,918 Dan: yeah, -866 +880 00:38:32,934 --> 00:38:35,213 Jessica: my business, I wasn't like, okay, cool. Let's just -867 +881 00:38:35,213 --> 00:38:37,224 raise all this money. No, that would have been crazy. Cause I -868 +882 00:38:37,224 --> 00:38:38,423 was like young, 20 something year old had didn't know what -869 +883 00:38:38,423 --> 00:38:39,622 they -870 +884 00:38:39,623 --> 00:38:41,138 were doing. Excited to take small little steps to get there. -871 +885 00:38:41,138 --> 00:38:42,653 I -872 +886 00:38:42,653 --> 00:38:46,673 couldn't go that big and do some crazy fundraising goal or -873 +887 00:38:46,673 --> 00:38:49,284 whatever when I had no clue what I was doing. So. -874 +888 00:38:49,559 --> 00:38:54,219 Dan: Absolutely. But the, know, the willingness to have an idea -875 +889 00:38:54,219 --> 00:38:59,048 that is not what a normal, I guess, whenever, you know, idea -876 +890 00:38:59,048 --> 00:39:01,028 that you might run into that conversation with somebody like, -877 +891 00:39:01,059 --> 00:39:03,039 well, why, why are you doing that? You know, but the -878 +892 00:39:03,039 --> 00:39:04,988 willingness to, jump into it, you know, and, and push -879 +893 00:39:04,988 --> 00:39:06,937 through, -880 +894 00:39:06,969 --> 00:39:09,278 I think is, a, know, a valuable, valuable trait to -881 +895 00:39:09,278 --> 00:39:11,587 have, -882 +896 00:39:11,588 --> 00:39:12,543 you know, and obviously it's served you, served you really -883 +897 00:39:12,543 --> 00:39:13,498 well. -884 +898 00:39:16,043 --> 00:39:22,224 Bekah: So sometimes, it can be really challenging to write. -885 +899 00:39:22,989 --> 00:39:29,289 Blog posts to get started and to receive feedback on blog posts. -886 +900 00:39:29,318 --> 00:39:33,239 You know, whether that's from an editor or somebody who has -887 +901 00:39:33,628 --> 00:39:42,369 commented on your posts in a way that is not, kind So how do -888 +902 00:39:42,369 --> 00:39:45,838 you navigate those challenging situations while you're writing? -889 +903 00:39:46,489 --> 00:39:48,431 Jessica: Yeah, It's feedback is always interesting, especially -890 +904 00:39:48,431 --> 00:39:50,373 in -891 +905 00:39:50,373 --> 00:39:51,768 the world of the internet because people can just hide -892 +906 00:39:51,768 --> 00:39:53,163 behind their -893 +907 00:39:53,164 --> 00:39:56,043 computers and save virtually anything to you that they -894 +908 00:39:56,043 --> 00:39:58,923 probably wouldn't say if you guys, if you were face-to-face -895 +909 00:39:58,923 --> 00:40:02,824 with them, but I try to just separate them between actual, -896 +910 00:40:02,824 --> 00:40:06,893 constructive feedback versus. ok this is not helpful. I'm just -897 +911 00:40:06,893 --> 00:40:09,983 going to move on. And so I've had, some constructive -898 +912 00:40:09,983 --> 00:40:13,643 feedback, like, oh, this is really good. could you like, -899 +913 00:40:13,793 --> 00:40:17,213 you know, expand on this part or could you talk more about this? -900 +914 00:40:17,213 --> 00:40:18,983 And I'm like, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And then there's -901 +915 00:40:18,983 --> 00:40:20,588 been times where it's like, well, I think it would be better -902 +916 00:40:20,588 --> 00:40:22,193 if you -903 +917 00:40:22,193 --> 00:40:25,014 went into this. I mean, that's what real developers do or -904 +918 00:40:25,014 --> 00:40:27,983 whatever. So I've got like those comments I'm like, okay, well -905 +919 00:40:27,983 --> 00:40:32,003 you're an obviously not helpful. And so I just learned that, -906 +920 00:40:32,003 --> 00:40:33,558 when I was running my business, There's just those comments -907 +921 00:40:33,558 --> 00:40:35,113 that, -908 +922 00:40:35,123 --> 00:40:38,923 that people just have to, you know, just write things and -909 +923 00:40:38,923 --> 00:40:41,864 you're just like, okay, I'm just not going to waste my energy on -910 +924 00:40:41,864 --> 00:40:46,003 that. It's a, luckily I haven't had too many just absolutely -911 +925 00:40:46,003 --> 00:40:49,063 horrific things. at least with my programming writing, -912 +926 00:40:49,094 --> 00:40:52,514 there was only one incident, that I had when I was running my -913 +927 00:40:52,574 --> 00:40:54,254 sheet music company, where there was this guy that went out of -914 +928 00:40:54,254 --> 00:40:55,934 his -915 +929 00:40:55,934 --> 00:41:01,054 way. To make accounts and post race, racist memes and stuff on -916 +930 00:41:01,054 --> 00:41:04,324 my page and on my YouTube channel. And I, of course I had -917 +931 00:41:04,324 --> 00:41:06,784 to block all that, but he would keep creating new accounts of -918 +932 00:41:06,793 --> 00:41:08,723 like, you're that threatened by what I'm doing, that you have to -919 +933 00:41:08,723 --> 00:41:10,653 spend -920 +934 00:41:10,653 --> 00:41:12,918 time. And so there are people out there that just are that -921 +935 00:41:12,918 --> 00:41:15,183 hateful -922 +936 00:41:15,813 --> 00:41:19,563 that you just exist because of your race or your gender. And -923 +937 00:41:19,653 --> 00:41:22,474 it's just like, okay, you know, it's a it's, it's okay to be -924 +938 00:41:22,474 --> 00:41:24,343 human. Yeah. you know, feel that and go, well, come on. -925 +939 00:41:24,343 --> 00:41:26,212 Yeah. -926 +940 00:41:26,244 --> 00:41:27,433 But at the end of the day, you just have to remember like -927 +941 00:41:27,433 --> 00:41:28,622 that's -928 +942 00:41:28,643 --> 00:41:30,548 their issue, right. They they're just a hateful person. Is he -929 +943 00:41:30,548 --> 00:41:32,453 just -930 +944 00:41:32,454 --> 00:41:34,673 trying to block them and move on? and, and just focus on -931 +945 00:41:34,673 --> 00:41:36,892 the -932 +946 00:41:37,063 --> 00:41:38,658 helpful, constructive feedback as well as the positive feedback -933 +947 00:41:38,658 --> 00:41:40,253 to, -934 +948 00:41:40,403 --> 00:41:42,623 to know that you're on the right track, you're doing the right -935 +949 00:41:42,623 --> 00:41:42,744 thing there. -936 +950 00:41:44,963 --> 00:41:46,313 Bekah: Yeah, I really liked that. And that's for a long -937 +951 00:41:46,313 --> 00:41:47,663 time, I -938 +952 00:41:47,693 --> 00:41:52,134 stayed away from blogging on any platform except my own blog, -939 +953 00:41:52,164 --> 00:41:55,929 because I didn't have comments enabled. I couldn't see how many -940 +954 00:41:55,929 --> 00:41:57,923 people liked it, And I still frequently think about going -941 +955 00:41:57,923 --> 00:41:59,917 back -942 +956 00:41:59,918 --> 00:42:02,408 to that rather than cross posting other places that, that -943 +957 00:42:02,408 --> 00:42:04,898 have -944 +958 00:42:05,349 --> 00:42:08,469 those built-in things, because sometimes it can just, it can be -945 +959 00:42:08,469 --> 00:42:10,719 hard or you put a lot of time and effort into something maybe -946 +960 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,969 two -947 +961 00:42:12,969 --> 00:42:17,119 people like it versus the thing that I, I YOLO'ed on a Saturday -948 +962 00:42:17,139 --> 00:42:20,378 night. And then there's all of these hits and like, what, what -949 +963 00:42:20,378 --> 00:42:21,248 is this? -950 -00:42:22,059 --> 00:42:24,998 -Jessica: Yeah. I I've been there -so many times both with like +964 +00:42:22,059 --> 00:42:23,528 +Jessica: Yeah. I, I've been +there so many times both with -951 +965 +00:42:23,528 --> 00:42:24,997 +like + +966 00:42:24,998 --> 00:42:28,179 writing technical articles then with sheet music where I'll -952 +967 00:42:28,179 --> 00:42:31,239 release a new product I'll be like, oh, this is good. Totally -953 +968 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:32,766 sell through. This is gonna be a hit. And then. The sales are -954 +969 00:42:32,766 --> 00:42:34,293 like -955 +970 00:42:34,293 --> 00:42:38,134 nothing. I'm like, okay, wildly misjudged that. And then I'll -956 +971 00:42:38,134 --> 00:42:40,773 release another product then like, okay, this will do okay. -957 +972 00:42:40,773 --> 00:42:42,963 And then it ends up being a breakout. I'm like, what -958 +973 00:42:42,963 --> 00:42:47,193 happened? What did I misjudged? That it's the same thing with -959 +974 00:42:47,193 --> 00:42:49,594 writing where there'll be some articles. Actually, this just -960 +975 00:42:49,594 --> 00:42:53,253 happened with the CodePen and Replit articles, because I -961 +976 00:42:53,253 --> 00:42:54,903 decided to write those because FreeCodeCamp up uses both of -962 +977 00:42:54,903 --> 00:42:56,553 those -963 +978 00:42:56,554 --> 00:42:59,998 tools, in their certifications. There really -964 +979 00:42:59,998 --> 00:43:04,048 should be a guide to help them since it's based on the course. -965 +980 00:43:04,048 --> 00:43:05,398 And I just thought, okay, well, few people write these. -966 +981 00:43:05,398 --> 00:43:06,748 Hopefully -967 +982 00:43:06,748 --> 00:43:09,449 they'll just refer to them. But then both of them were retweeted -968 +983 00:43:09,478 --> 00:43:13,829 by the co-founders and the CEO. And I'm like, okay, that was -969 +984 00:43:13,858 --> 00:43:15,659 unexpected, but that's kind of cool. -970 +985 00:43:17,081 --> 00:43:21,608 Dan: Do you ever, like doing tech support comments, you know, -971 +986 00:43:21,608 --> 00:43:24,409 sections when you're writing technical articles, -972 +987 00:43:24,409 --> 00:43:27,568 Jessica: I do. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes someone's like, oh, I -973 +988 00:43:27,568 --> 00:43:31,259 tried this example from your article. It's not working. And -974 +989 00:43:31,259 --> 00:43:32,308 I'm like, oh, could you write the code? It's sometimes it's -975 +990 00:43:32,308 --> 00:43:33,357 hard. -976 +991 00:43:33,358 --> 00:43:36,329 Cause like Twitter and stuff, it's not really good for writing -977 +992 00:43:36,329 --> 00:43:37,319 code, but I'm like, I don't know, just try your best or take -978 +993 00:43:37,319 --> 00:43:38,309 a -979 +994 00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:41,429 picture or something. then I'll say, oh, you have this syntax -980 +995 00:43:41,429 --> 00:43:43,739 error right here. If you clean that up, that you should be good -981 +996 00:43:43,739 --> 00:43:47,829 to go. It's a. Sometimes just kind of, or actually this -982 +997 00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:50,679 just happened to, with, the NodeMailer article where they're -983 +998 00:43:50,679 --> 00:43:53,588 like, oh, could you put this up on, GitHub repos so we could -984 +999 00:43:53,588 --> 00:43:55,688 study it? And I was like, oh yeah, I should totally do that. -985 +1000 00:43:55,688 --> 00:43:57,773 Cause I had just posted the final code in the article. and -986 +1001 00:43:57,773 --> 00:43:59,858 without -987 +1002 00:43:59,858 --> 00:44:03,548 thinking, like people would want to study it and, you know, -988 +1003 00:44:03,548 --> 00:44:06,068 fork it and all this fun stuff. I was like, oh yeah, we should -989 +1004 00:44:06,068 --> 00:44:10,088 probably do that. So I created a GitHub repository and then, -990 +1005 00:44:10,119 --> 00:44:11,768 -just shared it with that. But +just shared it with them. But sometimes I'll kind of -991 +1006 00:44:11,768 --> 00:44:14,018 troubleshoot with them as best as possible. but sometimes -992 +1007 00:44:14,018 --> 00:44:16,268 their questions are vague. -993 +1008 00:44:16,298 --> 00:44:19,719 I'm like, I'm not really sure what you're working with unless -994 +1009 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,838 we like together on some sort of zoom meet, but I don't know how -995 +1010 00:44:23,079 --> 00:44:24,369 feasible that is, but -996 +1011 00:44:26,273 --> 00:44:27,833 Bekah: yeah. that doesn't scale. Well, I think. -997 +1012 00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:33,518 Dan: What about, so you mentioned like code stuff like -998 +1013 00:44:33,518 --> 00:44:38,409 that. kind of, I dunno process, or I guess I'm looking -999 +1014 00:44:38,409 --> 00:44:43,313 for advice generally. if, you if if your, article Involves a -1000 +1015 00:44:43,313 --> 00:44:45,473 lot of code and stuff like that. -Do you try to, like things +Do you try to, like break things -1001 +1016 00:44:45,473 --> 00:44:47,633 up -1002 -00:44:47,634 --> 00:44:51,204 +1017 +00:44:47,634 --> 00:44:49,419 into little bits or make a link -to Like, you know, like you +to a repository Like, you know, -1003 +1018 +00:44:49,419 --> 00:44:51,204 +like you + +1019 00:44:51,204 --> 00:44:53,574 mentioned, what, what kind of, of approaches do you take -1004 +1020 00:44:53,574 --> 00:44:56,213 with, w with technical articles -and with +and with examples -1005 +1021 00:44:56,994 --> 00:44:58,568 Jessica: Yeah. So for some of the examples they're really -1006 +1022 00:44:58,568 --> 00:45:00,142 small, -1007 +1023 00:45:00,143 --> 00:45:04,494 like I just wrote one about, JavaScript contains or includes -1008 +1024 00:45:04,494 --> 00:45:07,704 method. and so those were like really, really small, -1009 +1025 00:45:07,824 --> 00:45:09,443 code examples in there. But then one of my other articles -1010 +1026 00:45:09,443 --> 00:45:11,062 was -1011 +1027 00:45:11,063 --> 00:45:13,568 on the MVC pattern. And so I kind of had to struggle with how -1012 +1028 00:45:13,568 --> 00:45:16,073 much -1013 +1029 00:45:16,074 --> 00:45:18,864 code am I going to include in this? Cause I built an app -1014 +1030 00:45:18,864 --> 00:45:22,518 specifically to talk about that pattern. But I thought, okay, is -1015 +1031 00:45:22,518 --> 00:45:25,969 this going to be a full walkthrough tutorial, or am I -1016 +1032 00:45:25,969 --> 00:45:29,449 just going to give out chunks of it? So it ended up working where -1017 +1033 00:45:29,449 --> 00:45:33,384 I said, okay, it's fine. If they don't. Work with that particular -1018 +1034 00:45:33,384 --> 00:45:35,543 stack that I was working with and I was working with the MERN -1019 +1035 00:45:35,543 --> 00:45:38,664 stack, but if I could just talk about the concepts and just have -1020 +1036 00:45:38,664 --> 00:45:40,268 a few snippets of code and say, this is what this code does. -1021 +1037 00:45:40,268 --> 00:45:41,872 Even -1022 +1038 00:45:41,873 --> 00:45:44,994 if you're not a JavaScript developer, at least they can, -1023 +1039 00:45:45,023 --> 00:45:48,384 there's some context. And I had the final, project there that -1024 +1040 00:45:48,384 --> 00:45:51,503 they could look at and say, oh, okay, that's what she's doing -1025 +1041 00:45:51,503 --> 00:45:54,173 here. And so sometimes you'll you just want to have like these -1026 +1042 00:45:54,173 --> 00:45:56,364 small little code examples sometimes it's totally fine to -1027 +1043 00:45:56,364 --> 00:45:58,669 just link to a repository if it's super super long. cause -1028 +1044 00:45:58,669 --> 00:46:00,974 then -1029 +1045 00:46:01,034 --> 00:46:04,034 there's that battle between length and it's like, how much -1030 +1046 00:46:04,034 --> 00:46:08,173 are people really gonna read? If it's super, super long, there's -1031 +1047 00:46:08,173 --> 00:46:09,718 not too many, really long articles on FreeCodeCamp. -1032 +1048 00:46:09,718 --> 00:46:11,263 There's -1033 +1049 00:46:11,264 --> 00:46:14,474 a few that are like at 7,000 plus words. I personally haven't -1034 +1050 00:46:14,474 --> 00:46:17,331 written any