diff --git a/sig-economics/meetings/032-2025-10-22.md b/sig-economics/meetings/032-2025-10-22.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fb99da30 --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-economics/meetings/032-2025-10-22.md @@ -0,0 +1,689 @@ +# Akash Network - Economics Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #32 + +## Agenda +- Review of Cosmos SDK 53 network upgrade and its economic unlocks. +- Discussion on Burn-Mint Equilibrium (BME) and long-term plan for chain migration. +- Network spend, validator efficiency, and emission allocation. +- Updates on Tenant Incentive Program (TIPS) and pending proposals. +- Transition of finance operations from Scott Hewittson to Isaac Grooms. +- Open floor on community proposals, validator activity, and developer experience. + +## Meeting Details +- Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2025 +- Time: 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- Recording: Coming Soon +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Participants +- Cheng Wang +- Tyler Wright +- Isaac Grooms +- Andrew Gnatyuk +- Germany Beal +- Rodri R +- Crypto Bushi +- Nick Wagner +- Dimokus +- B S +- William Nilsson + +--- + +## Meeting Notes + +- **Opening Context** + - Cheng Wang opened the call and noted the intense internal focus on the SDK 53 upgrade, describing it as “all hands on deck.” + - Germany Beal shared updates about his team’s active proposal and community outreach with validators. + - Andrew Gnatyuk lightened the mood by showing a giant Akash mural gifted by a community artist. + +--- + +- **SDK 53 Upgrade Overview** + - Tyler Wright confirmed the planned upgrade date of October 28, 2025, and reminded validators and providers not to modify infrastructure during the upgrade window. + - The upgrade will resolve AEP-876 and enable features supporting TIPS and future programs like BME. + - Once complete, validators and providers will receive coordinated announcements through Console and other official channels. + +--- + +- **Operations Transition** + - Tyler introduced Isaac Grooms as the new operations lead following the transition from Scott Hewittson, ensuring continuity for DCF, TIPS, and SIG Economics activities. + +--- + +- **Economic Metrics and Adoption Focus** + - Germany asked what economic goals projects should align with when building on Akash. + - Cheng explained that the core metric is network spend, since it represents actual usage and demand on the network. + - He added that Overclock Labs has hired its first cloud salesperson to drive adoption among startups, research institutions, and enterprise users. + - Germany outlined how his framework enables multiple container deployments and generates consistent network spend. + - Cheng encouraged teams building abstraction layers that make Akash easier to use, calling them essential to long-term growth. + +--- + +- **Milestone 2 and Technical Collaboration** + - Germany described work toward Milestone 2, focused on multi-key management and escrow automation for seamless provider payments. + - He asked for deeper coordination with the core team once SDK 53 is stable. + - Cheng agreed, noting that post-upgrade bandwidth will allow more focused collaboration. + +--- + +- **Cheng Wang’s Economic and Migration Discussion** + - Cheng outlined why Akash may eventually migrate away from its own layer-1 chain and how emissions could be used more efficiently: + - Around half of daily AKT emissions currently go toward validators and stakers purely for chain security. + - The remaining emissions fund the community pool, which supports development programs, incentives, and grants. + - Redirecting emissions from security to usage incentives could make Akash more sustainable and growth-oriented. + - He described a future model where: + - Chain security is handled by a host chain or shared security network. + - Akash’s resources and engineers focus entirely on its application layer and marketplace. + - Stakers delegate directly to providers and earn yield based on real compute activity. + - Revenue from workloads and fees cycles back into the community pool to create a more direct economic loop. + - Cheng explained that maintaining an independent chain consumes massive engineering time. + - The SDK 47 to SDK 53 upgrade alone took nearly two years and slowed feature releases. + - Engineers who could be building user-facing products are instead maintaining infrastructure. + - Migrating to a host chain could multiply productivity and allow faster rollout of features like smart contracts and developer tools. + - He emphasized that migration would take months of coordinated effort, governance, and testing, adding that “if you try to do two things at once – be a chain and a cloud – you’ll do both half as well.” + +--- + +- **Community Feedback and Validator Concerns** + - Rodri raised reliability concerns around chains like Solana and Base, suggesting Cosmos shared security or Ethereum as safer alternatives. + - Cheng agreed that every host chain has trade-offs but stressed Akash’s resilience, noting the compute layer can continue running even if the chain goes offline temporarily. + +--- + +- **Developer and Fee Structure Questions** + - Andrew asked how gas fees would work post-migration. + - Cheng suggested pre-seeding existing wallets with small amounts of the host chain’s gas token and said paying gas in AKT might be possible depending on implementation. + - Rodri proposed gasless or batched transactions using NFTs or ERC-1155 vouchers to reduce costs. + - Germany highlighted the importance of developer experience, pointing out that the limited availability of Rust developers could hinder adoption if Akash moved to Solana. + - Cheng agreed that balancing technical power with developer accessibility will be key. + +--- + +- **Validator Engagement and Governance** + - Rodri mentioned that many validators are struggling to break even and that governance participation is inconsistent. + - Cheng said validator behavior should be reviewed after the upgrade and suggested possible changes to the active set or delegation model. + - Tyler added that some validators operate Akash nodes as generic business infrastructure, which sometimes results in low engagement and slow upgrade response times. + - Both agreed the goal should be to align incentives with network reliability and contribution. + +--- + +- **Migration Experience and Developer Ecosystem** + - Germany offered to advise the core team based on his experience with migrations at Pocket Network and Mirror Circle. + - He recommended exploring EVM-compatible chains with strong developer communities and potential foundation support. + - Cheng appreciated the input and agreed that joining a larger ecosystem could attract talent and increase Akash’s visibility. + +--- + +- **Closing and Next Steps** + - Tyler and Cheng agreed to open a GitHub Discussion and form a Migration Working Group to coordinate ideas and research. + - Participants were reminded to vote on active proposals and follow upgrade communications. + - The next SIG Economics meeting will resume in early November 2025 after the SDK 53 upgrade. + - Cheng closed by saying this was one of the most productive and forward-looking discussions the group has held. + +--- + +## Action Items +- All participants: Monitor SDK 53 upgrade updates, avoid provider operations during migration, and vote on active proposals. +- Isaac Grooms: Continue transition of operations and oversee DCF and TIPS programs. +- Cheng Wang and Tyler Wright: Create GitHub Discussion and form the Migration Working Group. +- Germany Beal: Provide migration insights and continue building the key management and escrow system. +- Community members: Offer feedback on BME discussions and validator accountability after the upgrade. + +## **Transcript** + +Cheng Wang: Hey everybody. + +Isaac Grooms: Hey, how's it going? + +Cheng Wang: Is it going How are you? + +Isaac Grooms: Good, sir. + +Cheng Wang: Glad to hear it. + +Tyler Wright: Having some network connectivity is folks can hear me. All right. + +Germany Beal: AWS bro. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. T your signal's a little bit Quite choppy, Am I coming through? Okay. All right. + +Germany Beal: Yep. You're coming through good, bro. It's just AWS, been kicking everyone's ass as of late. + +Cheng Wang: All right, I'll Give it a shot. How's everyone doing? + +Germany Beal: Doing good. Are + +Cheng Wang: Doing all right. Can always complain, but I guess just sometimes choose not to. Thanks for asking. + +Germany Beal: How's your week going thus far? + +Cheng Wang: + +Cheng Wang: Busy. A lot of stuff. I mean, week after week it just obviously I mean there's a ton going on with the CK53 upgrade that we're going to be undertaking soon enough. that's been all hands- on deck for quite a while. and just a lot of internal work, going on. So, it's been busy busy but good. + +Germany Beal: Yeah, it's been going good, It's been stressful. + +Cheng Wang: How about your week? + +Germany Beal: One of our proposals are up right now, so it's looking real tight, but we're still optimistic and been working with a lot of providers and voters to try to help push it Got a lot of good feedback and also some comments as well. So, yeah, I mean, we'll know in 24 hours how it goes,… + +Germany Beal: but very optimistic and looking forward to the future. + +Rodri R: And then we're going to have a busy call today,… + +Cheng Wang: Very nice. + +Rodri R: too, cuz Andrew's on the call. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. Hey guys. No. Yeah. No. No. I'm going to chill. I'm just listening more. + +Cheng Wang: Always looking forward to it. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: But I have something to show you. + +Cheng Wang: I've heard that before. Don't lie to us. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: I don't know if I can just give me a second. I don't know if you will be able to see this but probably you will. I was sending the picture of it to the insiders channel, but you should probably see this. + +Germany Beal: Who has a Xerox machine in the back? + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Check check. + +Cheng Wang: What is this? + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Wait. Check this out. Right. Can you see this? This is a giant** Aash painting,… + +Cheng Wang: My god. It's like a giant aashi ural. Holy cow. + + +### 00:05:00 + +Andrew Gnatyuk: + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. Yeah. It's super huge. I will send you the cool photo later on. + +Cheng Wang: Holy cow. That is epic. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: It's finished. Yeah. I'm going to put it on the wall in my office today. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: It's super big. + +Cheng Wang: I did not get a sense of scale… + +Cheng Wang: until you stood in front of it. I'm like, I don't understand what's happening. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: It's like two meters I guess in wise. So yeah. Yeah. one of my friends made it. So yes. + +Cheng Wang: Holy cow. + +Germany Beal: We in + +Cheng Wang: Amazing. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: No,… + +Cheng Wang: Who was it? + +Andrew Gnatyuk: no, this is the guy. + +Cheng Wang: Who was it? + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. Yeah,… + +Cheng Wang: We should celebrate this guy or… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: he's one of my friends. I gave him and… + +Cheng Wang: Amazing. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: a cash hoodie and a t-shirt and he was super thankful and say hey I'll make you a picture like a painting. I wasn't expecting it will be like that huge but I'm like okay yeah let's do that why not. + +Germany Beal: We should do a gag proposal for a cease and… + +Cheng Wang: Hell yeah. + +Germany Beal: desist and… + +Cheng Wang: Amazing. Let's see. + +Germany Beal: just see what happens. + +Tyler Wright: Can you hear me any better now? + +Cheng Wang: Where is this? Hi. Were you able to get back on? + +Tyler Wright: Six. Okay. My apologies. + +Cheng Wang: Trying to … + +Tyler Wright: I know that we've already been recording. + +Cheng Wang: much better. Here we go. + +Tyler Wright: This is again welcome everybody to SIG economics monthly meeting. It is October 23rd or excuse me 22nd. my internet has been running perfectly all day until just now for whatever reason. So apologies for that. as we've talked about in SIG chain, and a number of other meetings this week, really the priority and the focus for a number of people across the community and the core engineer or core team has been around the network upgrade, which is planned for next Tuesday, October 28th, 2025. right now, again, it's 13:23 UTC time. + +Tyler Wright: so again with that in mind as we get closer to the network upgrade it's going to be important for everybody to stay close to channels where they can get announcements so they can see all things related to a more accurate time for the network upgrade because again the current time is just approximate relative to the block height. and then beyond that again just next steps for validators for providers and beyond as we talked about in sick providers earlier today and this is just a message just across the community. So, anybody here that maybe sees anything across the community as we get closer to network upgrade, all class providers are to wait until after the network upgrade happens and wait for announcements from members of the core team before doing anything. + +Tyler Wright: if you touch your provider during the network upgrade, especially those that have JWT implemented, it will cause the provider to have issues, if you try to again spin up pads or do anything during the network upgrade time. So again, there will be announcements across console, the website, and other channels when the network upgrade is approaching and when it's happening and when it's completed. but please look out for a number of announcements. + +Tyler Wright: why it affects sig economics so much is and I'll have Isaac drop some links in right now but there is 876 which will be solved with this network upgrade which will unlock a number of the specific programs inside the tips initiative which again the tenant incentive program with the pass on chain some time ago and we talked about during sick economics so 876 six as well as a number of other apes will be solved by this network upgrade and then allow console and some other teams to better implement some of the programs inside tips. you can also track a number of items that will be unlocked post network upgrade. I'm not sure if Tang wanted to talk about it today but I know Greg put in discussion about a month ago around burn mint equilibrium. + +Tyler Wright: and again this is something that is the network upgrade to Cosmos SDK 53 is an initial step to unlock again some following steps. There's an ape there for folks that want to get involved on a discussion as well that Isaac has put in the chat. So again the focus for a lot of the community and the core team has been around the network upgrade coming up soon but it does affect a number of efforts that I get talked about a great deal during SIG economics and again should unlock some of the program that the tips proposal should make it easier for again folks to interact and use in Kash + + +### 00:10:00 + +Tyler Wright: work advised to continue to drive up demand. I just wanted to see if there's anything that anybody had as items that they wanted to discuss during this sick economics call. I think one item before feel free to drop any items in chat. One item that I just wanted to quickly touch on. I know since our last meeting Scott Huittson who was working in a finance operations capacity for overclock labs since moved on. he has been instrumental in again the DCF program which recently passed on chain. + +Tyler Wright: but Isaac here I think this is maybe his second call he will have a more hands-on role in the sik economics as we continue to move forward. He is somebody a lot of the services that the core team administers on behalf of the Akash community. again this good hands and it's a smooth transition from Scott Huittson and to Isaac under Chang's toutelage. So again, a lot of the programs that Scott was supporting are not going to skip a beat because now Isaac is a part of the Overclock Labs team again to help administer a lot of those efforts sometimes on behalf of the community and on behalf of Overclock Labs as well. So I just want to on behalf of Overclock Labs is share that with the community that again nothing should be lost in the transition from Scott to Isaac on many of those fronts. + +Tyler Wright: Are there any specific items that anybody wants to touch on as it pertains to economics on the Akash network? + +Cheng Wang: Next. + +Tyler Wright: I know we may talk about it steering committee. I know there was a lot of active discussion during a SIG community call around some recent exploration and posts that Greg had made. + +Tyler Wright: But again, I think the big action items as we continue to push forward are around this network upgrade happening next week and then some of the unlocks that will be made on the post network upgrade starting with the tips program and then some additional items that are a warrant discussion but were currently blocked by the network upgrades. Anyone have any questions,… + +Tyler Wright: comments, concerns? There he is. I see him on mute. Go ahead, Chang. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. + +Cheng Wang: then I was going to wait for you to finish but we can dive into I think one of the big unlocks the things that Greg has posted about with big on the vision and light on the details thus far but has been around BME Bman equilibrium as well as the discussion of migrating aos is over right so I think those are some big ticket items and would love to open up the floor and answer any questions as best we possibly can. but before that, please Tyler, finish up anything on the agenda. + +Tyler Wright: that was the agenda. Again, we talked about just a little bit of the tips program and a lot of the discussion last month was about DCF which has passed on chain. so I really wanted to open it up as it pertains to BME. I know again there is an active ape and discussion around that that Isaac has dropped in the chat. I would ask like I do with everything as it pertains to items that are going to go on chain for vote or onchain for vote that people put their feedback in a public channel. I know there's a number of other people that may have similar ideas or you putting your items in a comments in a public channel can unlock other ideas and it just spurs great conversation. + +Tyler Wright: So again at least with the BME proposal again Greg has put a lot of time and effort into at least mapping out his ideas and putting them out for community feedback. so really asking especially for the sick economics group who focuses a lot of on these concepts and themes to really take the time to look at his discussion and give pe feedback in a public channel. it could really again continue to spur conversation amongst other people in the community. but Chang again feel free to take the conversation however I talked about BME the tips program and… + +Tyler Wright: just open it up to the floor. So, if there's anything specific that you want to make sure we talk about, feel free. + +Cheng Wang: for sure. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, I think Germany had a question in the messages here. talk about community initiatives and get clarity on what the protocol is looking for in terms of economic contribution from projects. German, do you want to kind of elaborate a little bit and we'll hit this topic first because I know I kind of understand what you're saying, but I would love to hear flushing this out a little bit for us. + + +### 00:15:00 + +Germany Beal: Yeah, for sure. So, there's a couple projects outside of our own that are building on top of AOS. And as we just did a proposal, I think it's 307 that's up. We were talking to some of the providers as well as validators and even just random community members get their thoughts and one of the things that came up was driving traction. So as a project that's trying to build on top of Hakos as well as do protocol upgrade specifically to the O module on the protocol is there a metric that the protocol wish to see and have because I know right now last time we checked my bringing in 9,000 a day are you trying to see more projects that brings in this is 20,000 is it like a econ + +Germany Beal: economic goal that we should be aware of that we can help the Kosh ecosystem and protocol get + +Cheng Wang: Great question. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, I can speak on behalf of the AOS network core team, I think overall what I would like to see and I think what the Kosh core team wants to see and I think overall the protocol northstar probably is going to just be and network spend basically is a shorthand for adoption right and so I think that that's the key item there and how do you kind of get to network spend right so I kind of pull back that a little bit to say okay how do you drive network spend you essentially need to get more people using a Kosh network, And deploying on a Kosh network. so there's one side where you want to get in order to get more workloads deployed, you have to go out and outreach to different companies, whether they're startups, labs, universities, whatever it is to get them to try, right? Essentially, there's kind of business development aspect to it. + +Cheng Wang: And that type of hightouch really white glove type of relationship building is what the overclock labs core team has been trying to do and trying to ramp up. recently we just brought on about three weeks ago the core team's first bonafide be the cloud salesperson in order to do just that and do it in a concerted way do it professionally and do it at scale right historically we've been doing it kind of peace meal here in the core team where it was a lot of hands together I would do a little bit of work Greg would do a bunch of work and Neil would do some work Tyler would do a lot of work around all + +Cheng Wang: So it was kind of like business development by community and that could only get us so far and at this point in time in the maturation of the AOS network protocol and the product itself it is at a scale and at a strength where it can viably become the alternative for a lot of folks and that's been demonstrated time So at this point in time to answer your question directly it's obviously anything that generates network spend right and that can just be native deployments that could be using abstractions through an API layer right and also for example I think what you guys are proposing is a kind of another agentic level application right am I Germany there where + +Germany Beal: Yeah, that's a foundation,… + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. Mhm. + +Germany Beal: but when we're done with actual framework, it'll be for applications as a whole. And just to quickly touch up on the point that you made. So, right now, we already have some people building on top of our framework. we have two projects and it's kind of thick. Just for the base, there was each deployment using the framework needs three containers. And you don't even know that was really using a cache unless you do. So you can see that we're using the doc on the back end but I mean we just look at it as this is how you get a documents what can you do that's already integrable where it's self-healing standard with kubernetes and I think we did the estimates it was like 250 per deployment so I mean you can multiply that so already I mean that's bringing in a couple thousand dollars in it's still small of course… + +Cheng Wang: Absolutely. Yeah,… + +Germany Beal: because we're still scrappy startup and we're also in the MVP phase but little things like that we think that can really + +Germany Beal: help build adoption, especially if more and more people are building on top. + +Cheng Wang: and I think it's just that if there is an abstraction layer that you're building on top of AOS that allows people to deploy more easily for the use cases you're solving for 100%. has Germany participated in any of the SIGs? is there we should think about probably talking about this in a more concerted fashion,… + + +### 00:20:00 + +Cheng Wang: right? Okay. + +Tyler Wright: They've talked about this in the steering committee,… + +Tyler Wright: the community call, SIG client. So, they've actually been participating in the open framework for at least two months as a group and have just been sharing their thoughts. They put one proposal on chain. did not pass and this is their second revised proposal that they've been putting on chain. They've just been trying to again get feedback from validators on an individual basis and… + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. Yep. + +Tyler Wright: then get into and feedback from just anybody they can as the vote pushes on. + +Cheng Wang: So, I think if there's any stalling if anything kind of stalls slows down please please do let me know and I'll try to push things forward internally on the