of those. but I think my longest is 20 I think -1035 +1051 00:46:17,331 --> 00:46:20,188 my -1036 +1052 00:46:20,188 --> 00:46:21,838 longest was 3000, but that ended up just listing off all the -1037 +1053 00:46:21,838 --> 00:46:23,488 types -1038 +1054 00:46:23,489 --> 00:46:25,784 of like free courses you could take. but, yeah, I try to -1039 +1055 00:46:25,784 --> 00:46:28,079 hit -1040 +1056 00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:32,789 that magic mark of like 1500, a thousand words or less. I mean, -1041 +1057 00:46:32,789 --> 00:46:35,009 if there's only so much, you could write about some of these -1042 +1058 00:46:35,009 --> 00:46:38,849 methods where it's like, I can't write 1500 words on the includes -1043 +1059 00:46:38,849 --> 00:46:41,248 method for JavaScript. There's only so much you could do there -1044 +1060 00:46:42,208 --> 00:46:42,449 that. -1045 +1061 00:46:43,403 --> 00:46:44,115 Dan: Oh, that's a good note. I mean, and that's also an -1046 +1062 00:46:44,115 --> 00:46:44,827 interesting -1047 +1063 00:46:44,828 --> 00:46:46,253 thing -1048 +1064 00:46:46,253 --> 00:46:52,539 to like of, you know, writing, -you. If you could feel +do you. If you could feel -1049 +1065 00:46:52,539 --> 00:46:55,329 yourself getting like too long, you know, it, do you try to cut -1050 +1066 00:46:55,329 --> 00:46:57,309 down or do you about splitting it up, but, you I suppose it -1051 +1067 00:46:57,309 --> 00:46:59,289 depends -1052 +1068 00:46:59,289 --> 00:47:03,668 on what platform you're on or Code Camp or not, or, you know, -1053 +1069 00:47:03,668 --> 00:47:05,268 but generally -1054 +1070 00:47:05,548 --> 00:47:05,728 Jessica: right. Cause -1055 +1071 00:47:05,798 --> 00:47:06,159 Dan: you know, -1056 +1072 00:47:06,344 --> 00:47:08,953 Jessica: I just joined dev.to, week ago and, or I think I -1057 +1073 00:47:08,953 --> 00:47:11,562 joined -1058 +1074 00:47:11,563 --> 00:47:16,184 a while for Nick's VS Code tips, and then just hadn't used it for -1059 +1075 00:47:16,184 --> 00:47:19,643 awhile then, like rejoined, I -guess. for the NodeMailer +guess. and for the NodeMailer -1060 +1076 00:47:19,664 --> 00:47:22,833 article, I was like, oh, Well, I have these ideas about how to -1061 +1077 00:47:22,833 --> 00:47:24,888 style the emails and how to, actually, you know, deploy -1062 +1078 00:47:24,888 --> 00:47:26,943 it -1063 +1079 00:47:26,943 --> 00:47:28,068 to Heroku. But maybe we could just break that up. That could -1064 +1080 00:47:28,068 --> 00:47:29,193 be -1065 +1081 00:47:29,193 --> 00:47:30,933 a separate article. And I like how in DEV.to, you can link -1066 +1082 00:47:30,933 --> 00:47:32,673 to -1067 +1083 00:47:32,673 --> 00:47:35,014 like, create your own little series and it will link all the -1068 +1084 00:47:35,014 --> 00:47:38,224 articles together. so sometimes when you're writing something, -1069 +1085 00:47:38,224 --> 00:47:41,284 you're like, huh, I have these other ideas. Maybe it could be -1070 +1086 00:47:41,284 --> 00:47:42,889 like, this is part one. And then this is part two and stick -1071 +1087 00:47:42,889 --> 00:47:44,494 around -1072 +1088 00:47:44,494 --> 00:47:47,253 for part three or something. think that's totally fine. Just -1073 +1089 00:47:47,253 --> 00:47:50,164 so it doesn't become this monster article. It's like, ah, -1074 +1090 00:47:50,699 --> 00:47:54,349 Everybody. It's the same thing with videos. I think some of the -1075 +1091 00:47:54,349 --> 00:47:58,099 videos are super long on some of these channels -1076 +1092 00:47:58,224 --> 00:47:58,344 Dan: Yeah. -1077 +1093 00:47:58,759 --> 00:48:00,438 Jessica: where like, if somebody's going to sit through -1078 +1094 00:48:00,438 --> 00:48:03,679 17 hours or is that one of those things where you just got to -1079 +1095 00:48:03,679 --> 00:48:08,119 break it up into smaller bite size videos. but I guess -1080 +1096 00:48:08,119 --> 00:48:10,518 everybody has their own learning methods. So maybe there are -1081 +1097 00:48:10,518 --> 00:48:15,318 people that will go through a 17 hour video or, you know, 7,000. -1082 +1098 00:48:15,318 --> 00:48:17,594 Bekah: My husband used to livestream for FreeCodeCamp. And -1083 +1099 00:48:17,903 --> 00:48:21,673 sometimes he would do it for hours and people would stay the -1084 +1100 00:48:21,673 --> 00:48:22,233 whole time. -1085 +1101 00:48:22,273 --> 00:48:24,748 Jessica: Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's some like, yeah. I'm just like, -1086 +1102 00:48:24,869 --> 00:48:26,099 wow, how -1087 +1103 00:48:26,159 --> 00:48:30,028 Bekah: I just live stream for an hour for the first time ever, -1088 +1104 00:48:30,028 --> 00:48:35,998 probably by myself. I was tired of hearing myself talk, like, I -1089 +1105 00:48:35,998 --> 00:48:38,159 can't imagine how everybody else was feeling. You know -1090 +1106 00:48:38,219 --> 00:48:38,789 Jessica: right. -1091 -00:48:39,028 --> 00:48:44,199 -Bekah: my attention span to die. -And then I, then I start YOLOing +1107 +00:48:39,028 --> 00:48:41,613 +Bekah: my attention span starts +to die. And then I, then I start -1092 +1108 +00:48:41,613 --> 00:48:44,198 +YOLOing + +1109 00:48:44,248 --> 00:48:47,849 things and it's, it's not, not the place I want to be -1093 +1110 00:48:48,179 --> 00:48:50,384 Jessica: Right. Right. You know, actually that reminds me, Danny -1094 +1111 00:48:50,384 --> 00:48:52,169 Thompson is one where he has these really long Twitter -1095 +1112 00:48:52,169 --> 00:48:53,954 spaces, -1096 +1113 00:48:53,983 --> 00:48:57,134 but they're really good. So that's why he kind of is able to -1097 +1114 00:48:57,134 --> 00:48:59,011 get away with it because for most people. They would kind of -1098 +1115 00:48:59,011 --> 00:49:00,888 die -1099 +1116 00:49:00,889 --> 00:49:05,389 off after like at 45 minutes or an hour, sometimes he'll go for -1100 +1117 00:49:05,389 --> 00:49:08,148 like three hours or longer. And then there's still like hundreds -1101 +1118 00:49:08,148 --> 00:49:12,079 of people and I'm just like, wow, that's kudos to him there. -1102 +1119 00:49:14,429 --> 00:49:15,659 Bekah: I feel like you need voice training for some or -1103 +1120 00:49:15,659 --> 00:49:16,889 something, -1104 +1121 00:49:16,918 --> 00:49:19,378 you know, like even talking, even when I used to teach night -1105 +1122 00:49:19,378 --> 00:49:24,208 classes, like three hours of having conversation and by the -1106 +1123 00:49:24,208 --> 00:49:27,266 end, My throat hurts, you know, and like I am done, I, I did -1107 +1124 00:49:27,266 --> 00:49:30,324 know -1108 +1125 00:49:30,324 --> 00:49:33,048 a teacher who was taking voice classes for that reason, because -1109 +1126 00:49:33,048 --> 00:49:35,772 they -1110 +1127 00:49:35,784 --> 00:49:38,213 were saying, it's, it's how you're using your voice and you -1111 +1128 00:49:38,213 --> 00:49:39,503 have to do it in this different way. And then you'll be fine. -1112 +1129 00:49:39,503 --> 00:49:40,793 And -1113 +1130 00:49:40,793 --> 00:49:47,949 exercise your muscle. Like, ah, I know that's a lot. I mean, I -1114 +1131 00:49:47,949 --> 00:49:50,619 think it's the same thing for writing too. It's it's a muscle -1115 +1132 00:49:50,619 --> 00:49:53,679 that you have to exercise. So I imagine, I mean, you're writing -1116 +1133 00:49:53,679 --> 00:49:55,598 on a lot of new topics all the time and learning things, but -1117 +1134 00:49:55,598 --> 00:49:57,517 has -1118 +1135 00:49:57,518 --> 00:49:59,498 the writing process gotten easier? -1119 +1136 00:50:00,063 --> 00:50:03,543 Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I now have more of like a game plan on how -1120 +1137 00:50:03,543 --> 00:50:05,058 I'm going to enter into an article. And so I usually like -1121 +1138 00:50:05,058 --> 00:50:06,573 to -1122 +1139 00:50:06,574 --> 00:50:09,213 start off with just a little introductory paragraph, knowing -1123 +1140 00:50:09,213 --> 00:50:11,914 I'm probably going to edit it later on, but I just throw -1124 +1141 00:50:11,914 --> 00:50:15,003 something up and then I get into the meat of the article and kind -1125 +1142 00:50:15,003 --> 00:50:19,023 of flesh it out. and then once I clean up the actual main -1126 +1143 00:50:19,023 --> 00:50:21,994 part, then I can go through and come up with a really good -1127 +1144 00:50:22,023 --> 00:50:25,384 introductory paragraph and a conclusion there I try to focus -1128 +1145 00:50:25,384 --> 00:50:29,824 all my intention, you know, just writing the main parts. And -1129 +1146 00:50:29,824 --> 00:50:33,139 sometimes I just do like a free write. Throw words on the page -1130 +1147 00:50:33,139 --> 00:50:35,089 and of them make it some of them, I cut out sections. I'm -1131 +1148 00:50:35,089 --> 00:50:37,039 like, I -1132 +1149 00:50:37,039 --> 00:50:38,748 don't know what this was. I mean, that just happened with -1133 +1150 00:50:38,748 --> 00:50:40,457 the -1134 +1151 00:50:40,458 --> 00:50:42,168 article a few weeks ago on how to create tables and SQL. And -1135 +1152 00:50:42,168 --> 00:50:43,878 some -1136 +1153 00:50:43,878 --> 00:50:47,208 of those sections of like, why this doesn't make any sense. I -1137 +1154 00:50:47,208 --> 00:50:48,948 don't know why this, I thought this was relevant, but I was -1138 +1155 00:50:48,948 --> 00:50:50,688 just -1139 +1156 00:50:50,688 --> 00:50:53,028 throwing words on the page. I'm like, oh, I should talk about -1140 +1157 00:50:53,028 --> 00:50:54,950 this. And then I read it back. No, I shouldn't have talked -1141 +1158 00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:56,872 about -1142 +1159 00:50:56,873 --> 00:50:59,784 that, but that's an easier? for us to kind of cut things out -1143 +1160 00:50:59,784 --> 00:51:02,844 there and then just reshape it into something acceptable that I -1144 -00:51:02,844 --> 00:51:05,693 -could send to the editor. she -doesn't have to look at it and +1161 +00:51:02,844 --> 00:51:04,268 +could send to the editor. and +she doesn't have to look at it -1145 +1162 +00:51:04,268 --> 00:51:05,692 +and + +1163 00:51:05,693 --> 00:51:06,773 go, what is this? -1146 +1164 00:51:08,463 --> 00:51:09,663 Dan: There's one of the benefits of the writing medium, right? Is -1147 +1165 00:51:09,663 --> 00:51:10,863 do you -1148 +1166 00:51:10,864 --> 00:51:14,733 have the, it easier to go back and things out that don't make -1149 +1167 00:51:14,733 --> 00:51:14,974 sense, -1150 +1168 00:51:15,364 --> 00:51:16,324 Jessica: Exactly. Yeah. -1151 +1169 00:51:16,384 --> 00:51:18,439 Dan: as opposed to maybe a live streamer, something things to -1152 +1170 00:51:18,439 --> 00:51:20,494 get -1153 +1171 00:51:20,494 --> 00:51:20,914 out there? -1154 +1172 00:51:20,983 --> 00:51:23,143 Bekah: the expectation of live streaming, so -1155 +1173 00:51:23,474 --> 00:51:23,914 Dan: no, for sure. -1156 +1174 00:51:24,974 --> 00:51:29,300 Bekah: acceptable thing. I can't -remember what to say. Oh, +remember what I was to say. Oh, -1157 +1175 00:51:29,300 --> 00:51:33,626 I -1158 +1176 00:51:33,626 --> 00:51:36,539 know what I was gonna say. Rough drafts are so important. -1159 +1177 00:51:36,539 --> 00:51:39,452 I, -1160 +1178 00:51:39,452 --> 00:51:41,641 and I think that it's worth it to point out that there's a -1161 +1179 00:51:41,641 --> 00:51:43,830 process -1162 +1180 00:51:43,862 --> 00:51:46,081 that you get better at that process. And you have a rough -1163 +1181 00:51:46,081 --> 00:51:50,132 draft. No, nobody puts out a perfect rough draft, a perfect -1164 +1182 00:51:50,132 --> 00:51:54,141 draft. The first time it is a process and it does take time. -1165 +1183 00:51:55,097 --> 00:51:57,151 But You know, just listening to you talk about tech, Jessica, -1166 +1184 00:51:57,151 --> 00:51:59,205 you -1167 +1185 00:51:59,237 --> 00:52:04,967 -communicate it so wellthat it's +communicate it so well that it's really, I feel like I learned a -1168 +1186 00:52:04,967 --> 00:52:08,757 lot just hearing you talk about these things. And so you can -1169 +1187 00:52:08,757 --> 00:52:12,286 really appreciate that process of learning and then, and how it -1170 +1188 00:52:12,286 --> 00:52:16,916 impacts the way that you talk about things. And I imagine it, -1171 +1189 00:52:16,936 --> 00:52:18,991 that goes into interviewing and stuff like that. Because if you -1172 +1190 00:52:18,991 --> 00:52:21,046 talk -1173 +1191 00:52:21,047 --> 00:52:22,797 with credibility, then people are more likely to. see you -1174 +1192 00:52:22,797 --> 00:52:24,547 as a -1175 +1193 00:52:24,547 --> 00:52:25,536 credible person. -1176 +1194 00:52:26,356 --> 00:52:29,297 Jessica: Yeah, Yeah. And that's the thing is that want to come -1177 +1195 00:52:29,297 --> 00:52:31,187 across as, how can I add value to the company or organization -1178 +1196 00:52:31,187 --> 00:52:33,077 if -1179 +1197 00:52:33,077 --> 00:52:36,166 you come across as I just really need a job? Well, the company's -1180 +1198 00:52:36,166 --> 00:52:37,546 not really hiring you because you need a job. Like they're -1181 +1199 00:52:37,546 --> 00:52:38,926 hiring -1182 +1200 00:52:38,927 --> 00:52:40,727 you because they need people to join their team and add value. -1183 +1201 00:52:40,727 --> 00:52:42,527 if -1184 +1202 00:52:42,527 --> 00:52:45,376 you come in and say, here's how I can add value to you, then -1185 +1203 00:52:45,376 --> 00:52:48,347 they'll listen. And I think that's just coming in with a -1186 +1204 00:52:48,347 --> 00:52:51,291 little bit of confidence. Will go a long way there. -1187 +1205 00:52:53,206 --> 00:52:55,111 Bekah: Yeah, absolutely. So we're at about time here, but -1188 +1206 00:52:55,111 --> 00:52:57,016 are there -1189 +1207 00:52:57,016 --> 00:53:02,297 any last tips that you have for our listeners about getting, -1190 +1208 00:53:02,297 --> 00:53:04,007 started with writing? -1191 +1209 00:53:04,967 --> 00:53:09,737 Jessica: I think just the best tip is just, get started. I -1192 +1210 00:53:09,737 --> 00:53:12,106 think a lot of people procrastinate because they're -1193 +1211 00:53:12,106 --> 00:53:13,006 like, I don't know what to write about. I don't know what to do. -1194 +1212 00:53:13,006 --> 00:53:13,906 I -1195 +1213 00:53:13,907 --> 00:53:17,416 don't know how to get started. get started and just start -1196 +1214 00:53:17,416 --> 00:53:19,936 working from there. And you can always ask for feedback within -1197 +1215 00:53:19,936 --> 00:53:21,406 your community and say, Hey, I'm writing this article. I dunno -1198 +1216 00:53:21,406 --> 00:53:22,876 how -1199 +1217 00:53:22,876 --> 00:53:27,496 it really works it yet, or it needs some help, but, don't -1200 +1218 00:53:27,496 --> 00:53:29,353 wait for the perfect momnet. To -get started writing? to just +get started writing. to just -1201 +1219 00:53:29,353 --> 00:53:31,210 start -1202 +1220 00:53:31,211 --> 00:53:32,666 writing, to start throwing some words on the page, start -1203 +1221 00:53:32,666 --> 00:53:34,121 creating -1204 +1222 00:53:34,121 --> 00:53:37,961 an outline, then you can shape it and edit it down from there. -1205 +1223 00:53:39,271 --> 00:53:40,246 Bekah: Awesome. thank you so much for being here with us -1206 +1224 00:53:40,246 --> 00:53:41,221 today. This -1207 +1225 00:53:41,221 --> 00:53:43,171 is really great -1208 +1226 00:53:43,257 --> 00:53:43,617 Dan: Yeah. -1209 +1227 00:53:43,652 --> 00:53:46,771 Bekah: to hear you talk about this and your journey. You have -1210 +1228 00:53:46,771 --> 00:53:49,592 so many fascinating things, and I'm really glad that we got to -1211 +1229 00:53:49,592 --> 00:53:50,311 hear them today. -1212 +1230 00:53:50,621 --> 00:53:52,181 Jessica: Yeah. Well, Thank you, so much for having me. -1213 +1231 00:53:52,516 --> 00:53:54,617 Dan: Yeah. Thank you, Jessica. I appreciate it. -1214 +1232 00:53:55,411 --> 00:53:56,132 Bekah: Okay, bye. -1215 +1233 00:53:56,851 --> 00:53:57,000 Jessica: Bye. -1216 +1234 Dan: Bye. -1217 +1235 00:54:01,023 --> 00:54:03,333 Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual -1218 +1236 00:54:03,333 --> 00:54:06,853 Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah -1219 +1237 00:54:06,873 --> 00:54:10,034 Hawrot Weigel, and was edited by Andy Bonjour at GoodDay -1220 +1238 00:54:10,054 --> 00:54:12,844 Communications. If you have questions or comments, you can -1221 +1239 00:54:12,844 --> 00:54:16,083 hit us up on Twitter at VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at -1222 +1240 00:54:16,083 --> 00:54:18,513 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up -1223 +1241 00:54:18,513 --> 00:54:20,943 for -1224 +1242 00:54:20,943 --> 00:54:23,284 our newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our -1225 +1243 00:54:23,284 --> 00:54:25,518 website at virtualcoffee.io. And of course join us for our -1226 +1244 00:54:25,518 --> 00:54:27,752 Virtual -1227 +1245 00:54:27,753 --> 00:54:30,603 Coffee Chats every Tuesday at 9 am Eastern and Thursday at -1228 +1246 00:54:30,603 --> 00:54:32,401 12 pm Eastern Please subscribe to our podcast and be -1229 +1247 00:54:32,401 --> 00:54:34,199 sure to -1230 +1248 00:54:34,199 --> 00:54:37,260 leave us a review. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next -1231 +1249 00:54:37,260 --> 00:54:37,590 week! \ No newline at end of file From 38aa88af6c3d8451b7dcefa266755501a257a7d2 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Chris Jarvis Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 14:31:27 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 13/13] Delete episodes/3_9.srt removed extra file --- episodes/3_9.srt | 4819 ---------------------------------------------- 1 file changed, 4819 deletions(-) delete mode 100644 episodes/3_9.srt diff --git a/episodes/3_9.srt b/episodes/3_9.srt deleted file mode 100644 index 3229c41..0000000 --- a/episodes/3_9.srt +++ /dev/null @@ -1,4819 +0,0 @@ -1 -00:00:05,219 --> 00:00:06,748 -Kirk Shillingford: Hello, and -welcome to Season 3, Episode 9 - -2 -00:00:06,748 --> 00:00:08,277 -of - -3 -00:00:08,278 --> 00:00:12,817 -the Virtual Coffee podcast. I'm -definitely Bekah. - -4 -00:00:13,157 --> 00:00:15,137 -And this is a podcast that -features members of the - -5 -00:00:15,147 --> 00:00:19,934 -Virtual Coffee community. -Virtual Coffee is an intimate - -6 -00:00:17,204 --> 00:00:20,925 -group of devs at all stages of -their coding journey. - -7 -00:00:21,135 --> 00:00:23,265 -And they're here on this -podcast, sharing their stories. - -8 -00:00:23,265 --> 00:00:25,725 -And what they've learned, we're -here to share with you. - -9 -00:00:26,085 --> 00:00:28,364 -Here with me today is my cohost, -Dan. - -10 -00:00:29,304 --> 00:00:33,003 -Dan Ott: Thanks. [Laughter] -Definitely Bekah. - -11 -00:00:33,003 --> 00:00:35,899 -Today we have, a special episode -it is the last - -12 -00:00:35,899 --> 00:00:40,999 -episode of season three. And so -we are here with - -13 -00:00:37,789 --> 00:00:44,368 -Kirk Shillingford one of our -community maintainers - -14 -00:00:40,999 --> 00:00:44,499 -and Bekah is also actually here. -Real Bekah is here and fake - -15 -00:00:44,499 --> 00:00:47,000 -Bekah, - -16 -00:00:47,025 --> 00:00:47,999 -Kirk: I am definatly here. -[laughter] - -17 -00:00:44,819 --> 00:00:54,198 -Dan: All the Bekahs are here. -so we have some exciting - -18 -00:00:50,959 --> 00:00:58,774 -stuff coming up where you are, -about to kick into some of - -19 -00:00:54,228 --> 00:01:01,334 -our Hacktoberfest preparations. -And so we thought we would talk - -20 -00:00:58,814 --> 00:01:04,534 -a little bit about Hacktoberfest -last year and what we have going - -21 -00:01:01,353 --> 00:01:04,518 -on this year, as well as just -wrap up the season of our - -22 -00:01:04,518 --> 00:01:07,683 -podcast. - -23 -00:01:08,073 --> 00:01:10,894 -We start every episode of the -podcast like we start every - -24 -00:01:10,894 --> 00:01:13,743 -Virtual Coffee - we introduce -ourselves with our name where - -25 -00:01:13,743 --> 00:01:16,774 -we're from, what we do and a -random check-in question. - -26 -00:01:17,224 --> 00:01:20,823 -Today's question is if you had -to teach one class on one thing - -27 -00:01:20,823 --> 00:01:25,084 -right now, what would you teach? -We hope you enjoy this episode. - -28 -00:01:33,115 --> 00:01:36,831 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Hey. I'm -Bekah, I'm a front - -29 -00:01:34,370 --> 00:01:37,911 -end developer from a small town -in Ohio. - -30 -00:01:38,421 --> 00:01:41,150 -And if I had to teach one class -right now, like my - -31 -00:01:41,180 --> 00:01:43,521 -initial go-to is like, well, -I've taught English. - -32 -00:01:43,581 --> 00:01:48,531 -I could do that. but I- I still - -33 -00:01:45,501 --> 00:01:49,281 -don't want to, I'm still burnt -out from that. - -34 -00:01:49,611 --> 00:01:53,990 -So I would probably, I don't -know, like maybe a - -35 -00:01:54,021 --> 00:02:01,251 -kettlebell class or, a patients' -rights course for - -36 -00:02:01,251 --> 00:02:03,831 -navigating the medical system. -You know, - -37 -00:02:04,805 --> 00:02:06,245 -Dan: So like, that's going to be -like, a, like a - -38 -00:02:06,245 --> 00:02:07,296 -four year degree for that. - -39 -00:02:08,850 --> 00:02:08,911 -Kirk: Yeah. - -40 -00:02:10,311 --> 00:02:10,941 -Bekah: That's what you get. - -41 -00:02:11,445 --> 00:02:16,545 -Dan: Yeah. Fair enough. hi, I'm -Dan I'm a front-end - -42 -00:02:13,186 --> 00:02:19,485 -developer from Cleveland, Ohio, -and a maintainer - -43 -00:02:16,605 --> 00:02:22,786 -here at Virtual Coffee. And, -yeah, if I had - -44 -00:02:19,966 --> 00:02:25,395 -to teach a class on one thing, I -mean, I don't know. - -45 -00:02:25,395 --> 00:02:27,735 -There's- there's some computer -stuff I could do, but I think - -46 -00:02:27,735 --> 00:02:30,496 -starting a fire would be my one. -Did we do this before? - -47 -00:02:30,825 --> 00:02:31,725 -Now that I said that. - -48 -00:02:32,270 --> 00:02:33,621 -Bekah: Yeah. Now that you said -that that was - -49 -00:02:33,621 --> 00:02:34,251 -familiar. - -50 -00:02:35,256 --> 00:02:36,515 -Dan: Oh, maybe we did it in a -coffee. - -51 -00:02:36,545 --> 00:02:40,506 -I hope we didn't do it in a -podcast. All right. - -52 -00:02:40,506 --> 00:02:44,195 -Well, I'm sticking with it. you -know, if we are - -53 -00:02:41,436 --> 00:02:48,096 -repeating questions in the -podcast, please write in - -54 -00:02:44,195 --> 00:02:51,876 -and blame, real Bekah who you -heard at the top - -55 -00:02:48,216 --> 00:02:53,286 -of the episode, or fake Bekah -just don't blame Dan. - -56 -00:02:53,346 --> 00:02:58,475 -Because, well, you know, I'm -blameless, I'm blameless - -57 -00:02:59,406 --> 00:03:00,725 -in pretty much all situations. - -58 -00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:01,390 -Bekah: That is false. - -59 -00:03:01,992 --> 00:03:05,823 -Kirk: All right. This is -definitely Bekah. - -60 -00:03:06,043 --> 00:03:12,013 -Although sometimes you can call -me Kirk and, class. - -61 -00:03:12,043 --> 00:03:18,872 -I would teach you 100%. It would -be Sudoku I would - -62 -00:03:14,923 --> 00:03:21,872 -teach you all about Sudoku, -regular sort of who, - -63 -00:03:18,992 --> 00:03:23,552 -the different types, the -different cool techniques. - -64 -00:03:23,973 --> 00:03:26,013 -That's a joke. They're all cool -techniques. - -65 -00:03:27,423 --> 00:03:29,582 -yeah, that would, that would -totally be my thing. - -66 -00:03:29,582 --> 00:03:35,552 -And it would be lots of fun. -And, if we did this - -67 -00:03:31,622 --> 00:03:34,217 -question before, I didn't do -this question before, so. it's - -68 -00:03:34,217 --> 00:03:36,812 -fine. - -69 -00:03:37,635 --> 00:03:37,786 -Bekah: I would go to your Sudoku -class. - -70 -00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:44,381 -Dan: Fair enough. So the same. -Do you have a, I do have my - -71 -00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:46,031 -phone and I've never really like -found, an app. that I love. - -72 -00:03:48,311 --> 00:03:49,901 -Kirk: I can recommend some good -apps. - -73 -00:03:50,610 --> 00:03:50,881 -Dan: Okay. - -74 -00:03:50,950 --> 00:03:52,700 -Kirk: Well, I must clear, I have -four Sudoku apps on - -75 -00:03:52,700 --> 00:03:55,911 -my phone, but each one is a -different type of - -76 -00:03:54,281 --> 00:03:55,911 -Sudoku, so it's not weird. - -77 -00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,991 -Dan: Hmm. Okay. Well, what I -like, what's the, - -78 -00:03:57,411 --> 00:04:01,700 -what's your go-to app for the -like class, like just classic - -79 -00:04:01,945 --> 00:04:07,346 -Kirk: Okay. I have one it's all -bespoke - -80 -00:04:02,186 --> 00:04:11,695 -Sudoku, none of that and machine -generated, you - -81 -00:04:07,346 --> 00:04:15,145 -know, printed press stuff, real -artisan Sudokus, I'm - -82 -00:04:11,776 --> 00:04:17,716 -not even making that up, so, - -83 -00:04:18,196 --> 00:04:19,125 -Dan: Okay. Tell us what it's -called. - -84 -00:04:19,966 --> 00:04:27,050 -Kirk: oh, I just called it WIS. -It's called it's called - -85 -00:04:24,591 --> 00:04:32,000 -classic Sudoku. There's a -YouTube channel called - -86 -00:04:28,730 --> 00:04:38,661 -Cracking The Cryptic where you -can watch two, English - -87 -00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:40,071 -puzzle masters solve Sudoku is -and a variety of other puzzles. - -88 -00:04:40,071 --> 00:04:43,701 -And it's just the most lovely -thing in the world to watch - -89 -00:04:43,701 --> 00:04:46,761 -a middle age British men scoff, -"What a beautiful number." - -90 -00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,685 -So, They produce their own app -and they source it - -91 -00:04:50,685 --> 00:04:53,086 -from hustlers that we call -people who make puzzles, - -92 -00:04:53,086 --> 00:04:57,346 -puzzlers in the community. And -also though, cause we're - -93 -00:04:54,586 --> 00:04:58,605 -really good an app, like helps -you if you need to. - -94 -00:04:58,605 --> 00:05:00,286 -And it gives you like smart -hints, not just - -95 -00:05:00,286 --> 00:05:03,315 -like random hints. It's great. -It's a good app. Classic Sudoku - -96 -00:05:03,430 --> 00:05:04,031 -Dan: So, - -97 -00:05:04,125 --> 00:05:04,456 -Kirk: by Cracking The Cryptic - -98 -00:05:05,591 --> 00:05:11,110 -Dan: so a puzzler is someone who -creates the puzzles. Okay. - -99 -00:05:11,110 --> 00:05:14,511 -So what's what do you call -somebody who solves puzzle? - -100 -00:05:14,511 --> 00:05:14,940 -Kirk: A Solver - -101 -00:05:17,646 --> 00:05:18,305 -Bekah: That was boring. - -102 -00:05:19,091 --> 00:05:19,620 -Dan: Most boring. - -103 -00:05:20,586 --> 00:05:21,545 -Kirk: It's told you about custom -Sudoku - -104 -00:05:21,870 --> 00:05:25,471 -Dan: I feel like, I feel like -the Sudoku community needs to, - -105 -00:05:25,471 --> 00:05:30,060 -it needs to up their game, you -know, for making a silly, well, - -106 -00:05:30,060 --> 00:05:31,590 -not silly, but a pretentious -names for themselves, you know, - -107 -00:05:31,590 --> 00:05:33,120 -it's - -108 -00:05:33,750 --> 00:05:35,071 -just not, it's just not there. - -109 -00:05:35,146 --> 00:05:37,796 -Kirk: we're already doing -Sudokus. We're trying to really - -110 -00:05:37,796 --> 00:05:40,446 -hard to not upset everyone -around us. - -111 -00:05:41,475 --> 00:05:45,295 -Bekah: well, speaking of puzzles -and - -112 -00:05:41,805 --> 00:05:46,545 -games, Hacktoberfest sure seems -like that too. - -113 -00:05:48,576 --> 00:05:52,985 -Except we have maintainers and -contributors. See it's there. - -114 -00:05:53,076 --> 00:05:56,915 -That was a really good segue and -everybody should - -115 -00:05:54,995 --> 00:06:02,076 -acknowledge that. So last year -we did - -116 -00:05:58,985 --> 00:06:06,185 -Hacktoberfest for the first -time, and that's kind of what - -117 -00:06:02,076 --> 00:06:11,930 -stands out in my mind as- as -the, When, What, When we - -118 -00:06:06,216 --> 00:06:15,800 -really kind of came into phase -two, a Virtual Coffee, when - -119 -00:06:11,930 --> 00:06:19,880 -we became something that wasn't -just a pandemic group of people, - -120 -00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:22,610 -what is a group of developers at -all stages of the journey - -121 -00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:27,321 -that would be around for awhile. -And so, you know, - -122 -00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:29,420 -what- what we did last year, we -had an issue. - -123 -00:06:29,420 --> 00:06:33,500 -We helped, members get their -first contribution - -124 -00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:36,380 -for Hacktoberfest, which -HacktoberFest. - -125 -00:06:37,430 --> 00:06:42,920 -Is a month long focus on open -source contributions that - -126 -00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:48,471 -sponsored by Digital Ocean. And, -once you sign up, I - -127 -00:06:45,290 --> 00:06:52,490 -think you have to have four pull -requests and then you can get a - -128 -00:06:48,471 --> 00:06:55,670 -t-shirt and stickers, but it's -really fun and kind of a great - -129 -00:06:52,490 --> 00:06:57,050 -way to build community and to -learn more about each other. - -130 -00:06:57,500 --> 00:06:59,690 -I know from my perspective, I -mean, I learned about. - -131 -00:07:00,451 --> 00:07:05,630 -Organizing this. working with -mentors contributors - -132 -00:07:05,630 --> 00:07:08,370 -And- and it was my first time as -a maintainer as well. - -133 -00:07:08,370 --> 00:07:11,911 -So, you know, there were so many -lessons that- - -134 -00:07:11,971 --> 00:07:18,841 -that we learned last year. Maybe -if we just talk about like - -135 -00:07:13,860 --> 00:07:23,550 -our favorite parts of year, and -then we can move into what we're - -136 -00:07:18,841 --> 00:07:25,230 -taking from that into this year, -Which I'm really excited. - -137 -00:07:26,454 --> 00:07:33,805 -Dan: Yeah. yes. So favorite -parts from last - -138 -00:07:28,134 --> 00:07:38,694 -year, I enjoyed, you know, last -year we decided - -139 -00:07:33,805 --> 00:07:41,785 -to use the website as one of our -repos, which meant - -140 -00:07:38,694 --> 00:07:45,774 -we needed to make a website. So, -so we did that - -141 -00:07:42,415 --> 00:07:46,285 -pretty quickly and, - -142 -00:07:46,694 --> 00:07:47,714 -Bekah: By we, you mean you. - -143 -00:07:47,995 --> 00:07:53,689 -Dan: okay. The, the roy- the -Royal we, - -144 -00:07:48,535 --> 00:07:58,670 -And, One of the things that we -pulled together was, - -145 -00:07:53,689 --> 00:08:01,759 -Making it an- an- an issue for -having people add - -146 -00:07:58,670 --> 00:08:04,310 -themselves to the, to their -members directory, via code. - -147 -00:08:04,759 --> 00:08:09,199 -And we created an issue and, you -know, created, you - -148 -00:08:09,199 --> 00:08:11,029 -know, set up some guidelines and -stuff like that. - -149 -00:08:11,029 --> 00:08:13,399 -And then had a kickoff meeting -altogether where- where we - -150 -00:08:13,399 --> 00:08:16,790 -could get everybody going on, -Submitting a pull request. - -151 -00:08:17,540 --> 00:08:20,180 -In a Zoom meeting and that was a -lot of fun. - -152 -00:08:21,319 --> 00:08:25,370 -It was fun. We, we got, I think - -153 -00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:27,350 -everybody got it done. We had, -shout out to Marie. - -154 -00:08:27,350 --> 00:08:30,199 -I'm pretty sure who rescued me -at one point because somebody - -155 -00:08:30,199 --> 00:08:33,919 -was having problem with, git on -the command line and I don't - -156 -00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:39,210 -use git on the command don't, -and so I didn't know how to, - -157 -00:08:39,210 --> 00:08:42,440 -I'm a guy that I was like, I- I -mean, I- I made sure to before - -158 -00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,830 -the event, practice, you know, -the very simple things. - -159 -00:08:46,669 --> 00:08:49,190 -This was, we ran into something -that was, wasn't simple on. - -160 -00:08:49,220 --> 00:08:50,870 -I had no idea. Marie swooped - -161 -00:08:50,955 --> 00:08:51,014 -Kirk: Yeah. - -162 -00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,250 -Dan: with her superhero Cape -and, rescued my rescued me. - -163 -00:08:55,580 --> 00:08:56,840 -So shout out to Marie for that. - -164 -00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,620 -But, it was a lot of fun. Just -the event the whole - -165 -00:08:58,159 --> 00:09:03,529 -month was like that, the whole -month, it was just, - -166 -00:09:00,620 --> 00:09:06,289 -all members kind of ended up -being excited and- and we had - -167 -00:09:03,529 --> 00:09:11,700 -a, it was fun to have a goal, -you know, to everybody could - -168 -00:09:06,409 --> 00:09:13,230 -celebrate, you know, I dunno, it -was fun, but yeah, that, - -169 -00:09:11,700 --> 00:09:14,490 -that first meeting is the thing -that pops into my mind. - -170 -00:09:14,580 --> 00:09:16,429 -When I think of Virtual Coffee -last year and - -171 -00:09:16,429 --> 00:09:22,620 -Hacktoberfest, what about you? -Oh, I was trying to think - -172 -00:09:20,070 --> 00:09:22,620 -of a Keka that's awful. - -173 -00:09:23,279 --> 00:09:25,230 -Kirk: You can just, you can just -go Kirk. - -174 -00:09:27,004 --> 00:09:27,125 -Bekah: Yeah. - -175 -00:09:27,629 --> 00:09:32,220 -Kirk: Yeah, last- last -Hacktoberfest, I mean, it - -176 -00:09:32,220 --> 00:09:37,399 -was a lot of firsts for me. I- I -like, I think a lot - -177 -00:09:34,379 --> 00:09:40,409 -of people don't know this. My -very first like open - -178 -00:09:37,409 --> 00:09:42,470 -source pull requests was just a -couple months before. - -179 -00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:47,370 -On the self-defined project run -by Tatyana Mack, - -180 -00:09:47,399 --> 00:09:55,529 -who was super amazing. But, I -feel like I had - -181 -00:09:48,929 --> 00:09:58,710 -spent a long time not doing like -anything coding or - -182 -00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:00,960 -tech related on the side. Just -like, especially when - -183 -00:09:58,799 --> 00:10:06,179 -I've been working by myself. and -Hacktoberfest was I sort - -184 -00:10:01,769 --> 00:10:08,039 -of my first opportunity to start -doing stuff with other people. - -185 -00:10:08,100 --> 00:10:12,000 -I was also my first time. -hosting an open - -186 -00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,669 -source project. My first time, -like teaching - -187 -00:10:12,029 --> 00:10:17,039 -other people, like formally like -Elm and getting into - -188 -00:10:14,669 --> 00:10:23,700 -functional programming. I, in a -similar fashion to Dan - -189 -00:10:18,509 --> 00:10:27,600 -May have gone a little overboard -with my- my piece of it, writing - -190 -00:10:24,059 --> 00:10:32,419 -way too much documentation. but -it- it felt really - -191 -00:10:28,649 --> 00:10:36,590 -good to kind of like apply, you -know, my, thoughts to try and - -192 -00:10:32,509 --> 00:10:43,184 -make something good for people. -And I think it was just - -193 -00:10:37,455 --> 00:10:45,794 -really- really fun and -empowering and validating to - -194 -00:10:43,245 --> 00:10:50,445 -see so many people say like this -was my first PR ever, Right. - -195 -00:10:50,445 --> 00:10:52,784 -And like the fact that we can -get that for some people - -196 -00:10:52,784 --> 00:10:54,674 -and they could have a good -experience with it and not a - -197 -00:10:54,674 --> 00:10:58,304 -painful experience with it. That -felt super good. - -198 -00:10:58,725 --> 00:11:01,394 -And I'm super pumped for doing -that again. - -199 -00:11:01,794 --> 00:11:05,654 -Dan: Yeah, I- I learned that, -Kirk, I mean, yeah, - -200 -00:11:05,684 --> 00:11:08,414 -Kirk- Kirk did a ton of work -getting our, open-source - -201 -00:11:08,414 --> 00:11:11,235 -stuff set up and, putting some -guidelines in place. - -202 -00:11:11,235 --> 00:11:13,904 -And I don't know, I learned a -lot, we're working - -203 -00:11:13,904 --> 00:11:16,365 -with Kirk on that too. that was -really cool. - -204 -00:11:17,115 --> 00:11:18,195 -Bekah, what about you? - -205 -00:11:19,424 --> 00:11:22,154 -Bekah: Yeah, I think, you know, -it's- it all comes - -206 -00:11:22,154 --> 00:11:25,274 -down to the people, right? It -was such a big - -207 -00:11:23,205 --> 00:11:31,024 -learning experience. I feel -like. I learned so much in the - -208 -00:11:26,434 --> 00:11:34,924 -month prep and the month of -doing it, that it- it - -209 -00:11:31,024 --> 00:11:36,125 -was like an intense amount of -learning that happened. - -210 -00:11:36,125 --> 00:11:37,894 -I was so exhausted afterwards, -but - -211 -00:11:38,284 --> 00:11:41,404 -it was so great to be able to -work with other people - -212 -00:11:41,404 --> 00:11:43,774 -and kind of learn about the -deliberate process - -213 -00:11:43,774 --> 00:11:47,615 -that goes into documenting -things and creating issues. - -214 -00:11:47,615 --> 00:11:50,095 -And the difference between -working on your. - -215 -00:11:50,779 --> 00:11:55,009 -Own open source project and then -having people work on it- it - -216 -00:11:55,450 --> 00:11:57,645 -was, you know, I learned a lot -in working on my postpartum - -217 -00:11:57,645 --> 00:11:59,840 -wellness app - -218 -00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,019 -with members of the community -and working through issues and - -219 -00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:05,150 -Learning how to write issues, -but then also, know, pairing up - -220 -00:12:05,150 --> 00:12:06,710 -with - -221 -00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:10,309 -them and talking through things -and hearing their stories and - -222 -00:12:10,309 --> 00:12:14,870 -their connection to, know, both -the code, but also the, - -223 -00:12:14,899 --> 00:12:19,009 -topic that we were working on. -It just became - -224 -00:12:16,490 --> 00:12:22,325 -something that couldn't. I would -have never imagined - -225 -00:12:19,715 --> 00:12:24,335 -that it would be that special -and meaningful to me. - -226 -00:12:24,335 --> 00:12:27,424 -So, you know, I really just love -that. - -227 -00:12:28,085 --> 00:12:30,485 -like we all just grew like -really close together - -228 -00:12:30,514 --> 00:12:32,225 -in that experience. - -229 -00:12:32,692 --> 00:12:36,562 -Dan: Yeah, totally. I mean, I -agree. - -230 -00:12:37,403 --> 00:12:44,013 -We- we talk a lot about. That -the Hacktoberfest last - -231 -00:12:41,702 --> 00:12:47,673 -year was- was sort of where -Virtual Coffee became, you - -232 -00:12:44,013 --> 00:12:50,822 -know, more of a, I dunno, I -dunno what, the more of a - -233 -00:12:49,052 --> 00:12:51,302 -thing, you know what I mean? - -234 -00:12:52,118 --> 00:12:52,298 -Bekah: Like solidified that's -not the right word - -235 -00:12:52,503 --> 00:12:53,133 -Dan: than just, - -236 -00:12:53,238 --> 00:12:53,307 -Bekah: know. - -237 -00:12:53,493 --> 00:12:57,212 -Dan: yeah, solidified I dunno, -sort of a mission or something. - -238 -00:12:57,212 --> 00:13:00,722 -I don't- I don't know, but, -yeah, know. - -239 -00:13:00,732 --> 00:13:01,322 -It was a lot of fun. - -240 -00:13:02,832 --> 00:13:07,416 -Kirk: Yeah. I think before, -virtual Coffee - -241 -00:13:03,163 --> 00:13:12,485 -was, you know, we, we definitely -sort of established the space - -242 -00:13:07,416 --> 00:13:16,235 -and, you know, we were- we were -having fun together and - -243 -00:13:12,485 --> 00:13:20,436 -we were definitely like forming -those like good and healthy - -244 -00:13:16,235 --> 00:13:24,816 -connections and relationships -that I feel like Hacktoberfest - -245 -00:13:21,395 --> 00:13:30,066 -was, when we sort of like saw -the opportunity to do a lot - -246 -00:13:25,596 --> 00:13:30,725 -of good in the tech space. Like - -247 -00:13:30,770 --> 00:13:30,831 -Bekah: Yeah. - -248 -00:13:31,296 --> 00:13:33,456 -Kirk: Realizing some of the big -gaps And then like, you - -249 -00:13:33,456 --> 00:13:36,245 -know, also like feeling -empowered to change them. Right. - -250 -00:13:36,245 --> 00:13:38,975 -Because if all started with that -question of, we all want - -251 -00:13:38,975 --> 00:13:40,895 -to do something for open source, -we all have this feeling like, - -252 -00:13:40,895 --> 00:13:43,100 -why does that ever feel good? -No. Why do people have so many, - -253 -00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:45,305 -so. - -254 -00:13:45,306 --> 00:13:47,615 -much trouble with this? Why -other people find - -255 -00:13:46,025 --> 00:13:49,145 -it so intimidating? we tried to -solve it. - -256 -00:13:49,176 --> 00:13:51,816 -And, you know, once we did that, -we sort of get on a - -257 -00:13:51,816 --> 00:13:54,285 -roll with the next month and the -month after that - -258 -00:13:54,285 --> 00:14:02,166 -of, let's keep trying to. Like -do these things verses just - -259 -00:13:56,946 --> 00:14:03,186 -like being together or both at -the same time in that. - -260 -00:14:03,620 --> 00:14:06,379 -Bekah: Yeah. There's so many -people - -261 -00:14:03,769 --> 00:14:07,370 -that suggest getting into open -source. - -262 -00:14:07,899 --> 00:14:11,080 -If you're new or you're getting -into the industry, - -263 -00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,279 -and I've always found that -that's not necessarily the - -264 -00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:19,929 -best advice because open source -projects are open to - -265 -00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,539 -new and entry-level people, some -of them are welcoming - -266 -00:14:22,539 --> 00:14:26,529 -and some of them aren't. And so -what ends up happening - -267 -00:14:23,679 --> 00:14:29,929 -is it can be a really isolating -experience and - -268 -00:14:26,620 --> 00:14:32,664 -one that doesn't leave you. -Well, with, a good taste in - -269 -00:14:30,445 --> 00:14:34,764 -your mouth, like, oh yeah. I -want to continue to be - -270 -00:14:32,664 --> 00:14:37,014 -part of this community. because -there can - -271 -00:14:35,154 --> 00:14:38,274 -be some really bad experiences -out there. - -272 -00:14:38,605 --> 00:14:40,554 -And I think, you know, that -really. - -273 -00:14:41,269 --> 00:14:44,899 -Stands out to me, as everybody -talked about - -274 -00:14:45,049 --> 00:14:48,620 -how great it was to be doing -this thing together. - -275 -00:14:48,649 --> 00:14:51,320 -People who had been in tech for -years, who had not done it - -276 -00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,539 -before doing it for the first -time, because it was part of a - -277 -00:14:53,539 --> 00:14:55,758 -community - -278 -00:14:55,789 --> 00:15:00,500 -and it was a sense of belonging. -And there is a greater - -279 -00:14:58,519 --> 00:15:03,169 -purpose when you're doing it -with other people that - -280 -00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:06,500 -you trust around you. it, you -know, it allows - -281 -00:15:03,769 --> 00:15:10,399 -you to grow and new ways. and so -I think, you - -282 -00:15:07,460 --> 00:15:13,759 -know, bringing that into what -we're doing this year makes - -283 -00:15:10,399 --> 00:15:17,870 -it even more exciting and more -purposeful because we - -284 -00:15:13,759 --> 00:15:22,039 -know that this has happened once -before and we have - -285 -00:15:17,870 --> 00:15:25,490 -grown a ton since last year. so -this year, it it's really - -286 -00:15:22,549 --> 00:15:28,100 -exciting to kind of build off of -what we've done. - -287 -00:15:28,190 --> 00:15:30,149 -Dan, do you want to kind of talk -about what our - -288 -00:15:30,149 --> 00:15:31,289 -plans are heading into this ? - -289 -00:15:32,955 --> 00:15:38,125 -Dan: Yeah, absolutely. So -Digital Ocean, you know, - -290 -00:15:34,034 --> 00:15:40,575 -has been running Hacktoberfest -and they, so they coined - -291 -00:15:38,144 --> 00:15:41,924 -the term Preptember, right. for -September. - -292 -00:15:41,924 --> 00:15:44,865 -And the idea there for in -Digital Ocean's mind - -293 -00:15:44,865 --> 00:15:46,455 -is Preptember is for -maintainers, right? - -294 -00:15:46,455 --> 00:15:49,875 -So Preptember is get, get your -repositories ready for. - -295 -00:15:49,904 --> 00:15:55,710 -People to contribute. Right. And -they have a lot of, - -296 -00:15:53,669 --> 00:16:00,360 -they have a lot of good, -resources out there for things - -297 -00:15:55,769 --> 00:16:01,980 -like, you know, creating issues -and adding, contributing - -298 -00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,259 -guides, stuff like that. And so -that was, you - -299 -00:16:02,460 --> 00:16:06,419 -know, we're, we're, we're going -to also piggyback - -300 -00:16:04,259 --> 00:16:09,990 -on that a little bit. We want to -help maintainers, - -301 -00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:13,200 -Get things ready. We- we, I feel -like we have - -302 -00:16:09,990 --> 00:16:16,470 -done a pretty good job on, in -our own internal stuff - -303 -00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:19,230 -of adding a lot of the community -health things that - -304 -00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:21,370 -you want to see a lot of the. -Some of the organizational - -305 -00:16:19,870 --> 00:16:21,970 -stuff, things that we want to -see. - -306 -00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,289 -And so we can use that, some of -that as a guide and, - -307 -00:16:26,830 --> 00:16:30,460 -Provide some help for both, -existing maintainers - -308 -00:16:30,460 --> 00:16:33,039 -that want to sort of just make -sure they're checking all the - -309 -00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:36,580 -boxes and, anybody who wants to -create a new open - -310 -00:16:36,580 --> 00:16:41,860 -source project to figure out. -You know what things to do, - -311 -00:16:39,789 --> 00:16:44,169 -what things to hit, when, when -you're creating a project - -312 -00:16:41,860 --> 00:16:47,950 -so that you don't end up with -the random bits of code, the - -313 -00:16:44,860 --> 00:16:49,539 -default, README with, you know, -just a header and that's it. - -314 -00:16:49,539 --> 00:16:51,669 -Right. so someone, somebody who -comes to contribute, - -315 -00:16:52,029 --> 00:16:57,190 -They can help. And then the, for -us, for - -316 -00:16:53,470 --> 00:17:00,639 -Virtual Coffee, we will also -want it to have something this - -317 -00:16:57,190 --> 00:17:03,610 -month for, our members who may -you know, who aren't - -318 -00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:07,525 -maintainers of open-source -projects and, The other - -319 -00:17:03,610 --> 00:17:11,065 -thing we thought about was -creating a, I don't know, a - -320 -00:17:08,125 --> 00:17:14,035 -challenge, you know, using our -mental challenge set - -321 -00:17:11,065 --> 00:17:16,404 -up and, helping people learn how -to create good - -322 -00:17:14,125 --> 00:17:19,825 -issues for repositories, because -I personally feel - -323 -00:17:16,404 --> 00:17:21,805 -like that is one of the, like, -that is actually one of the - -324 -00:17:19,884 --> 00:17:24,565 -strongest things you can do to -contribute, especially to - -325 -00:17:21,835 --> 00:17:27,714 -big projects, even the little -projects, writing an issue. - -326 -00:17:27,775 --> 00:17:31,525 -You know, I don't know if you -find something. - -327 -00:17:32,394 --> 00:17:35,365 -It he's either wrong or you'd -like to, help improve - -328 -00:17:35,365 --> 00:17:40,704 -or- or everything like that. -every, almost every - -329 -00:17:37,434 --> 00:17:42,414 -maintainer will prefer you to -create an issue first. Right. - -330 -00:17:42,474 --> 00:17:46,704 -And that way the maintainers can -process them and, - -331 -00:17:46,704 --> 00:17:50,605 -you know, check and see. but -also, you know, if - -332 -00:17:48,444 --> 00:17:52,375 -you see something that's wrong, -lots of times. Okay. - -333 -00:17:52,375 --> 00:17:53,575 -So does it happen personally? -Right? - -334 -00:17:53,605 --> 00:17:56,005 -I have, I've been trying to -install a package or something. - -335 -00:17:56,664 --> 00:18:01,519 -I follow the, README. It doesn't -work and I. Okay. - -336 -00:18:01,519 --> 00:18:03,309 -I mean, you know, whatever, I'm -busy, I'm pressed - -337 -00:18:03,309 --> 00:18:06,750 -for time or whatever. And, you -know, I just - -338 -00:18:04,269 --> 00:18:10,390 -like, oh, this thing is broken. -And so I just move on, you - -339 -00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:12,190 -know, and, a possibly better -approach would - -340 -00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:15,640 -be to write an issue. Right. But -you can't just say - -341 -00:18:12,970 --> 00:18:17,829 -this is broken and move on. -Cause that's just not as - -342 -00:18:15,700 --> 00:18:18,640 -helpful, you know, like that's -not helpful either. - -343 -00:18:19,269 --> 00:18:22,000 -So that's- that's our other, -we're doing a - -344 -00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,950 -two-pronged Preptember, right? -Right. Some issues for some - -345 -00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:31,644 -repositories and, you know how -to do it well, How to, - -346 -00:18:26,980 --> 00:18:34,825 -you know, both, set up and -create or create, - -347 -00:18:31,694 --> 00:18:37,884 -your open source project with, -with a good, you know, with a - -348 -00:18:34,914 --> 00:18:38,394 -good setup of support, for -maintainers. - -349 -00:18:42,025 --> 00:18:43,555 -so that's Preptember it starts -tomorrow, as of our recording, - -350 -00:18:43,555 --> 00:18:45,085 -it - -351 -00:18:45,085 --> 00:18:48,115 -starts September 1st. So, which -will probably be - -352 -00:18:45,954 --> 00:18:48,115 -when this comes out, actually. - -353 -00:18:50,339 --> 00:18:53,519 -Bekah: Yeah. And, you know, I -think contributors - -354 -00:18:53,519 --> 00:18:57,359 -write issues also does a really -good job of kind of showing. - -355 -00:18:58,255 --> 00:19:01,974 -What it takes to be a maintainer -or what's a useful - -356 -00:19:01,974 --> 00:19:06,744 -way to approach a problem. so, -and I think it helps - -357 -00:19:04,525 --> 00:19:08,184 -to create those clear paths of -communication. - -358 -00:19:09,025 --> 00:19:12,355 -now, Kirk, I know that you did a -lot with maintainers last year. - -359 -00:19:12,355 --> 00:19:14,845 -You're working on a checklist -for maintainers this year. - -360 -00:19:15,174 --> 00:19:17,845 -What are some of the big things -that you think - -361 -00:19:18,414 --> 00:19:22,315 -maintainers should be looking -for as they prepare their - -362 -00:19:22,315 --> 00:19:24,015 -repositories for Hacktoberfest? - -363 -00:19:25,829 --> 00:19:30,240 -Kirk: There's part of me wants -to say - -364 -00:19:30,250 --> 00:19:33,900 -there's quite a bit. And then -another part of - -365 -00:19:31,289 --> 00:19:35,609 -me wants to say it's like less -than people think. - -366 -00:19:36,579 --> 00:19:41,714 -There are some basic like files -that we know usually helped to, - -367 -00:19:41,765 --> 00:19:44,924 -to just have like having the -good README and like knowing - -368 -00:19:44,924 --> 00:19:48,105 -what makes a good README, -contributing, like telling - -369 -00:19:48,105 --> 00:19:51,075 -people, Hey, here's the way you -contribute to this code - -370 -00:19:51,075 --> 00:19:54,585 -base in the way that works for -you as the maintainer, right. - -371 -00:19:54,914 --> 00:19:59,265 -Having a Code of Conduct. So -establishing very early - -372 -00:19:56,174 --> 00:20:02,654 -on the types of behaviors you -expect while interacting with - -373 -00:19:59,265 --> 00:20:03,795 -the code base and interacting -with other people contributing. - -374 -00:20:04,424 --> 00:20:08,244 -As you said, It's all about -communication. - -375 -00:20:09,295 --> 00:20:15,414 -And I think a lot of times -maintainers it's like, we sort - -376 -00:20:15,414 --> 00:20:18,055 -of think of open source in this -very transactional way. - -377 -00:20:18,055 --> 00:20:20,454 -Like I have code base you submit -to code base. - -378 -00:20:20,664 --> 00:20:24,414 -I take something, you know, -it's- it's- it's a team, right? - -379 -00:20:24,414 --> 00:20:26,484 -It's- it's an ad hoc team. It's -a distributed team. - -380 -00:20:26,515 --> 00:20:28,974 -But while that person is trying -to work with your code, they're - -381 -00:20:28,974 --> 00:20:31,974 -kind of like your teammate. So -in the same way you would. - -382 -00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:35,589 -Keep a teammate- teammate aware -of like, what's going on. - -383 -00:20:35,589 --> 00:20:37,720 -You kind of do the same thing -with, with contributors. - -384 -00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:40,720 -So I usually encourage -maintainers, like, Hey, think - -385 -00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,059 -about the way you want to -interact with this code base. - -386 -00:20:43,450 --> 00:20:46,299 -And just like a lot of it's just -like giving folks a heads up. - -387 -00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:52,210 -I work on this, on the weekends. -So if you submit a pull request, - -388 -00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:55,150 -you know, expect a review by the -weekend, or like, - -389 -00:20:52,210 --> 00:20:57,700 -Hey, sometimes I slip up. So if -you notice it's been a - -390 -00:20:55,210 --> 00:21:00,970 -couple of weeks or a couple of -days with no response, shoot me - -391 -00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:03,190 -a message on the appropriate -channel where you wish - -392 -00:21:00,970 --> 00:21:04,930 -to receive messages about your -open source code base. - -393 -00:21:05,690 --> 00:21:07,660 -So if there are a lot of things -like that, but I don't feel - -394 -00:21:07,660 --> 00:21:13,150 -like we talk about a lot. We -talked about making the - -395 -00:21:09,849 --> 00:21:14,880 -issue or making the PR, I think -those subtleties. - -396 -00:21:15,910 --> 00:21:19,690 -As a maintainer find the way you -want to be interacted - -397 -00:21:19,690 --> 00:21:22,869 -with and make that super clear -for people, - -398 -00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:27,640 -that can be super helpful. then -for your contributors, - -399 -00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:30,250 -then they don't have that burden -of trying to decide if they're - -400 -00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:32,380 -bothering you or frustrating. -And that goes back to - -401 -00:21:30,730 --> 00:21:33,309 -what Dan said about like what's -a good issue. - -402 -00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,240 -You know, a good issue for a -maintainer is something they - -403 -00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,289 -can see and like make decisions -on. Do I need to fix this? - -404 -00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:46,315 -Can I let this person fix it? is -this a big problem that - -405 -00:21:43,525 --> 00:21:48,325 -we need to pair up more on? Can -we break this - -406 -00:21:46,585 --> 00:21:52,615 -into smaller chunks? so, you -know, it's- it's - -407 -00:21:49,285 --> 00:21:54,025 -about like building a healthy -working relationship. - -408 -00:21:54,355 --> 00:21:56,994 -And a lot of that is people -being open, honest with - -409 -00:21:56,994 --> 00:21:59,214 -like where they're at and what -they can accomplish. - -410 -00:21:59,830 --> 00:22:03,530 -Bekah: I really love that idea -of this is your team - -411 -00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,641 -that you're working with. And so -if you're thinking - -412 -00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:10,611 -of, okay, now you have all of -these brand new - -413 -00:22:07,671 --> 00:22:12,141 -teammates who are going to be -working on your repository. - -414 -00:22:12,530 --> 00:22:15,080 -How do you onboard them all at -once? Right. - -415 -00:22:15,631 --> 00:22:17,941 -It- it starts there, you know, -what the clear - -416 -00:22:17,941 --> 00:22:20,550 -paths of communication and do -you lay that out? - -417 -00:22:20,550 --> 00:22:23,730 -How do you demonstrate that you -are a friendly - -418 -00:22:23,730 --> 00:22:27,090 -repository for people to come -and work on things? - -419 -00:22:27,570 --> 00:22:32,221 -I talked to, a maintainer of a -really large project - -420 -00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:40,320 -a couple of months ago. one of -the challenges that he - -421 -00:22:35,161 --> 00:22:46,086 -said was, so hard to find people -to continue being maintainers - -422 -00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:47,615 -for the project because He Was -self-described as older. - -423 -00:22:47,645 --> 00:22:50,375 -And he said the other -maintainers are older and - -424 -00:22:50,375 --> 00:22:54,576 -they could really use, new -people to take it over. - -425 -00:22:55,536 --> 00:22:57,666 -But it's a catch 22 almost -because so many of the - -426 -00:22:57,666 --> 00:22:59,796 -maintainers - -427 -00:22:59,796 --> 00:23:03,695 -don't want to spend the time to -work with new contributors. - -428 -00:23:04,236 --> 00:23:07,625 -And ultimately those would be -the perfect candidates once they - -429 -00:23:07,625 --> 00:23:09,935 -understood the repository and -how to work through - -430 -00:23:09,935 --> 00:23:13,885 -things, ot take it over for a -while. and I think. - -431 -00:23:14,506 --> 00:23:17,296 -You know, going back to what -we're doing and making - -432 -00:23:17,296 --> 00:23:21,256 -sure that we, work with all of -our members at all - -433 -00:23:21,256 --> 00:23:27,405 -different levels and stages. -Like that's the investment that - -434 -00:23:22,996 --> 00:23:29,625 -we put into, these repositories. -We- we make sure that - -435 -00:23:27,405 --> 00:23:32,476 -people have mentors. We make -sure that there are - -436 -00:23:29,625 --> 00:23:36,346 -repositories that are friendly -to them and that these - -437 -00:23:32,476 --> 00:23:40,965 -it's about developing the -relationships that go and create - -438 -00:23:36,346 --> 00:23:42,165 -community around your project. -So you can sustain and grow. - -439 -00:23:42,875 --> 00:23:46,317 -Dan: Yeah, I love that. And -like, that's- that's - -440 -00:23:44,194 --> 00:23:47,607 -one of the support things that -we- we try to do too. - -441 -00:23:47,657 --> 00:23:49,798 -And this stuff that we're -talking about is time consuming - -442 -00:23:49,798 --> 00:23:54,508 -from a maintainers perspective, -you know, and there are a lot - -443 -00:23:54,508 --> 00:23:56,907 -of projects out there where, I -feel like there are - -444 -00:23:56,907 --> 00:23:59,067 -people that would be open to -country contributions, you - -445 -00:23:59,067 --> 00:24:02,907 -know, maybe haven't spelled out -every single thing that - -446 -00:24:02,907 --> 00:24:06,268 -they could or whatever. And one -of the things that - -447 -00:24:03,748 --> 00:24:07,377 -we can do at like, that we do- -do as a community is. - -448 -00:24:08,288 --> 00:24:10,807 -Is maybe provide support for our -contributors to - -449 -00:24:10,837 --> 00:24:14,647 -navigate, you know, different- -different areas of repositories - -450 -00:24:14,647 --> 00:24:18,667 -and- and what's to you. Cause -none of them are - -451 -00:24:15,367 --> 00:24:21,817 -ever going to be perfect. Right? -no- no project is going - -452 -00:24:19,057 --> 00:24:26,978 -to have everything laid out. -some will get close, you - -453 -00:24:21,877 --> 00:24:28,928 -know, but, anyway, that that's -like one of the other - -454 -00:24:26,978 --> 00:24:30,458 -things that we do once, like -once Hacktoberfest starts is. - -455 -00:24:31,903 --> 00:24:34,782 -Is provide support and -mentorship in some time, you - -456 -00:24:34,782 --> 00:24:37,722 -know, in some places for people, -format for our members to - -457 -00:24:38,143 --> 00:24:40,782 -kind of work through some of the -social, you know, some of - -458 -00:24:40,782 --> 00:24:44,712 -the like social anxiety that -can, that can, that can happen. - -459 -00:24:44,742 --> 00:24:47,833 -When, you know, when -contributing to open source. - -460 -00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:52,454 -Kirk: Yeah. I think you touched -on something - -461 -00:24:48,845 --> 00:24:59,865 -very important that are just -like how scary it is to offer, - -462 -00:24:52,454 --> 00:25:02,835 -to help someone on project that -like, you feel like, oh, I - -463 -00:24:59,865 --> 00:25:04,365 -don't particularly understand. -And it's all this code. - -464 -00:25:04,904 --> 00:25:08,565 -And especially if you're an -early career developer, like, - -465 -00:25:08,595 --> 00:25:11,625 -oh, I'm just, I just got here. -I'm going to mess something up. - -466 -00:25:12,105 --> 00:25:16,184 -There's so many. It's something -that we - -467 -00:25:13,424 --> 00:25:20,884 -don't really do in other -circumstances, there's a lot - -468 -00:25:16,184 --> 00:25:24,815 -of anxiety around it and sort of -anything you can do too, - -469 -00:25:20,884 --> 00:25:30,154 -as a maintainer to make people -feel more welcome is- is like - -470 -00:25:24,815 --> 00:25:33,125 -worth it, know, and getting back -to Preptember, like you said, - -471 -00:25:30,154 --> 00:25:35,855 -like this- this year, we want it -to not just be Preptember - -472 -00:25:33,125 --> 00:25:39,275 -for maintainers, but also -Preptember for