core team side of things. and Germany time and for the public record here. this is as what you're doing is really cool and I think it's definitely behooves us continue to push that along because a channel for getting more users on and making a cause more usable and powerful it's no-brainer to me. Yeah. + +Tyler Wright: Jeff. + +Germany Beal: Yeah. + +Germany Beal: And one of the main things that we're looking forward to is milestone 2 because we are building a new key management solution which is I mean in crypto we need it for no brother whether your EBM on one of the beauty of it is we're already halfway there and when we start to do these deployments we're all right we're going to work with the team on it to where is the official deployment for key management solutions. So when people are creating these different nodes that can do these multi key chairs I mean I think that's really cool and I know we want to keep working with the team and we are going to do a proposal for a protocol upgrade as well because that's how this can all click because we want to rewrite how we do escrow so all the nodes can just not only do a multi-chain u bridging and transactions but it can pay off its own provider automatically + +Germany Beal: without any human intervention cuz the MVP we have going has been up I think for five six days now and we deployed twice which is pretty cool so we don't really have to worry about it so we're really excited for it and… + +Germany Beal: especially for milestone 2 because that's actually going to be where the real innovation happens so I mean we ideally like to be working really closely with the team to make it happen but first we need funds to get there milestone too but right now I'm super hyped for + +Cheng Wang: Mhm. Gotcha. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, totally hear you there. yeah. I mean, this dubtales into a couple things, right? because I think number one as far as proposals go we have the SDK 53 so the big chain upgrade is incoming so majority of the core team's attention is focused on getting that done and secondly is once that goes on chain and then once that literally goes live there's probably going to be a couple weeks of just answering questions and bugs what not that might emerge and have to address those very rapidly + +Cheng Wang: So, obviously I think the timing is just not optimal in this particular case cuz this upgrade has been a long time coming and we want to make sure that all hands are on deck and as a result of this upgrade, a lot of the community's technical resources and attention is going to be focused on making this smooth of a transition as possible. That unlocks a bunch of things that Tyler has also alluded to. So I think it's really just that and I think once the SDK 53 passes we give it a little bit of time to kind of fully flush out and meter out we'll be able to really address what you have on deck. I know it's already on chain but for that in subsequent items just I think the team and the community will have a lot more bandwidth to address that and also see Andrew had a lot of questions and BS had emphasized a couple of things as well. + +Cheng Wang: I know that's probably a hot button item that everyone wants to hear some more details on or just kind of voice their thoughts and concern So, I think it's a good time to do that. if that's okay with you, Germany, I want to hit this real quick. it's probably not real quick. That's a lie. there's a lot to be said here. validators cost me much math blah blah blah community 50% privilege. So yeah, the economic side of things, So kind of take a couple of steps back or one giant leap back. when you think about AOS networks protocol design, it made a lot of sense when we initially launched five plus years ago at this point in time, to have our own chain and to have the network designed the way it is designed. part of the cost of the it's not simply just securing the chain. + + +### 00:25:00 + +Cheng Wang: the cost of validators, but also the emissions paid to it's not necessarily the security cost per se. it's the security cost and what it's intended to pay for. So what I mean is you're can I go on or you want me to hit this comment first? Okay. Yeah. So I'll just continue. If you think about how the chain is currently secured, all of the 50% right of the network's emissions, so economic value is emitted simply for securing the chain for blockchain purposes, It has no utility outside of that in terms of growing the network or anything like this. it's simply just the economic security of the chain. So when you take that and so 50% of all daily emissions go towards that effort, right? + +Cheng Wang: that's validators as well as stakers. what we want to do and then the other 50% goes to the community pool that then funds all the stuff we're doing to pips to tips to the stuff that Germany has on chain for proposal right all these kind of programs to vanguards to insiders navigators etc that all directly accrete to the economic value of the network and what we're building from tooling and products to incentive programs etc. so that 50% of the budget is a big chunk right 50% of all AOS emissions. So I think that's the thing to really highlight and hone in on. + +Cheng Wang: in a perfect world akos as a chain today ideally we as the core team and ultimately for the protocol shouldn't have to worry about the chain itself right ideally there's another entity that should worry about the chain right so whatever that new home might be a core team won't have to worry about that and therefore the akos community won't have to worry about it. Right? So, right now the brightest mind in the company, Some of the brightest minds in the company and surely our most senior engineer has been working solely on the chain side of things. Now, imagine if his brain power and time and effort were unlocked to develop the application side of things like AOSH network as a use case, right? + +Cheng Wang: how much more benefit that can reap to AOS network, the protocol, the community, how much value that can potentially drive rather than just validator software hey odd Z software hey smart contracts if all of this stuff was managed by separate entity another foundation the homechain wherever that is right the internal resources wouldn't have to be spent on doing those things so the costs are very layered and multifaceted it's not necessarily e economic value that's going that's being paid out per se. That's the challenge. But it's economic value that is paid out for securing the chain and for doing chain stuff that doesn't have to happen. That instead can be piped directly back into the product itself and maybe emissions tied to product utilization. Right? So, this is just Chang the guy kind of talking out loud a little bit here. Right? + +Cheng Wang: This is not a reflection of the internal thoughts from the core team or much less the protocol level. If you can imagine there are other deepen networks out there for example where if we have incentive programs like tips or pips that help subsidize costs for validators and tenants right that comes from the community pool the community pool draws from the emission of the chain right what if part of that in the future draws more substantially from the economic value that is sold by providers right or applications that are built on top of a cost where they charge let's say a subscription fee a part part of that goes to this community pool that then funds further development and other efforts and things like that. And so then you can very directly tie economic benefit and growth on the protocol from a functional perspective, not just the chain side, right? Because the chain side is removed in this future state. + +Cheng Wang: where economic value derived from leases being agreed to and economic value transacted on the network that directly then feeds into a pool that then directly goes into building right so that makes I think the flywheel a lot more efficient you don't have as much leakage out into people who just stake at that point if you're a staker and you want to give economic value or benefit right it's hey let's just say potentially going forward in order for providers to come on the network, they need to have some sort of AKT balance staked in order to become a provider on the network, So, they have an economic imperative in the game. And this is just again Chang the guy ideulating here, and let's just say there's a provider and they want to get something out onto the network and they want to bring their GPUs onto the network, but they don't want to acquire as much AKT or they don't want to acquire AKT at all. They just want to kind of test out the network. + + +### 00:30:00 + +Cheng Wang: Then people with AKT like myself and the group here can kind of stake their balances to this new provider or other providers say we will pledge our AKT to your effort to get your thing online but in exchange part of your revenue generated has to come back to me the staker because I helped you get started right and that's been kind of I think piloted by other deepen networks as well but then you can imagine I'm not staking to a validator in order to secure the chain that's done by + +Cheng Wang: up top the host chain whomever that is right whether that's avac whether that's bass whether that's sui whether that's salano whatever the case may be right then aos can just say akos stakers will only state to providers and providers that they believe in and then part of the economic value will generate it that's generated can come directly to the staker for actually bringing resources directly up onto network right then that's economically meaningful and ties the loop a lot closely together rather than these two disperate things that we have to worry about. So that's one part from a stakers perspective. I covered the other part from a chain protocol perspective in terms of where the emissions go making that more efficient. + +Cheng Wang: and lastly from just an engineering perspective which is what I also covered internal resources not just engineering but all the internal resources that are concerned around the chain side stuff right the last thing I'll say that cannot be underestimated is this particular upgrade as you guys I don't know if you guys remember or know but we tried to do the SDK for upgrade from SDK47 a year and a half almost two years ago maybe and that has been a huge pain in the butt that for 2 years where a substantial amount of the core team has been bogged down in this gigantic effort to get the chain to a new version that is supported because the old version is deprecated and it's not supported. We need to bring in all these new features like BME and smart contracts and all this stuff that'll allow the core protocol to move a lot faster introduce new features and all this stuff. + +Cheng Wang: and the core team in concert with some members in the community who have to take on that entire animal in addition to trying to develop the use cases right trying to get people to use a kosh whereas if you can imagine the entire organization's efforts by organization I mean the kosher core team again and by extension perhaps the community as well can focus 98% of their efforts purely on how do we get this application + +Cheng Wang: as healthy as possible, growing as quickly as possible. all of those things factor into the cost of managing your own layer one because it detracts a huge portion of the community's efforts of the core team's efforts and just the entire systems efforts towards this, and another thing that I can think of DeFi stuff, exchanges, dexes, bridges, etc. all that kind of stuff. if there's anything that needs to be done, it has to come from the community and in concert with the core team in this kind of proposed state that wouldn't need to happen, That just happens at the kind of the protocol level and the application that is a Kosh can stay kind of completely detached from it. + +Cheng Wang: and all the benefits that are created by dexes and whatnot can just permeate through the entire application layer without a cost network actually having to do any additional work towards it. So there are a huge amount of benefits. I covered I think four broad categorical ones here and I'll pause for the time I was ranting with the last 10 minutes but maybe longer but those are the really important areas to keep in mind. and the last thing I'll say is as a team, as all of you guys know, who work on anything yourselves or part of a team small or large, if you focus on one thing, you'll do that one thing way like probably five to 10x better than if you were to do two things, even though you might think you can do two things at the same time. the distraction and lack of focus on that singular item is very very costly as far as opportunity in costs go. + +Cheng Wang: I hope that helps outline things a bit. Not like a lot of a ton of specifics as far as what we're going to do, but those are kind of the outline. Hopefully BS you had a lot of questions around that. I hope that substantially addresses what you posted. Yeah, guys, I know Andrew,… + +Cheng Wang: Rodri, etc. and bunch of you guys. I don't know who went first. + +Tyler Wright: Go ahead. + +Tyler Wright: Go ahead, Roger. + +Rodri R: So thanks Cheng for all that. I agree on all those pro pros or benefits. basically I mean yeah it makes sense to me. I know it's still very early. No one knows what will happen. But my only concern with a cars not having its own L1 is that I don't know we pick Solana which has had some major outages over since it has been launched. So Akash would be down or some people are mentioning Bass in my opinion. Bass has only been around for two years. + + +### 00:35:00 + +Rodri R: Probably not I mean who knows what will happen. Maybe it gets shut down. I mean what was it yesterday? The day before there's been a few project that just shut down. I don't know. + +Cheng Wang: Absolutely. Yeah. + +Rodri R: Yeah that's my only concern. in my opinion we should really consider when the time comes obviously after the upgrade and everything consider maybe going or becoming a Cosmos shared security chain. and if not, I think ETH would be the best option cuz no ETH is we all know that the major on DeFi and all major companies will be building there and everything is there. I don't know and… + +Cheng Wang: No, absolutely. + +Rodri R: and gas fees are a lot lower now. So it is possible in my opinion. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. 100%. I think the challenge here is you're absolutely right there. every one of these decisions, no matter and of course the process is going to be very public. and we as an team will want and solicit feedback from all of you, and I'm so glad that you guys are not shy about giving it. and constructive criticism, like calling these things out are hugely imperative, right? And it please don't leave it unsaid. + +Cheng Wang: I personally am appreciative of it and I'll express it for the core team. We are appreciative of this, you're absolutely right There's no host chain call it the destination chain that is purely going to solve all the problems and have no trade-offs. There always going to be trade-offs. Now having said that that's the reason why we're considering put all options on the table, So is to be Ethereum? Is it going to be like a layer 2? Is it going to be who knows maybe some more concerted thing within Cosmos itself, there are a lot of options on the table and it is us globally as a community. + +Cheng Wang: and for us overclock labs as a core team to really look at all of these decisions all of these proposals essentially right that are coming our way now to really kind of balance check out the pros and cons of this and make sure that we in concert with the community make the best decision right so I think that's the big thing the other item about downtime potentially with the chain going down and AOS network is currently with this particular upgrade in addition to other upgrades have been made on + +Cheng Wang: provider side of things is to ensure we do that the functional level of the protocol itself like the compute layer and everything else with providers as well as with tenants working with providers that there is essentially an offline mode that exists so that if god forbid the chain goes down in our case right the chain will temporarily go down when we do the upgrade it has to right that everything else the application itself continues to function without a hiccup. So that is something that resiliency is critical that we're building in that the core team is working on building in right. + +Cheng Wang: and when we go to the new chain wherever that is this is going to be a huge portion of the consideration as well right to build in that resiliency so that if the chain were to go down for some period of time sure send and receives might be temporarily disabled right but the workloads will still continue to run and clients will continue to be able to see what's happening with their workloads and providers will be able to continue to see what's happening providers. This is one of the things of beauty with AOS. It's like we're one of the rare protocols, right? where the economic exchange or unit of exchange is tied directly to a physical real world good, right? And that physical real world good regardless of the blockchain is what's happening up here on the chain level. It still exists, So the chain goes down, this real world thing doesn't just disappear, that continues to go. + +Cheng Wang: And for Akos, it's about developing that core layer, It's going to open the door in order to make sure that connectivity and resiliency continues to exist and will always exist and be enhanced too. + + +### 00:40:00 + +Tyler Wright: Andrew, I saw you had your hand up and then put it down. + +Tyler Wright: Is there anything you want to specifically say? + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah,… + +Cheng Wang: s Excellent. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: I have a few questions if you may just to ask. So the first one would be probably with moving to another chain. What I'm thinking about right now is that let's say we will have the BME props going to pass and we will have a act token right and all this stuff right now right when we are moving additional to another chain the fees for the chain to move the tokens or to get the tokens are created like we have to pay additional token right this is + +Andrew Gnatyuk: is for this one it's all for sui to sui right so basically if you have the second token you have to also get it in order to pay for the marketplace to get the act token to burn it to get the credits etc etc so there is a problem of the additional fen token that the guys would need to pay for the fees because on our own chain you pay everything with the right So if there is a token moving, you pay fees with the ATP and you're good to go. You have one token for all the stuff you want to do basically and what's going to do behind the bars, right? But on this new chain there they're going to be new tokens and basically if we are paying for example with a master card right or Visa to buy A tokens or to buy ACT tokens the credits, right? + +Andrew Gnatyuk: We still have to give the new deployments and ability to get some stall or… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: sooie for the fees, right? How this is going to be solved. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. Yeah. + +Cheng Wang: So I think I can answer this question where you have and part of it is probably a little bit of guessing from my behalf. I don't have the answer to that fully, but I'll try to bake an answer for what you asked plus what BS asked with does it create engineering work to move hold on to SDK stuff, etc. so any kind of movement to another chain is going to be months and months and months long, right? You're talking about 6 to n months at minimum. So, in that time, the SDK 53 upgrade will unlock a lot of features and functionality that we have been waiting as a core team and I think for a long long time, right? + +Cheng Wang: BME for example, smart contract is another one and a whole host of other things in addition to just literally the functional fact that the SDK version that we're on right now, the support of port has been deprecated. So it's like we need to get on to the next one in order to kind of continue to push and make advancements, And that'll dramatically increase the throughput of the core team's development capabilities specifically. so that's table six. so it's really important to get a caution network to the point where we can iterate quickly while the migration stuff right as it gets metered out and we get all these requests kind of inbound and kind of reviewed is anyway that just needs to happen on the core side in order for the product to continue to be moved forward quickly. + +Cheng Wang: there's been a lot of consternation and rightfully so, concern from the community where development effort is slow, the deadlines get punted and all this kind of stuff. And this will help mitigate a lot of that issue, So, it'll enhance our development speed dramatically as well. At least that's the hope here. so that's number one. Plus, the versioning and all that kind of good stuff. The other item for you Andrew is as far as a secondary token goes with the BME aspect right even if there was no chain migration and we just did BME there will be a AKT is burn to create ACT and then so forth and so on that's where the economics kind of continue to move. + +Cheng Wang: yeah. So, that's how it'll be in the Hosian. I don't know how the gas fees will be done, but yeah, that part I don't exactly know, but I can imagine a world where you essentially grant the ability to pay gas fees via AKT, So, you don't necessarily need sold natively per se. some other chain, right? So if you were to do that, I'm sure in the beginning of the migration we can seed probably every wallet that is active or has some amount of AKT with some dust amount of the host change token in order for gas fees, right? So that every wallet that has been mapped to an existing AOS wallet will have gas fees to start. that's something that I think other protocols have done and something we will probably do as well. just a guess though. + + +### 00:45:00 + +Cheng Wang: That's just to smooth things along and remove barriers and then friction during the transition. Yeah. + +Tyler Wright: Go ahead,… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. … + +Tyler Wright: Roger. Go ahead. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: yeah. Go ahead,… + +Tyler Wright: Sorry, Angie. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Rod. Yes. + +Tyler Wright: Sorry, Angie. I didn't know you had more questions. Feel free to + +Andrew Gnatyuk: The migration is okay. I mean as Germany said the foundation could help you and give some wallets the gas fees etc etc. I'm talking about like that. So basically for example let's choose one blockchain nevertheless just to clear the say basis one right so there is block byblock payment for the providers features right for me getting deployments done on a cash marketplace right so there is block payment and for this block payments I would still als + +Andrew Gnatyuk: also need to have pay the fees for the mother's chain right for example for the salana so after the immigrations there is still be a thing… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: where people will still need to have two tokens or there should be done some automatic swap to soul to pay the piece something like that I don't know just for + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, I don't like for escrow and… + +Cheng Wang: things like that and the block byblock transaction of the escrow settlement, I don't think every stop there needs to be soul. I'll have to be corrected because helium for example, just using soul as an example. is similar, right? So they're bandwidth, right? And so I don't think that is hugely necessary. but I think it comes down to the implementation of itself, but that to me doesn't sound like I'm sure there's a way to solve it. I'm sure other protocols have run into this challenge as well and have solved it. but that's, part of the investigation. I directly do not have the answer. but, I don't think it is essential. I don't think it's like for example. + +Cheng Wang: You need ETH for freaking everything, right? But I don't think that's essentially necessary on soul, per se. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Okay. Okay. Got it. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's got to be a better solution. I can't imagine every fractional thing to require some amount of soul. That would be insane. but also, I don't think so. but I reserve the right to be super wrong as we investigate + +Rodri R: Yeah, I'm all right. I'm + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, we're just talking, it's just a discussion. So there is concerns. Yeah. + +Cheng Wang: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. + +Tyler Wright: Yeah. Yeah. + +Tyler Wright: I just want to reiterate real quick before we hand it over to Rodri that we are very much in the exploratory phase. So again, as we're talking here, as Chang mentioned, it's going to be instrumental for folks to give their feedback, their thoughts, ask a number of questions. we treat an upgrade where we're just going to try to leave no stone unturned and think about every possible situation so that whenever a decision is made,… + +Tyler Wright: the community has made it with again a great deal of information, a great deal of depth, and it's not much appreciate everyone having this conversation. + +Cheng Wang: No, Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. this is something top of mind and these conversations are starting to trickle in and not probably flood in at this point in time and the core team is scheduling time with as many of these as possible to talk to and this is part of definitely a standard set of questions that I would love to add to the board. + +Cheng Wang: + +Tyler Wright: Go ahead, Roger. + +Rodri R: Yeah, so getting back real quick to the gas fees that you all were talking about. I'm not very familiar with Solana, but on Crypto Bushy was saying on the chat, there are some ways to create some smart contracts and get some gas fees or percentage of the fees redirected to the community pool. So that could be a And then there's also a way to mint NFTts. I believe it's an ERC 1155 smart contract which gives kind of a voucher which won't have a gas fee and it will make the transaction in chain at some point and saves tons of gas fees. + + +### 00:50:00 + +Rodri R: So, maybe when this offline mode that you were talking about, we could kind of mint those NFTs, I don't know, when there's 100 leases, mint 100 of those and then all those go in a pack onto the chain and we only pay one gas fee. I mean, we're just giving out ideas right now. like it says this months away from now. But there are definitely some possibilities to do gasless transactions or very low gas fees. + +Rodri R: And then on another note since we'll still be having valid layers and nodes and stuff and I believe it was mentioned in one of this calls before any plans on changing or… + +Rodri R: updating the validator delegation program since AKT price has ded down and I won't many validators are not breaking even and not all validators are arguing We've been voting on chain proposals and participating as much as others and just something + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. Yeah. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, I mean the validator voting thing is definitely something we have to look into. we'll see during this upgrade. I think it'll be a live fire test of how responsive people are, and we'll be able to take stock in that ultimately I think the community can vote with their delegation, and maybe there's momentum for vote to reduce the size and concentrate a little bit. I'm not sure if that's something that's in the wings if somebody wants to put that proposal up. but yeah, I mean you're right that a lot of validators are inactive and it sucks when your activity is directly associated only and only directly associated with the macro environment, And it's like, okay, you're kind of a fair weather believer at this point in time, right? + +Cheng Wang: okay, I believe in gold when gold is doing, 50% yearonear, but outside of that, I don't believe in gold at all. It's fundamentally, you not? so I think that that's a huge consideration to so that side of things is for sure a major consideration. Thank you. yeah, there's that. And then I don't know, I don't have an answer to that, but I'm with you all the way as Chang the guy. and then it's something we need to really look at after this chain upgrade and I think this chain upgrade will really highlight as something this big to see if people are participating. and if people are not participating and we have to them night and… + +Cheng Wang: day to do that then I think it becomes really a parent proof point for the entire community to vote right. Yeah. + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, I mean I just to add Chang and… + +Tyler Wright: I know we only have a couple minutes left and I'll pass it off to Germany, but this is something that's been under evaluation for years at this point. we've had a number of network upgrades where the blockchain has been down longer than it's needed to be because of validator behavior. and so u and it's not all validators. + +Tyler Wright: There's many good actors but unfortunately obviously with the 100 active set we need more good actors than we have and I think things have gotten better and I've mentioned this to people the Cosmos ecosystem does bring in a number of validators that run validators as a business which is sometimes a different incentive than trying to do what's in the best interest of the chain that you are validating on. And so when those goals don't align all the time then again we have a number of folks that don't actively vote or not readily available should be reachable but aren't reachable when they needed. So again this is all goes into this thought process as we continue to explore what could be potentially next. But I just want to throw that out there having been in that for number of years at this point. + +Cheng Wang: absolutely. Yeah. + +Tyler Wright: Go ahead,… + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. Yeah. + +Tyler Wright: Germany. And again, I know we only have a couple minutes + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. Go ahead, Germany. Yeah, you're right. Been talking enough. + +Germany Beal: Yeah, you're fine. So yeah, I would say least in terms I've actually done this a few times because I've been in crypto for almost 10 years. So we have done migration. So if you guys need any help or some insight, I don't mind same with Bushy… + +Germany Beal: if you don't mind helping you guys out and letting you know what is going on what's the process from what we experienced. And what else? The other thing I would say is want to give me… + + +### 00:55:00 + +Cheng Wang: What pains do you have experience with Germany? + +Cheng Wang: Sorry to interrupt you. Curious. You say you've done it. + +Germany Beal: what that Yeah, we've done it. So we did it initially originally back in the early days with pocket network. We did it again with another protocol with mirror circle but let me direct you but I was assisting them with that migration and I advised with another project this four years ago with another one which is escaping me. + +Germany Beal: But I don't mind shooting me a DM and I can give you some referrals so people can validate my experience if you ever want to just so you can have some clarity on that. But I would say main important thing I would like to say is when you guys are looking at other protocols to migrate to is the most important thing to realize… + +Cheng Wang: Mhm. Yeah. + +Germany Beal: because Deborah for a while is you have to consider the DevX experience how Salana is cheap and how it's great again it's really hard to find Rust developers and that's kind of the battle right now which is all right everyone's all familiar with EDM so why make + +Germany Beal: difficult for people to use the product and so that's not how you're going to get adoption. So we all can agree that the goal is to have people build and grow and expand the network and create these network effects and growing revenue. Then all you have to do is just think where do they live? All right they all like most of the EDM ch Yeah. + +Rodri R: All the + +Germany Beal: And most of them are EVM change and you can work with the foundations where even their base because they pretty much grant money. So you can always go to base and they have a foundation where they can actually cover the gas fees for said migration. So yeah there's little tidbits and things you have to consider as well as even for the traders on the deck side because it will actually I won't say mess up the tokconomics a little bit but it will actually skew that. + +Germany Beal: So that's one thing that you should consider when you're making this migration as well. + +Germany Beal: But the most important thing of any take is just what's the word I'm looking for? yeah, just focus more on the DevX experience. And if migration requires everyone to learn Rust and if I'm being honest, you guys going to have a hard time with that at least initially and it's going to be consolidated to only a few devs when you can get more of a network and more adoption. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, absolutely. + +Cheng Wang: No, you're absolutely right. This is another thing where the developer experience, right? Plus, where the heck are there good developers? having said that, I completely agree with you because Tyler knows better than me. And, if there's anything higher than eyeballs, I suppose I'm, hairline deep in freaking trying to find solid Go developers that can contribute to a work core team, And that's been one heck of a doozy of a challenge. We have been here for I think since we started till now Archer's hairline has probably receded about 3 feet and trying to find a quality go developer to join us. and he still has hair left. That says something but yeah it's hard I'm totally with you. I think no matter where you go you're going to have challenges. for example for us a go developer and we had a lot of challenges there. + +Cheng Wang: wherever we move to there will be a hopefully larger home of developers wherever that might be. right because we're Kosh network as the core team member and a part of a core team the decision one of the biggest variables that we are pushing for and should be a huge consideration and this need is how big is the current core protocol that we're going to right how big is the community how healthy how vibrant the amount of projects building on it the combined value of stuff that's been built on top of that core network not just the network + +Cheng Wang: itself, right? so for example, sure there's Ethereum, how much is ETH worth as a global thing, but then how much are all the other things built on top of Or Salon and the similar kind of valuation metric as a heristic of how vibrant and healthy those communities are, so yeah, that's a huge consideration to have. And yeah, and I say that to say if we go to a larger community, a more vibrant one, even if that particular codebase, i.e. Rust is challenging, it's hard to find developers because there's more competition, but by virtue of it having more gravity, hopefully will bring more people and more notoriety and attraction to join and help contribute to a cause from a technical perspective, right? + +Cheng Wang: So, it's kind of like it I don't have the answer… + +Germany Beal: I get it. + + +### 01:00:00 + +Cheng Wang: which one is better, it's that… + +Germany Beal: I get it. + +Cheng Wang: but that's just my two cents. + +Germany Beal: We hit this so many times,… + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. Mhm. + +Germany Beal: especially back in the pocket our weave days of do we grow for adoption or do we keep it niche where the hardcore people and without fail, it always goes down to simplification and what can we do to help the little guy get in because that is what's going to win. So better experiences as well as a healthy ecosystem is that's what's always going to win. Yep. + +Cheng Wang: Absolutely. Better product is going to win no matter what. Yeah. And I think if for nothing else, it's the best analogy. I know we're out of time and sorry to cut you. I'm just super passionate about this, It's we are imagine we're 1999 AWS, And we're trying to build this application. And in addition to that, we also need to build our own payment ramps. We can't use Visa. We can't use Mastercard. We can't use ATMX. We don't have banks and we have to do all that stuff while trying to build this tech. That would be ridiculously crazy, So I think in the moving towards a world where we don't have to worry about this whole other side of stuff globally is just going to be a huge burden off. But again, you trade one thing for another, right? + +Cheng Wang: you trade some sovereignty, you trade some flexibility on the chain side of things. But the good thing is wherever you go to Visav, your own application, smart contracts, whatever it is, you can replicate pretty much everything that exists on a Kosh network today via these mechanisms. that you don't have to give up just because you don't have your own chain anymore. + +Germany Beal: I agree. And again, if you ever wanted to pick my brain or I can make some intros because even on the BC side I'll sometimes advise projects on the same exact topic. So, I can see your friend requests on Discord and… + +Germany Beal: if you ever want to pick my brain or just send some questions over, I'm more than welcome to are happy to help + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. + +Cheng Wang: And if you can in the I think we should probably drop a GitHub discussion just to centralize the stuff and then we can use that as a staging ground for a lot of this discussion so that it's like memorialize in one place, everyone can see it, and follow through because these siloed things get lost ultimately over time. But yeah, I'll talk to you and Tai offline to grab that and get something set up. We should probably have a working group or something, right, just to discuss this might be a good idea. + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, that'd be great. I think a discussion and… + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. Yeah. + +Tyler Wright: a working group would be great. + +Cheng Wang: Hell yeah. + +Tyler Wright: All right, I know we're a little bit over time. so again, I just want to thank everybody for this conversation. we'll focus on the network upgrade over the next couple of days. Again, there's a couple of proposals up on chain for vote. If you haven't voted already, please do so and tell everybody that has the ability to do so to vote. but again there will be a number of action items that will come out of this meeting and we'll make sure we take next steps and again after the class SDK 53 migration to AOS mainet 14 then again we can follow up with tips some other programs that have been kind of on hold while we wait for network upgrade and then continue conversations around exploring where to next if anywhere. + +Tyler Wright: So much appreciate everyone's time the conversation today and we'll take some action items to continue to make this easily and accessible for everybody to continue to do research and continue to make their voice heard. But really love this kind of stuff. and… + +Cheng Wang: This is one of the best we've had. + +Tyler Wright: then again I'm Yeah. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. … + +Tyler Wright: Yeah. Much appreciate everybody. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, we still have to talk sorry T. + +Tyler Wright: Again please + +Andrew Gnatyuk: We still have to talk about the tokconomics and what's going to happen with the token when we are going to migrate… + +Cheng Wang: Mandy. Yes. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: but that's going to be on the next call. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: We still have time I think. So I'm waiting for the next call to talk about that. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, we should Yeah,… + +Tyler Wright: Yes. Yeah. + +Cheng Wang: discussion and… + +Rodri R: Yeah, I've been waiting for them one + +Cheng Wang: working group. We can collate all the stuff and hit the next one hard. Hell yeah. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. + +Tyler Wright: Absolutely. All right. There'll be more to follow up. I'll drop some notes in SIG economics and then again we'll make sure the notes recording and transcripts are made available very soon. and then we should be back to our normal schedule where this is usually the first week of the month. so we should have another meeting sometime soon. But obviously we've just been pushing this out because there's just been a number of folks that have been blocked. thank you very much for the flexibility. but again as Chang mentioned it's been a great conversation. Really enjoyed listening in participating and thank you everybody and number of items that we'll touch on over the next couple weeks. But again focus is SDK 53 migration to Akash mainet 14 Tuesday. And again please vote on the two proposals on chain if you have not voted already. All right,… + + +### 01:05:00 + +Cheng Wang: Indeed. Thank you guys. + +Tyler Wright: y'all. I hope everyone has a great rest of their day. + +Nick Wagner: Thanks a lot, guys. + +Tyler Wright: Thank you again for participation. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: You guys. Bye. + +Tyler Wright: It's been a joy. + +Cheng Wang: Appreciate you all. See you. Bye-bye. + +Rodri R: You guys. + +Germany Beal: Ly every ones. + +Rodri R: Have a nice + +Dimokus: You guys. + + +### Meeting ended after 01:05:14 👋 +