contributors, - -473 -00:25:35,855 --> 00:25:42,065 -you know, we're- we're going to -be doing, you know, a couple of - -474 -00:25:39,275 --> 00:25:46,964 -talks in a couple of sessions. -You know, to show people what - -475 -00:25:42,914 --> 00:25:51,555 -contribution looks like, but -also to let them see like not - -476 -00:25:46,964 --> 00:25:55,035 -scary it is and how approachable -it can be, you know, just - -477 -00:25:51,615 --> 00:25:58,275 -tanything we can do to kind of -like get through those layers of - -478 -00:25:55,755 --> 00:26:00,525 -anxiety and get to that place -where it's like, no, they, - -479 -00:25:58,275 --> 00:26:01,515 -they want me to be here. They -want me to help. - -480 -00:26:01,815 --> 00:26:06,194 -They're okay with me learning. -They're willing to sort of, - -481 -00:26:03,194 --> 00:26:10,065 -you know, guide them along. and -that's when I think you - -482 -00:26:06,825 --> 00:26:11,625 -get to see people really- really -shine and like really enjoy. - -483 -00:26:12,690 --> 00:26:15,720 -Making contributions to group -projects. - -484 -00:26:16,276 --> 00:26:18,675 -Dan: So you mentioned some -stuff, some- some events I - -485 -00:26:18,675 --> 00:26:20,355 -just wanted to kind of run -through a couple of the ones - -486 -00:26:20,355 --> 00:26:23,465 -that we have for September. if -that's all - -487 -00:26:21,665 --> 00:26:27,846 -right, real quick. September -3rd, which is - -488 -00:26:24,425 --> 00:26:32,375 -this Friday, we, I will be doing -an event, a lunch - -489 -00:26:27,846 --> 00:26:33,395 -and learn event at noon eastern -and, it's just an open. - -490 -00:26:33,425 --> 00:26:35,855 -So what's called the Open Source -Project Walkthrough. - -491 -00:26:36,846 --> 00:26:40,056 -And this just sort of a tour, -not really a deep - -492 -00:26:40,506 --> 00:26:43,736 -dive into any contr- you know, -contributing, any- any, - -493 -00:26:43,865 --> 00:26:45,816 -anything as far as like pull -requests or anything like that. - -494 -00:26:45,816 --> 00:26:49,296 -But, just a tour of what a, what -a repository looks like. - -495 -00:26:49,296 --> 00:26:51,006 -What are all the different -pieces that happen? - -496 -00:26:51,066 --> 00:26:54,726 -What it looks like from the -maintainers perspective, - -497 -00:26:54,786 --> 00:27:00,336 -On a project and, We'll just -kind wander around. - -498 -00:27:00,556 --> 00:27:03,665 -It's not going to be a, it's not -going to be super - -499 -00:27:03,665 --> 00:27:07,036 -in depth, but it'll be kind of -fun and we'll, know, - -500 -00:27:07,036 --> 00:27:08,796 -we'll hang out and ask some -questions and stuff like that. - -501 -00:27:09,336 --> 00:27:12,455 -And so that's me, that's Friday, -September - -502 -00:27:12,455 --> 00:27:17,046 -17th is a lunch and learn, how -to create an open - -503 -00:27:17,046 --> 00:27:22,415 -source or a repository. And so -this is Kirk, at - -504 -00:27:18,756 --> 00:27:26,375 -September 17th at noon Eastern. -And this is sort of geared - -505 -00:27:23,016 --> 00:27:28,461 -towards maintainers or. People -who'd like - -506 -00:27:27,141 --> 00:27:30,500 -to be maintainers. kind of, and -this is kind - -507 -00:27:29,030 --> 00:27:31,250 -of what we touched about and -touched on a couple of times. - -508 -00:27:31,250 --> 00:27:33,111 -What kinds of things should we -look at when we're, when - -509 -00:27:33,111 --> 00:27:35,300 -we're- we're talking, thinking -about when creating an open - -510 -00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:38,361 -source project, because it's not -just the code. - -511 -00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,790 -Like we've talked about a bunch -of times, right? - -512 -00:27:40,790 --> 00:27:44,361 -It's not just the code. there's -a lot of things - -513 -00:27:41,961 --> 00:27:47,750 -we can do to help, to help, -potential contributors actually - -514 -00:27:44,451 --> 00:27:50,631 -contribute to your project. So -that is the 17th. - -515 -00:27:50,721 --> 00:27:57,421 -And then am what we got the -24th. which is the last Friday - -516 -00:27:54,601 --> 00:28:00,931 -I feel like probably in -September is, this is - -517 -00:27:57,421 --> 00:28:04,530 -our intro to Hacktoberfest and, -and open-source - -518 -00:28:00,931 --> 00:28:06,990 -contributions, I think hosted by -Bekah but I'm pretty sure - -519 -00:28:04,530 --> 00:28:09,661 -we'll- we'll, I'll be there. and -this is a general - -520 -00:28:07,050 --> 00:28:13,155 -Hacktoberfest, you know, Jumping -into everything event. - -521 -00:28:13,215 --> 00:28:16,336 -I guess I should have probably -asked if Kirk, if you - -522 -00:28:16,336 --> 00:28:20,806 -had anything to say about your- -your event, just - -523 -00:28:18,375 --> 00:28:23,586 -realized I was about to do -either of you would - -524 -00:28:20,806 --> 00:28:24,496 -like to, you know, expand more -on what I said. - -525 -00:28:24,615 --> 00:28:27,855 -but those, the events coming up, -this month, - -526 -00:28:28,455 --> 00:28:29,115 -I'm excited about it. - -527 -00:28:30,471 --> 00:28:33,891 -Kirk: I think you covered the -basis. - -528 -00:28:33,921 --> 00:28:36,290 -It's- it's going to be much what -it says. - -529 -00:28:36,830 --> 00:28:40,941 -We're going to start from -scratch with a, Hey, I have - -530 -00:28:40,941 --> 00:28:45,270 -something locally and I want to -get it up on GitHub. - -531 -00:28:45,391 --> 00:28:48,351 -I want it to be open source and -I want to do - -532 -00:28:48,351 --> 00:28:50,931 -the necessary things that people -know that they can - -533 -00:28:49,401 --> 00:28:54,185 -come here and work here. We will -cover the required docs. - -534 -00:28:54,246 --> 00:28:57,695 -We'll- we'll get some helpful, -get up features for making that - -535 -00:28:57,695 --> 00:29:00,276 -process easier because they have -invested a lot of resources - -536 -00:29:00,756 --> 00:29:05,645 -into that type of thing. we'll -cover a few things - -537 -00:29:02,736 --> 00:29:08,736 -that GitHub doesn't really tell -you about the, you sort - -538 -00:29:05,645 --> 00:29:13,145 -of learn from our work with VC -and just all the other cool - -539 -00:29:08,736 --> 00:29:17,586 -projects in the community. So, I -mean, totally recommended - -540 -00:29:13,625 --> 00:29:18,665 -for anyone who wants to start an -open source project. - -541 -00:29:19,580 --> 00:29:21,621 -Anyone who already has one and -they just want to get like a - -542 -00:29:21,621 --> 00:29:24,951 -refresher on what are the cool -things happening nowadays to - -543 -00:29:24,980 --> 00:29:28,221 -make it engaging, even if you're -a contributor where you just - -544 -00:29:28,221 --> 00:29:30,320 -want to see like, Hey, like what -actually goes into this? - -545 -00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,351 -I might want to do this next -year or a couple - -546 -00:29:32,371 --> 00:29:37,280 -months down the line. I think -all, all three - -547 -00:29:33,681 --> 00:29:39,951 -of our events will be super -useful for anyone at any - -548 -00:29:40,195 --> 00:29:40,256 -Bekah: Yeah. - -549 -00:29:40,401 --> 00:29:42,351 -Kirk: part of the OSS. - -550 -00:29:44,451 --> 00:29:47,391 -Bekah: Yeah, and I always -appreciate everybody coming. - -551 -00:29:47,391 --> 00:29:50,540 -If somebody is very experienced -and has done it before and - -552 -00:29:50,570 --> 00:29:53,931 -has things to offer and can -answer questions too, you know, - -553 -00:29:53,931 --> 00:29:56,901 -it's great to have a variety of -voices from the community - -554 -00:29:56,901 --> 00:30:00,050 -who can talk about the things -and, you know, we'll start - -555 -00:30:00,050 --> 00:30:03,800 -with, you know, what is -HacktoberFest, because you - -556 -00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,408 -know, I've met plenty of people -who've been in tech for a long - -557 -00:30:05,408 --> 00:30:07,016 -time - -558 -00:30:07,046 --> 00:30:10,165 -and they're not familiar with -Hactoberfest and it's okay. - -559 -00:30:10,165 --> 00:30:12,415 -It just depends on, you know, -the- the circles - -560 -00:30:12,415 --> 00:30:15,986 -that you hang around. Right. to -have exposure to that. - -561 -00:30:16,316 --> 00:30:19,135 -I think I, I was just in the -like, free t-shirt. - -562 -00:30:19,820 --> 00:30:23,000 -Groups everywhere. And I was -like, you go. - -563 -00:30:24,381 --> 00:30:29,391 -so we'll get you set up, learn -how to, sign up for that. - -564 -00:30:29,391 --> 00:30:33,230 -Learn about how to find -repositories that that eligible - -565 -00:30:33,230 --> 00:30:38,691 -for Hacktoberfest and talk -through what it's like to work - -566 -00:30:38,691 --> 00:30:43,971 -your way through an issue about, -Creating a pull request - -567 -00:30:43,971 --> 00:30:47,421 -and- and some tips for doing -that or asking questions along - -568 -00:30:47,421 --> 00:30:50,990 -the way, but we'll definitely -prioritize answering anyone's - -569 -00:30:50,990 --> 00:30:56,260 -questions at that point. just to -make sure that - -570 -00:30:52,611 --> 00:30:58,721 -everybody feels comfortable and -everyone feels comfortable - -571 -00:30:56,260 --> 00:31:00,461 -asking whatever questions they -feel like asking. Right. - -572 -00:31:00,461 --> 00:31:04,391 -It's okay to ask all of the -questions because - -573 -00:31:04,391 --> 00:31:06,221 -that's what we're here for. -We're here to answer them. - -574 -00:31:08,526 --> 00:31:10,086 -Dan: Plus, I think we all like -talking about it. - -575 -00:31:10,685 --> 00:31:13,415 -I always want people to ask -questions because it's just fun. - -576 -00:31:13,476 --> 00:31:15,695 -It's just fun to talk about all -this stuff for me, you know? - -577 -00:31:15,695 --> 00:31:21,076 -And, it's a. I like it can be -anxiety inducing. - -578 -00:31:21,076 --> 00:31:23,655 -It was, it was for me, certainly -like getting- getting - -579 -00:31:23,655 --> 00:31:27,826 -started and, the, you know, -getting started with open - -580 -00:31:27,826 --> 00:31:30,746 -source, especially, especially -contributing to like, to - -581 -00:31:30,846 --> 00:31:33,405 -projects of people who you don't -know the people, right. - -582 -00:31:33,405 --> 00:31:34,935 -You don't know the maintainers -and everything. - -583 -00:31:34,996 --> 00:31:39,046 -It doesn't have to be at, I -think the, me, I think - -584 -00:31:39,046 --> 00:31:42,846 -the way that you get over it. -The best way to get over - -585 -00:31:40,625 --> 00:31:46,175 -that anxiety is to, is to just -kind of get started, you - -586 -00:31:42,846 --> 00:31:47,496 -know, ask questions, you know, -all of that stuff. - -587 -00:31:47,526 --> 00:31:49,445 -And then, and then, and then we -can kind of dive in. - -588 -00:31:49,445 --> 00:31:51,905 -And so that's why that's- that's -gonna be our process - -589 -00:31:51,905 --> 00:31:55,056 -again this year, you know? well -this event - -590 -00:31:52,895 --> 00:31:58,865 -should be fun. like on the 24th, -that Beckha - -591 -00:31:55,145 --> 00:32:02,885 -is running and kind of hang out -and then, Going into October - -592 -00:31:58,895 --> 00:32:05,165 -for Virtual Coffee, you know, -we'll- we'll- we'll have some, - -593 -00:32:02,885 --> 00:32:08,165 -we'll have some more specific -events, set up and some more - -594 -00:32:05,165 --> 00:32:07,535 -things kind of, kind of go in -that we'll announce little bit - -595 -00:32:07,535 --> 00:32:09,905 -later. - -596 -00:32:09,935 --> 00:32:12,695 -In September, I guess, - -597 -00:32:13,171 --> 00:32:13,290 -Bekah: Yeah. - -598 -00:32:13,296 --> 00:32:14,375 -Dan: once we figured out what -they all are. - -599 -00:32:15,211 --> 00:32:17,310 -Bekah: I think one of the cool -things too, about how - -600 -00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:20,520 -much we've grown in the last -year is that we have a lot - -601 -00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,780 -more maintainers with us this -year than we did last year. - -602 -00:32:25,351 --> 00:32:28,411 -who have their own projects or -who have jobs at open - -603 -00:32:28,411 --> 00:32:31,320 -source, I'm working on open -source projects. - -604 -00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,290 -And so it's been great to kind -of see that evolution of like, - -605 -00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,681 -Oh, look, they participated last -year and got their first PRS. - -606 -00:32:37,711 --> 00:32:43,040 -And now they're like leading on, -on this. Open source project - -607 -00:32:41,510 --> 00:32:44,631 -in their company. And, you know, -they're, they - -608 -00:32:44,631 --> 00:32:47,810 -bring with them that amazing -experience of like knowing - -609 -00:32:47,810 --> 00:32:51,800 -what that feels like and being -able to help new people. - -610 -00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,951 -And there's a lot of, great -projects and - -611 -00:32:54,951 --> 00:32:57,171 -also really meaningful projects -out there too. - -612 -00:32:57,171 --> 00:33:01,191 -So going to be really exciting -to see how much the - -613 -00:33:01,191 --> 00:33:02,901 -variety has grown as well. - -614 -00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:07,211 -Dan: Yeah, absolutely. That's a -great point. and. - -615 -00:33:08,826 --> 00:33:11,526 -Well, I guess adding onto that, -one of that, another thing that - -616 -00:33:11,526 --> 00:33:15,635 -we have new this year for us is, -Some- some team, a team - -617 -00:33:15,635 --> 00:33:18,455 -of people that are helping out, -actually run the events - -618 -00:33:18,455 --> 00:33:20,976 -and, you know, run- run these -challenges and stuff like - -619 -00:33:20,976 --> 00:33:24,516 -that to our monthly challenge -team, especially it has - -620 -00:33:24,516 --> 00:33:29,046 -been, has been kicking butt. -I've been helping to get - -621 -00:33:26,256 --> 00:33:32,256 -this rolling in September and, -So I just want to shout - -622 -00:33:29,526 --> 00:33:33,965 -out to, to everybody there too. -because that's - -623 -00:33:32,736 --> 00:33:37,955 -been really cool. It's been cool -to have like a - -624 -00:33:34,056 --> 00:33:41,135 -sort of a larger, I dunno, group -of people to generate - -625 -00:33:37,955 --> 00:33:43,326 -ideas, bounce ideas off of, and, -and you know, everything. - -626 -00:33:43,326 --> 00:33:45,336 -So that's, that's really fun. -I'm excited about that. - -627 -00:33:45,925 --> 00:33:47,246 -Bekah: last year at this time, -we didn't, we hadn't - -628 -00:33:47,246 --> 00:33:49,286 -started monthly challenges that -started in November. - -629 -00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:55,431 -with our blog challenge. So it's -really cool too, to - -630 -00:33:52,371 --> 00:34:02,540 -see like where we've almost made -that full circle of a - -631 -00:33:55,431 --> 00:34:08,201 -year of monthly challenges and -after Hacktoberfest, we will be - -632 -00:34:02,540 --> 00:34:05,985 -cause we have Preptember for -September then next month we're - -633 -00:34:05,985 --> 00:34:09,430 -just going to totally dive into -Hacktoberfest - -634 -00:34:09,431 --> 00:34:11,185 -you having the last coupe months -of having people step up the - -635 -00:34:11,185 --> 00:34:12,939 -game with monthly challenge and- -and - -636 -00:34:12,940 --> 00:34:16,210 -have things thought through has -been, you know, a really great - -637 -00:34:16,210 --> 00:34:21,911 -way to show how much support we -have from the community that - -638 -00:34:21,911 --> 00:34:25,181 -allows us to do extra things and -things that are meaningful. - -639 -00:34:25,181 --> 00:34:28,210 -And, you know, I- I got a -message from one of the members. - -640 -00:34:29,181 --> 00:34:34,161 -Wait today is still August. So -we did healthy - -641 -00:34:30,951 --> 00:34:37,130 -habits for healthy devs. And I -checked in with - -642 -00:34:34,581 --> 00:34:38,030 -one of the members to see how -they were doing. - -643 -00:34:38,030 --> 00:34:40,731 -And they said, well, this -monthly challenge is getting me - -644 -00:34:40,731 --> 00:34:44,090 -through this month because it's -requiring like, deliberately - -645 -00:34:44,090 --> 00:34:49,041 -thinking about my health and how -I can turn off work and how - -646 -00:34:49,041 --> 00:34:56,391 -I can create healthy habits. And -I just thought, you know, - -647 -00:34:51,291 --> 00:35:01,655 -what a wonderful example of how. -The work that our members - -648 -00:34:57,126 --> 00:35:06,485 -provide to support us, goes to -support everybody and - -649 -00:35:02,376 --> 00:35:07,655 -those meaningful moments make it -all worth it. - -650 -00:35:10,496 --> 00:35:17,126 -Kirk: Yeah. I think part of what -makes - -651 -00:35:10,916 --> 00:35:18,775 -this whole experience so good. -It is. - -652 -00:35:19,166 --> 00:35:24,085 -I mean, it's obviously a great -thing to work with to like - -653 -00:35:24,115 --> 00:35:26,490 -provide an experience for other -people. But it's also been a - -654 -00:35:26,490 --> 00:35:28,865 -really - -655 -00:35:26,255 --> 00:35:32,465 -cool to see people who have not -had the experience to - -656 -00:35:28,865 --> 00:35:34,925 -maybe like provide the support -in many ways in this space, - -657 -00:35:32,556 --> 00:35:37,655 -get a chance to do that. You -know, there's, there's so - -658 -00:35:35,405 --> 00:35:41,766 -many folks now in the different -teams we have, sometimes I, - -659 -00:35:37,655 --> 00:35:44,615 -hard for me to keep track of all -the different issues we - -660 -00:35:41,766 --> 00:35:46,596 -have because we have all these -different channels where people - -661 -00:35:44,615 --> 00:35:49,085 -are doing amazing things. -everyone's saying like, oh, - -662 -00:35:47,346 --> 00:35:50,016 -this is the person that would -have done something like this. - -663 -00:35:50,016 --> 00:35:52,465 -And they're doing such amazing -jobs. And. - -664 -00:35:53,255 --> 00:35:56,226 -You know, I feel like a big, a -big part of what I like - -665 -00:35:56,226 --> 00:35:58,865 -about Virtual Coffee is that -like, this is like, this is - -666 -00:35:58,865 --> 00:36:02,945 -no one's job, but also in the -sense that for a lot of - -667 -00:36:02,945 --> 00:36:07,626 -us, it's the first time we were -trying to do something - -668 -00:36:07,806 --> 00:36:11,045 -and all we really had was the -belief that we could do it. - -669 -00:36:11,405 --> 00:36:15,186 -And like the belief that we can -get support if we needed to. - -670 -00:36:15,936 --> 00:36:20,405 -And that to me has been, you -know, super empowering. - -671 -00:36:22,141 --> 00:36:24,286 -Just like Having a space where -you can to help other people and - -672 -00:36:24,286 --> 00:36:26,431 -try - -673 -00:36:26,431 --> 00:36:29,521 -and work with other people and -try and initiative where - -674 -00:36:29,521 --> 00:36:34,411 -you can feel comfortable with -making mistakes and having to - -675 -00:36:34,411 --> 00:36:38,331 -do things over and not having to -be perfect on Zoom or, you know, - -676 -00:36:38,371 --> 00:36:42,990 -just that's, that's hard to find -sometimes in real life land, - -677 -00:36:42,990 --> 00:36:45,990 -like you feel like the work you -have to do everything perfectly. - -678 -00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,320 -sometimes even just like -interpersonal relationships. - -679 -00:36:51,146 --> 00:36:57,615 -That feels really healthy. And -that feels almost like as - -680 -00:36:52,706 --> 00:37:01,036 -important as like who were on -the receiving it, being able - -681 -00:36:57,615 --> 00:37:02,675 -to help people on the giving end -has been really good. - -682 -00:37:02,896 --> 00:37:06,525 -And I mean, the big discovery, -which I guess isn't really - -683 -00:37:06,525 --> 00:37:09,726 -surprising in retrospect because -it like why people want to give - -684 -00:37:09,726 --> 00:37:12,465 -back, they want to help, you -know, our communities here. - -685 -00:37:12,465 --> 00:37:14,505 -Cause it's just like, oh, this -is just a nice space - -686 -00:37:14,505 --> 00:37:17,266 -where I get to help folks out. -And, - -687 -00:37:18,780 --> 00:37:24,869 -Dan: Yeah. I mean, I love that I -was going - -688 -00:37:19,409 --> 00:37:27,389 -to segue into some other stuff, -but do we have any final, - -689 -00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:30,835 -like Hacktoberfest thoughts? -other than. We're excited. - -690 -00:37:31,489 --> 00:37:33,320 -Bekah: Well, I just want to say -too, just looking - -691 -00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,530 -back at how much I've grown -personally in the last year, - -692 -00:37:36,530 --> 00:37:41,889 -learning from everybody. you -know, as we're - -693 -00:37:38,269 --> 00:37:45,639 -approaching this and we're doing -this big event and all - -694 -00:37:41,889 --> 00:37:48,699 -of these things, think last year -I things more in black - -695 -00:37:45,639 --> 00:37:50,320 -and white, like there was -success or there was failure. - -696 -00:37:50,679 --> 00:37:53,619 -And I think this year for me, -it's- it's not ever about that. - -697 -00:37:53,619 --> 00:37:55,780 -It's about the growth. Am I -growing? - -698 -00:37:55,780 --> 00:37:58,269 -You know, what am I doing to -push myself forward and - -699 -00:37:58,269 --> 00:37:59,774 -to support the other people? -think that's just a Testament - -700 -00:37:59,774 --> 00:38:01,279 -to. - -701 -00:38:01,735 --> 00:38:05,695 -The community that's here is -supporting everyone - -702 -00:38:05,695 --> 00:38:08,244 -because it isn't, it- it's not -success or failure. - -703 -00:38:08,244 --> 00:38:12,505 -We're all moving forward. We're -all growing and we're - -704 -00:38:09,534 --> 00:38:13,614 -growing together, and growing in -different ways. - -705 -00:38:13,614 --> 00:38:17,004 -And so I think that, I'm- I'm -very excited that we wrap up - -706 -00:38:17,004 --> 00:38:20,394 -August with - -707 -00:38:20,425 --> 00:38:24,355 -healthy habits for healthy devs, -because it gives a much better - -708 -00:38:24,355 --> 00:38:27,099 -perspective going into some -really, you know, event heavy - -709 -00:38:27,099 --> 00:38:29,843 -months. - -710 -00:38:30,918 --> 00:38:38,047 -Dan: I think that's a good -point. I think you might be sub - -711 -00:38:33,257 --> 00:38:43,527 -tweeting me right now, but I -make my own choices. Yeah. - -712 -00:38:43,527 --> 00:38:47,467 -I- I'll echo that. I mean, it's, -this - -713 -00:38:44,498 --> 00:38:52,117 -community is so great. And the- -the we've sort of - -714 -00:38:47,467 --> 00:38:55,717 -naturally, focused on, on mental -health, I think, - -715 -00:38:52,148 --> 00:38:57,907 -from the beginning, you know, -without- without any, without - -716 -00:38:55,717 --> 00:39:00,628 -any sort of decision, right. It -was a natural thing - -717 -00:38:57,907 --> 00:39:01,967 -because, the people here. Care. - -718 -00:39:02,057 --> 00:39:06,858 -You know, and we see over and -over again, everybody - -719 -00:39:06,858 --> 00:39:09,827 -knows and has experienced I'm -sure, you know, - -720 -00:39:09,827 --> 00:39:12,858 -burnout and, overworking and all -of that stuff. - -721 -00:39:12,887 --> 00:39:18,047 -The fact that our community is a -community of - -722 -00:39:18,047 --> 00:39:20,148 -people who like, who care so -much about each other, that, - -723 -00:39:20,177 --> 00:39:23,148 -you know, giving support for -that, with mental - -724 -00:39:23,148 --> 00:39:25,128 -health just kind of comes -naturally for everybody. - -725 -00:39:25,128 --> 00:39:29,748 -And it, And especially, I- I wan -I want to especially shout - -726 -00:39:29,748 --> 00:39:31,637 -out to Kirk here, because this -is one of the things that, - -727 -00:39:31,637 --> 00:39:34,728 -you know, that he injected into -all of our thought - -728 -00:39:34,728 --> 00:39:40,097 -processes at the beginning. this -is while we were - -729 -00:39:35,927 --> 00:39:42,588 -maybe not practicing it, this, -you know, in this time - -730 -00:39:40,188 --> 00:39:45,588 -of year, maybe September last -year, we were pulling - -731 -00:39:42,588 --> 00:39:48,608 -together a documentation and -resources and the website - -732 -00:39:45,717 --> 00:39:53,273 -for Hacktoberfest and. And -Kirk's, I just love, - -733 -00:39:50,483 --> 00:39:54,222 -I just loved Kirk's thoughts on -all of it. - -734 -00:39:54,222 --> 00:39:56,813 -And, and the, the focus on the -mental health and the - -735 -00:39:56,813 --> 00:39:59,182 -taking a break and the, you -know, all that stuff, it's, - -736 -00:39:59,213 --> 00:40:01,492 -it can be easy to get, even with -volunteer stuff, it can - -737 -00:40:01,492 --> 00:40:05,612 -be easy to get caught up. and, -and everything, - -738 -00:40:02,512 --> 00:40:07,463 -you know, and like Bekah said, -the black and whiteness - -739 -00:40:05,632 --> 00:40:10,697 -of everything, you know, anyway, -the mental health - -740 -00:40:08,088 --> 00:40:12,197 -focus of our, of our, community -is amazing. - -741 -00:40:12,197 --> 00:40:14,838 -And I, never really put it -together like that, but I think - -742 -00:40:14,838 --> 00:40:17,657 -that's a great point that August -was sort of a breather month - -743 -00:40:17,657 --> 00:40:19,547 -that, you know, in a, in a -mental health check-in month. - -744 -00:40:19,637 --> 00:40:23,597 -And I don't know, it's a good, -it's a great thing to - -745 -00:40:23,597 --> 00:40:26,478 -keep in mind, moving forward, -moving forward for of us. - -746 -00:40:27,858 --> 00:40:31,157 -Even if I'm not always going to -be good at doing what's that - -747 -00:40:32,023 --> 00:40:37,152 -Kirk: Why Dan and Bekah not good -at taking breaks? No. - -748 -00:40:37,603 --> 00:40:38,862 -Who would think that. - -749 -00:40:38,963 --> 00:40:39,773 -Bekah: What? Why are you pulling -me into this? - -750 -00:40:40,123 --> 00:40:41,472 -Kirk: You- you would identify -with this? - -751 -00:40:41,503 --> 00:40:46,782 -but don't think you're not here. -This podcast could - -752 -00:40:44,443 --> 00:40:48,373 -be called like people with -letting go issues, - -753 -00:40:49,188 --> 00:40:49,547 -Bekah: Yeah. - -754 -00:40:50,632 --> 00:40:53,932 -Kirk: but it's okay. That's what -we have - -755 -00:40:52,043 --> 00:40:56,452 -The community for to remind us -like it's it's okay. - -756 -00:40:56,597 --> 00:40:57,617 -Bekah: frozen soundtrack. - -757 -00:40:57,889 --> 00:40:58,880 -Kirk: Oh, I still haven't -watched it. - -758 -00:40:59,034 --> 00:40:59,815 -Bekah: You said, let it go. - -759 -00:41:00,860 --> 00:41:04,530 -Kirk: I've never seen Frozen. -Not one or two. - -760 -00:41:05,505 --> 00:41:09,784 -Heard good things. I'll wait for -the live action. - -761 -00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:16,760 -Dan: Yeah. That's all right. so. - -762 -00:41:17,824 --> 00:41:21,965 -I- I think I said at the top -maybe, but this is the - -763 -00:41:21,965 --> 00:41:25,894 -last episode of season three of -our podcast and we're kind - -764 -00:41:25,894 --> 00:41:26,755 -of wrapping up and things. So I -wanted to, before we end - -765 -00:41:27,155 --> 00:41:33,000 -this episode, I dunno, shout out -some- some different things - -766 -00:41:33,755 --> 00:41:37,594 -that have happened over either -the last, you know, during - -767 -00:41:35,764 --> 00:41:39,875 -the last season or the last, -year with Virtual Coffee. - -768 -00:41:40,385 --> 00:41:43,525 -So I guess first the, podcast we - -769 -00:41:43,525 --> 00:41:48,684 -passed 4,000 downloads. but you -know, total for our - -770 -00:41:45,054 --> 00:41:51,235 -podcasts, a little bit ago. And -I just, I think - -771 -00:41:48,804 --> 00:41:53,005 -that's amazing. And I wanted to, -say - -772 -00:41:51,235 --> 00:41:53,846 -thank you to everybody who's -been listening. - -773 -00:41:53,936 --> 00:41:55,646 -And everybody who's joined. - -774 -00:41:55,740 --> 00:41:56,840 -Bekah: Everybody whose come on -and told their story. - -775 -00:41:57,425 --> 00:42:02,235 -Dan: Yes. including Kirk is, - -776 -00:41:58,445 --> 00:42:03,646 -you know, repeat guest, and, -yeah, it's really great. - -777 -00:42:03,646 --> 00:42:05,706 -It's- it's crazy that there's so -many people I've - -778 -00:42:05,715 --> 00:42:08,626 -listened to, to our podcast. I -don't know. - -779 -00:42:08,806 --> 00:42:12,465 -It's hard to really comprehend -4,000 people or - -780 -00:42:12,465 --> 00:42:14,865 -4,000, you know, listens I -guess, or whatever. - -781 -00:42:14,865 --> 00:42:17,655 -But, I just, I dunno, I wanted -to shout that - -782 -00:42:17,655 --> 00:42:18,885 -out and say, thank you. - -783 -00:42:19,766 --> 00:42:22,275 -Kirk: Am I the first person to -repeat on the podcast? - -784 -00:42:22,768 --> 00:42:24,458 -Dan: Yeah- Yeah, for sure. Yeah. - -785 -00:42:24,697 --> 00:42:25,358 -Bekah: co-host - -786 -00:42:25,492 --> 00:42:25,913 -Kirk: I'm the Martin Short - -787 -00:42:25,958 --> 00:42:26,887 -Bekah: or sometimes cohost. - -788 -00:42:28,043 --> 00:42:31,132 -Kirk: the secret co-host only, -you only get access to me if - -789 -00:42:31,132 --> 00:42:33,672 -you listen to enough of it. So -if you're listening - -790 -00:42:33,672 --> 00:42:36,212 -congratulations. - -791 -00:42:37,487 --> 00:42:41,288 -Dan: One thing Kirk said earlier -about, just the - -792 -00:42:41,288 --> 00:42:44,498 -community kind of work together. -Made me think of the - -793 -00:42:42,248 --> 00:42:47,108 -coworking room as well. a -co-working - -794 -00:42:44,557 --> 00:42:51,367 -room for anybody who is -listening, who doesn't - -795 -00:42:48,068 --> 00:42:53,527 -know is a, room it's a slack -channel in a room - -796 -00:42:51,367 --> 00:42:57,248 -in Virtual Coffee, Slack that, -it's basically, - -797 -00:42:53,527 --> 00:43:02,137 -and always on zoom meeting. And -so people can join the - -798 -00:42:57,398 --> 00:43:02,978 -meeting and work together and -hang out together. - -799 -00:43:02,978 --> 00:43:06,458 -Kirk, I think, like you visit -pretty often. Do you want to - -800 -00:43:07,057 --> 00:43:07,268 -come here? - -801 -00:43:07,762 --> 00:43:09,563 -Kirk: I pretty much live in the -co-working room. - -802 -00:43:09,668 --> 00:43:10,117 -Dan: can you, can - -803 -00:43:10,168 --> 00:43:10,288 -Bekah: Yeah. - -804 -00:43:10,358 --> 00:43:11,018 -Dan: Can you talk about it a -little bit? - -805 -00:43:11,152 --> 00:43:13,193 -Kirk: well, I mean, first I -think like the important thing - -806 -00:43:13,193 --> 00:43:16,702 -is to say, shout out to Dan for -making the coworking room. - -807 -00:43:16,762 --> 00:43:18,202 -it, - -808 -00:43:18,307 --> 00:43:20,018 -Dan: I don't know. We're -shouting out other - -809 -00:43:18,547 --> 00:43:20,018 -people in this sector. - -810 -00:43:20,603 --> 00:43:23,663 -Kirk: I, yeah, but like from -the, from the Slack side, - -811 -00:43:23,663 --> 00:43:25,432 -it looks like very simple. You -hit join again. - -812 -00:43:26,108 --> 00:43:29,228 -But I know like you're doing -like several magics to get - -813 -00:43:29,228 --> 00:43:34,958 -that all working smoothly. So, I -mean, you were sincerely - -814 -00:43:30,338 --> 00:43:38,617 -rewarded for your efforts. I -think the folks that use the - -815 -00:43:34,958 --> 00:43:42,938 -room really- really value it. -for a lot of members, there - -816 -00:43:39,307 --> 00:43:44,737 -are a couple of our members. -Sometimes it's difficult - -817 -00:43:42,938 --> 00:43:47,978 -for them to get to regular -coffees, I've had one or two - -818 -00:43:44,737 --> 00:43:50,047 -folks say, but I know I can -always jump in coworking - -819 -00:43:47,978 --> 00:43:52,327 -and there's usually someone -there and sometimes that's my - -820 -00:43:50,047 --> 00:43:54,188 -Virtual Coffee for the week. so -that's really good. - -821 -00:43:55,012 --> 00:44:00,472 -And, you know, it's- it's just -become, it's just another - -822 -00:44:00,563 --> 00:44:03,472 -space, another platform for VC -members to interact with each - -823 -00:44:03,472 --> 00:44:08,512 -other and provide support. -sometimes people will - -824 -00:44:06,052 --> 00:44:10,643 -have questions and helping -pairing, and they're like, - -825 -00:44:08,512 --> 00:44:12,773 -Hey, you know, if no one's in -the co-working room, jump in. - -826 -00:44:12,773 --> 00:44:14,962 -Or, and then the coworking room -becomes like a little watch and - -827 -00:44:14,962 --> 00:44:17,151 -learn - -828 -00:44:17,152 --> 00:44:20,782 -session where, know, everyone's -just like, trying to help the - -829 -00:44:20,782 --> 00:44:22,882 -person do the problem, but also -watching people kind of - -830 -00:44:22,882 --> 00:44:24,884 -pair up and go through -solutions. So it's, it's got a - -831 -00:44:24,884 --> 00:44:26,886 -lot of - -832 -00:44:24,427 --> 00:44:31,297 -purposes, but it's- it's -definitely I know the members - -833 -00:44:26,887 --> 00:44:36,077 -really appreciate really enjoy. -shout out also to Meg, who - -834 -00:44:31,898 --> 00:44:42,637 -I think also there's a lot of -work in there and, Yeah, - -835 -00:44:36,728 --> 00:44:45,108 -it's, I think it quickly rose up -the ranks to become like - -836 -00:44:42,637 --> 00:44:49,838 -one of the coolest parts of VC -who had coworking helping - -837 -00:44:45,108 --> 00:44:49,838 -pairing just like a, this is. - -838 -00:44:51,253 --> 00:44:55,092 -Dan: Yeah, the and I feel like -they kind of are almost, - -839 -00:44:55,782 --> 00:44:57,282 -you had to work together, right? -Help and pairing. - -840 -00:44:57,742 --> 00:45:00,402 -have a help and pairing channel, -you know, Just - -841 -00:45:00,402 --> 00:45:02,922 -very often, see somebody asks a -question and somebody - -842 -00:45:02,922 --> 00:45:05,563 -answered, Hey, I have a minute. -Let's jump into - -843 -00:45:03,882 --> 00:45:07,333 -the coworking room. which is -amazing. - -844 -00:45:07,873 --> 00:45:13,092 -I, we were going to add our, -like the, to our newsletter. - -845 -00:45:13,092 --> 00:45:16,422 -We're going to add the longest -meeting of the month or longest, - -846 -00:45:16,422 --> 00:45:18,402 -and not meeting with the -longest, coworking session. - -847 -00:45:18,402 --> 00:45:21,313 -Right. So can last, you know, -somebody starts a session. - -848 -00:45:21,313 --> 00:45:23,143 -The session lasts until the last -person leaves. Right. - -849 -00:45:23,143 --> 00:45:24,913 -So it doesn't necessarily have -to be that person - -850 -00:45:24,913 --> 00:45:27,103 -staying on the whole time. -Right. And so. - -851 -00:45:27,898 --> 00:45:30,628 -Subscribe to your newsletter if -you want to see it the - -852 -00:45:30,688 --> 00:45:34,197 -longest in August, but I, that -made me want to look it up what - -853 -00:45:34,197 --> 00:45:40,677 -the historical longest one. And -so it was, 789 - -854 -00:45:35,157 --> 00:45:41,967 -minutes, on- on the, at the, end -of July- July 24th. - -855 -00:45:42,447 --> 00:45:46,728 -So that, you know, I mean, -that's, whatever - -856 -00:45:46,728 --> 00:45:47,628 -it is, I did this - -857 -00:45:47,777 --> 00:45:49,307 -Kirk: No, don't convert it to -hours. - -858 -00:45:49,338 --> 00:45:52,338 -It doesn't sound as cool. Okay. -So it sounds pretty cool. - -859 -00:45:52,422 --> 00:45:57,132 -Dan: 13 hours over 13 hours, -yeah- Yeah. That's, it's, - -860 -00:45:54,793 --> 00:46:00,163 -it, it's pretty cool. And it's -just cool that - -861 -00:45:57,132 --> 00:46:01,753 -somebody, like some of our -friends were just - -862 -00:46:00,163 --> 00:46:02,382 -hanging out for that long. You -know what I mean? - -863 -00:46:02,532 --> 00:46:06,432 -I love it. We, we have, I don't -know, - -864 -00:46:03,643 --> 00:46:07,693 -almost 350 sessions have -happened since we started it. - -865 -00:46:09,268 --> 00:46:11,097 -February, maybe they're at the -beginning of the year. - -866 -00:46:11,128 --> 00:46:16,197 -And, it's been cool. So if you -are a member and - -867 -00:46:13,498 --> 00:46:16,947 -haven't checked it out, go ahead -and check it out. - -868 -00:46:17,038 --> 00:46:19,588 -And, if you aren't a Virtual -Coffee member, - -869 -00:46:19,588 --> 00:46:22,438 -this is just one of the many -things you're missing. - -870 -00:46:25,077 --> 00:46:28,000 -The, what else? We got podcast -as - -871 -00:46:28,077 --> 00:46:29,608 -Bekah: We got sponsorships - -872 -00:46:33,288 --> 00:46:34,000 -sponsorships. Bekah, do you -wanna tell - -873 -00:46:34,188 --> 00:46:34,657 -us about sponsorships? - -874 -00:46:34,938 --> 00:46:35,588 -Bekah: Sure. I'll tell you about -sponsorships. - -875 -00:46:36,097 --> 00:46:40,027 -So you can sponsor Virtual -Coffee, help us keep the - -876 -00:46:40,027 --> 00:46:45,668 -coffee brewing, on GitHub. I'll -have a link in the show - -877 -00:46:42,338 --> 00:46:50,128 -notes for that, but if you just -go to GitHub.com/Virtual-Coffee. - -878 -00:46:50,487 --> 00:46:52,887 -There'll be a little heart -sponsor button and there's - -879 -00:46:52,887 --> 00:46:57,268 -different tiers there for -different ways that you can, - -880 -00:46:57,327 --> 00:47:02,697 -Contribute, to Virtual Coffee, -to make sure that we - -881 -00:47:02,697 --> 00:47:06,358 -can cover some of the costs that -are, that, that are - -882 -00:47:06,358 --> 00:47:10,677 -incurred to run Virtual Coffee. -And I think maybe we'll. - -883 -00:47:11,458 --> 00:47:14,697 -Put something up there. We'll be -talking - -884 -00:47:12,898 --> 00:47:16,168 -more about having a -Hacktoberfest sponsor too. - -885 -00:47:16,168 --> 00:47:19,228 -So if you're listening to this -and you know, somebody who'd be - -886 -00:47:19,228 --> 00:47:26,458 -interested and sponsoring all of -our fun, please just reach out - -887 -00:47:26,458 --> 00:47:28,788 -to us at hello@virtualcoffee.io. - -888 -00:47:30,597 --> 00:47:34,137 -Dan: Yep. we have, we have on -our home on a, on like - -889 -00:47:34,137 --> 00:47:38,668 -on our website website. we have -a section - -890 -00:47:36,407 --> 00:47:42,327 -of our sponsors too. So you can -see who has supported - -891 -00:47:38,668 --> 00:47:45,818 -us so far that we have like 26- -26 sponsors, and I want - -892 -00:47:42,327 --> 00:47:47,047 -to say thank you to everybody -who has sponsored us so far. - -893 -00:47:48,128 --> 00:47:51,608 -Well, yeah. So is there anything -else - -894 -00:47:49,027 --> 00:47:52,597 -we wanted to, we wanted to cover -before we wrap up. - -895 -00:47:53,202 --> 00:47:55,393 -Bekah: I just want to say thank -you to everybody that has - -896 -00:47:55,393 --> 00:48:00,672 -donated their time and their -effort, resources to making - -897 -00:48:00,672 --> 00:48:03,733 -sure that everybody has been -supported over the last year - -898 -00:48:03,733 --> 00:48:09,943 -that we've been doing this. You -know, it's still an amazing - -899 -00:48:05,172 --> 00:48:15,583 -thing in my mind that here we -are a year later, closer and - -900 -00:48:09,943 --> 00:48:17,503 -together and grown so much. And -we're able to do this again. - -901 -00:48:17,503 --> 00:48:21,043 -So you for everyone for making -sure that that - -902 -00:48:21,043 --> 00:48:21,702 -got to happen, again. - -903 -00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:30,041 -Kirk: Yeah. I think, I just want -to - -904 -00:48:23,170 --> 00:48:31,905 -say I- I- I still get a lot of. -I don't know. - -905 -00:48:31,905 --> 00:48:34,706 -I still, a lot of people ask me -like, Hey, you know, what - -906 -00:48:34,706 --> 00:48:38,275 -happens when VC gets too big? Or -what are we going to - -907 -00:48:36,326 --> 00:48:41,996 -do when VC gets super big? And -I'm like, well, I mean, - -908 -00:48:38,275 --> 00:48:48,206 -you know, every community has -growing pains, I think what - -909 -00:48:41,996 --> 00:48:53,755 -makes me feel really happy and, -really positive is no, - -910 -00:48:48,266 --> 00:48:58,615 -every- every time I come into -VC, I still see people being - -911 -00:48:53,755 --> 00:49:01,346 -really, warm and caring. I still -see people - -912 -00:48:59,576 --> 00:49:02,246 -supporting each other and the -heavy channel. - -913 -00:49:02,666 --> 00:49:05,275 -I still see people supporting -each other and helping pairing. - -914 -00:49:05,786 --> 00:49:07,976 -And I think the cool thing is -there's a lot of - -915 -00:49:07,976 --> 00:49:11,525 -folks who have been here since -last Hacktoberfest. - -916 -00:49:11,545 --> 00:49:14,306 -You know, you have folks who -have been here for - -917 -00:49:12,146 --> 00:49:17,666 -over a year with us, and that's -amazing, but we also have a lot - -918 -00:49:14,306 --> 00:49:22,045 -of new folks, know, folks with -been here a month, two months, - -919 -00:49:17,666 --> 00:49:26,501 -three months, and they are. -Enjoying it, loving it and - -920 -00:49:23,291 --> 00:49:29,411 -then making new friendships and -supporting other people and - -921 -00:49:26,561 --> 00:49:33,460 -being supportive themselves. And -I don't know that just, - -922 -00:49:30,010 --> 00:49:35,650 -it just always makes me- me feel -really good every time - -923 -00:49:33,460 --> 00:49:39,380 -I see someone who hasn't been -here that long, but when we - -924 -00:49:35,650 --> 00:49:41,920 -do our Friday gratitude or -Wednesday shout outs, like, - -925 -00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:45,460 -Hey, I really liked this space. -And I really liked the people - -926 -00:49:41,951 --> 00:49:47,530 -here and I want to help out. -And, that makes me - -927 -00:49:45,641 --> 00:49:48,400 -think that, you know, they're -still doing that. - -928 -00:49:49,447 --> 00:49:52,777 -Dan: Yeah, I would, I- I would -just echo both - -929 -00:49:53,137 --> 00:49:58,358 -what you've all said. You know, -this community is - -930 -00:49:54,188 --> 00:49:59,257 -amazing and I'm very glad and -proud to be part of it. - -931 -00:49:59,858 --> 00:50:03,547 -And the members. What makes you -know, - -932 -00:50:01,628 --> 00:50:05,047 -what make it amazing. And, I -don't know. - -933 -00:50:05,047 --> 00:50:05,978 -I'm looking forward to another -year. - -934 -00:50:05,978 --> 00:50:08,947 -I- I am very, very pumped about -Hacktoberfest this year. - -935 -00:50:09,007 --> 00:50:11,197 -I'm very pumped about the things -we have going on. - -936 -00:50:11,588 --> 00:50:16,268 -The people that are going to be -involved I've yet - -937 -00:50:16,268 --> 00:50:19,478 -to brew up exactly how I'm going -to, you know, try to. - -938 -00:50:20,273 --> 00:50:23,842 -Murder myself at the end of the -month, trying to redo - -939 -00:50:23,842 --> 00:50:25,132 -something, but I'm sure I'll -think of something. - -940 -00:50:25,463 --> 00:50:27,532 -And I'm pumped about that too -honestly, because there - -941 -00:50:27,532 --> 00:50:32,092 -was a lot of fun last year. so -yeah, I guess, I - -942 -00:50:28,913 --> 00:50:35,123 -guess that's pretty much it. if -you want to keep up to - -943 -00:50:32,483 --> 00:50:38,273 -date with us, you know, -subscribe to our newsletter, - -944 -00:50:35,123 --> 00:50:42,563 -follow us on Twitter at, Virtual -Coffee - -945 -00:50:38,393 --> 00:50:42,563 -IO, follow us somewhere. - -946 -00:50:43,132 --> 00:50:45,322 -Bekah: To check out our site. -We've got lots of - -947 -00:50:43,882 --> 00:50:45,322 -good stuff on there. - -948 -00:50:45,713 --> 00:50:46,972 -Dan: Yeah, we have a dope -website. - -949 -00:50:47,003 --> 00:50:52,253 -It's at Virtual Coffee.io. -subscribe on your podcast. - -950 -00:50:52,552 --> 00:50:56,302 -Software of choice. If you have -not done that yet, - -951 -00:50:53,813 --> 00:50:58,132 -what are you supposed to say? -Hit that something about, - -952 -00:50:58,182 --> 00:51:01,592 -Bekah: hit like, no, as for -YouTube, you can - -953 -00:51:01,612 --> 00:51:01,913 -Dan: oh - -954 -00:51:02,012 --> 00:51:03,753 -Bekah: our YouTube channel too. -Cause we've got one - -955 -00:51:03,853 --> 00:51:05,382 -Dan: Oh yeah. We have a YouTube -channel. - -956 -00:51:05,742 --> 00:51:07,932 -We have a YouTube channel. So -subscribe to that. - -957 -00:51:08,282 --> 00:51:09,932 -Bekah: on the podcast and leave -us a message. - -958 -00:51:09,932 --> 00:51:13,532 -It's always so great. When we -get messages or - -959 -00:51:10,833 --> 00:51:14,282 -reviews about our podcasts, when -they're nice. - -960 -00:51:14,282 --> 00:51:17,432 -We never got a mean one. So -don't leave a mean - -961 -00:51:15,213 --> 00:51:17,432 -one, but ones are good. - -962 -00:51:18,023 --> 00:51:21,862 -Dan: Nice. All five stars only -as Jason Concepcion would - -963 -00:51:21,862 --> 00:51:25,972 -say on his podcast. yes, we -would - -964 -00:51:23,123 --> 00:51:29,963 -love to hear from you. if you -have suggestions or, - -965 -00:51:26,032 --> 00:51:31,612 -Questions, comments hit us up on -Twitter, Slack, anything. - -966 -00:51:31,672 --> 00:51:35,873 -And yeah, I guess we will see -you next season. - -967 -00:51:36,233 --> 00:51:38,452 -Next season will drop, beginning -of October. - -968 -00:51:38,452 --> 00:51:40,313 -So we're going to take you to -take a month off podcast - -969 -00:51:40,313 --> 00:51:44,378 -and we will be back a season -four in October. - -970 -00:51:44,597 --> 00:51:46,217 -Kirk: Bye for me, Definitely -Bekah. - -971 -00:51:48,471 --> 00:51:49,280 -Dan: All right. Bye everyone. - -972 -00:51:49,420 --> 00:51:55,878 -Bekah: Bye. Thank you for -listening - -973 -00:51:53,929 --> 00:51:57,349 -to this episode of the Virtual -Coffee Podcast. - -974 -00:51:57,619 --> 00:52:00,929 -This episode was produced by Dan -Ott and Bekah Hawrot - -975 -00:52:00,949 --> 00:52:06,139 -Weigel and edited by Dan Ott. If -you have questions or - -976 -00:52:03,768 --> 00:52:10,568 -comments, you can hit us up on -Twitter at VirtualCoffeeIO, - -977 -00:52:06,139 --> 00:52:12,679 -or you can email us at -podcast@virtualcoffee.io. - -978 -00:52:13,398 --> 00:52:15,978 -You can find the show notes, -plus you can sign up for our - -979 -00:52:15,978 --> 00:52:19,068 -newsletter to find out what -Virtual Coffee's been up to on - -980 -00:52:19,068 --> 00:52:22,059 -our website at virtualcoffee.io. - -981 -00:52:22,773 --> 00:52:25,023 -Dan: Please subscribe to our -podcast and be sure - -982 -00:52:25,023 --> 00:52:27,454 -to leave us a review. Thanks for -listening. - -983 -00:52:27,454 --> 00:52:28,684 -And we'll see you next week. \ No newline at end of file